The Intersection Where Hip-Hop and Comic Books Meet: An interview with Rob Markman about Hip-Hop Journalism, Comic Collecting, and Spider-Man - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 411

 
[00:00:00] Intro music plays

[00:01:25] Badr: Yo, Short Box Nation. Welcome back to the podcast. If you're new to the show, welcome. My name is Badr and this is the short box podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comic books and pop culture inspired by comics.

[00:01:41] Badr: This is episode four eleven. And today we're talking about the intersection of hip hop and comic books. Which I believe there is a strong connection between the two. Think it's safe to say that a lot of you probably feel the same way as well. If you're a fan of the show or the music that we play, or some of the guests that we've had on.

[00:01:57] Badr: And it doesn't really take a scientist or genius to see that there is a strong, you know, synergy between the two hip hop culture has always embraced the profound storytelling and cool visuals that can be found in comic books. I mean, some of the most successful and recognizable rappers and hip hop acts in the world have adopted and base alter egos and stage names on recognizable comic characters.

[00:02:22] Badr: From Method Man calling himself Johnny Blaze to Ghostface Killa adopting the Tony Stark alias. Look no further than the DJ group The Executioners, who originally went by The X Men. I mean, look no further than the late, great MF Doom, you know, hip hop's biggest villain. Or look at someone like Czarface, who is, is extremely active.

[00:02:40] Badr: And releasing music, but also incorporates a lot of comic book aesthetic and design in everything he does. And if you want examples of comic books making that crossover, look at someone like Bill Sienkiewicz, right? One of the industry's most profound and revered storytellers and artists. He's done so many iconic hip hop covers.

[00:02:59] Badr: I mean, there's a few that I've learned for the first time just recently. And I think the argument makes itself when you look at what Marvel did in 2015 with the now infamous hip hop cover series. I mean, that was... moment for them. It was, it was major. I know I was collecting every single cover that I could.

[00:03:15] Badr: I say all that to say hip hop and comic books, they go together like, like PB and J, like, like white air force ones on white tees. And to help me drive that point home is why we have our guest of honor today. In my opinion, he's a walking personification of these two worlds. His name is Rob Markman, and aside from being a legendary hip hop journalist, he's currently the VP of Genius, a digital media company that houses the world's biggest collection of song lyrics and musical knowledge.

[00:03:41] Badr: He's also the co host of Rotation Roundtable on Amazon Music, which just wrapped up its first season. But before he ever landed any of these major prestigious roles, he cut his teeth in journalism. He was the former co deputy editor of XXL Magazine in the late 2000s, and he's probably written hundreds, if not thousands, of music news articles and album reviews for publications and platforms like Scratch Magazine, Complex, The Source, and MTV, just to name a few.

[00:04:08] Badr: And speaking of his pen game, he's also an established rapper himself. He's got three full length albums under his belt, all put out under his own record label and imprint, A Right to Dream. And to tie it back to comic books, he's also a published comic book writer. He's written short stories for both Marvel and DC, and just last year he wrote the graphic novel Flatbush Zombies 3001, a prequel odyssey which was put out by Z2 Comics.

[00:04:33] Badr: Which he's doing a signing for on December 2nd at Bulletproof Comics in Brooklyn. As you can tell, we could be here all day just talking about his accomplishments and accolades, but trust me when I say he is the perfect guest to have for this episode. Short Bikes Nation, without further ado, let's welcome Rob Markman to the show.

[00:04:53] Badr: Hey Rob, welcome to the show. How are you doing

[00:04:55] Rob Markman: today? I'm doing good. I'm doing good, man. I'm glad that we, we finally, we've been talking about this for a minute. Instagram and DM and then, um, you know, we connected at Comic Con real quick. So I'm glad we finally was able to make this happen. Same man.

[00:05:09] Badr: This is an interview I've been, I've been looking to make happen.

[00:05:12] Badr: And that panel that you did at New York Comic Con, the, the hip hop and comic book panel, um, I was curious, man, like how was it hosting a panel of the likes of. Sanford Green, you know, I mentioned Bill Sienkiewicz, but you also had a DMC from RunDMC. You had Alex Alonzo on the panel as well. How was that experience for you

[00:05:31] Rob Markman: personally?

[00:05:32] Rob Markman: Nah, that was amazing. That was a dream come true. Shout out to my man, Riggs Morales. Um, fellow hip hop legend, like comic book fan. Um, he put that together really. He works very closely with DMC and Daryl Mix Comics, and he put that together and asked me if I could moderate. It came together really quickly.

[00:05:52] Rob Markman: Um, I'm glad people got so much out of it. I was nervous that maybe we didn't have enough prep time. Like, like just the regular nerves of doing something that big. I'd never, you know, I remember going to New York comic con as a kid. Um, and as a fan always, but I had never been a part of it. And then the official capacity like that.

[00:06:12] Rob Markman: So, um, that panel was huge. It was amazing. It was a super honor to be a part of that.

[00:06:17] Badr: Yeah, man, kudos to you. Like I said, I came on the pod immediately and we're just talking about how amazing that experience was. In the middle of the panel, I just looked around. I was like, I think I might be in heaven.

[00:06:26] Badr: Like I am witnessing like my two worlds come together. And learning so much about Bill Sienkiewicz was... Insane. Like I knew he had a lot of ties to a lot of, um, uh, classic hip hop albums, but I didn't know that he did like the EPMD album cover or the, the TI album cover as well. So I got a lot out of that panel, like learning all the different things that that Bill Sienkiewicz did and, you know, Sanford Green chiming in and the respect he had for them.

[00:06:49] Badr: Was there anything that you got out of that panel that was maybe like a light bulb moment or something new for you?

[00:06:55] Rob Markman: I don't, I don't know if there was anything necessarily new that I learned because, you know, we just researched a lot going into it, but. It was just surreal. Like, I mean, you know, I was already in the comic books cause of my older brother and, and, and I had some comic books on my own by the time EPMD came out with business as usual and Bill Zinkevich did that cover.

[00:07:17] Rob Markman: And I remember my brother had the, my older brother had the EPMD tape and I hadn't put two and two together. Like I didn't know that was Bill Sienkiewicz, I didn't know that was a comic book artist, but I knew I was always drawn to that EPMD cover, um, and it was years later that I realized that it was Bill Sienkiewicz, um, and I had known he did the T.

[00:07:36] Rob Markman: I., but you know, it was great, um, Axl talking about the hip hop variant covers. Um, and how that came about. I love Sanford Green talking about his experience. It was, it was just a great panel all around. It wasn't necessarily like a light bulb moment or anything like that. I had particularly learned that I didn't know, but in doing the research for it, it was really dope.

[00:08:00] Badr: And, you know, I'm, I'm gave some examples of, you know, why I think there is that, that cross section between hip hop and comics, but, but I was curious to hear from someone that's, you know, worked professionally in, in both worlds, like. Why does hip hop and comics, why is it kind of seamless together? Why, like, what, in your words, like, what is that connection between the two cultures?

[00:08:19] Rob Markman: I don't know, you know, for us, it was, um, me coming up in Brooklyn in the 80s, like, you know, New York was, was pretty messed up, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, we was looking for somebody to come save us. Hm. And, you know, I, I think, um, you know, I think comic books gave us the fantasy. You know, especially, especially things that, you know, there were a lot of things going on, like when I was coming up, like, like Spider Man had always been my favorite, but Spider Man was like street level as, as much as he battled, you know, like Spider Man was real, like New York city based street level, um, daredevil.

[00:09:01] Rob Markman: You know, like street level, like the Frank Miller stuff was like really gritty and really relatable. Um, even, um, a comic book like cloak and dagger, you know what I'm saying? It was kind of like born out of the eighties and the drug epidemic in the, in the eighties. So I think a lot of that was kind of like intertwined.

[00:09:20] Rob Markman: And, um, and in hip hop too, hip hop was just the way out. It was a way for us to kind of better our circumstances, to imagine, um, a better version of ourselves, to, to imagine some type of growth or like upward mobility. Hip hop had always been aspirational. So there's, there's a degree of fantasy in hip hop as well.

[00:09:41] Rob Markman: Um, like there is in comic books. So to me, that was the connection, at least for, for my generation and kids.

[00:09:47] Badr: That is well said. And I've always felt that one of the earliest things that, you know, when you think about the early architects of Marvel, you know, you're Stan Lee's, you're Jack Kirby's, you're Steve Ditko's.

[00:09:58] Badr: I always felt that their decision to base a majority, if not all of the Marvel universe within New York was probably one of the smartest things they could have done, right? Like it gives like that, that real world attachment for some readers to like have a city and a reference and feel like, you know, especially for folks that live in New York to feel like, Oh, well, I know that place, you know, I know these references.

[00:10:18] Badr: I always felt like that was such an early. Uh, smart decision early on that, you know, really helped them like build a fan base and a dedicated fan base.

[00:10:26] Rob Markman: Yeah. You know, look, and I'm biased cause I'm from New York. So it was absolutely relatable for me to open the page and see things that I've recognized.

[00:10:34] Rob Markman: But you know, I think it just helps to root the story of something real, you know, DC, I feel like maybe had a harder time, you know, Gotham city is like, it's such an amazing concept. Like it's pure fantasy. I think, I think, within the Batman universe or what Gotham city represents. Um, I think they did a great job of the myth of Batman and making that feel very real.

[00:10:59] Rob Markman: And we've seen it in the movies and stuff, but you know, I don't know if we feel that same way about Metropolis. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think Gotham is like an example of when you get it right, when you try to build something of totally fantasy, but yeah, I get my choice, I'm gonna root into something real.

[00:11:15] Rob Markman: And

[00:11:15] Badr: speaking about real places, you know, I mentioned in the intro that you're doing a signing, uh, at Bulletproof Comics on December 2nd. And I believe, uh, comic artists, Damien Scott will be there as well. I understand that shop has not only history and significance, uh, to the neighborhood, to Brooklyn, you know, uh, but what does Bulletproof Comics like mean to you specifically?

[00:11:35] Badr: I understand that you were going there since like, since a kid, right? Yeah,

[00:11:38] Rob Markman: man. Shout out to Hank who owns, um, you know, Bulletproof and I got Randy over there and the whole team at Bulletproof. Um, Bulletproof, I believe opened in 1992 in, um, a place that's called the Flatbush Junction, which is where Flatbush meets No Strength.

[00:11:53] Rob Markman: Avenue is right by Brooklyn College. Look, the thing when I was growing up, there were no comic book stores in our neighborhoods. We used to cop them, you know, we used to get the newsstand versions. You know, I grew up with Damien Scott, who's now a comic book artist, my best friend, that's my brother. Um, and we used to go to stores like Optimo and Stop One and the grocery stores literally like off the spinner racks, um, buying newsstand versions of comics.

[00:12:16] Rob Markman: Cause we didn't have comic book stores close to us. You know, as we started getting older and, and was able to explore the city more. Um, we will find comic shops, different comic shops in Brooklyn. Um, Comics Plus, which was on 7th Avenue and Park Slope. There were a couple of comic stores in Coney Island.

[00:12:34] Rob Markman: Brain Damage was a comic store that I actually worked at, but like Bulletproof was like in the hood. Like we could walk the Bulletproof, like it was just like so close. And so it was like, yo, somebody put. A comic book store in the hood and just felt like, cause you know, when you used to get them off the newsstand, you know, the guys at the corners, they didn't take care of the books.

[00:12:55] Rob Markman: There was no bags and boards. There was, you know, you just kind of bought the comic book as is, but going into a local comic book shops, it's like, that's what they specialized in. That's where they had back issues. It was just a whole different experience. So when Bulletproof opened in Flatbush, Brooklyn, it meant everything to us.

[00:13:11] Rob Markman: And to go back there now as an adult and do a signing. Yeah. Thank you. There with the flap of zombies is like, um, it's just amazing.

[00:13:19] Badr: Oh, that's incredible. When you think back to, like, those early years of, you know, collecting comic books where you could from these convenience stores and such, what are some of the titles that you were collecting?

[00:13:28] Badr: What were some of the creators, artists, or writers that you were looking out for?

[00:13:32] Rob Markman: Yeah, definitely Spider Man was number one. Um, Amazing Spider Man, Web of Spider Man, Spectacular Spider Man, anything with Spider Man on it. You know, I first probably came in right when Todd McFarlane was making his mark on Spider Man.

[00:13:45] Rob Markman: Um, so, Todd McFarlane has always been my favorite artist. And around the same time, I mean, this is Jim Lee. Making his mark on X Men. So for me, it was mainly Spider Man and X Men titles. Um, that I was copying from the newsstand.

[00:14:01] Badr: You mentioned, you know, uh, uh, being pretty good friends with like, you know, Damian Scott obviously said, you know, he's like your brother to you.

[00:14:06] Badr: Um, I understand you're real good friends with Sanford Green. Have you had a chance to meet like some of your other like comic icons, like, like a Todd McFarlane or Jim Lee? Nah.

[00:14:15] Rob Markman: And Sanford Green, I actually just met Sanford for the first time at the Comic Con and we had a good time together. Young Guru would always tell me about him and you know, I knew who Sanford was, but Young Guru was like, nah, you gotta check this out.

[00:14:29] Rob Markman: He's a really big comic book head too. Um, but not really. I mean, Damien I grew up with. So Damien, I knew, I mean, I met Damien, I was six years old. He's a couple years older than me. Um, so I think he was, I was six. He was eight. Our sisters were friends. And so we used to hang out cause of our sisters. And then we became best friends.

[00:14:47] Rob Markman: Um, you know, I haven't really formed a relationship with very many comic creators. Um, You know, something that I hope happens, but it hasn't happened, but, but Damien for sure. Axel, I knew previously to the panel. I had taken years, a couple of meetings with, with, with Axel. Um, Chris Robinson, who's a former editor over at Marvel.

[00:15:10] Rob Markman: Um, I, I, you know, I met and kicked it with, um, Oh my God, you're going to kill me. There's a comic book artist also that I grew up Jamal Eagle. Oh, this is another one. Yeah. He, he grew up around. The corner, um, from me, um, my mother used to babysit for him. So he used to hang out at my crib all the time. But these are guys that I knew before they became comic book artists, you know?

[00:15:36] Rob Markman: And then when I was, I was a kid going to conventions, like meeting, like, like I have like Rob Liefeld autographs from like 91, you know what I'm saying? And stuff like that. So, but now I haven't, I haven't, uh, gotten a chance to meet Todd McFarlane.

[00:15:50] Rob Markman: It seems

[00:15:50] Badr: like you were still very active in the comic book space. I was scrolling through your Instagram and I was like, Oh damn, there's quite a few comic book posts on here. Like, you posted a couple of, um, what I can only assume is pickups from New York Comic Con. But, you had, uh, Dark Knight No. 2, C. G. C.

[00:16:05] Badr: graded, signed by Frank Miller. I think I seen a Hulk 181 in there. Um, uh, you posted a Ghost Rider 15 cover, like that iconic holographic foil one. What is your collection like nowadays? Like, are you still pretty active in terms of buying comics? And are there any significant, you know, major holy grails in that collection?

[00:16:26] Badr: The Dark Knight

[00:16:26] Rob Markman: No. 2 was actually in my collection. And, um, Frank Miller did a signing at Bulletproof and so I got it signed and it was a CGC event. So, I actually just picked it up, but it was actually my book that I had. Um, Hope 181 was my Grail, First Appearance of Wolverine. Really not the First Appearance of Wolverine.

[00:16:46] Rob Markman: Hope 180 is the First Appearance of Wolverine. I, I can take that. I mean, and Hope, and Hope 180. He comes out in the last panel. He says, I am the Wolverine, but that's not the first. But you know what, what, what, what I guess to collect the world recognizes as the first answer Wolverine is one 81, but that was my grail.

[00:17:07] Rob Markman: But at New York comic con this year, I did, I bought a Hulk one 80. I bought a raw copy of that. And I bought a slab copy of 181. And so those are probably my grails right now. Um, I got my eye on a few others. Um, you know, I want a giant size X Men one. I really consider getting giant size X Men one at New York Comic Con.

[00:17:28] Rob Markman: Um, that'll probably be

[00:17:30] Badr: the next one. There are certain Holy Grails that just kind of, you know, are easy to, like, name, right? It's like Giant Size X Men 1, if you can get your hands on a, you know, Batman 1 or Action Comics. But Giant Size X Men 1, um, I know for me personally has, like, a sentimental value to it, too.

[00:17:46] Badr: Just because that's one of the first books my dad gave me. And I, and I feel like that is a book you could still give to someone today that might have all this X Men history. It's still a book that I think, um, Stands the test of time, you know? Wow. So,

[00:17:59] Rob Markman: so your dad passed you down a, a giant size X-Men

[00:18:01] Badr: one, and I don't know if that giant size X-Men, one is an og or maybe like a one of those reprint.

[00:18:07] Badr: I think they reprinted a few times, but I, I wanna say it's a reprint. 'cause I would probably cry if I found out that, you know, my little greasy fingers are all over an OG copy. And I, I want to say he got a lot of his books from like, you know, corner store spinner racks. So he never really got into that collector mindset.

[00:18:22] Badr: So he's got a bunch of awesome, you know, think books that you would consider grills now, but he never kept in a bag and board, you know, like I remember growing up, he had this old wooden VCR cabinet and just comics stacked up, you know, just beat to death.

[00:18:36] Rob Markman: Nah, but that's cool. That's so cool. It's okay that he didn't take care of them.

[00:18:39] Rob Markman: Like, like the fact that he still has them and are able to pass down are cool. As cool as hell. Um, but yeah, you know, a lot, a lot of my collection is from stuff that I bought, you know, I'm, I'm like a late eighties, early nineties. Um, you know, that's my sweet spot. So a lot, a lot of, um, the stuff is stuff that I bought.

[00:19:00] Rob Markman: Most of my collection is stuff that I bought off either the newsstand or comic stores that I was collecting back then. But yeah, no, I got some dope ones. Some dope, like modern keys in my collection. Like I, you know, I have a new mutants 87. Um, I have, um, I actually, I'm sending it off to CGC now. I was just speaking to my guy who.

[00:19:20] Rob Markman: Who has a CGC account. He's sending it off for me, but I'm sending, um, a Spider Man 300 first appearance, first appearance of Venom. Um, cause we also feel like now you

[00:19:30] Badr: just bragging, right? And now you're just bragging, Rob. All right. I get it.

[00:19:34] Rob Markman: New mutants, 98 that I got. I bought that in real time for his parents at Deadpool.

[00:19:39] Rob Markman: Um, uh, First Appearance of Carnage, Amazing Spider Man 361, um, I probably have like four or five copies of those. So, you know, yeah, yeah. Those, those, those are like some of my most kind of prized possessions. First Appearance of Gambit, I think that was Uncanny X Men 266, um, if I'm not mistaken. But also there's a debate of the X Men Annual 14, which one is really the First Appearance of Gambit.

[00:20:03] Rob Markman: So I got both of

[00:20:04] Badr: them. You know, that debate gets brought up a lot is what qualifies as a first appearance, you know, what separates a first full appearance versus like a cameo and some books will go ahead and start a whole online argument, you know, we're talking like 20 page threads of people going back and forth and that's definitely one of them.

[00:20:21] Badr: Yeah.

[00:20:22] Rob Markman: Shout out to my man, Chris at Cheddar Comics. Um, it's an IG account that I follow and I buy stuff. I got a lot of cool stuff from Chris. He did a YouTube video about it. Um, but he asked Chris Claremont directly, like, well, which one is the first appearance? And the whole thing is right, right? Like they intended for the Uncanny X Men issue to be the first appearance, but they jumped the gun and put out the annual before.

[00:20:47] Rob Markman: Um, But I think even Chris said, technically it's the annual, like if you're going by the letter of the law, the annual was the first time that people saw him, despite what I intended, you know what I'm saying, like the first time people saw Gambit, look again, in the annual, he, he appeared in about 10 panels, they called him by name, you know, like it was, it was the first time people saw him, even if they were confused, you know what I mean?

[00:21:10] Rob Markman: Man,

[00:21:10] Badr: talk about a way to shut down that argument, it's going right directly to the source, the man that introduced it, that is wild. Yeah. Uh, are you collecting like current comic books, are there any titles that you're reading now? Do you have a pull list? Or do you even

[00:21:24] Rob Markman: have time? Just because I've been so busy I haven't, I haven't had time.

[00:21:27] Rob Markman: I don't have a current pull list. Um, I just kind of go and pick up what I like in, in real time or, or a couple of things. I'm about to get back into it though as I settle down. What, what really keeps me current though is um, the Marvel Unlimited app. So I just read everything. Best

[00:21:43] Badr: bang for your buck. You know, like I'm always saying support your local comic shops, but you cannot go wrong also having.

[00:21:49] Badr: Any of the Marvel Unlimited app or the DC app too?

[00:21:52] Rob Markman: Yeah, I gotta get the DC one. Um, but the Marvel Unlimited I have, so I'm reading. You know, the last thing, honestly, that I probably collected, like, issue for issue, I was running back to the store and was excited about was the X Men relaunch, the power of X.

[00:22:09] Rob Markman: Um, Those were dope. And then to me, X Men after that, just the relaunch of all the books, the X Men, the Excalibur, the Fallen Angels after like Power of X and that whole crossover. I thought that those books were amazing. Um, and then when they, they just lost me.

[00:22:27] Badr: If we're being real, once Hickman left, it was like, for me, a sign of like, I think I'm a bounce from this party too.

[00:22:33] Badr: You know, like the guy that helped launch this and it like, to your point, it just got, it just got too much. It's like, damn, this is becoming like a, a very strong monthly bill for me to keep up with the story.

[00:22:44] Rob Markman: They weren't my favorite. Like it just started like losing me and then, and I couldn't tell, I was like, do I have to keep up with all of these titles?

[00:22:51] Rob Markman: Like the Excalibur, the Fallen Angels, like where can I jump in and out of, um, and it was just hard for me to keep up. It does get, and because I don't have so much time, it does get intimidating, you know what I mean? Like going in there and then with the variances, like, do I have this one? Do I not have this one?

[00:23:08] Rob Markman: Like I was actually going through my collection the other day cause I was, um, rebagging, reboarding. I bought some, some cool wooden crates from my office that, that I'm keeping the books in. They look really nice. And I realized I had bought like duplicates of certain issues, just strictly off of the variants.

[00:23:26] Rob Markman: Like I thought I had this, I didn't know that I had this. I was confused. Uh, let me just grab it just in case I didn't have it. And I'm just like, man, I got like multiple copies of issues that I'm like, I don't even really care about just cause I got kind of fooled by the variant. You know what I mean?

[00:23:40] Badr: You know, you brought up Damian Scott a few times, and for those that are unaware, Damian Scott is a very well respected and established comic book artist, he's worked for Marvel, DC, I think he even started up his own, uh, label, moved to Japan, done, very interesting story from based on what I gleaned, but, you know, you bring up that, you know, he was like a brother to you, you know, you guys grew up together, I guess, how does it feel knowing that you were able to live a, uh, a dream and, and work in comics and, and have, like, published work with, like, the big two alongside them?

[00:24:10] Badr: Because if I'm not mistaken, among your comic bibliography, you've got, you, you had a short story in the DC comic series, Solo, that was a mid 2000s series. And then most recently, a short Silver Surfer story in the Marvel Voices, uh, comic book series in 2020. Both of them co written and illustrated. with Damien Scott.

[00:24:29] Badr: I mean, how awesome is that, that you got to do this with, like, your best friend that you grew up with reading comics?

[00:24:34] Rob Markman: Yeah, nah, that, that's, that's fire. Um, we always knew. It was never that in my mind. Maybe since 12 years old that Damien was going to be a comic book artist. I've never seen anybody dedicate themselves so much to a thing.

[00:24:52] Rob Markman: I mean, even to this day. I mean, you know, like, this is my family for real. Like, we spent Thanksgiving's together. Like, you know, we grew up across the street from each other. He'd sleep over my, my house when we were kids and stay for a week, you know what I'm saying? Like, uh, he ate dinner with us. He, you know what I'm saying?

[00:25:10] Rob Markman: It was like, when we went on vacations, he came with us, you know, all types of stuff, man. So this is my brother for real. Um, and we just knew we, I mean, he'd always just had a pencil or marker or something in his hand. He'd drawn a napkin, he'd drawn a paper plate. Um, you know, it was just whatever. he can get his hands on.

[00:25:28] Rob Markman: Um, so we, we always knew. And then I was more into music. I was in the comics as well, but my creative outlet was, was music at the time. But I used to try to like draw my own comics and write my own comics. And, and, but he was just miles ahead of, you know, I started drawing. I suck. He, he was miles. Miles ahead is just amazing.

[00:25:47] Rob Markman: So to be able to work with him is like, is, is a dream, you know, to meet you. Success is, is not just accomplishing your dreams, but being able to do it with the people that you love and the people that you came in with this one in the business relationship. So, yeah, I did a 10 page story. Um, a 10 page flash story in Solo 10 was the issue, um, and Solo was an artist focused series that DC had.

[00:26:11] Rob Markman: So each issue of Solo they would give to one artist and it was an anthology of different stories and they let the artist really be the creator and choose what characters they wanted to draw, chose who their writers were. And at this point I was already, um, a published journalist, so I did have experience writing and people knew me as a writer.

[00:26:28] Rob Markman: But Damien got the chance to do solo 10 and was like, Hey Rob, you know, come do a story. Like, and so I wrote the flash story. I look back at it. I cringe. It wasn't very good. Like I was trying this, this, this social political kind of thing. And I don't know if it came across super well. I remember I was reading a review about the book.

[00:26:52] Rob Markman: of the solo book, like online, like on AOL, this is 2005. So this is like where we were at. And they were kind of like, they were like, yo, the book is good. It's dope. The flash story is like, they dissed it, but they were like, oh, this flash story is not great. But they were like, we think there's something missing.

[00:27:11] Rob Markman: Like, it's definitely like worth revisiting. Like there's something here, dah, dah, dah. But it wasn't like great. And me and Damien talk about that all the time. Cause like, I just wish I could get a do over, but he gave me an opportunity. And I wrote that flash story in 2005. When we fast forward to Marvel Voices, which I believe came out in 2020, that was actually my opportunity.

[00:27:32] Rob Markman: Shout out to Chris Robinson, editor at Marvel, just came to me. And first he had came to me because they had put the Marvel hip hop variants in a hardcover anthology. So he, Chris reached out and said Hey, can you give us a quote for the sleeve? So I think they act like me, Peter Rosenberg, Killer Mike, LP, just like people in hip hop.

[00:27:55] Rob Markman: Just give us a quote on what you feel about Marvel hip hop variants, and we're going to put it on the sleeve of this hardcover. So that that's how me and Chris Robinson met, and I gave him the quote. And then Chris Robinson was like. Yo, we're having a premiere of Black Panther. You want to come to the premiere?

[00:28:09] Rob Markman: Hell yeah. So me and Chris are getting cool. Chris is an amazing guy. And then Marvel Voices came out. And Chris was like, hey, would you like to write in this Marvel Voices anthology? I could give you two pages. You could pick whatever character you want. You can choose your artist, but we want you to write it.

[00:28:26] Rob Markman: And I was like, amazing. And I said, well, can I pick Damien? Um, you know, I'm trying to pay it forward. Damien gave me that shot in 2005. Now I have an opportunity that's based off of my name. Hey man, I want Damien. And Chris was like, well, do you think we could get him? I know he's really busy. Cause Damien had been working on other projects.

[00:28:45] Rob Markman: I think Chris might've reached out. The Damien's do some other stuff and his workload, you think we could get them? And I'm like, yeah, I'm

[00:28:54] Badr: gonna see him at Thanksgiving. I'll just ask him at the table.

[00:28:58] Rob Markman: He's not going to say more than me. And, um, and they said I could have two pages and pick any character I want.

[00:29:06] Rob Markman: Initially, my idea for the two page story was, um, I wanted to do a story with Bishop from the X Men. And I wanted to juxtapose it. and do a scene from the movie Juice where Tupac played Bishop. So I wanted to take like a young Bishop in the future, dystopian, like post apocalyptic world, and he's kind of running to the streets like Pac, and I wanted to mirror a scene.

[00:29:32] Rob Markman: And don't steal that. If anybody hears that, don't steal that because I still think we can pull

[00:29:36] Badr: it off. Have you ever seen the Mike Del Mundo, Tupac, Bishop drawing that he did? No, I'm gonna send that to you and it's gonna blow your mind And if there's anyone that you that you should get to do the story it should might as well be Mike Del Mundo Okay.

[00:29:50] Badr: So I didn't know that

[00:29:51] Rob Markman: clearly this is a thing. This is like, you know how they say like no idea is original. Like, so somebody's thinking along this lines, but the reason why I didn't do the story. Cause I was like, damn, yes, we should get it. Cause we're hip hop, but that, that might be kind of niche. Can I use these two pages to just tell a more broader?

[00:30:09] Rob Markman: relatable story. And, and really, I was getting gunshy because I think the flash story, I was trying to tell this story that maybe I didn't have the space or even the chops to tell back in 2005. So I said, man, let me just, just dial it back. Let me figure something out. And then, um, at the time I was like, man, what's the, what, what scares the hell out of me?

[00:30:30] Rob Markman: Like, what is the most terrifying thing to me? And I was like, fucking climate change. Like what we're doing to this planet. Like, I don't know. I was, I was in a wormhole of reading all of these articles about what's going to happen to us and our food supply and all of this. And I was like, damn, that's the real villain.

[00:30:48] Rob Markman: That's like the real Thanos, right? At least to me, right? And, uh, you know, so I told the story about it with two pages and use Silver Surfer to help

[00:30:56] Badr: tell that story. And I don't think there's any character better to tell that story than Silver Surfer, right? Like a character that. Falls in love with the human race because of our potential.

[00:31:06] Badr: Silver Surfer has always been very poetic and very drama focused. And I thought you nailed that story really well. And Damien Scott, obviously, man, his style is so unique graffiti. You know, there's a lot of graffiti influence, you know, it just, it just. It emits like just that hip hop soul to it. Um, so I thought it was like a really good pairing of you two and see like how far y'all came along.

[00:31:26] Badr: Cause respectfully that Silver Surfer story is better than the Flash one, but I did see what you were going for, for the Flash. I just think that he's a character that, you know, can be challenging to write like multi dimensional. Cause you know, he's, he just gets a bad rep for just running fast.

[00:31:39] Rob Markman: Yeah, the Flash story.

[00:31:41] Rob Markman: I, I was, I really, I wasn't over my head. Like I I'll admit that. Like I, I just didn't have the writing chops. And I tried to do something and I don't feel like it worked, but the civil service story, I remember I had a deadline too. I was just. Mulling over this story. I was really trying to get this Bishop story to work.

[00:31:57] Rob Markman: I'm pushing the deadline. And when the, when the silver service story came to me, it was really towards the end of what my deadline was. But when it came, like everything just flowed when I put pen to paper, it just flowed. And I know me and Damien talked about what we wanted to see. And, um, and you know, I told him what I wanted to see.

[00:32:18] Rob Markman: I wrote a very detailed script and he and his whole thing was just like, man, I'm going to support your vision. I see it. I get it. I understand it. Um, Damien's amazing contribution besides the art. Um, cause you know, I have wrote the script, but the one change that he made and it was the absolute amazing call is the panel where Silver Surfer is fighting Thanos with the rest of the other Marvel heroes.

[00:32:44] Rob Markman: Originally when I wrote it, it was just Silver Surfer versus Thanos, because obviously they have a long history. So it was Silver Surfer versus Thanos and it didn't have Captain America in it. It didn't have Rocket. It didn't have Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, none of that in it. And Damien was like, no, it needs to be like everybody.

[00:33:02] Rob Markman: And I forget who it was. I think it was specifically Dr. Strange. She was like, plus I never drew Dr. Strange before, so like, it has to be everybody. And when he said that, I was like, yo, that was the absolute right call. So I think I went back to the script and I just changed because Surfer was talking very like singular.

[00:33:21] Rob Markman: And I might've changed that part of the script. So a week encompassing all the Marvel heroes, but that, that was Damien's contribution to the script and he nailed it. And I'm so proud of how that came out, like that, that, that's one of the things in my career that I'm the most proud of is, is working on that story.

[00:33:38] Rob Markman: Marvin needs to holler at me, man. We got more work to do.

[00:33:42] Badr: For sure, I can co sign that. If you were given the opportunity to write any comic book character, who would you pick and then who would be your, your artist? Like, if you could pick any artist, who would that be? Spider

[00:33:53] Rob Markman: Man and Peter Parker, Spider Man and Damian Scott.

[00:33:56] Rob Markman: Like, it's just, and I'm not even being biased. Yeah. One, because like Damien has some Spider Man work. Um, he did a couple of issues. He did a couple of, but, uh, he did a spectacular Spider Man about a three issue arc with the lizard. He was bringing something to Spider Man that I hadn't quite seen that I thought was so dope.

[00:34:18] Rob Markman: Like Tom McFarlane, for example, right? Revolutionized Spider Man with the eyes, right? The big bug eyes. And it was a change that really stuck for years. With Spider Man, Damien does something with the webbing on his costume and, and Spider Man's fingers, like, like it sounds weird, but his fingers and then Spider Man's fingers as a point of focus, right?

[00:34:42] Rob Markman: Because he's shooting with the webs, right? So. His finger, like, I don't know that anybody has paid as close attention to detail in Spider Man's fingers as Damien had in this three issue run as spectacular as Spider Man. I thought it was amazing. I thought it like revolutionized the character. It kept something really classic and core to him, but gave us a new visual representation of it.

[00:35:05] Rob Markman: I wanted my man to get more than a three issue run. So yes, if I could write something, it would be Spider Man and it would be Damien. I'm going to look up the Spider Man issues right now, my bad. No, I'll get it. I'll get it. I don't want to get off camera, but I have the, the trade, like, if I was Mr.

[00:35:22] Rob Markman: Fantastic, I'd be, I'd

[00:35:23] Badr: be in on it. Rob, while you're doing that, I want to, um, I want to ask, do you have any difference in how you approach writing, say a, you know, a album review or article, uh, versus like, like comic books? Do you have to like tap into a different part of your brain? Or is it at this point kind of like, you know, the same approach?

[00:35:42] Badr: It's

[00:35:42] Rob Markman: the same part of my brain and the same part of my heart because I love them both. It's a different approach because the format is different, right? The mediums are a little bit different, but for me, it's all storytelling, like even writing album reviews, but, or doing interviews and then writing an article, it's a form of storytelling.

[00:35:59] Rob Markman: I'm interviewing somebody, gleaning information, and then I'm regurgitating that and weaving it into a story for the audience to read. So it's all a form of storytelling. And it all kind of comes with just from the same place, but the approach is a little bit different. You

[00:36:13] Badr: know what I mean? When you think about like comic book writers that, that might have inspired you maybe subconsciously or, or consciously, what are some of those, those names?

[00:36:22] Rob Markman: Uh, Chris Claremont, for sure. That, that X Men, again, I, I, I came in late on Claremont. Like I, you know, I got in about the Jim Lee era, but like that increased my vocabulary. Like I used to, again, when your parents would be like, Oh, you're reading comic books, you're wasting time. Yeah. So much of my vocabulary can't claim came from reading Chris Claremont.

[00:36:44] Rob Markman: Cause he wasn't necessarily writing for kids. Like some of those books, like X Men 275 with the gatefold. I remember I had to read that book like two or three times to understand it. So Chris Claremont, for sure. Um, Saladin Ahmed, who, um, who, you know, Spider Man. And I did some work with him on, on, on the Dracula book as well.

[00:37:05] Rob Markman: Um, yeah. Um, I helped co write some stuff. Um, his stuff is, is, is brilliant. Um, I like a lot of Hickman stuff. Um, and then again, I'm from that era, Todd McFarlane also, I think, I think man, Todd McFarlane, uh, probably one of my favorite. comic book stories, or my favorite comic book story hands down is, is Torment is the first six issues of the Todd McFarlane Spider Man series.

[00:37:30] Rob Markman: Um, it was so dark, like, like what Todd was doing with Spider Man again was revolutionary. He took this bright character that we usually saw in the daytime and you know, mild man and Peter Parker and really turned it dark. And then when he went on to do Spawn, it was like, Oh, he was practicing for Spawn.

[00:37:51] Rob Markman: Like, like those though, that's Spider Man Torment series. Was, um, that could have easily been a spawn story like that was like a precursor for, you know, and then even the story after that with Wendigo and Wolverine and, um, the child molester in Canada. I'm just like, yo, what am I reading? Like. Like Spider Man like chasing a child and they thought it was Wendigo that was stealing the children.

[00:38:15] Rob Markman: But they found out it was really some other guy. Like it was dark stuff, but like at the time it was like super revolutionary. So, so those guys

[00:38:24] Badr: for sure. I remember reading that Torment series as a kid and realizing that Lizard would, I was like, man, nah, Lizard would be scary as hell if he was real. Like, you know, I think in that book he eats someone, right?

[00:38:35] Badr: Like he eats somebody? Yeah. That's

[00:38:36] Rob Markman: right. Yeah. Yeah. Straight shook me. No, yeah. And I loved it because it just took it out of this cartoon kind of era, uh, Lizard and the way he drew Hobgoblin. Hobgoblin is still probably my favorite Spider Man

[00:38:49] Badr: villain. Especially when they introduced him in, or had him in, uh, Maximum Carnage.

[00:38:53] Badr: It was a game changer for me.

[00:38:55] Rob Markman: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and then real quick, I did look it up that Damien, if you look at the spectacular Spider Man number 11, um, it was the lizard's tail was the story arc. Um, so it was this spectacular Spider Man series that started in 2003. Um, but the spectacular spider man number 11, the lizard's tail part one.

[00:39:17] Rob Markman: If you look at that cover,

[00:39:20] Badr: the way Damien draws, Yeah, the knuckles and the, yeah, no, that's really impressive.

[00:39:25] Rob Markman: First of all, your knuckles don't exactly work like that or bend like that. But if anybody's did, it would be Peter Parker after getting bit by the spider. Like, like, you know, even if you just look at the cover, it looks like

[00:39:39] Badr: spider legs.

[00:39:41] Badr: I'm getting a lot of like, uh, Humberto, um, Humberto Ramos, I'm getting like some Trad Moore from this, like the way he plays with the angle and the perspective and the, um, the portions.

[00:39:52] Rob Markman: So, so I thought there was some really interesting stuff here that, um, I would like to see him expound upon. So just back to that question, if I got a chance, it would definitely be Peter Parker Spider Man.

[00:40:01] Rob Markman: And it would be with Damien. Not just cause he's my boy. Like I have. actual real reason to back it up. Like, I just think he could do some really amazing stuff with no, no pun intended. He can do some really spectacular stuff with the character.

[00:40:15] Badr: Rob, I want to turn the corner and talk a little bit about hip hop and your contributions to the culture, which if we were to try to do that justice, I think we would need like a solid 48 hours to get through, you know, all of the achievements and things like that.

[00:40:29] Badr: But it's safe to say that you've interviewed anybody that is anybody in hip hop. From household names everyone knows, like Jay Z, Kendrick Lamar, Nipsey Hussle, Wiz Khalifa. You've even interviewed Mariah Carey. Which already would make for an amazing highlight reel. But I challenged myself to see if I could find your first major publication or writing assignment.

[00:40:51] Badr: And I wasn't successful in finding like a copy online to read and reference, but I did find out that your first big published piece was an album review for Jadakiss in 2004, uh, just in time for a second album, Kiss of Death. Considering that it's been almost 19 years since that first album. First major, uh, writing assignment and looking at where you're at now with, you know, all the different names and all the different people that you've interviewed and you've gotten to work with, do you ever look back at that first assignment, that first album review and still feel something or has that moment been eclipsed with like a hundred other moments?

[00:41:27] Badr: Like, is there still a lesson from that assignment that resonates with you that you still carry with you to this day? Or have you just grown so much that, you know, you're in a completely

[00:41:39] Rob Markman: different headspace? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that night, I was like, oh, this is what I want to do. Like, I didn't, I, it was like, oh, they let me in the door.

[00:41:50] Rob Markman: They gonna have to bring me out on a stretcher. Like, you know, at the time I had graduated college and I didn't have, I was still working the job that I was working after high school, which was, you know, I was in the mail room somewhere. And, um, and I will write freelance, you know, my free time when I wasn't working in the mail room.

[00:42:10] Rob Markman: Um, and. You know, they, they said, Hey, you gotta go, you're going to go up to Yonkers, to D block and you know, somebody is going to play you the Jada album. Take notes, listen to it a couple of times and then write your review. I didn't know that it was Jada that was going to play it for me. And it was just me.

[00:42:27] Rob Markman: It wasn't like, now they kind of do it. Like. junket where people go in and goes for album listening. It was really just me in the studio and Jada was there. I remember Jen was there. Jen had just got signed to Rough Riders after his success. So

[00:42:41] Badr: Jen, that's a name I haven't

[00:42:42] Rob Markman: heard in a minute. Yeah. Shout out to my man, Jen.

[00:42:45] Rob Markman: But and I mean, I was locked in. I was zeroed in. So I'm stone faced. You know, I'm trying not to show no emotion. I didn't want to, just in case I had to give Kiss a bad review or like, I didn't know what it was going to sound like. So I'm like, man, let me just stay professional. But on the inside I'm screaming.

[00:43:01] Rob Markman: I'm like, yo, this is crazy. And then there's some amazing records on that album. Like, um, but why, like hearing why for the first time, um, was like incredibly powerful. Um, there's, there's records on that album that I love. To me, that's still my favorite Jadakiss album. Is the kiss of death. Once I did that, it was cool.

[00:43:23] Rob Markman: I would have probably done it for free. I'm like, and they're going to pay me? And I was like, all right. They go like, this is what I want to do for the rest of my career. Like this, this is it. And so that, I mean, that's what I took away from it. Once, once I was in, I was like, I'm, I'm not getting out of this game.

[00:43:39] Rob Markman: Like they will literally have to kill me and bring me out on the stretcher for me to not do this for the rest of my life. Powerful.

[00:43:45] Badr: I guess what's it like knowing people out there? Like, really value and respect your opinion and words on music, and how do you stay grounded and maintain that trust of your fans, knowing that you do have a relationship with artists and maybe you've befriended a few of them.

[00:43:59] Badr: Like, how do you stay, stay grounded and true to who, you know, what got you here?

[00:44:04] Rob Markman: Yeah, I mean, you know, first it's just, um, I have gratitude to just know that people care. About what I have to say, because there's, there's, everybody has a platform. Now, um, there's, there's a ton of voices out there. So I have an immense gratitude that people care what I have to say.

[00:44:24] Rob Markman: And with that gratitude and with that position comes responsibility. Like when I got to be true to myself and then, but I gotta be kind of true to my audience. Like I can't like. Lie or fake something, you know, um, and I'm not a negative person. I'm also, you know, I, I do feel like the space has turned into the WWE a lot.

[00:44:46] Rob Markman: I know a lot of personalities, this whole thing is personality driven. So the guy who yells the most, the guy who bangs his fist on the table, the most, the guy who says the most disrespectful thing is going to get the clicks is going to go viral. That's who people are going to pay attention to. You know, that's not me.

[00:45:03] Rob Markman: But I will get my point across. Like, I will, like, sometimes I'll say things, I'll just call it like I see it. You know, it just won't be a personal attack. Like, you know, like recently on the show, on the last episode of our Rotation Roundtable show, you know, I had to call out Soulja Boy. for, for going at J.

[00:45:23] Rob Markman: Cole and it's like, Hey man, you sounding old and bitter. You're sounding like the guys that you used to go up against when you first came into the game. Um, it wasn't flattering, but I didn't call Soulja Boy out his name. I didn't, you know, it wasn't like Soulja Boy's acting like a bitch. You know what I'm saying?

[00:45:39] Rob Markman: Like there's still a way to articulate your point. So I, you know, I say, Oh, I'd say I have, um, gratitude. Um, I have a responsibility and I have respect for the audience and respect for the game. Um, at the end of the day, and I, you know, I think those are things that are like really, really important to me, um, that I won't change for anybody, you know?

[00:46:00] Rob Markman: Well said.

[00:46:01] Badr: How much time would you say you spend listening to, to music? I imagine in your position, you know, that's like a requirement of the job, but like just rough estimate, how much time would you say you, you're spending listening to music, finding new artists, like doing that groundwork and that homework?

[00:46:14] Rob Markman: It's hard to quantify. It's not like I set time. It's just when. When, you know, when I'm not in the zoom meeting, when I'm not, you know, when the music is on, when, when, when there's nothing else going on, I can be going through emails and whatever, and I can listen to music. Um, I watched that NBA season started.

[00:46:30] Rob Markman: I watched basketball. I'll put it on mute and I'll listen to music while I'm watching the game driving. You know, I live in Jersey now, so I live further out from the city. So driving, listening to music, every chance that I get, I'm still listening to music, but, you know, I'm doing a lot of things, you know, in the genius.

[00:46:45] Rob Markman: It's not just in front of the camera. Like I'm on the executive side, I've managed a team of multiple people. Um, so it's meetings. It's one to ones. It's career building. It's, it's, you know what I'm saying? Creative brainstorms. It's, you know what I'm saying? All that type of stuff. But every free chance I get, I'm listening to music.

[00:47:01] Rob Markman: I'm listening to something I'm trying to discover. I have a passion, particularly for new artists and just find a new talent and things of that nature. So, you know, all the time and, and, you know, it's disheartening because you get into this industry and you find out how many people in the position of power actually don't listen to the music, care about the music at all.

[00:47:18] Rob Markman: Um, it's just like. Backwards, and I don't

[00:47:21] Badr: understand it. When you think back to, you know, writing, like, heavily writing reviews and covering music, what was your process like? Like, did you have a ritual when it came time to like, okay, I need to listen to this album objectively and, you know, write my thoughts on it?

[00:47:35] Badr: Like, how do you get into that mindset versus just enjoying music, you know, just leisurely? Yeah,

[00:47:42] Rob Markman: it depends, right? Because there were different ways, especially in the times of the album reviews, which are less prevalent now. You don't need album reviews as much anymore because everybody's listening to it in real time.

[00:47:51] Rob Markman: What made album reviews so valuable in the print journalism days is we would get the albums 30, 60 days, sometimes 90 days in advance. and get to live with it or listen. So for example, sometimes like, like in the, in the, um, situation with Jadakiss, I had to go to the studio and they played the album for me.

[00:48:12] Rob Markman: So I couldn't take it home with me. So I had to send the album and they would play it. I probably listened to the album like three times. They played over and over again. And I'm sitting there with, with a pen in the pad. Already listening, taking it in, but trying to jot down what I feel that, Oh, wow, this is what it made me feel.

[00:48:30] Rob Markman: I'm trying to capture that. And so I can go home and don't forget it. And I can take my notes and weave it into something. Um, I'm trying to write down lyrics. If there was a particular poignant line, I'm trying to describe in the moment, how beats sound and things of that nature, so I'm taking notes. Um, even, you know, sometimes, like I said, I was one on one with Jadakiss at the time.

[00:48:51] Rob Markman: Sometimes they will bring a bunch of journalists into the room. And give you drinks and give you food and play the album. And then you had to write the review or whatever. And it became a social event, even then while everybody was socializing, I would find a corner near the speaker and I would just be there with my notepad, just taking notes.

[00:49:09] Rob Markman: Um, so, so that was my process. It's really like a lot of note taking, just really trying to get my first ideas out, my first, um, things out. So when I go home, I had notes to jog my memory about how I felt about the music and I could weave it into a review. Then there was some times when they would actually give us the album and we could live with it and formulate your review.

[00:49:28] Rob Markman: And in those instances, I would live with it. I would play it while I'm playing in the house. I will play it while I'm driving. I will play it like in everyday circumstances and live with it for a couple of days or a week and then write my review. And I've always had the music there that I can go back to as a reference.

[00:49:44] Rob Markman: Um, so I didn't have to take as much notes. I can just live with the music. So those were kind of the two ways of processing.

[00:49:51] Badr: Do you ever miss it? Or, or do you, or do you appreciate like the advancements that we've made as far as like technology and, you know, uh, I guess the, the barrier of entry kind of like lowering, uh, as far as like, you know, um, music reviews and such, like, do you miss those days?

[00:50:06] Rob Markman: I do, I do miss it. I'm not upset at the barrier of entry being lowered, right? Like I, I think accessibility for people is good. The fact of the matter is, is that everybody who access doesn't have respect. I mean, you see it on social media all the time, like a Drake album will come out and 15 minutes after it dropped, Oh, this is a classic.

[00:50:29] Rob Markman: Oh, this is his best album ever. And it's like, how? It's been 15 minutes. You didn't even listen to the whole thing. Like, do you just listen to music or you skim through it? Um, you know, I, I think, I think with the access, the, um, conversation around music has been devalued and become cheaper. Um, and again, a lot of it is about the loudest voice in the room instead of the most articulate voice.

[00:50:57] Rob Markman: Um, and again, I'm not mad at the accessibility of it. But I'm, I'm, I'm mad that now we can't discern who really has respect for this and who doesn't. So I just wish people have more respect for it. So in a way, I do miss it, you know what I mean?

[00:51:12] Badr: Well said. So when you consider that there seems to be a lot of attention on hip hop history, and justifiably so, this year, 2023, marks 50 years of hip hop.

[00:51:23] Badr: You know, we're seeing a lot of Um, attention to important dates, uh, people sharing, you know, the, the years that meant a lot to them. Just last week, everyone was celebrating, you know, 30 years of Wu Tang entered the 36 chambers and tribe called Quest Midnight Marauders all dropping on the same day, 30 years ago.

[00:51:40] Badr: And I want to ask if you personally have a standout year in hip hop or maybe a specific moment in, in its 50 years, or just in your career specifically, that's a highlight for you or, or mean something that means something special to you. There's so

[00:51:53] Rob Markman: many. There's so many. Um, you know, again, it starts probably in the nineties for me.

[00:51:58] Rob Markman: Cause that's that coming of age. Like when Illmatic drop was like a huge moment. So we're talking 94, but we're talking 95 the summer that, um, only built for Cuban links drop was, was like huge and, and and definitive for me. Um, but shoot, 2003 when, um, 50 dropped, get Richard die trying was, was an unforgettable time.

[00:52:22] Rob Markman: Um, you know, um. 2006 when Jay Z, um, celebrated the 10 year anniversary of Reasonable Doubt with a concert at Radio City Music Hall was something I got to attend as a professional. Oh, wow. Review for XXL was a big moment for me. Um, there's just been so many, um, you know, for me though, it really maybe starts in the nineties, but you know, so far gone, I think was a game changing moment when that came out.

[00:52:53] Rob Markman: You know, I could just go on and on. Um, but. Yeah, it doesn't stop, you know, um, good kid, mad city, like getting that album. And, and, you know, at this time I'm, I'm on the inside, I'm at MTV, but I remember having to fight for MTV to even interview Kendrick three days before his album came out. I said, Hey guys, this is, I was in Vegas and Kendrick happened to be there.

[00:53:16] Rob Markman: We were covering, uh, little Wayne. And Birdman shoot, or could it just been Birdman video shoot? I was in Vegas. So we doing behind the scenes video and Kendrick happened to be in town performing in Vegas. So I said, I want to go to the show. So I went to the show and then I called back at MTV. I called back the office.

[00:53:33] Rob Markman: Hey, I need a camera person. I'm gonna go with Kendrick to the studio after this show. y'all, we need to interview him. And you know, it was tough. It was like, ah, we don't know if we have somebody available. Like, really? Like, is he that much big of a deal that, Hey, it's meant, I know it's nine o'clock over there in the West coast, but it's midnight.

[00:53:51] Rob Markman: Like, really? You're calling at midnight for Kendrick? Like who's Kendrick? Yo, this thing, this album is going to be a big deal. Like this, this is important. And getting camera and interviewing Kendrick, you know what I'm saying? Um, that, so Good Kid, Bad City, just that whole week of release was, was super, um, important.

[00:54:09] Rob Markman: You know, being a part of the XXL Freshman covers was super important. Um, you know, covering Nipsey Hussle when I was at MTV, when he dropped his 100 mixtape

[00:54:21] Badr: was just super important. Rob, if I may ask, were you involved with the, was it 2009? The 2000, 2009 Freshman cover for XXL. Were you at XXL at that time?

[00:54:32] Rob Markman: Which one was that? Was that the... Asher Roth,

[00:54:34] Badr: your, uh, Charles... Okay, that's... I've got a few dates as far as like my personal hip hop celebration. Today is actually weirdly oddly enough, on the day we're recording this, is one of them because it's like the 20 year anniversary of the Black album and G Unit's Beg For Mercy.

[00:54:50] Badr: It was the first time I convinced my mom to buy me rap albums and, uh, so those albums hold like a special place in my heart. But... The day that that XXL Freshman cover came out, that is a day that I won't forget, because for me, it was like seeing these rappers that I was closely following on, you know, rap blogs, you know, you're Blue, you're Charles Hamilton, you're Mickey Fats, as the years progressed, those XXL Freshman covers kind of became like a point of contention for a lot of rap fans and debates, like, I guess maybe this is just a general question on, on how you approach and handle like criticism and, you know, the online angry mobs and things like that.

[00:55:27] Badr: Like, how do you stay grounded in that regard and not letting that impact your day and your mental and, you know, well being?

[00:55:34] Rob Markman: I had to learn how to, how to not let that impact me. But what I learned is, um, Hey, if you don't like it, do better, like, okay, now, now here's where the bar is. Like, like take, like, it's easy to criticize, do better, um, or do something.

[00:55:52] Rob Markman: Um, but you know, you're not going to please everybody. You know, what I would say is the freshman covers that I was a part of and people, and there was point of contention about that 2009 cover too. I think it came out in 2008, forecast in 2009, but I remember people were like, well, Ace Hood. I remember like Ace Hood caught a bad rap, but Ace Hood had hits.

[00:56:12] Rob Markman: After like, you know what I'm saying? Like ASL had a run. Um, you know, nobody, nobody's going to like a hundred percent of what you do. I think at least me though, and nobody at my time at XXL, and I don't believe XXL does this now, but I can definitely speak for my time. There was never a meeting for any of the freshman covers that I did.

[00:56:30] Rob Markman: And I did about three of them where people were like, Oh, let's pick this person. Because that's really going to get, that's going to piss people off. That's going to get people talking. Like it wasn't trying to troll. The fact is, is that the industry doesn't support 10 new careers every year. Like 10 new artists, 10 new rap artists don't blow up every year.

[00:56:52] Rob Markman: Um, so some people are not going to make it. Some people's going to take longer than others. Um, but the idea was that. As a rap fan, you could find at least somebody on that cover that you like and identify with. And if you can't, out of those 10 artists, find an artist that you can champion, the problem is not the cover.

[00:57:10] Rob Markman: The problem is you as a fan, you know, and that's the way that I, that I always approached it. But I think we always try to do the right thing. I remember the year And we would get criticisms. I remember the year that we put YG on the cover. Um, and this is like when YouTube started really first becoming important.

[00:57:28] Rob Markman: I couldn't believe the amount of traffic that Tooted and Booted was getting. Like, you know, now that we look at it, it's not the most memorable YG song that You know, but two didn't boot. It was a moment, not just for LA, but for the internet. And I remember just how it traveled on YouTube. And I remember, um, somebody writing an article.

[00:57:52] Rob Markman: I know who it was. So I remember we actually argued about this on Twitter once, but, so, you know, I'm not even gonna go there, but there was an article written, you know, they used to grade the freshmen. And I think we had like a D or something for picking YG and they were like, Oh, this is Def Chan pay over, Def Chan paid for this.

[00:58:11] Rob Markman: No, Def Jam did it like we, we picked YG. I don't think his budget had even opened yet because when you look at that freshman cover and then my crazy life came out, it was years. It was at least a year, maybe two years before it came out. It hadn't opened his budget. I don't think Def Jam, they had just signed YG, but I don't think they cared.

[00:58:31] Rob Markman: very much or really had a plan in place. There was no money exchange. There was no favor being done. Like YG was on that cover because he was popping. And, and, and I remember getting dissed cause YG was on the cover and they said, we took money. We took pay over this and that. And then when he dropped my crazy life, uh, when he, that was the first album, right?

[00:58:50] Rob Markman: My crazy life, when he dropped the first album and the album was a classic, like it was just a banger that I has, there was such a feeling of vindication. It was like, Oh, this is the guy that they said we took money from. No, we, because we knew what the potential was. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, for some guys it doesn't happen right away.

[00:59:08] Rob Markman: And some guys it takes a year or it takes two years or whatever. So you're always going to get criticism, but do better. You know, I used to be on MTV's hottest MC's list too. And, and people would criticize us for the pics that we made. I, you know, I've had people call for my job. Oh, he should be fired. Oh, he doesn't know what you're talking about.

[00:59:24] Rob Markman: Oh, this, all that. And sometimes I've gotten it wrong. Like there's absolutely times when I got in the room. But I consistently know what I'm talking about. And there are few people with a track record like mine, you know what I'm saying? Like it's a, it's a, it's an elite class. So, you know, it's just raising the bar.

[00:59:42] Rob Markman: If you feel you could do better than me, do better. And then we're going to be in a great place. Like I encourage you to do better because that's going to make sure that the coach is in a great place. Somebody can come across and do this job better than me. Please. I welcome it. Like, and there are people out there who can be better than me.

[00:59:56] Rob Markman: I'm not saying I can't be top, but it raises the bar. So I brought it to this level. Who's going to come and take it another level. Let's do it because the game is going to be better off.

[01:00:07] Badr: I will say one thing about those covers and the hottest MC. I forgot all about that. You feel like you just unlocked the memory with that.

[01:00:13] Badr: Regardless of if I agreed with everything or not, it, it got me talking and it felt like it brought, you know, it got me talking with my friends and, you know, having that conversation, I felt like brought us closer in the sense of like learning where all of us were at, like musically and, you know, what certain, you know, who we liked and why we liked them.

[01:00:29] Badr: So, yeah, those, those are some fond memories for me. And, you know, hearing you talk about raising the bar and, you know, doing better, who are some, Who you would consider your peers or people that motivate you from that journalistic, you know, uh, uh, perspective and that writing perspective, like what names come to mind?

[01:00:44] Badr: Like who, who do you look at? Like, okay, he's doing something really dope and, you know, I want to strut, you know, he's pushing me to become better.

[01:00:52] Rob Markman: Sway, you know, starts with Sway for me. Um, obviously my OG, he's a mentor to me, Daytuan Thomas, these are guys who came before me. Um, even Elliot, I know people have seen me and Elliot go back and forth, um, not in the best way, but Elliot is a guy who, who, who set a mark, who raised the game, who elevated the game.

[01:01:12] Rob Markman: And, and, and so absolutely inspired by Elliot, Angie Martinez, you know, these are just some of the people that came before me. Me and BDOT are peers. We came in at the same time. So I I just saw Wano, my brother, Wano Clark, um, just interviewed Tyler, the creator on, uh, Amazon live stream. I can't flog and all.

[01:01:35] Rob Markman: And I was so inspired when I seen like Wano sitting with, with. With Tyler just, Oh man, I got to step my game up when I was happy for my man. I was seeing what was going on, but I'm like, yo, okay, this inspires me to do better. There's more to do. Let's go. So shout out to Jynx, I think Jynx is absolutely brilliant.

[01:01:56] Rob Markman: Um, you know, I love what Jynx is doing, you know, Mouse Jones is somebody who I'm a fan of too. These are guys that are, that are younger than me that I still look at. And like, um, you know, my man Armond, um, also. I think he's super dope. So, you know, these are, these are cats who inspire

[01:02:15] Badr: me. What makes for a good interview?

[01:02:17] Badr: Like, are there any elements that you think every interview should somehow incorporate or topics touch on? Like, like what would you say to that?

[01:02:26] Rob Markman: I mean, well, one preparedness on both sides, but preparedness for me as a journalist, so just to be prepared. And knowledge will know what I'm talking about. Um, a willingness and openness from the other side, like art, like you can't force anybody to talk.

[01:02:40] Rob Markman: I can't beat an answer out of you. So you gotta want to be there. I often tell publicists, there's some artists who just don't enjoy doing interviews. And I also often tell publicists, look, if they don't want to be there, don't send them. It's not an indictment on them. Some people just aren't good at it or don't enjoy it.

[01:02:55] Rob Markman: It doesn't make them less of a great artist. It doesn't make, let's not force it. Um, you know, one, one interview that I had that, that was particularly tough, um, was with Rich the Kid for XXL. I'm sorry, not for XXL, for Genius. For a show that we used to do called IRL and I look at it and I cringe, it just seemed to me that he didn't want to be there, or he didn't take it very seriously, or he wasn't prepared or willing to talk that day.

[01:03:27] Rob Markman: And, uh, it's published, it's out there and I can't even watch it. I wish I could get it back. Um, and that was an interview that he and his team asked for. Yo, we want this. And I prepared to give Rich, I thought I had prepared, prepared an interview to have a conversation with Rich the Kid that he's never had before, that could have really shed some light on who he is and how he is and how he came up and what's important to him and what makes him tick.

[01:03:57] Rob Markman: And he didn't want to answer any of the questions. He didn't want to really kind of be there a part of it. Oh man, I cringe. And it's still got a million views. I hate it.

[01:04:06] Badr: I hate it. You're like, damn it, a million people watch this shit?

[01:04:10] Rob Markman: Damn it. Yeah. But you know, I've had some really great interviews. I've been blessed.

[01:04:14] Rob Markman: Um. That same series IRL that we did with Genius was a series I created. Um, there's, there's an episode where we took 21 Savage out to a blacksmith and remade the knife that he has tattooed, the dagger that he has tattooed. Oh, that's a dope concept. Yeah. And, and this was the whole, this is before the album came out.

[01:04:33] Rob Markman: This is the whole, it's a knife era. You meme. So I'm like, Oh, let's actually make the knife. But the thing was everybody on the internet was making fun of it. But that tattoo had real significance and a connection to, uh, 21's brother who passed away. You know what I'm saying? So there was a real story behind it.

[01:04:49] Rob Markman: So I'm like, yo, let's explore this. And at the same time, the B roll of the interview was us, it was a raw piece of steel and we forged it into a replica of the dagger that he, uh, of the knife that he has tattooed on him. So I got to find this. Yeah, you know, I did an interview with Camila Cabello from Fifth Harmony after she left, um, the group and then embarking on a solo career.

[01:05:14] Rob Markman: And nobody knows that we think she's going to be a star, but it's not promised, right? You leave in a really successful group and say, Hey, I'm going solo. So now it's on you. So I took her and we did an interview and we talked about that and we were getting her cards read. To tell her future. So, you know what I'm saying?

[01:05:30] Rob Markman: Like I've done incredible, like, powerful interviews that I'm super proud of my Kendrick Lamar to pimp blot. Mm-Hmm . It's a pimp Butterfly interview. Um, is one of my favorites. Incredibly powerful. Or I carry interview is one of my favorites. Incredibly powerful. Um, so, you know, can I

[01:05:47] Badr: add one to that list? I remember kind of tuning in for this.

[01:05:50] Badr: It was on Twitter spaces, I want to say 2020. 2021. I think you jumped in or you were hosting. Uh, Alicia Keys, and then I think Jay hopped on. You facilitated that so well. We're talking, and I want to say maybe DJ Khaled was on it, or maybe that was a separate one, but the way you were facilitating both, you know, uh, putting the spotlight on Alicia Keys, I think she was, uh, dropping an album, and then Jay hopped on to support, and you know, you were juggling both really well, and giving them ample time, and I was really impressed by that.

[01:06:19] Badr: And then today I learned through this interview that, you know, you basically freestyled that, and I was like, Damn, that really kind of speaks to You know, just, you know, how, how ingrained he is that, you know, I think for anyone else, they would want plenty of prep time. You know, they would probably want to tackle that one on one, but the fact that you were able to just jump in and, you know, kind of like showcase you being a master at your craft was really impressive.

[01:06:40] Rob Markman: Yeah. Well, there were, there were two of them. So the Alicia Keys one was playing, Alicia was promoting an album. And Jay was going to jump on. I found out maybe the day before. Got it. Okay. So I had a little time to prepare because it was supposed to be me and Alicia. And they said, and a special guest. The publicist was like, you, Alicia.

[01:06:56] Rob Markman: And there's a special guest. My dumb ass. I didn't even ask who the special guest was for me. It's me and Alicia, dawg. All I heard was me and Alicia. I thought it was either going to be Swizz Beatz special. Or Mike will have produced that album for Alicia. So I thought it was going to be Mike. Well, who's my man?

[01:07:14] Rob Markman: That's easy. That's Cape for me and Alicia. I'm locked in. And then I got a call the day before and Alicia was like, yo, I just want to make sure you're prepared. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm good. And she was like, and you know who the guests, they told you about the guests. I was like, you know what? I ain't even asked.

[01:07:28] Rob Markman: I was like, I thought it was, and she was like, no, my husband is special. Yes. Yeah. He's absolutely special. But, um, hope is going to join us. And I'm like, Holy shit. And so I did have time to prepare for that one. And what I wanted to do as much as I wanted to ask about Hov's so many questions, it was Alicia Keys moment.

[01:07:49] Rob Markman: It was Alicia Keys album, and I wanted to make sure that she had space. And it didn't turn to the Jay-Z show, you know what I'm saying? Um, so, and, and that was great. And Jay, Jay dropped a lot of gems. Oh yeah.

[01:08:04] Badr: W was that the interview or was it the Khaled one where he, where, uh, you brought up the, the fact that he ghost wrote still Dre, and I think you had asked like, Hey, do you have a version of that?

[01:08:13] Badr: He was like, yeah, but that's tucked away. Which was major, I mean,

[01:08:15] Rob Markman: yeah. That, that was in the Alicia one. Okay. That wasn't in the Alicia one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think he talked about a conversation with him and Lucy and Grant. Like that was just a great episode, a great conversation with Alicia. And they were talking about independence because Alicia became independent from that.

[01:08:30] Rob Markman: And all of that was great. The Khaled one, I didn't know Jay was coming. I didn't know Jay was coming. Um, the Khaled one was, um, Lenny has hit me and said, yo, Khaled is doing the tour of the spaces. Can you moderate this with him? And I said, absolutely. Like those are my peoples. I love Khaled. Um, so I did the thing and first, and it's just me and Callie talking the first LL comes on.

[01:08:53] Rob Markman: So we're giving space to LL and I'm like, dog, this is, and I had never interviewed or spoken to L before. And I'm like, dog, this LL dog is crazy. And then Jay jumps in. I ain't know Jay was covered. And I, I, I, I freestyled that whole. Point, but at the same time trying to direct traffic and make sure cali's a part of the conversation.

[01:09:13] Rob Markman: To the point that Cali got mad at me, I saw a lot of people on Twitter, was like, why he keep asking Cali questions, Jay is there, and I'm like, like, first of all, let's be clear. And I love and I respect Jay and, and, and I believe that Jay has a respect for me and what I do. Um, through, through our interactions, that wasn't the first time.

[01:09:33] Rob Markman: That wasn't the second time that I've interviewed Jay. Um, but the whole reason I'm talking to Jay at this point is because of Khaled and Lenny S, so let's not forget what, what that is here. Let's not forget why we're here. I know when Jay comes into the room, it's a different thing, but we're going to respect DJ Khaled as well.

[01:09:53] Rob Markman: But then Khaled got, Khaled was like, no. Why, why you keep asking me questions? Jay is here. Like, I don't want to talk no more. Just you and Jay just talk. Like I was trying to be respectful. And even Gala was like, no, when Jay Z is talking, you just, you just, just get out of the way. So it was funny, but that, that, that was a freestyle.

[01:10:13] Rob Markman: That was Jay was there and just off the top of my head. It's just like, what can we talk about? And you know, it was a dope conversation. I hope before my career has ended that I could really get the proper. JZ one on one sit down with cameras. Um, I, I, I think, I mean, I have questions. I have things that I want to ask him if he's willing that he hasn't talked about.

[01:10:37] Rob Markman: I think we could cover new ground and give people a new experience, a new insight into what, um, may hold tick. But you know, if I never get that one, man, that the Cali talk, the Alicia Keys talk, the times that I've talked to him on the red carpet at MTV. And

[01:10:53] Badr: it sounds like a, yeah, like I said, those two interviews, masterful performance, man.

[01:10:58] Badr: Like I applaud you and those were fantastic. Um, is there anyone that you haven't interviewed that, that's on like your list? Like, do you have a list of like, I got to get these interviews, you know, before I, before I leave this earth, like who, who's still on that list?

[01:11:13] Rob Markman: Probably I still that J one on one interview.

[01:11:15] Rob Markman: Like that, that was one to one Jay Z interview for sure. Um, Andre 3000, I've never interviewed three stacks. I've never interviewed Eminem. Okay. Um, I've met him and him, um, on two occasions, but I've never interviewed him. Um, and then again, to the degree that he's open to the degree that he's willing to talk open and honestly, did he, I think, I think, I think I can do like in my head, like I have, I have.

[01:11:49] Rob Markman: I have a crazy Diddy. I have a crazy line of questions for Diddy.

[01:11:53] Badr: What's harder, being a journalist, on screen personality slash interviewer, being a comic book writer, or being

[01:11:59] Rob Markman: a rapper? Comic writing is probably the hardest for me now. Um, you know, there's a bit of imposter syndrome sometimes when I get into hip hop.

[01:12:09] Rob Markman: I know Uh, like the back of my hand, at comic books, I do too, but it's more from a fan's perspective. Like, I'm still kind of just getting my feet wet into writing. So probably comic books.

[01:12:20] Badr: Okay. And I guess this is a good transition to, to your music career. Cause like I said at the top, you know, you've got three full length albums.

[01:12:27] Badr: You've got a handful of singles and EPs. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but most of your, if not all your music is distributed or under the label right to dream, right? And that's your thing? Yeah, Right to Dream is my company. Because I'm noticing the chain, Right to Dream, and that's a comic book thought bubble, right?

[01:12:46] Badr: So even then, so even in your music, you were able to kind of like, you know, inject some of your, you know, your passions, your hobbies into it as well. Yeah. Most, most

[01:12:54] Rob Markman: people never, never, um, pick up on that. Um, the logo is designed by Damien Scott. I told him what I wanted and he designed it and we, we came up with it together, but yeah, right to dream because.

[01:13:09] Rob Markman: You know, it's a double entendre. Like literally like my medium is writing, whether it's writing articles, right, interviews, comic books, rhymes, right. To dream like that's how I get to these dreams is by writing them out. But also right, you have a right to dream and nobody has the right to step on your, your dreams.

[01:13:29] Rob Markman: So it's a double entendre, but you know, so often we're judged. So, so many people dream of things and don't vocalize it because they're afraid of the judgment and that's the significance of the thought bubble. The thought bubble in comics represents things that we say, but never verbalize things that we say to ourself, but never verbalize.

[01:13:47] Rob Markman: And I think every dream. Before it becomes, before you become Jay Z and everybody has this story, but it starts here. It starts with an internal conversation. You know what I'm saying? Jay Z tells the story of his uncle was like, you'll never be a million records. You'll never sell a million records. Like who do you think you are?

[01:14:03] Rob Markman: And then he goes on, you know, to become Jay Z is always going to be somebody who kind of doubts you on your way, but it starts with the fortitude and hearing what you tell yourself. So that's what right to drink represents for me. And that's the whole metaphor.

[01:14:15] Badr: That's dope. I was listening to, uh, you know, I was catching up on the music and I was listening, I think I ran Fake Chains, which I think is the latest single that you've put out with Devious Minds on production.

[01:14:25] Badr: I think I ran that back like five, six times. What are your intentions with like the music career? Is it a creative outlet for you or do you have bigger dreams? You know, considering that, you know, you're so ingrained in the culture and you've spent so much time around musicians and artists.

[01:14:39] Rob Markman: Yes. And yes, um, it, the music for me is definitely an outlet for expression.

[01:14:44] Rob Markman: Um, it is, it is the truest thing where I feel like I could totally be myself and say what I want to say. There are things that I'm comfortable saying in the music or expressing in the music that I can't say anywhere else. If I'm sitting down with Kendrick Lamar and speaking to him about Pimple Butterfly, it's not about me.

[01:15:06] Rob Markman: You know what I'm saying? It's about him. So it's me. It's storytelling, but it's about his story. Um, but I have stories I want to tell too. So it's a way to put myself front and center and express things and get things off my chest. And it's a form of therapy. Um, so first and foremost, that's what it is.

[01:15:20] Rob Markman: First and foremost, the music has already. done for me what I needed it to do. It was to be an outlet. But yes, I do have bigger dreams and bigger intentions. Like, yeah, I want the world to hear it. Of course I want, but I'm grateful for it being out and existing. And for me having the audience that I have and the people who listen, I'm grateful, but yes, I want more.

[01:15:40] Rob Markman: Um, and you know, I kind of feel like I'll get there. I, you know, this is a whole different thing, but I don't know that I might not be here. Or I might not be actively making music. I feel like when it's truly appreciated when people go back and be like, Oh shit, like he really did that. You know what I'm saying?

[01:16:00] Rob Markman: Like, I think it might take a little more time, but that's not my job right now. My job is to create and put out and, and I'm grateful doing

[01:16:06] Badr: that. Did you face any like obstacles from the industry when you decided to like, you know, put your, your music. You know, face forward for the public, you know, because I can imagine, you know, with you, you know, you brought up, for example, like, you know, your time at XXL and, you know, being accused of payola and maybe favoritism or whatnot.

[01:16:24] Badr: Like, did you face any similar obstacles when it came to, you know, stepping out as your own artist? Yeah.

[01:16:30] Rob Markman: I mean, because even when I was at XXL, I was doing music. I have music. On the blogs on two dope boys and that, right. You know, I wasn't as popular as Mickey Fax. Me and Mickey Fax actually had a song back in the day.

[01:16:42] Rob Markman: Um, but, you know, I was there, um, under a different name. And I wasn't trying to hide it, but there was definitely, you know, um, It was put to me by someone when I was working at XXL that I had to choose. Out of my music on my job because they were going to cut my job because they didn't like the way it looked it was a conflict of interest.

[01:17:04] Rob Markman: It was this. It was that. Um, so I chose my job because I had to. So, so that, that, that was 1 obstacle. And then when I was putting the music out, you know, I had people close to me, people like the story of Jay Z's uncle. You never celebrate. What are you doing? I've had people in my family and being like, nah, you shouldn't put that out.

[01:17:23] Rob Markman: I've had people who I know love me. Um, you know, rest in peace to Mac Miller. He's a friend of mine and obviously an amazing artist and somebody who I look up to and who inspired me and he's younger than me. And so I told him about my plan to put out the music. Um, I actually had a different plan back then.

[01:17:41] Rob Markman: What I was going to do was I was going to put out a book called right to dream. And then the audio version of the book was going to be music. Oh, that'd be cool. So it was going to be like this hidden thing and I was telling him the concept and he was like, yo, that's fire. And he was like, yo, I don't think you should put out the music.

[01:17:59] Rob Markman: And it wasn't that he wasn't trying to hurt me. I get it. He was just like, he just didn't want to see my thing tainted is what he was saying. He was like, yo, people respect you for that. It's just going to be a much harder role for you. People are going to be way harder for you. On you and your music because of who you are.

[01:18:19] Rob Markman: Um, and, and rest in peace to Mac when I went and I put right to dream out anyway, I had never put out the book, but I put out the first album. And when it came out, the day it came out, he said, damn, I'm glad you didn't listen to me. He was like, hey, you did it like year away. Like that's dope. You know what I'm saying?

[01:18:36] Rob Markman: So, um, there, there was opposition, uh, both, I think maybe malicious from people who didn't understand. And then there were people who love me who were kind of like, uh, I don't know, you know what I'm saying? Who I know love me. And there's no doubt that, you know, as people in my family, again, you know, me and Mac, uh, were really close friends.

[01:18:56] Rob Markman: And, and so, but, you know, I had to, I had to. I had to do it for me regardless of what the outside noise was. I think this

[01:19:03] Badr: is an applicable time to bring up, uh, this, this quote from you that I found. You say that you have this concept called the invincible dream. There's a lot of people who told me not to do it.

[01:19:13] Badr: There are plenty of people who told me that I was wasting my time listening to this music and I have preserved. If you dream it, you can get it. That is what I've learned from this. If you work hard and you dream, you can get it. There's a power within yourself. If you want it, you can get it. Do you mind building on that and specifically giving advice to people listening right now that aspire to be, you know, maybe the next Rob Markman or be in a position to be writing, you know, full time, like, do you have any advice that would have been helpful for you to hear, you know, when you first

[01:19:41] Rob Markman: started out?

[01:19:44] Rob Markman: Just keep going. You know, even with my music stuff, um, I stopped, picked it back up. You know, I had been doing music for years even before writing. I stopped, picked it back up. Probably wasted time, um, living in doubt and living in fear of what other people were saying, living in judgment and worried. Um, I think those are dream killers.

[01:20:08] Rob Markman: Um, keep going, um, give yourself grace and, and you may not be the best at it now. You know, one of the things that stops us is that, you know, we, we also like, I'm, I'm, I'm fucking dope as a rapper. Like I know it. Do I have room to grow? Like again, if the bar, my favorite is whole, if the bar is Jay Z, if the bar is Drake, do I have room to grow?

[01:20:32] Rob Markman: Do I, if the lyrical bar is Kendrick, do I have room to grow and do I have room to get better? Absolutely. But I'm fucking dope. So I'm putting it out now. Like, you know what I'm saying? And then we're going to continue to evolve. It's okay to evolve in real time. It's okay to put your stuff out. Um, tomorrow's not promised.

[01:20:51] Rob Markman: Like don't live with regret. You know, um, you just never know what's on the other side of that. Again, I haven't sold a million records. I know what my, my records mean to people. Um, you know, I, I've had people come to me and, and say, you know, I've had one person in particular say that they were on the verge of suicide until they heard a record that I wrote, and it convinced them that they had something more to live for.

[01:21:15] Rob Markman: Wow. Like, so literally if my, if my thing could save one person, like if, if it meant that much to one person, yeah. I would like a Grammy. Yeah. I would like to sell a million. But those like. I, this is tangible. Like this is somebody's life. This is our life. Um, so I would tell just keep going, just do it.

[01:21:36] Rob Markman: There's an audience out there for you. We, we, we hear some of the most terrible rappers. In the world. There's some really garbage journalists and there's space for them too. So don't be so hard on yourself. You know what I'm saying? It was some, here's some that maybe even is more relatable. The first time I took the driver's test, I failed, you know what I'm saying?

[01:22:01] Rob Markman: And I was like, damn, I'm never going to get my license. But then you kind of look, you know how many idiots have a license? I'm like, this is not unattainable. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like. Anybody can get a license. You just got to kind of position yourself. Like there's people that I know they're not better than me.

[01:22:19] Rob Markman: They're not smarter than me. They're not more well equipped to me and they got their license. So the first time I fail, you might fail. The first time is what I'm saying, but it's all right. You got to keep at it. The first time I try to get my license. I failed and I felt like shit, but then I was like, nah, dog.

[01:22:33] Rob Markman: I know I'm I could drive better than that person, man. I'm gonna go back and get my license. Go back and get your license, man. Like, you know, man, it's possible.

[01:22:43] Badr: Go back and get your li I love that. And I thought I was the only one that failed the driver's test on its first Actually, I failed If I'm being 100 percent real with y'all, I failed twice and passed it on my third time.

[01:22:53] Rob Markman: But imagine if you give up after two, you're taking the bus for the rest of your life. Exactly. Like your Uber bill is crazy. Like, like, no matter what, just keep going, man. It's like Go get your license. I

[01:23:05] Badr: love that. Rob, I feel like this is such a cliche, uh, question to ask, but I feel like I'd be missing a very easy layup if I didn't ask this, considering that you just brought up Hove as one of your favorite MCs.

[01:23:18] Badr: Who else is in your top five MCs?

[01:23:21] Rob Markman: Yeah, my top five rappers are, and these are my personal favorites, not my, because sometimes there's two lists. There's like, The objective list and the personal list. Very objective and personal, but my, our personal list is Jay Z, Nas, Big, Pac, and Scarface. The Scarface

[01:23:40] Badr: is a nice round out,

[01:23:41] Rob Markman: for sure.

[01:23:42] Rob Markman: Yeah, yeah. Scar. I mean, Scarface, I have very personal connections to his music. It came at a time in my life when I, when I really needed it. And Jay just being the ultimate, I, I, I'll tell you a quick story before I get into the Mount Rushmore about Jay or just, you know, fake, you brought up fake chains.

[01:23:58] Rob Markman: And fake chains, really for me is a song, not what it seems on the surface, but it is me stunting a little bit. The song, the hook is, I'd rather have no change than fake chain. So I'm out here, I'm at a point where I'm getting money. I don't have the biggest chain, but I'm able to ice my shit out. Custom piece, like it's mine, like.

[01:24:14] Rob Markman: But I'd rather have no, if it's not real, I don't want it. I'd rather have no chains, fake chains. But you know, this right to dream piece, when I got it, I've always wanted a Rockefeller piece. Like to me, Rockefeller has the best chain in the game. Iconic. Yeah, I'm gonna get a Rockefeller chain, I'm gonna get a Rockefeller chain, one day, somehow, someway.

[01:24:32] Rob Markman: I get to a certain point, dawg, I'm not getting a Rockefeller chain, it's not happening. But I gotta write the dream chain, it's cool. Um, I was at the whole, at the Book of Hope event, and um, and Just Blaze comes up to me. And you know, Just Blaze is a huge comic book fan, but Just Blaze comes up too. And um, he's wearing his Rockefeller chain, I'm wearing my Right to Dream chain.

[01:24:56] Rob Markman: And Just Blaze is like, yo, that's a dope chain, dawg. Like, I like that chain, like yo, and it got like a little comic book thing going on too. He got it right away. Hell yeah. Um, so just that validation for Just Blaze, somebody so instrumental with the Rockefeller and Jay Z is, is seeing that was like, that shit meant the world to me.

[01:25:14] Rob Markman: I'm like, ah, he gets it. Like, I'll never get the Rock chain, but I got the Right to Dream chain. I'm

[01:25:18] Badr: good. The listeners know you're talking to a huge J fan. I just got one question to interject. Do you got a top five J

[01:25:26] Rob Markman: songs? I've never thought about the top five Jay songs, but, um, Dead Presidents is my favorite.

[01:25:33] Rob Markman: Okay. It's a tough one. My top five. I'll give you my top five Jay songs today. Yeah. They're just coming

[01:25:41] Badr: to mind. That's all good.

[01:25:42] Rob Markman: Dead Presidents. That doesn't change. Dead Presidents, number one. Streets is watching. I've been listening to a lot of volume one lately. So Streets is watching. Oof, this is

[01:25:55] Badr: tough.

[01:25:55] Badr: It is. Because you know what's going to happen is regardless of what your answers are, when we hit stop, you're going to be like, God dammit, how could I forget that one? You know, how could I forget, can I live or

[01:26:04] Rob Markman: whatever? Yeah. What'd I say? I said, dead presidents. I said, Streets is watching. Um, PSA.

[01:26:12] Badr: Good choice.

[01:26:13] Badr: Uh.

[01:26:18] Badr: Two more. Give me two more.

[01:26:19] Rob Markman: Yeah. Um, just off of his verse, off of do it again. Oh, that's a good one. Okay. Yeah, you got a little dough That's cool with me. You got a little flow that's cool with me. None of y'all motherfuckers cool with me, rich frost minus two degrees about as That verse is so crazy. And that's just strictly off of that verse.

[01:26:40] Rob Markman: That's cra That's one I'm gonna regret, but, but that's crazy. Um, oh, and where I'm from.

[01:26:46] Badr: Solid, solid, solid. You know what? I'll give you a round of applause for taking on that challenge. Well done. Is it safe to say that Reasonable Doubt is your favorite album? No. No, really?

[01:26:59] Rob Markman: Okay. Cause I flip flop between Reasonable Doubt and

[01:27:03] Badr: Blueprint.

[01:27:04] Badr: And you know what, among any of the ones that you would want to flip flop, I think Blueprint would definitely be a great contender for Reasonable Doubt. Reasonable Doubt for me, for a lot of personal reasons, but also just cause it's a goddamn classic. And Brooklyn Finest is like, honestly, one of my all time favorite hip hop songs

[01:27:20] Rob Markman: ever.

[01:27:21] Rob Markman: Wait, no, okay. We're gonna have to go back. I'm doing this five again. Hold up. I'm doing, I'm doing Dead Presidents, right? I'm doing Streets Is Watching. Okay. I'm doing PSA. Okay. I'm doing Brooklyn's Finest. I'm doing Where I'm From. All

[01:27:34] Badr: right. Solid. Solid. I'm glad, I'm glad I got the help a little bit.

[01:27:39] Rob Markman: You're right.

[01:27:40] Rob Markman: I stole that one from you.

[01:27:41] Badr: All right, now shifting back to comic books, when you think of your all time favorite comic book artists, and if you had to make a Mount Rushmore, which is only four, but if you got five, feel free to give me five, what comic artists are in your Mount Rushmore?

[01:27:54] Rob Markman: Uh, Tom McFarlane, Jim Lee.

[01:28:00] Rob Markman: I'm going Damien Scott. Got a rep for my boy. Who's in that fourth spot? Wow. This is tough. Tommy Father, Jim Lee, Damien Scott. And, um, I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick somebody and then I'm gonna forget somebody. But, uh, right now I'm gonna go with, um, Mark Silvestri.

[01:28:24] Badr: Nice. Mark Silvestri is a quintessential Wolverine artist for me.

[01:28:29] Badr: So like, when I think about Wolverine, it's him, it's either him or Jim Lee, but. His X Men run, uh, when they were in like, uh, Australia and stuff is, is iconic. Solid pics. Rob, I feel like I, I've been extremely fortunate to have so much of your time. Honestly, I've got a ton of other questions I could ask. Um, I guess I got one more question just to like link back to what you got currently going on.

[01:28:50] Badr: So this Flatbush Zombies 3001, a prequel Odyssey, you're doing a signing for that. December 2nd at Bulletproof Comics in Brooklyn. Uh, do you want to speak just quickly about Flatb the, the, this comic book? I know it's like a prequel to the, the same group's debut album. Like, is the book kind of essentially about their origin or, or what can you talk about?

[01:29:09] Badr: Yeah,

[01:29:09] Rob Markman: no, well, you know, with the book, the whole thing about the album stemmed from the album cover from the 2001 album cover, um, drawn by Nakamura. They, they were presented almost as superhero. They were presented as superheroes, not almost as superheroes, as superheroes on the album cover. Um, so it was really taking that image and saying, well, how did they get these powers?

[01:29:31] Rob Markman: Who are these, these, these, you know, um, you know, who's Mech, who's Eric, who's Juice? Like how did they get to this point where they had these powers? So we built a story around that and censored it in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I'm from Flatbush, Brooklyn. Um, And so we made it a real community based story, um, and sensitive, you know, one of the highlights every year that that happens in our community in our borough is the West Indian Day parade.

[01:29:56] Rob Markman: Flatbush is a heavy, heavy West Indian Day as a heavy, heavy West Indian neighborhood. Um, where I grew up, where the zombies grew up and, you know, the night before the parade is, is, is an event juve, which lasts through the night. So the whole story kind of takes place and unfolds the night of juve and the final battle happens.

[01:30:17] Rob Markman: During the West Indian Day Parade, um, or on Labor Day and within the comic, you know, we explain how they got this, their powers. And, um, we even have Bulletproof comic where we're doing the signing. Hank, who is the owner is actually a character in the novel and what the zombies actually hide out and.

[01:30:38] Rob Markman: Learn about their powers is in the back room in the comic shop. If you've been, if you know about Bulletproof, they have different rooms and stuff like that. So, uh, wrote Hank and wrote Bulletproof into the story because that's such a staple of the community. It was a community based story. Um, it was written by me.

[01:30:54] Rob Markman: It was illustrated by JJ Lopez, um, who will also be at the signing. And then we're doing a re release with a variant cover of Bulletproof exclusive with a cover by Damian Scott, who is also from Flatbush. And on December 2nd, um, myself, Damien, all three of the Flatbush Zombies, Mech, Juice, Eric, and JJ Lopez will all be at the comic book store signing.

[01:31:16] Rob Markman: And it is a CGC event. So I think you'll be able to send your books off to CGC and get them graded.

[01:31:22] Badr: So look, if you are in the area, there's no reason for you not to attend. And if you do attend, send me, send me a pic or I won't be able to, but if you're in the area, please attend. Uh, Rob, this has been fantastic.

[01:31:34] Badr: I'm going to have links to your socials and website in the show notes. But is there anything that you want to leave off with? Do you have anything to plug or share to the listeners before

[01:31:43] Rob Markman: we sign off? Nah, I'm not so much of a self promoter. Like it's just, if you follow me on socials, you'll be able to keep up.

[01:31:51] Rob Markman: But, you know, um, this is a culture. This is something that I love deeply. Like, you know, um. Comics is a passion of mine. It brings me peace when the day gets stressful. Like I'm sitting in my office now. You can't see on the other side of this is my whole comic collections. I got some slabs hanging on the wall whenever I'm stressed or whatever.

[01:32:10] Rob Markman: Like I could kind of just look around and present peace and comfort. So, um, to be a part of this was super dope to be a part of your platform. Um, I'm very grateful.

[01:32:18] Badr: Man, much appreciated. Look, if you ever have any comic projects in the future, you know, you've got the open door, open door policy for you.

[01:32:24] Badr: Feel free to come back, um, and be prepared for some more, uh, Jay, Jay Z trivia in question.

[01:32:29] Rob Markman: Nah, that's love. Thank you.