Comic Price Guides, Collector FOMO, and The Future of the Shortboxed App with Gene Miguel (The Short Box Podcast Ep. 397)

 
[00:00:00] Badr: In this episode of the short box,

[00:00:04] Gene: both BJ, my co founder, and I were both lifelong hardcore comic book nerds. And at the same time, we're both technologists. Nothing has really changed or evolved in decades. No, it was frustrating to us as collectors and as technologists. You know, so we spent years complaining about just how hard and difficult it is and how complicated it is to do something as simple as buy and sell a comic book safely and easily.

[00:00:28] Gene: No, it's just, it's insane because it's, it's a massive. Secondary market, you know, we're talking billions of dollars changing hands every single year on what's essentially dinosaur technology And we really realized nothing would ever change unless we did ourselves, you know, so that's that's pretty much what we did

[00:00:50] intro music plays:

[00:01:10] Badr: Yoo, Short Box Nation. Welcome back to the podcast. And if you're new to the show, welcome to the party. This is the short box podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comics and the pop culture inspired by them. My name is Badr Milligan and this is episode three 97.

[00:01:27] Badr: Today, me, you, and the rest of the short box nation will hear from Gene Miguel, the head honcho of

[00:01:34] Gene: short box. Anybody who is into comics knows that name. Gene is

[00:01:38] Badr: the CEO and co founder of short boxed. One of the fastest growing marketplace apps to buy and sell comics. Not only is there a thriving community of collectors to be found on there, but some of the top dealers in the industry swear by it.

[00:01:51] Badr: And for good reason. And we here at the short box. Like what short boxed is doing for the comic look it's gonna be a tongue twister kind of day All right, so bear with me y'all they're friends of the shows what you need to know and many of you will recall the conversation We had with their head of marketing community.

[00:02:06] Badr: Mr. Ryan Crow back in episode 387 That was right before short box hosted their first ever live event in May. It was called short box live Short boxed has continued to push the envelope for comic buyers and sellers, and has been making headlines thanks to some recent and groundbreaking updates to the app, like the inclusion of a completely free price database, the opportunity to buy and sell raw books.

[00:02:30] Badr: They're also rolling out an auction feature and all of these things have been game changers and absolutely well received by collectors and sellers alike. Gene's going to tell us all about it and what's going on with the market for comic collecting. So if you dabble in slabs or raw books, or if none of those phrases mean anything to you and you're scratching your head, and maybe you're just someone that's curious about what that corner of the comic book fandom is like, we got you covered in this episode.

[00:02:56] Badr: Now, before we get into that, though, let me remind all of you that we are on the road to 400. We'll be recording our Milestone 400 episode later this month, and it's going to be a giant Q& A episode. I'm, I'm calling in, I'm calling the troops, all right? We're going to have the full cast back for that episode.

[00:03:11] Badr: So, we're inviting all of you loyal listeners to participate. If you ever wanted your voice heard on the show, here's your chance, all right? Feel free to send in a short voicemail. For us to play for that episode by going to speakpipe. com slash the short box. And if you're self conscious about your voice, uh, maybe you don't got a good radio voice.

[00:03:28] Badr: That's fine. You can also write into the short box as well by sending your email or question or comment to these short box jacks at gmail. com. Everything I just shared, all the links and details are going to be listed in the announcement section of the show notes. Everyone that submits a voicemail or sends an email or a question for that episode will automatically be entered in a comic giveaway contest.

[00:03:49] Badr: So we're looking for you to chime in with a question or a comment about the show. Maybe share your favorite memory or episode or how you came across the short box. So once again, send in a short voicemail, write in an email, be a part of the 400th episode, and possibly win some cool comics. Now, let's get on with the main event.

[00:04:08] Badr: So, without further ado, let's finally set the stage for today's guest of honor. He's the CEO and co founder of the Shortboxed app, and he's here to talk about its latest updates, the future of the app, and market trends that have the comic community talking. Shortbox Nation, let's welcome for the first time ever, Gene Miguel to the show.

[00:04:26] Badr: Gene, what's up? Welcome to the show. We made it happen.

[00:04:31] Gene: Awesome. Thanks for that awesome intro. I really appreciate it. And super, super excited to be on the show today. Uh, just got to get used to hearing a short box and short box over and over. It's always, it's getting me. It's like every time I hear it, it sort of triggers me.

[00:04:44] Gene: Um, if you allow me to just, just one little aside, uh, there have been a couple of times, you know, at conventions where we're set up and, uh, random folks would come up to us and be like, Oh, Hey, I love your podcast. I'm like, no, but yes, they do have an awesome podcast and I'm glad you're listening to it.

[00:04:57] Gene: I'll make sure I let them know. So yeah, it's just, it's, it doesn't confuse just you and me. It's everyone.

[00:05:02] Badr: I love it. That's great. I can't say too many people have come up to me and been like, yo, I love the app. Well, actually, I take it back at Heroes Con, I did have someone like, yo, I love the app because I think I was wearing, um, one of our shirts and, you know, I just played with it.

[00:05:15] Badr: I was like, yo, thank you so much. You know, we value, you know, trying to try not to become out there representing for the short box. All right. Well, I appreciate that. I love the background and I've seen that background, uh, in some other interviews you've done. And I finally learned today. Uh, that it's, uh, it's in your main meeting room, right?

[00:05:32] Badr: I saw a video, Chi Comic Girl, hopefully I'm saying that right. But they posted a video on YouTube, a tour of Shortboxed HQ. And I gotta say, man, you guys have a lovely office. So your background

[00:05:43] Gene: is awesome. Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, this is the, um, this is one of our conference rooms. And, uh, again, obviously we, we, we have fun here at, at Shortboxed.

[00:05:51] Gene: We're obviously all comic book nerds. And so, uh, we can, we can do whatever you want. And I was like, you know what? I want to put... Just giant comic book panels, uh, in our, in our conference room. What's funny is that this is actually a wallpaper meant for a child's bedroom. So it's like, it's like, it's like a kid's bedroom wallpaper.

[00:06:08] Gene: And I thought this would be a perfect sort of like zoom background. And I do not recommend, this was my first time having to put up wallpaper. And, uh, next time, uh, hire a professional because it's, it's really, it's a lot of work. Save

[00:06:21] Badr: yourself some time, energy, and frustration. But on the topic of like it being like a kid's, you know, background wallpaper.

[00:06:28] Badr: Some of the best comic book memorabilia or items of like the best artwork. Or usually like the kids stuff. I remember when I, when I finished bootcamp and I started my tech school. This was like year, like almost now, almost 10 years ago or something like that. And we all had to buy like bedspreads for our rooms.

[00:06:46] Badr: Cause you know, they were super bare and the bedspreads they give you are terrible. I can tell where this is going. I went to the Walmart and bought this badass, like a Spider Man bedspread from the kids section. It had Ramita artwork, like yo, I loved it. And they always give like the kid stuff the best retro artwork.

[00:07:02] Badr: You know, like these kids don't appreciate Ramita or John Bassema, like. What are y'all doing? You know?

[00:07:07] Gene: Yeah. Well, that's, that's, what's great about doing what we do and having this passion that we have is that, um, we get to enjoy everything made for kids and adults. So it's just, uh, it's all, it's all good.

[00:07:18] Badr: Well said. And I recommend anyone, uh, that's got, this is a super short video you can find on YouTube. It's called a tour of short box HQ. I'm telling you, give it a, uh, give it a watch and see how many different things you can identify. Bye. And then, uh, I challenged you not to, uh, go to Amazon and start filling up your cart with some of the cool stuff you see in the tour.

[00:07:38] Badr: Gene, you're in, uh, San Francisco, right? That's where you guys are based at? Yep. Based out of San Francisco. Is that, it's safe to say that's where you call home? Were you born there too? Yeah, uh, Bay Area native.

[00:07:46] Gene: But I've been, personally, I've been in San Francisco for 20 plus years now. You know, spent most, most of my time here.

[00:07:51] Gene: And, um, like we, we wanted to base the company out of San Francisco. Uh, for those of you who don't know, my girlfriend and I, we both. Our backgrounds are in tech, and so we've worked our entire careers in tech and obviously in Silicon Valley in San Francisco. And so, um, starting short box, we wanted to make sure that we founded the company here just to have, um, access to talent and capital and sort of like all that good stuff within the

[00:08:14] Badr: tech community.

[00:08:14] Badr: I think that's what that air of, like, cool is to, that extra added air of cool is to Shortboxed. You guys are, at the heart of it, like, a tech company. Well, maybe not at the heart of it. You guys at the heart of it are, like, comic fans. I guess, knowing that there is... a, you know, tech company like yours, like doing these awesome things for comics and it's like professionals, right?

[00:08:36] Badr: Like you guys have that experience and you know, everything that crow shared in his episode is like a legit operation and I think there's like that respect and trustworthiness to the brand. I appreciate

[00:08:47] Gene: that. You know, thank you. And you know, both things can be true in terms of, you know, the core and the DNA of the company.

[00:08:53] Gene: You know, both BGMI co founder and I were both lifelong hardcore comic book nerds. And at the same time, we're both technologists and software people. And so we are a technology company, um, at its heart, you know, you know, many times, you know, we, we actually don't consider ourselves a comic book company.

[00:09:10] Gene: You know, we're a platform where a software company, um, that are building for comics for the comic book industry. Um, so we're very much a technology company utilizing technology and innovation to really disrupt, you know, this entire industry that. Has it really evolved in decades now? That's sort of the whole reason of why we started the company and why

[00:09:27] Badr: we started.

[00:09:29] Badr: So crow when he was on the show he had mentioned how like from I think a design perspective Goat was it was a big one from your perspective. What are some other tech? You know tech companies apps or things like that that inspire you that you look at like wow, they're doing great things I want to bring some of that energy to comic book.

[00:09:48] Gene: Yeah, so there's a couple ways to it's great question, by the way So thanks for asking you that obviously Goat was, was a huge inspiration to us, but really less so specific apps that, that we drew inspiration from and more so, you know, I think it's more, it's, it's better to understand, like, why did we decide to build a short box in the first place?

[00:10:09] Gene: That's the actual, like, motivation in terms of like, why we designed it the way that we did, because, you know, the, the spark that set. BGM myself down the path of building short box came from a place of both, uh, frustration, um, as well as passion for comics and this industry, you know, passion, because we're both lifelong comic book collectors, you know, it's something that's been part of our lives for as long as we could remember, it's part of our identity, which I'm sure is the case for a lot of your community as well.

[00:10:36] Gene: You know, it's more than a hobby, you know, it's a true passion of ours. Um, and then frustration because nothing has really changed or evolved in decades. BGM You know, it was frustrating to us, um, as collectors and as technologists, you know, so we spent years complaining about just how hard and difficult it is and how complicated it is to do something as simple as buy and sell a comic book safely and easily.

[00:10:58] Gene: You know, it's just, it's insane because it's, it's a massive secondary market. You know, we're talking billions of dollars changing hands every single year on what's essentially dinosaur technology. And we really realized nothing would ever change unless we did ourselves, you know, so that's, that's pretty much what we did.

[00:11:14] Gene: And so that put us down the path of deciding we wanted to build Shopbox. And at that point is when we started looking, um, at other inspiration and, and Goat was, you know, a massive inspiration to us because for Goat and, and, you know, other similar apps like StockX, you know, just modern marketplace platforms.

[00:11:29] Gene: Um, and, and I could rattle off, you know, a bunch of other names, but really what we saw was that these modern marketplaces and these modern platforms and ecosystems. Have already existed for other, not just collectibles markets, but just sort of other markets in general that have been modernized over the past few years.

[00:11:46] Gene: And collecting has been around for decades. And for some reason, this experience and this product in this ecosystem did not exist for complex. And it was just really, really frustrating to us. Um, so that was really the inspiration. It was just 1 starting with frustration. But also coming from a place of passion for the hobby and then seeing that these exist in other verticals and in other markets.

[00:12:06] Gene: And that's what really put us on this path of building short boxes. So, you know, goat was, it was a huge, um, inspiration to us because, you know, they, they looked at the sneaker market for those who aren't familiar. Go to a marketplace for sneakers and fashion. And, um, I actually reached out to, uh, Eddie Lou, this, this is, you know, uh, public information, by the way, I reached out to Eddie Lou.

[00:12:26] Gene: He's the founder and CEO of goat. Um, just wanted to learn as much as I could from him in terms of, you know, why he started the company, what inspired him very much the same question. You just asked me, um, and learned that, you know, he came from the same exact place where, you know, he couldn't understand why it was so hard to safely and easily buy and sell, uh, sneakers.

[00:12:43] Gene: Um, and it's, and we ended up, you know. Having a good relationship with each other and bonding and, you know, becoming good friends and he's actually, uh, an investor in short box now, just as a result of that. So, um, again, to say that that was, uh, Goat was an inspiration is, is, is underselling it a bit.

[00:13:01] Badr: Yeah, wow, dude, that's, that's awesome to hear.

[00:13:04] Badr: You're saying a few words that, that definitely resonate with, like, how I view and respect you guys. I can tell that it's being run by, like, legit. Comic fans that are both readers, but also like know what they're doing and what they want to see, uh, in, in the marketplace, right? Like, and we'll talk a little more about the, the current updates that have like just been game changers, but you know, I can tell if every release, all the major releases, it comes from a place of like, man, now these guys have been in the trenches.

[00:13:30] Badr: They know what it's like trying to sell a book, buy a book, you know, and I love that you guys aren't complacent with the way things have been years ago. I would not have imagined like any of that changing like it almost felt foundational almost felt like it was part of the experience like, yeah, we don't have it.

[00:13:46] Badr: You know, we lack this, you know, technology hasn't caught up. It doesn't really apply to comics. I wouldn't have believed that any of this stuff would have changed or gotten better. But you guys are out here doing the comic lord's work. So kudos to you guys. Oh,

[00:13:58] Gene: I really, really appreciate that. Um, what's also so important is that every employee at short box is a comic book collector.

[00:14:07] Gene: Every single person, you know, all our engineers, everyone in marketing, everyone in operations and support, everyone in business development, you know, everyone across the board is a comic book collector and it's important because from. A support and operations perspective, we have to be able to talk to our customers who are also obviously comic book collectors and so having a deep, intimate understanding of their pains and what they're going through.

[00:14:30] Gene: That also comes through in terms of product and engineering. We have to understand what needs to be built because, you know, we're actually our own customer. And we're building this for ourselves, you know, and that's something that BJ and I, you know, made sure of right when we started was that, uh, we knew we had a shot at doing this because we're building for ourselves.

[00:14:47] Gene: We're building something that we thought needed to exist because we were our own ideal customer. And we knew that there were a lot of collectors out there. And to your point, you know, nothing, nothing would have changed. Um, you know, everything would have been the same. The status quo would have been the same, and it needed, it needed to be shaken up a little bit.

[00:15:02] Badr: You know, and since we're on the topic of the origin stories and all that, I was, uh, stalking your Twitter page, uh, earlier this week, and I noticed, uh, you posted... No, I haven't tweeted in a while. Yeah, that was the one thing I noticed. Thanks for the reminder to get back to tweeting. Yeah, all good. I think you mentioned something about taking, like, uh, a break from social media, which I'm kind of overdue for, but I did find, uh, I did see that you, uh, tweeted a photo, like, uh, how it started versus how it's going picture on your Twitter, um, uh, I think like two years ago.

[00:15:31] Badr: The photo of how it started was from 2014. And I think it was, it was you and your co founder. Set up at a convention, you guys had, were standing by, just the biggest cheese eatin grin, by the way. You guys were standing by like some dollar comic boxes, obviously like, you know, early days of short box. There was like some flyers for short box.

[00:15:50] Badr: They had the logo. I guess when you think back to those early days, one, I didn't know that you guys were like, doing the convention hustle, bringing in boxes, selling, selling like that. Can you share a few words when you think back to like, that photo or those early days of like, You know, being on the convention floor and in the trenches.

[00:16:09] Gene: Yeah, well, the interesting thing here is that, you know, while we launched Shortbox, the app, you know, three and a half years ago, almost exactly three and a half years ago, we had been... Working on short box, the brand for nearly a decade now, you know, I think Chrome mentioned, we started as a blog just to connect with other collectors.

[00:16:27] Gene: Um, this was before there was, you know, a thriving Reddit communities, you know, all over the place. And so we just needed a way to connect with collectors. And then we actually became dealers ourselves. Now we hit the convention circuit. Uh, we took PTO from our jobs to, to travel around the country to set up at conventions and through that experience.

[00:16:47] Gene: You know, establish relationships with collectors, you know, all over the country, all over the world, establish relationships with the top dealers in the industry. And it was really through that experience of being dealers ourselves and no longer just sort of like collectors, you know, buying stuff on eBay and whatnot, but just being dealers ourselves and.

[00:17:05] Gene: That's what actually sort of peeled back the curtain for us just to see how poorly and inefficiently this entire industry is run. And when we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars from the biggest auction houses on the planet or in the market running on. 20 year old web technology and Excel spreadsheets, um, just very, very, very antiquated.

[00:17:27] Gene: And so we had to spend years, you know, like you said, in the trenches being dealers ourselves, because that's actually what showed us how poorly this entire industry is running sort of, again, that sort of, uh, kick the rock down the road across many years of just constant complaining about how, how bad everything is.

[00:17:44] Gene: And again, now you could go back to what I spoke about a couple of minutes ago that, that really sort of, you know, spurred the. The spark, you know, that that sort of, you know, set us off there and, you know, with our backgrounds in tech, which I mentioned before, you know, we essentially just sort of combined our superpowers, if you will, you know, and we started working on shortbox, you know, the app while we had.

[00:18:07] Gene: Our full time jobs, you know, we, we did have, you know, admittedly, you know, you know, very like cushy jobs like in tech, uh, but obviously just having this passion for comics and being deals for many years, we just started hacking on it, you know, nights and weekends, um, outside of our day jobs. Uh, again, we took more PT on vacations, you know, just to hack and just to build and iterate on the app before actually launched, um, read, rent an Airbnb for a week together and just hunker down for a week.

[00:18:32] Gene: Just to build and just to hack and then, uh, keep attending conventions just to talk to collectors and dealers face to face, learn from them, ask them, you know, what are their pain points? What do they need help with what's not working? Uh, and then, you know, just before we read it at launch, we took that massive leap of faith and, you know, again, left our admittedly incredibly cushy jobs in tech, you know, to work on short box full time.

[00:18:53] Gene: But, you know, we had so much conviction, uh, in what we were building and that it was something that the industry and collectors actually needed. Um, you know, we truly felt like we could build something to help usher this industry forward, um, and just not let it be stuck, you know, in the stone age. So while on the outside, it may look like, you know, we, we launched it three years ago and that was that this has been, you know, years of hard work, years, years, uh, of, of learning, um, and experiencing, you know, all that the, the community, the industry has to offer for better, for worse.

[00:19:22] Badr: Damn, hella inspiring man as someone that works, uh, you know, admittedly a pretty cushy nine to five job I know what it's like to also work, you know, the nine to five and then the five to you know Whatever midnight or however late sometimes I'm up as well So that's inspiring to hear and that's that is so great to hear that So we went from, and we're kind of doing a little bit of fast forwarding and jumping around here, but uh, app launches three and a half years ago.

[00:19:47] Badr: Uh, prior to that it was a blog. Uh, just this May though, you guys did your first ever, um, live show with Shortbox Live in Santa Clara, uh, California. Uh, I had some friends of mine actually go out there. Big shout out to Zach Armour. It looked fantastic. Oh, dude, Zach is the best. Um, I wasn't able to attend, but it looked fantastic.

[00:20:07] Badr: And, and I was curious to hear from you, like, uh, from your perspective, how was it? Like, first hand account, tell me how it went.

[00:20:13] Gene: Yeah, it was, it was an amazing show. Uh, like you said, this was our first time producing our own convention. You know, we, we go to all the major cons. We, we sponsor them. We set up a booth and, you know, we connect with the community there, but.

[00:20:23] Gene: You know, we really felt like it was time for us to produce our own show because, you know, just like I've been, you know, harping on, you know, this old school industry and how things need to change and really wanted to, to usher the industry forward. We also feel that, and I still feel this way, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this as well, that.

[00:20:40] Gene: You know, in person conflict conventions, um, also still need to evolve, you know, they also still need to change, you know, there's, you know, this kind of clear dividing line between con goers, where you have just the general sort of like convention going community, which is amazing. And, and, and, you know, everyone can enjoy something from a con these days, which is great.

[00:20:57] Gene: And I love that. And then you have this other contingent. Uh, just sort of like the really hardcore comic book people who don't care about, you know, celebrities and, and, and, you know, panels and all these other things that they just simply just don't care about. They just want to focus on, on comics. And so they want, like, sort of like the pure comic book show.

[00:21:13] Gene: But I also felt that the sort of quote unquote. Old school comic show where it's just, you know, a bunch of dealers in, you know, a holiday in ballroom or you know, like in a community center, which again,

[00:21:25] Badr: there's thousands of those. Yeah. It

[00:21:26] Gene: has, it has its charms, right. And there's, there's the novelty of it.

[00:21:30] Gene: And then a lot of people love that. And I love that just because I am, you know, a pure comic collector, but that also still has to evolve that that show experience has to evolve. And not just on the attendee side, but on the dealer side as well, because you have dealers that have involved in this industry for, for decades now.

[00:21:45] Gene: And now with. Platforms like, you know, like short box or even eBay and all these other marketplace platforms, it's not hard for collectors to find comics that they're looking for. Like, you know, you don't have to go through mail order catalogs anymore. Like, those days are gone. A lot of comic book collectors and fans don't necessarily have to go to a comic book convention to buy comics, right?

[00:22:05] Gene: And you have a lot of people always complaining, oh, you know, so and so, you know, people like, like price too high at shows and, you know, they just don't like haggling and doing that. Well, at the same time for dealers. They also need to evolve their convention experience as well. So that's, this is sort of just like how this idea was born, where we wanted to sort of flip the idea of the comic book convention on its head.

[00:22:24] Gene: And the way that we made it a little different was it's, it seems minor, but add it all together, sort of made for a really cool experience where. We, we invited all the dealers that wanted to come to the show and, you know, it was, it was all expenses paid for all the dealers. We, it was by invite only, you know, these are the top dealers in the country who are also short pock sellers, and we covered all their travel and airfare.

[00:22:42] Gene: No, both fees, none of that, because we wanted to curate just an amazing, amazing lineup of the best dealers in the industry. And even just the way that we set up. The convention floor is just one big room with all the dealers around the edges. We invited amazing comic artists. We put them right in the middle.

[00:22:57] Gene: So the focus is on the, on the creators and the art. And we also set up a stage right in the middle of the room as well, so that you don't have to leave and go listen to panels. But the people that were brought on to be panels were creators, other YouTubers and other hosts as well that are hosting content.

[00:23:12] Gene: And so you just created this sort of just amazing energy all within one room. And so there's a lot of activity going on. But the way that it was set up was it just really fostered, you know, face to face interactions and community building, you know, because there has to be more to convention than just pure commerce than just pure showing up.

[00:23:28] Gene: Here's money, take my comic, that's it. Oh, you know, and just, you know, just taking away the pure sort of transactionality of it and trying to really foster, foster community. So, you know, with that said, I think there still needs to be just some evolution in. In the traditional comic book convention. But with that said, it was an awesome show.

[00:23:46] Gene: Um, I love Zach. I know he's been on your show um, a couple times. Like, he's, he's

[00:23:49] Badr: amazing. Zach was kind enough to grab me a few things from, um, from the event. Uh, one of them being that rad Maria Wolf, uh, t shirt that you guys made. And she's fantastic. I'm still waiting to hear back from her to get on the show.

[00:24:01] Badr: I think she's moving, but that's definitely on my list. I guess. Well, I'll

[00:24:04] Gene: see her at San Diego Comic Con this week. So I'll make sure I'm good friends with her. And, uh, we, we spend a lot of time with each other at conventions. And so I'll make sure to, uh, give her the, the, the nudge

[00:24:14] Badr: to go on your show. I had a chance to talk, to meet and talk to her at, uh, heroes Con, and she was, uh, even better than everyone.

[00:24:21] Badr: Uh, she's a

[00:24:21] Gene: talker. She would be an amazing guest have on her

[00:24:23] Badr: show. So, uh, I'm looking forward to it. All right, so Jim, let's actually get into talking about some of the, the new features that you guys have rolled out that have been, like I said, game changers to the community and into your users at the time of this recording.

[00:24:34] Badr: Version 3.2 point version 3.22 is out, which gives all registered users the ability to sell raw books along with some, uh, miscellaneous improvements. And then a month ago, you and the entire team dropped that game changing 3. 0 update that introduced the portfolio feature, um, an updated offering system.

[00:24:53] Badr: And of course the, I think that it's safe to say the crown jewel of that, that rollout, the price guide, uh, database, which is completely free. Uh, I'll, I'll let you explain the technicalities, but I do remember it was something that Crow hinted at and was extremely excited about rolling out. He didn't give too much details, but I could tell that, you know, it was going to be something big and sure enough, it was.

[00:25:13] Badr: Um, judging from the reactions online and the very hard work of the short boxed street team that has been getting the word out. I feel like, um, a month ago, that's all I was seeing on my Instagram feed, whether it was Zach. Or, or diesel Dan or Mark is nerdy, like all of them were praising and making videos and contents about like the, uh, the price guide and then the new updates, but from a layman's, uh, you know, perspective, what are these features and why are they such a big deal?

[00:25:40] Badr: Like, what, what is the importance of having like a price guide database and all that?

[00:25:44] Gene: Right. Right. Well, before that, um, shout out to our street team. So thank you for mentioning they're, they're, they're awesome. And the good thing about a sheet team is, you know, we, we don't tell them what kind of content to create.

[00:25:54] Gene: We don't tell them what to do. You know, they're, they're collectors themselves and, you know, we just let them be themselves. You know, and it's just, and I think it's just a great way for, for us to connect, you know, with communities that we otherwise may not necessarily have been able to reach out to. And they're just, they're amazing people, you know, exact being one of them as well.

[00:26:10] Gene: So, you know, no shout out to them, but for all the features that we launched, there was a lot that we rolled out. We spent months, you know, working on this before we put them out. And so. One of them being sort of the portfolio, you know, this is essentially a collection management tool, you know, it's a way for people to add books to their collection.

[00:26:26] Gene: They could check the value of it over time as they add books and do all that kind of stuff. And if and when, if they're not currently sellers on the platform, if and when they're ready to sell the book, it's just, they just tap on the book in the portfolio and say, list for sale. And it It spits them through, you know, kind of like a flow where they can get the book listed for sale.

[00:26:41] Gene: And so it's just a really cool way for people to, you know, check and manage their, their collection. There, um, of course, raw comics, um, is huge. You know, it's, it's, this is something that we just rolled out this week to all of our sellers that people can just start listening raw comics right now, because to now it's, it's only been graded books.

[00:26:56] Gene: So it's, it's, it's big.

[00:26:57] Badr: Dude, that gets me so excited. When I saw the raw books, first of all, I don't feel like I ever used the phrase raw books, but now it's like part of my fucking dictionary. Yeah. But that got me super excited, because I've admitted on this show, I don't have a lot of slabs. Like, I am at the heart of it just like, a reader, and I give away more comics than I keep, but the raw book feature was, I mean, I was like, oh damn, this is a game changer for me, personally, as well as the um, the next feature we'll talk about, the price guide, but to go back to the portfolio, I'll go ahead and admit, I think I only had a cursory knowledge of like, what the portfolio meant, so hearing you say that like, It's your, it kind of reminds me of, um, uh, I'm a huge vinyl collector for anyone that doesn't know.

[00:27:40] Badr: I mean, that is where too much of my money goes to. And so I'm always on discogs and I love discogs. Fantastic

[00:27:47] Gene: app.

[00:27:47] Badr: Great team. You got good taste, Jan. So I love the fact that I can like on discogs, you know, scan all my records and have an idea of like. How much can I, you know, if push comes to shove and one day your boy needs to, you know, uh, pay a bill, how much is my record collection worth?

[00:28:02] Badr: Even though I don't ever envision myself selling my collection. It's nice to know, I think it's just smart to know, like, you know, what you're dealing with, what you're working with. So hearing you say that you guys have a similar feature of the portfolio and not only that, but you can also, it eases, it makes it easier to sell.

[00:28:17] Badr: That is really dope. Yeah,

[00:28:18] Gene: speaking of inspiration, you know, I should have mentioned Discogs. They also were a big inspiration to us as well. So,

[00:28:24] Badr: yeah. So, my whole collecting story is, you know, I would say, like

[00:28:32] Badr: 10, maybe 15 years ago. I was, I had moved out of the house into my own place, out of my parents, and all of my books, and short boxes and long boxes were in my parents garage, which is not a great place to, like, store your comic. Yeah, I hope they were off the ground. Uh, some of them were. But I remember, like, my mom was like, Hey, Luke.

[00:28:53] Badr: You've got to do something with these books. You've got like 13 long boxes, 20 short boxes. Do something. And I remember selling my, I found like a, a bulk buyer. He, he ran, um, he does like shows around town, comic show, or he did comic shows. And he came through, bought everything I had. And ever since then, I've been very self conscious about like, just not having a lot of, um, you know, short boxes and things, but at the time I had no idea what my collection was worth.

[00:29:16] Badr: So in hindsight, some days I look back at it, like you fool, you should have just bought, you know, paid the storage unit and figured that out a little better. So hearing you say that, you know, had I maybe held off until now, I would have had a good idea of what I had and what it's worth. I mean,

[00:29:32] Gene: don't beat yourself up over it.

[00:29:33] Gene: That happens to all of us. We all have our books that we regret selling. Every single person has their stories. So, you know, you're not alone. You know what it is,

[00:29:44] Badr: is that I'm seeing books, like, first appearances of, like, modern characters that I was around for, that I, like, I, I was in the shot, I was working at a comic shot when Miles Morales, like, first appeared, and Kamala Khan's, and, you know, all of those books from, like, that mid 2000 knots, like the 2010s on up.

[00:30:02] Badr: I had like so many of those, but I wasn't, you know, I was, I had other priorities. So I'm seeing like those books, like increase in price. And it's like, damn, man, I wish I had a better resource, you know, back in the day to like get a grasp of what, uh, um, you know, what my collection was looking like. So I say all that to say the portfolio feature is awesome, but tell us about this, this, uh, price guide database you guys built.

[00:30:25] Gene: Yeah. So, so price gets pretty important to us. Um, you know, at the highest level, it's, it's a pricing tool, you know, it's a way that you could type in a book, you know, a title and an issue number and just look up historical or recent sales for that book. You can see like how, how recent it's been selling, how many have sold, how much it's sold for.

[00:30:43] Gene: And, you know, it's just, it's, it's a tool for, for buyers and sellers just to research comic book prices and values, right? So all we do is we pull. Okay. Millions. We have over a million, um, recent sales that we can show from a mix of short box sales, eBay sales, um, heritage and, and, um, virtually every other platform as well.

[00:31:02] Gene: So we actually show you, you know, all the recent sales on there. Um, but now what, what makes this sort of more important to us is that again, I mentioned that BJ, my co founder and I, you know, we're, we're both hackers. We're technologists. We are huge proponents of open source software, and we've been very involved in the open source community, our entire careers.

[00:31:21] Gene: Um, and, you know, we do believe in an open and free Internet. And so, you know, there's a reason why I'm saying all this right now, because, you know, with that context, access to publicly available information should not be gated behind a paywall, right? And when I say information, in this case, I mean, comic book sales data, right?

[00:31:38] Gene: You know, there's a lot of, there's, there's tools and platforms out there. Where, you know, you can research and look at prices and, you know, you can pay your, you know, X amount of dollars per month. Um, but really, we want to make sure that all collectors, sellers, dealers, everyone has access to pricing data without having to pay for it.

[00:31:54] Gene: Right? None of this information is, is private, you know, or proprietary. It's all out there for free. Um, a lot of us know how to search, eBay by sold listings, right? Like your, your community, you know, is full of seasoned

[00:32:06] Badr: collectors. And I am a black belt in eBay sold and completed listings. Don't even try me on

[00:32:12] Gene: that.

[00:32:12] Gene: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like in a lot of, in a lot of cases, you know, they're experts at doing this, but at the same time, you know, I would say you being a black belt in, in searching eBay for, for sold listings is not the norm. Right. I would call you an expert at doing that. And more casual collectors. Don't even know how to do that.

[00:32:30] Gene: They don't even know how to reach the price. So, so they're immediately at a disadvantage, right? This creates a parody in the market between certain groups of buyers and sellers, you know, and our job is really just to democratize access to publicly available information to really just create an even playing field for everyone again, you know, collectors, dealers, buyers, sellers, everyone, because, um, again, this information is, is free and it's public.

[00:32:52] Gene: And, you know, we just wanted to make sure that we built a tool that everyone can use. Um, yeah. Without getting it behind a paywall, because, uh, again, I think it's good for, for, for the industry and just for the market as a whole. If everyone is on a level playing field, again, it's just it's access to information.

[00:33:06] Gene: And so we decided just to build this tool, um, and roll it out for free. You know, we, we did get a lot of pushback from some folks like, oh, you should be charging, you know, 5 bucks a month for this or 10 bucks a month for this. And for us, no, it's just, it's, it's information, um, that's available to everyone.

[00:33:19] Gene: And it's a, it's a completely free tool. Yeah. Um, that people can use just to research comic book prices. And so it's, it's a, it's a feature that, that we're personally very kind of like proud of. Gene, if you

[00:33:28] Badr: were running for president for presidency, and this was like your platform, you know, like open source access to, you know, a free access to information, I'd vote for you in an instant.

[00:33:37] Badr: That was excellent.

[00:33:42] Badr: I'll go ahead and give another compliment in terms of the database because I was playing around with it today just before we hopped on. I was like, let me see like what it actually looks like and how, you know, what that experience is smooth. Dude, smooth, like I, I mentioned, you know, jokingly being a black belt and eBay, um, uh, sold listings.

[00:34:01] Badr: The problem with that is that it's not like, it's not very digestible. Like you're right. Like you really kind of got to know how, you know, what features, what, what, uh, filters to set. And it, you know, it leaves much to be desired in the sense of presentation,

[00:34:14] Gene: right? It's either it's that experience or. You pay a service to tell you

[00:34:19] Badr: what a book is worth.

[00:34:20] Badr: And I, look, I've never paid a service to tell me like how much a book is worth. Cause at that point I'm like, well, then I don't, I clearly can't afford that. Or I should not be paying for that. Like I said, I was playing around with it. I was looking up the first appearance of. Hellboy and, um, uh, I think Iron Man 118, which is the first appearance of, um, of, of Rhodey.

[00:34:38] Gene: Okay, hold on, can I, can I, uh, interrupt you real quick, if you don't mind me asking? So, first appearance of Hellboy, controversial topic. Oh my god. So, I'm gonna put you on the spot here. What was the book that you were searching for that you, that you think is the first appearance of Hellboy?

[00:34:53] Badr: Okay, I just typed in...

[00:34:55] Badr: Next Men 21. Now, Oh my god, you're gonna send me down this, uh, hellboy, uh, uh, uh, this hellboy... You're gonna get a bunch of angry messages now, sorry. And this is actually something Crow, uh, we, we talked on, uh, when Crow was on, but I know hellboy's like... Hellboy's consider what Next Men 21 is considered the first...

[00:35:12] Badr: Full appearance of cowboy that we know of, right? Like interior artwork, all that. The red and all that. I know there's a bunch of other first appearances prior of him looking much different.

[00:35:21] Gene: There's like the San Diego Comic

[00:35:22] Badr: Con number two. There's that one. Uh, Crow put me onto the, uh, that French comic mm-hmm.

[00:35:28] Badr: Where it's like a early prototype of him. So yeah, I, I'm familiar with like the different, like, you know, um, The different first appearances that, uh, that people recognize, but I just put in X Men 21 just for, you know, cause it's just easy to find. And then obviously that, that Iron Man issue. And yeah, man, it was exactly, as you said, it, you know, everything came up.

[00:35:46] Badr: Um, I love the fact that you guys say where all this, uh, sales data is coming from, whether it be eBay, third party apps, when it was sold. So you got an idea of like relevancy and it's kind of fun to just kind of see like what some of these like things go for now. And. And, you know, and where they sold and so just from like a data, you know, kind of nerdiness or a data hoarder aspect like that's, that's a cool feature, even if I don't plan on buying these books or seeking them out, it's just, I just love the fact that it's seamless, it's easy, the presentation is clean, you know, like, and, and who doesn't, even if you don't, Dabble in selling books or slabs and all that stuff like, I don't know the commerce side of comics is an interesting and fun aspect to it, man, you know, like it, it, it adds a certain character to it and who doesn't like seeing like, wow, you know, uh, the first appearance of doc doom is going for, you know, thousands of dollars, you know, it's just something to that.

[00:36:38] Badr: It's, it's just fun. It's, it's, it's

[00:36:39] Gene: crazy, right? Especially when you chat with folks who aren't involved, you know, in this, in this industry, in this market, you know,

[00:36:46] Badr: their mind

[00:36:47] Gene: eyeballs just pop out of their pockets when they see how expensive these things are.

[00:36:52] Badr: Yeah. Now, Gene, I got to ask you from a. From a newbie user, right?

[00:36:56] Badr: Like I said, I'm just kind of dipping my toe back into, uh, comic book commerce and, and marketplace and all that. I'm curious though, from, from just like kind of a selfish standpoint, I have a crap ton of graphic novels and trades. When I solved all my single issues, I kind of transitioned to like trades and nice hardcovers and omnibus and things like that.

[00:37:15] Badr: Is there any plans, like... Future plans for supporting like the sales of like those type of books or maybe even like toys like comic related toys at some point, or you guys kind of strictly keeping

[00:37:25] Gene: it well, the, uh, uh, just opened up a can of worms here. The short answer, the short answer here is, um, is yes, you know, like, like, like long term, you know, we do, um, we would like to expand the platform, you know, into other markets, into other collectibles markets, right?

[00:37:41] Gene: You know, you know, not necessarily, um, Let's say, um, like an eBay, which is marketplace for every single thing under the sun, you know, but there's still, you know, focus on on collectibles. But, um, that's that's much, much further down right now. We are 100% focus on comic books because it's still such a massive market.

[00:38:00] Gene: There's still so much work to be done here. I think there's still a lot of optimizing to be done on the absolute lot more features to be built. Um, and so just, uh. A lot more ground to make up and still a lot more to accomplish. And this is what we know. This is what we understand. This is our audience and our community.

[00:38:16] Gene: Um, and there's still so, so, so much years of work to be done, um, to really feel like we, we, we truly have, you know, kind of usher this industry into the next generation, which is really our goal. You know, we want to make it easy and safe for everyone, not just us now, but generations beyond us. You know, how do we.

[00:38:32] Gene: Make comics and comic book collecting more mainstream. How do we make it more accessible? You know, what are the things and the features and programs we need to run to, to do that. And I think now is, I mean, if you don't mind me going on a slight tangent here, and I think now is just, there's never been a better time to be a comic book nerd.

[00:38:47] Gene: I think just, just in history, I think now is just an amazing time to be that comic book nerd because we've had this amazing. Tailwind over the past, you know, 12, 13 years, um, whenever, you know, the MCU started, however long ago that was, you know, now you've got comic book characters, just infiltrating all types of popular media, you know, like movies, TV, video games, everything.

[00:39:11] Gene: Um, and really just thrusting these amazing characters and stories into the mainstream. And I think this is good for the industry as a whole. Um, You know, sure. There's always going to be gatekeepers who kind of, you know, like the hipster gatekeepers who want to keep these characters and stories, you know, to themselves and like, not let it get too cool.

[00:39:28] Gene: Um, and to reach the run, of course, uh, but I, I don't, uh, agree with that respectfully, you know, I've, I've been a comic book nerd my whole life. And now most of my childhood and adolescent years, You know, I almost had to hide that, you know, it wasn't necessarily something that, you know, I wanted to broadcast to the world that I was this, you know, you know, mega comic book nerdy, especially, you know, when I was in like middle school and high school, you know, I just trying to be, you know, navigating that world and, you know, trying to do things that I felt like weren't going to make me too uncool, you know, going through those sort of very formative years, um, you know, it wasn't necessarily something you wanted to, to, to, you know, broadcast out.

[00:40:01] Gene: So now today. Yeah. When I go to the movies and I see an entire theater full, um, of people cheering on these heroes and these characters that I grew up with and have such a strong personal connection to, um, it's such an amazing feeling. You know, it's like, it's like, uh, the comic book nerds won and there's room for everyone.

[00:40:22] Gene: On this on this hype trend, you know, and we really want to usher this truly into the mainstream and how do we make it more accessible? How do we make it easier? Um, and again, it's about building platforms and tools and opportunities and just making access so, so much easier for everyone. And so, so that's, you know, part of

[00:40:38] Badr: our mission, if you will.

[00:40:40] Badr: I co signed everything you just said. I want to add that I can walk by a locker to this day and I get PTSD. So I know, I know what it was like having to hide, like, your comic fandom. You mentioned the movies, you know, obviously being a great, um... Being a great pipeline to, you know, people, uh, finding about comics and entering this culture and things like that, do you from a, like a, just a nerdy like data and, and, and marketing trends perspective, like, do you guys see a bump in, uh, any significant, whether bump in sales or.

[00:41:13] Badr: I don't know. Do you guys notice anything on your side when, like, these movies come out? Like, obviously, I'm thinking it's obvious that, like, you know, if, uh, let's think of, uh, what's the movie? Like, Blue Beetle comes out next month. Like, are you, do you see, like, those bumps in, like, first appearance of Blue Beetle comics?

[00:41:30] Badr: Or whatever it may be when those trailers and those movie time come?

[00:41:34] Gene: Um, so yeah, so I think the, I think this is pretty, you know, most folks can probably guess the answer is, is yes, we do. Right. I think it's a very clear sort of like phenomenon that, you know, when there's an announcement, suddenly all the copies disappear off of short box and eBay and all the other platforms or there's a new trailer and then you see a bump in sales and then the next trailer comes out and then the movie comes out and then maybe there's a dip depending on how good the movie is.

[00:41:57] Gene: Maybe it continues to dip or it gets even more expensive. So, you know, what, what we see on our end, at least on short box, you know, um, What we see is a reflection of the market as a whole, right? It's like what, what we see in the wider market, you know, is, is reflecting to what happens on, on our platform as well.

[00:42:12] Gene: What's, what's funny is that man, collectors are on top of things. They are quick. Like they're, they're like James Bond level, like quick with just getting access to information. I don't know how they do it because. Like, you know, we have sort of an internal dashboard, you know, when orders are coming in, again, you know, it's sort of like firing off like all day just to see, but you know, we may log on in the morning or hop into the office in the morning and we suddenly just see a string of sales, a very specific book and it's like, okay, something happened, something went out there, hop on Google.

[00:42:43] Gene: Google the book, see what, and like the news isn't even out yet. And then like midday, like the, something like it'll drop. So there's like, people are getting access to information somehow because we can tell, cause we'll see books just flying off, um, without any sort of announcement. And then we'll see the announcement get leaked or through a press release or through blogs, you know, hours later.

[00:43:02] Gene: So it's, it's, it's kind of crazy to sort of see that happen in real time. That's, that's been a sort of a, an interesting phenomenon that, that we've

[00:43:08] Badr: seen. I guess like based on the, the data that you guys see and, and you know, the, what you guys collect on the back end, like maybe not even so much so on the back end, but it just in general, what are some common, I guess, mistakes that sellers or maybe even buyers at that are making when it comes to selling and buying comics?

[00:43:25] Badr: And do you have any like tips and tricks to give, uh, you know, sellers and buyers when it comes to like. You know, uh, being efficient or, or, you know, maximizing profit or getting a fair deal. Like, what are some of the, um, the, the things that you notice or would advise to?

[00:43:38] Gene: Yeah, I mean, I think on paper, right, a buying and selling transaction should be fairly straightforward and simple.

[00:43:47] Gene: It's like here, I'm a seller. I have this book. Here's my price. Then you have a buyer. Cool. I have money. Here's my, here's my money. And then you make the transaction, um, in the real world. It's never that simple, right? So if I was going to boil it down, I think it ultimately comes and I discussed it earlier and you can probably guess where this is going is it's when there's a lack of information or one side or both sides, you know, don't have the full picture.

[00:44:11] Gene: Right. Or like both sides of reality is going to be completely different. So for example, maybe you have someone who's never really sold a comic before. So, you know, they pull this comic out and they say, Hey, I heard this book is, is expensive. Um, I want to ask, you know, I don't want to sell this for less than a thousand dollars.

[00:44:26] Gene: And then you have someone who's interested in buying that. And you know, the last 10 sales have been for a hundred dollars. Clearly there was a gap between those two. Both of the realities are very different where the buyer might say, no, man, this book is worth a hundred bucks because look at the last 10 sales.

[00:44:40] Gene: They've all been for a hundred dollars. So why would I pay a thousand dollars for this book? But the seller, like his reality might say. Well, no, this book is super important to me, like this is the copy that I bought off the newsstand when I was a kid. This is, this is so valuable to me. And so now there's just this disconnect between how both parties sort of like value that book.

[00:44:58] Gene: And I think for, for both sides, you know, if I was going to give a tip, it's just, um, you know, try and understand where the other side is coming from, right. And just try and understand it. And if the disconnect is that wide. Then it's okay to just walk away from the deal. Like it's okay, you don't have to buy it.

[00:45:12] Gene: And likewise, if you're a seller, you don't have to sell it. You know, everyone is, you know, a lot of people will complain how a lot of sellers will price books way too high. Well, you know, sellers can price a book at, you know, whatever they want. You know, these are collectibles. You know, the market decides what a book is worth.

[00:45:26] Gene: Likewise, You know, sellers may be complaining that buyers are always low balling them and they want to, you know, undercut them while at the same time, you know, it's, it's as a buyer, it's, it's my money and I'm, well, I could pay whatever I'm comfortable paying for it. So, you know, I think a lot of the, just the disconnect just happens when both sides are on sort of completely different fields and they're just not, um, again on the same page.

[00:45:47] Gene: And I think it's, it's okay to walk away from that. It's okay to say, Hey, you know, I think we're. We're too far apart. This isn't for me, you know, uh, and the reason why I was thinking of this example now is because, you know, I was talking about, you know, conventions and something that you see at cons all the time where, um, it's just, it, it, it devolves into two people arguing with each other over the price of a book and how much they're willing to pay.

[00:46:11] Gene: And they're just so far apart and it's, it's, it's okay to just walk away from a deal. You know, it's, it's, um, Be patient, right? You also don't if you're a collector on a bar, just be patient. Like a book will come around again, unless you're talking at of just, you know, the most rare golden age, you know, obscure golden age books that you see once here.

[00:46:29] Gene: But, you know, for most of the superhero stuff, especially from the silver age onwards, there's other copies, you know, just just be patient. Um, it's really easy to get sucked into FOMO. Especially when there's, you know, trailer drops and announcements and news and just being hit with a deluge of just like content and people telling you what to buy.

[00:46:47] Gene: So, um, I would say make sure you just have, you know, all the, all the information you need to make your buying or selling decision. Um, it's okay to walk from a deal, just be patient. Uh, and then, you know, Don't don't don't succumb to FOMO. Just just collect what you love at the end of the day. You know, that's that's the one thing I know.

[00:47:03] Gene: It's very cliche. But, um, if you collect what you love, uh, then you'll you'll you'll pretty much never lose. You know, you'll you'll you'll be happy. You know, it's it's, uh, there's there's no magic bullet to it, right? Uh, you know, part of the the challenge of that is that there is so much information out there.

[00:47:19] Gene: You know, everyone does have have information. So it's it's it's hard to scam people. You know, people will try and unfortunately, some people will get scanned, but. Um, the more information that's out there, you know, the more level the playing field is, the better and happier, I think everyone will be in the more efficient, the market as a whole will be in terms of just facilitating transactions at the day.

[00:47:36] Gene: Um, just, just collect what you love and, and try not to get, get sucked into the FOMO of things.

[00:47:40] Badr: Masterful answer. You've given, all right. You've said a few things in that, that, that answer that, that I want to, uh, pick apart. For starters, I guess I've never given serious consideration to the emotional connection that someone's got to a book when it comes to selling.

[00:47:55] Badr: I never thought about it from that perspective of like, you know, what that book could mean to someone personally, and why that might skew. Uh, their perception of, of its value of what it should be worth. That is, I feel like that is a psychology

[00:48:09] Gene: paper waiting to happen. Yeah, it happens more often than you think.

[00:48:12] Gene: You know, you have a, especially when it's folks that are sort of like selling their personal collection books. Yeah, yeah. Right, it's just. This is for my grandpa, and you know. Yeah, they're on two different realities. It's just, um, and you know, you may not even be able to come to come close. And so just at least, just, you know, being aware of these types of things, you know, a more simplified version of this would be someone may have overpaid for a book and now they're trying to recoup their money and the market is tanked and a buyer may be like, well, you know, that's your fault for overpaying for the book.

[00:48:37] Gene: You know, it doesn't mean I have to, I have to

[00:48:38] Badr: pay that much. They're trying to pass the book of, yeah, I gotcha. Wow. Okay. And then also it highlights. short boxed, unique role, right? Like, not only you guys a platform for these, um, you know, transactions to happen, but also put you guys in a peculiar spot, like kind of in the middle.

[00:48:54] Badr: And I guess if you guys were just like strictly for, you know, uh, strictly thinking like, what was your capitalist brains and it was only for like business only, you guys could just leave it be. But I do like that you guys are doing pro taking proactive steps to. Be unifiers to like lessen the gap between both parties and giving, you know, both parties like that, I guess, really like the information to be aware because if you're saying like the biggest problem is like the lack of information or awareness or being on the same page, then you guys are, you know, trying to bring a solution to that.

[00:49:25] Badr: And that's highly commendable, but not nearly as commendable as hearing a CEO of a company say, Okay. Walk away from the buy, you know, walk away from the deal. I think that is also commendable that, you know, you put, you know, the, the, the buying and the selling experience first and foremost before profit, uh, because at the end of the day, you know, like a sale that doesn't go through in short box is, you know, it's money out of your pocket, but it sounds like you're looking at the bigger picture and the health of the community.

[00:49:50] Badr: And that's awesome to hear.

[00:49:52] Gene: Yeah, it's our job from a product perspective from, you know, a user experience and a design and future perspective just to remove all those barriers so that buyers and sellers can just go straight to the transaction itself without having all of these barriers in the way, right?

[00:50:09] Gene: Let's give both sides equal access to information. So they're both on the equal playing field. Let's just make the whole process easy so that it's just as simple as. Buying a book that you want at the price you want or selling a book at the price that you're willing to sell it. You know, it's, it's really just our job from, from sort of like a software design perspective to make it as easy and seamless as possible.

[00:50:27] Badr: Well said. So you've given us examples of maybe some of those hurdles between the buying and selling experience, but I want to, uh, zoom out a little bit and maybe look at, you know, uh, the, the place that short box has in a larger scale in the comic book industry. You know, because a consistent, I think, topic of debate that, that you'll hear if you're, you know, in this culture and in this world, um, is the, the status and health of the comic industry.

[00:50:50] Badr: It feels like every couple of months, uh, the topic is brought up, um, in online circles or, you know, in comic shops or among, you know, fans that, you know, the status of the industry. Is it, is it thriving? Is it dying? Is, is manga pushing it out of relevance? Or are movies... Helping at all. You know, are they, you know, bringing in new readers or that we have new fresh blood, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:51:08] Badr: You know, pick any of one of those. And it feels like any day of the week or any, you know, week that's brought up and debated online. But I'm curious from, from your perspective and short boxed in general, like what's the biggest. Challenge facing short box. Is it coming internally from the industry itself?

[00:51:24] Badr: Or is it something from the outside or more from like a technical or a tech company perspective? Like, what are the challenges that you guys are are challenged? And I guess opportunities for short by continue growing and advancing? No,

[00:51:38] Gene: that's a great question. Um, you know, and it touches on some of the things I've already discussed.

[00:51:42] Gene: You know, Again, our mission as a company is to make comic books more mainstream, more accessible, right? When I say comic books, I mean, you know, the, the collecting secondary market, like how to make it a bigger market. Because I think the industry as a whole, when you look at the incumbents in the space, you know, the incumbent auction platforms and other sales platforms and other marketplaces, they have had this massive and incredible tailwind over the past decade.

[00:52:09] Gene: Of these characters being thrust into the mainstream. Now there's just been this amazing tailwind to really, you know, solidify complex as, as a very mainstream, um, a hobby. And I think the ball was just dropped. Um, you know, I'm not going to call anyone out specifically, but it's just really just sort of like the industry as a whole, because they haven't evolved in, in many, many years.

[00:52:28] Gene: And there was this huge opportunity to, to really make comic books, um, really public. Why aren't comic books? And I could say, this is why aren't they up there and as popular as sneakers. Um, you know, someone you could even make the case of, like, like put up there with vinyl as well. I would argue that vinyl collector is probably even maybe even more mainstream, um, than complex or trading cards or sports cards.

[00:52:49] Gene: Um, and I think it's just because the industry as a whole just kind of flubbed this one, I know, over the past few years. And so our challenge is to be that platform to really usher this. This industry for it and make it more accessible to more of a mainstream audience, because whether you like it or not, like comic books and at least the secondary market, it's a massive, massive market and comic books are a big business.

[00:53:14] Gene: And, you know, the books themselves are expensive. Um, and valuable and we want more people to be into comics. We want, we want more people into, into collecting comic books because, you know, a growing number of collectors don't even consider themselves collectors, but investors, you know, that, that word is probably going to kind of trigger a few folks, but that's just sort of like the reality of it.

[00:53:34] Gene: You know, they don't treat comic books, um, as just sort of like comic books or just like a collectible item, you know, they treat them as alternative investment assets and stores of value. Well, you know, guess what happens if no one cares about comics, you know, they become worthless, you know, like the market decides what a book is worth, you know, so, you know, conflicts are not just part of mainstream popular culture, but they're also just pure, you know, Americana, you know, they're part of our history and culture, you know, not a fad and, and, you know, they haven't been a fad.

[00:54:03] Gene: It's been 80 years, you know, so with Disney and Warner Brothers owning Marvel and DCIP, I think it's safe to say that these characters and stories kind of will be. Yeah. Entertaining the world for generations to come. And it's really our job to make sure that. We build a platform and we make it accessible so people can, you know, continue to collect comics, because what we're seeing is there is a growing segment of collectors that are entering the space, not because they remember buying comic books off the rack from the pharmacy or the grocery store, which is how I bought comics when I was a kid, but they're discovering these characters through video games, through TV, through film, and they want to go back and they want to own the source material, or they get exposed to comics and they want to go back and read old stories and new stories.

[00:54:42] Gene: Um, But, you know, we just have to make sure that we make that possible, you know, and that starts with, um, building platforms like, like shortboxing and other platforms as well, just to, to really sort of just grow this industry. So it's a very long winded way of answering your question of, you know, what's our challenge?

[00:54:56] Gene: Our challenge is, is that how do we usher this industry forward? How do we make it more accessible to everyone? I'm not just in the US, but also just, you know, worldwide, you know, they're, they're, they're collectors all over the world, not just the US. And so, you know, that that's really sort of like the big picture of the challenge that we're

[00:55:10] Badr: tackling.

[00:55:11] Badr: Well said, that's a great perspective to have. Gene, my last question here, and I've got to adjust this one just a little bit, because you've been giving gems and then great advice the whole show, but if you were to, if you had the opportunity to give a younger version of yourself a piece of advice that you wish you would have had starting out.

[00:55:31] Badr: You know, uh, that that would have made life easier, you know, all these years of experience you've got now and in hindsight, like what's something you would have given, uh, you would have told a younger version of you or maybe just in general, like what is a piece of advice that you would give to someone looking to carve out their own spot in comics that might necessarily not be a writer artist.

[00:55:51] Badr: I do like the fact that your story involves like You know, your passion for comics, but also like your passion and know how of technology and whatnot, like what piece of advice would you give

[00:56:01] Gene: that? That's a great question in which we can probably, you know, expand upon for another hour of talking. And it's a very loaded question, but I would say.

[00:56:10] Gene: Trust, trust your conviction. Right? Tru. Trust the conviction that you have. Um, you know, and there there's many ways to interpret this, right? If we're talking about, you know, sort of like comics and comic book culture specifically, and the folks in this industry, you know, they have their own ideas or the things they wanna build or the things they wanna accomplish and, and do.

[00:56:27] Gene: You know, and it does come from a very personal place because, and I think I mentioned earlier that. For a lot of us, a lot of collectors, comic books aren't just this sort of like fun hobby for a lot of days, and that's totally fine. But for some of us, it's something very personal. It's something that we identify with.

[00:56:39] Gene: It's something that has been with us our entire lives. And so when deciding sort of like what path you want to go down or what you want to accomplish and what you want to do within this space or other spaces as well, it has to come from a place of just really, really high conviction where you truly believe that You know, taking your skills or what you have and what you have to offer and being able to combine it with whatever it is that you want to accomplish.

[00:57:01] Gene: Um, you just have to have a lot of conviction and you have to trust your conviction and just go with it. Right. And not not now it's turning into a little bit of, um, kind of like an inspirational type of talk, but it's true. You know, all of us, we have conviction in what we want to do and what we can do.

[00:57:17] Gene: And we just have to trust that and kind of make that leap of faith and. And just go for it, um, because, you know, I mentioned I went, went beach and I'm in the early years. Our conviction was so strong because we had spent years complaining to each other, you know, almost like therapists just complaining every con we go to every time we set up at a show, just constantly complaining about how hard and complicated and convoluted all this is and like, we could see it and just made so much sense.

[00:57:43] Gene: And we had complained for years, right? When we should have trusted that conviction from the onset, right? We could have built faster. We could have built sooner. We could have built earlier and done all that. And, um. You know, you just in general, you just have to trust your own, your own conviction and let it sort of lead you and don't shy away from it.

[00:58:00] Gene: I love

[00:58:01] Badr: hearing that. That is, that is awesome. I, it reminds me of, um, I'm going to botch this quote, but it's like, you know, be the solution that you want to see, you know, like, uh, I feel like I've heard that from a lot of entrepreneurs and CEOs is like, you know, if there, if you've got a hobby or something you love, like try to identify.

[00:58:17] Badr: Those opportunities, those problems and see if you can like build a solution, you know, be that solution. So, you know, one thing I

[00:58:23] Gene: want to add to this also is that in terms of just trusting in your own conviction and having conviction and it's something in the first place is also is important because.

[00:58:33] Gene: You may be faced with a lot of people telling, you know, or telling you that it won't work, or you can't do this, or you won't accomplish that now. And so being able to identify whatever conviction you have in the face of that, in the face of those headwinds, trying to push back against you is all the more reason to it to just like, trust, trust your gut, essentially, because, you know, uh, if you allow me to expand on this a little bit, we did have a lot of people in the industry who.

[00:58:59] Gene: Told us this wouldn't work and to not do it because it's never worked before. And a lot of people have tried, you know, doing this and we'll never beat, you know, platform X, Y, or Z because they've been doing it for 20 years. Well, they've been doing the same thing for 20 years and they haven't really helped the industry at all.

[00:59:15] Gene: So, you know, we might as well give it a shot.

[00:59:18] Badr: Damn right. Mic drop right there. Well said Jean. Gene, obviously I feel like a part two is definitely need. I know you're a busy guy. I got to let you go, but this, this conversation has been fantastic. Like that was a lot of fun. Thank you. Yeah, man. I'm going to have links for your socials and links for people to check out short box themselves in the show notes.

[00:59:37] Badr: But do you have anything else that you want to share with the listeners? Like upcoming projects, special announcements, uh, previews, parting words, shameless plug away. Good, sir. Please.

[00:59:45] Gene: No, that's just it. I mean, obviously I spent a lot of time just talking about short box itself, so I don't think I need to expand that anymore.

[00:59:50] Gene: But, you know, for those of us who may have been hearing about short box for the first time on the show, um, and you're into buying and selling comic books, definitely just, you can download it. It's a free app on iOS and Android. And also my, my inbox is open. I love connecting with the community. Um, you can just email me if anyone has any questions or they want to connect personally.

[01:00:07] Gene: You can just email. It's just gene g e n e at short box dot com. Um, I love getting notes from people and I'm happy to chat.

[01:00:14] Badr: Damn short bikes nation, but look, Jean for president. I think we can all echo that sentiment right there. Jean, thank you so much for your time, man. You have been fantastic. You have a wonderful night and we'll get you back on the show.

[01:00:24] Badr: Sooner than later. Awesome. Thank you. And there you have it. Short bikes nation. That is the end of this awesome. I mean, let's be real, Gene came through and absolutely did the damn thing. That was a fantastic conversation. If I do say so myself, if you feel the same way, if you're just as hyped, do me a favor and help us spread the word.

[01:00:43] Badr: All right. Share this episode with a friend or someone, you know, that loves comics as much as we do. Maybe, you know, someone that's trying to get into the comic book selling and buying game or trying to step up their game. All right. I think Gene has dropped a lot of helpful. Jim's a piece of information.

[01:00:58] Badr: So share this episode with that person. And if you're feeling extra generous, take some time and leave us a five star rating review on Apple podcast or Spotify. Those ratings and reviews mean a lot to us in the sense of it helps us get the word out about the podcast, right? It's like Amazon reviews, you know, like some people go on Amazon and they don't buy the product until they check out the reviews.

[01:01:18] Badr: It's sort of like that way for podcasting, right? We need your help getting the word out that this show is worthwhile and worthy of people to listen to. So leave us a rating review if you haven't already, we'd appreciate that. And as far as next week's show, you can look forward to us recapping our favorite headlines, announcements, uh, previews and all that stuff that come out of San Diego Comic Con.

[01:01:38] Badr: Since this episode is dropping on the Wednesday of San Diego Comic Con, that's where our focus will be and that's what you can expect next week. So hopefully that's something that you guys look forward to. I want to see all the new comic series coming out. I want to see if there's any trailers. We got you covered for that.

[01:01:52] Badr: That'll be next Wednesday. You know what to do. Stay tuned to this podcast feed. Come back next Wednesday. Or check out our Patreon, right? If you can't, wait a week. If you're impatient as hell, like I am, might I recommend that you consider joining the Shortbox family over on our Patreon. That's patreon. com slash the short box.

[01:02:10] Badr: That is your best bet to get extra episodes, bonus content, video podcasts, uh, invites to our live streams, etc. You get so many perks and rewards when you join the Shortbox family over on our Patreon. So if you want more content, more Shortbox content to hold you over, patreon. com slash the shortbox. Sign up for a month, see if it's a good fit for you.

[01:02:29] Badr: If not, go ahead and cancel or do as Gene says. Just walk away. If you're not a fan of the Patreon, walk away. It's all good. But you won't have to walk away, because I guarantee you'll enjoy all the different content and personal rewards that our patrons get treated to. Regardless if you joined the Patreon or not, I appreciate all of you that tune in every week.

[01:02:47] Badr: We couldn't do it without you. I'll catch you next Wednesday, but in the meantime, take care of yourselves, go read your comics, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll talk to you next week.

[01:02:57] Gene: Peace!