#666 - An Interview with Christopher Priest about Vampirella, Superman, and Faith - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 418

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Yo, Shortbox Nation, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for joining us. And if it's your first time tuning in, welcome to the Shortbox Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations and interviews about comic books and pop culture inspired by comics. This is episode 418. My name is Badr, if we haven't met before.

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And for the OG, yo, just in case those are new listeners, you know? I haven't met them yet, yo, welcome to the show, I'm Badr, you're your host, I'm sure there's a few people that are like- If I haven't followed your kids home from school yet? God. All right, we're starting off terrible, right? Considering the guests we got, we're starting off terrible. For my OG listeners, you might recognize the voice to my left, camera right.

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And it's one that I'm excited to have back on the show. He's joining me for the ride. It's my man, Cesar Cordero. Look, buddy, it's not about me this episode. I'm excited about who we're talking about. Who are we talking about today? Well, really quick, I want to say it's never about you. OK. So just setting the bar there, just a reminder. Classic. There's the friendship. But you know what? Let's go ahead and welcome our guest of honor today. He's the highly acclaimed writer of titles such as Conan the Barbarian, Black Panther, Deathstroke, Justice League. And most recently, he's been at the helm writing for comics most iconic.

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an original bad girl, Vampirella. If you haven't put the pieces together, or if you press play on this episode and you didn't notice the title of this episode, I'm talking about the distinguished Christopher Priest. He's on the show today to talk about a mind-bending new Vampirella story that will celebrate the beginning of Vampy's sixth decade in comics, which launches with the landmark issue, issue 666. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. Give him that riff, see? That's all I got.

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of it I see absolute horror. Vampirella issue 666 is in shops this Valentine's Day, which I think is very cute, right? It's very, very, very heartwarming. Outstanding. So the same day that this episode drops, you can go into your local comic shop right now and pick up issue 666, a brand, a start of a brand new story arc as Dynamite Entertainment leads Vampirella onto the road to 700. Shorebox Nation, let's give it up for the man, the myth, the legend himself, Christopher Priest.

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Yeah, it's largely this. And you left out Superman. I mean, I know, you know, we want to talk about Vampirella, but, uh, you know, go run out and buy Superman lost. That's, that's, that's on sale now. We're just wrapping up that series. I'm very proud of it. We worked really hard on it. And, uh, you know, it's, it's like, I've waited 45 years to, to, to finally, you know, finally, you know, dad gave me the keys to the car and said, okay, all right, here, here you go, son. Take the caddy around the block here. And, and, uh,

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We trust you with our with our marquee character. Now, mind you, Marvel trusted me with Spider-Man, their marquee character, 40 years ago. So thanks, DC, for catching up. You know, here we are. Here we are. Bruce, I was going to save this question for when we were getting like sentimental. We were getting deep into the interview. But if you're bringing up Superman, I know how long you've been waiting to, you know, to use your analogy, get the keys to the car.

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How do you feel about your career right now and where you're at, knowing that you're wrapping up a Superman series? There's a lot of attention and praise about all of your iconic prior work, and now you're getting to lead such an iconic character like Vampirilla into a new milestone. How are you feeling about your career? Well, I guess I feel pretty good about it. It's this weird bifurcation where I'll go to these shows and I'll find so much love and friendship

06:44
Like I was at C2E2 a couple years ago and the line to see me was like wrapping around the corner and extending down the hall and it's the big floor, down across the floor. So they sent the blue shirts out with the little bank stanchions, like the little, excuse me, pardon me, they're setting these things up.

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And I can't believe they're doing that. So I get up from around the table and I look around the corner, I see all these people lined up back there, you know, and I go, Are you sure you're in the right line? You know, I mean, I'm not Scott Snyder. I'm really not, you know. So it's this weird second act, you know, you know, in career wise. On the flip side, though, you know, when I'm dealing with the publishers.

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It's just kind of like, eh, it's the old guy. So it's a weird dichotomy. So I don't really know what to think. But certainly I'm grateful for the second act. Because as you may or may not know, I stepped away. Or actually, I was catapulted away from comics for almost a decade.

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where I was writing Captain America and the Falcon for Marvel. And then they ended the Marvel Knights Captain America book. So they were going to just have one Captain America book. And I thought that Joe Bennett and I were going to move on and be the one solo cat book. Because I felt like we had done a good job with Captain America and the Falcon. I thought we had certainly earned our shot. And we didn't get it. They gave it to Ed Brubaker. No offense to Ed.

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a great writer, they did a terrific job with that book. But I felt like Joe and I had earned that shot. And then when it didn't happen, you know, the suggestion that came from Marvel, like, well, hey, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna take Captain America out of the book and relaunch it as the Falcon. And I felt like I was being demoted. And I felt like, you know, the message it was sending me was that, well, I'm not good enough for prime time.

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I could no longer be trusted with the marquee characters. So dad's taking the keys back, whatever the metaphor is. And so I just politely said thank you, but no thank you. And I went off and I did other things. And yes, there are other things to do outside of comics. And for about a decade, every 18 months, I'd get an offer from Marvel or DC. But it was always to write African Panda Boy, or something like that.

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It was inevitably, you know, black Goliath or black something or, you know, medium brown tempo, whatever, you know, and I would always just kind of go, no, you know, and then I would go, well, what about Green Lantern? I like Green Lantern. He's green. I could do that. Right. You know, and then they go, well, maybe not. So, you know, it really wasn't until 2017 when DC offered me Deathstroke. And my first question right out the box was, is he black? You know, because they had been like,

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running a few of their characters through the car wash, you know, and through the paint shop, you know, I was like, well, is he black? And he went, no, he's still, you know, Slade Wilson. And I went, uh-huh. I don't know. Okay, I'm listening, you know, and we kind of, you know, got into that. And, and all of a sudden I started reading, like in a trade press, you know, priest is back. And I'm like, well, I never really went anywhere. You know, the business went away from me where they just started like going, well, you know, he's the guy who writes the black characters.

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So to be in the driver's seat with the whitest character of them all, and the one who started it all, with the guy in the red cape, I felt like, well, here, finally, we're back to being, I don't want to say color blind, but having color have less influence about where you slide. I just don't believe in this idea of

10:57
You know, so if you have a, you know, a Japanese lesbian samurai, you have to find a Japanese lesbian samurai to write her. You know, that I should be limited by, you know, by the characteristics, by my individual characteristics, I should be able to, as long as I'm the master of this particular universe, I feel like I should be qualified to write Wonder Woman.

11:25
or Batman or Spider-Man or whatever, or Spider-Ham, the pig guy, you know, whatever you got lying around, you know, I really feel like a writer writes. And I think we're finally getting back to that where, you know, women are qualified to write male characters and, you know, LGBTQ writers are qualified to write straight characters and vice versa. We really shouldn't be in this business of just limiting people's horizons based on, you know, dumb criteria.

11:54
Speaking on that same sort of, I guess, current, a lot of characters come with baggage, right? What was it like writing for Supes? I mean, that character has a lot of history and sometimes baggage and different people have either projected that onto the character. What was it like for you, you know, getting the keys to the big boy in blue, you know? What's it like? Well, it was terrifying on two different levels. One is because of all the history, but I didn't, I-

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My story is out of continuity, so I don't have to worry about whatever they're doing. So thank God for that. But I also have Mike Carlin's phone number. Mike Carlin used to be the editor-in-chief of DC, but before that he was maybe one of the best Superman editors ever. And I helped get him his first job in comics. So Larry Hama and I recommended him.

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his first job in comics back when he was working at the rug factory. So, Mike Carlin is kind of the unsung hero of Superman Lost. He was the kind of the guy behind the scenes who I would spend literally hours on the phone with. And then of course, Mark Waid. I mean, that's kind of a rule in comics. When you get stuck, call Mark Waid. Mark knows everything.

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And I'd be, pardon the pun, I would be lost without those guys. So having that guidance. But the other side of the coin of me being frightened is that I'm me. And what that means is I tend to be a little bit subversive, which is why people, I think some editors kind of shy away from me because a lot of mainstream comics

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are constructed in a way that I think is a little on the end. And again, I don't want to get myself in trouble, but it's YouTube. Yeah, yeah, you're fine. I feel like a lot of mainstream comics are constructed in kind of a condescending and juvenile way, where it's like plot device, a plot device B. And here's our A story and our B story. And here's our villain of the month. And it's very formulaic, you know, and like so these guys are going to rob the bank and they all dress alike. They all have like matching outfit.

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Who stops by the tailor before they rob a bank? And so on and so forth. And then when you give the same job to a priest, I try to take the characters and I just try to go, number one, how do I put this character in a headlock? And number two, what is it that we haven't seen before? And what kind of ethical dilemma or ethical crises can I introduce and put these characters into?

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So that's kind of, you know, when I got my hands on Superman, that was kind of, you know, you know, my thing there. And you know, we got to do some things in that book that had never been done before, like Lois Lane and Superman, they have a knockdown drag out fight. I've never seen Lois and Superman have a fight before. And I thought that was ridiculous. You know, all married people, or all people married or not, anyone in any relationship, sooner or later, they're going to have some sort of disagreement, you know, and it's like, you know, instead of them.

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you know, instead of the thing punching the Hulk, it's Lois and Superman going at it for four pages. And it's something we've never seen before. And there's ethical dilemmas that we haven't seen before in this book. And, you know, and that makes me nervous because, you know, it's so out of the, out of step with the mainstream of how the comic book narrative in mainstream comics. And I know that,

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it's going to rankle some people to see, you know, these kind of questions or just have these kind of issues brought to such an iconic character. And yet they let me get away with it. So kudos to DC. Chris, I feel like we've hit the ground running for this interview. And I love that. But I want to take a quick zoom out and ask, you're currently still living in Colorado, right? In Denver, Colorado? I am in an undisclosed location.

16:05
Watchtower, outer space. I guess last I heard what was Denver, Colorado and- Colorado Springs, actually. I ask that because last year I got to cross something off my comic book bucket list. I was in Denver and I got a chance for a conference and I had the chance to go to what many would deem a comic book holy place and that was Mile High Comic Books. And I was curious from a established comic book writer's perspective, what is the comic scene like?

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in Denver through your eyes? Like if I was to make another trip out there, is there other shops or things I could do in that kind of nerdy comic book realm? How was, I guess long story short, yeah, how's the comic book scene in Colorado?

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18:04
I couldn't tell you, I really wouldn't know. I try to sort of make it my business to kind of fly under the radar wherever I happen to live. So I would visit comic shops from time to time, but I would just be any other, you know, a shopper in there, you know, you know, minding my business. I don't like go to the counter and go, hi, I'm Christopher Priest. You know, I don't do stuff like that.

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Although there's been times when I've gone to comic shops and I've gone to the counter with like a half dozen copies of the same comic book. And then I hand them my credit card that says Christopher Brees. And whoever's at the counter, they don't seem to make the connection. And no one ever asked me, well, why do you want six copies of the same? But by and large, I really have, like I would not do conventions in Colorado Springs.

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I only recently started doing appearances in Denver, mainly because when I'm going to Walmart I don't want people to recognize me and go, hey, you're Chris LaPriese, let's talk about Spider-Man. I know. You feel like, I'm just trying to get some cereal, bro. And it's happened to me. It's happened to me where somebody recognized me. And this is a woman, she saw me at a traffic light and I was going to Home Depot and I was going to Lowe's.

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lowest home improvement. I was going to buy, you know, I know a toilet seat, whatever it was, you know, and, uh, and she saw me in the traffic light and she followed me into the parking lot, into the store. And she comes up to me breathless, you know, while I'm, you know, in the toilet seat aisle, wherever I am, you know, it's just like, ah, you're going to a priest. I'm like, Oh dear God, you know, so yeah. So unfortunately I, I, I wasn't really plugged in, you know, not really plugged into the local scene. I, I've been

19:56
I'm a disappointment to everyone. I'm sorry. Well, Priest, it's actually glad you mentioned that. We have this lady right back here.

20:04
Eunice, why don't you come on out? Yeah. What toilet sheet did you go for? I don't know why she's so upset. I want the ones that slowly. Slowly descending. A man of culture, I see. Well, see, the thing about it is. This is great. This is why people turn into the show. This is the best interview ever. Yeah, this is setting a new bar. And men being, not only do we pee standing up, but we are intrinsically lazy. So being able to just like.

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do your business in the, like it's two o'clock in the morning, you know, and I'm half awake as it is, you do whatever it is you get in there to do. And then just swat the thing and walk away and it doesn't slam and it'll close melodically on its own. And I went, that's what I want. But I want to see, I want to see you do a segue after that statement. Let's see if you can do it. Let's see if you can do it. Can you land this? Can you land this? I think I got it. Speaking of Deadpool, uh, you mentioned, uh, comic conventions and

21:02
My understanding is that you were given the opportunity to write Vampirella back in 2018. You told the story on another interview that CEO and publisher of Dynamite Entertainment, Nick Barucci, I think that's how you say it. Barucci. Personally drove five hours to Mohegan Sun in Connecticut, I believe, to, in your words, in your words, to ambush you.

21:27
about taking on Vampirella and you mentioned being hesitant at first. I don't want to tell the story and then you tell your story. You know, I'll toss it to you. That's it. You know, Nick had been calling. He had been writing. I had been getting emails and, and, and I, I, I'm just, uh, the things that you gentlemen need to know about me is I have no ambition whatsoever. I have Yes. Well, well, that's not really ambition. That's just, you know, me. Look at him. Humble. You know,

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And I've kind of drifted through much of my career where people come to me and say, hey, do you want to write Banana Man? And I go, yeah, okay. So I've been really blessed to not have to spend a whole lot of time hunting for work. The work usually kind of hunts me. So here I was being hunted for Vampirella and it was kind of like this echo or this noise in the back of my head because I couldn't imagine, what, Vampirella, who?

22:26
You know, I mean, I knew who the character was, but really, me, Vampirella? So I don't know. It just kept slipping off of my radar. And it was just, I think it was an episode of Seinfeld, where Seinfeld, he goes to confession at a Catholic church. And he's complaining about his dentist, who has

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converted to Judaism, and he's making all these Jewish jokes. And this offends you as a Jewish person, Jerry? No, it offends me as a comedian. Comedian. You know, and so we finished that bit with the priest, and he opens the door, and there's George Costanza, waiting for him outside the door, and he's like, how did you know I was here? And that's how I felt about Borucci. We're like, I literally turned around, and here's Nick Borucci, and I'm like, oh my God, and he's still talking about Van Perella.

23:20
So I think that was, you know, the moment where I said, okay, let me give this some serious thought. And I think with every character, like with Deathstroke, for example, I knew, I know, I know Marv Wolfman. I was his intern when I was, you know, 17 years old. Wow. Xeroxing pages from Tomb of Dracula, Gene Colen, pencil art, over and over and over again.

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You know, so when they offered me Deathstroke, my first thought was Marv, you know, number one, I don't want to offend Marv, anything that I do, but two, I'm going, well, you know.

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Can I dig around inside that character's head and pull something out that interests me or pursue something that interests me that hasn't been pursued quite, you know, like based on what I've read of Deathstroke and what I know about that character, what is left undone or what is left untouched? So I think once Nick made that effort to come up to the casino, you know, I said, okay, I need to sort of apply the same brain power to Vampirella.

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whom I've only written once or twice before as kind of one-offs, but there really wasn't much there. Vampirella has always been sort of this empty character where writers are working the suit, wearing this sling bikini and they're working the suit. And it's like, you know, blood and fangs and TNA and let's go, you know. And there's a formula, you know, and I went, that doesn't interest me. You know, what do I know about this woman? And it turns out that, you know, it was pretty much a blank slate. Like there any number of writers who have written

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Vampirella and they've been given kind of a free hand to create their own vision of the character And Nick gave me, you know, pretty much carte blanche to kind of create the priest verse So although there are other Vampirella books written by other writers the books that I write that has Vampirella in them They all have their own internal continuity and their own unique thing. They all exist within our corner of the dynamite

25:35
So that's kind of how that happened. And once I was able to kind of go to take it seriously, not that, I mean, obviously the offer was serious, but once I was able to take the character seriously, and would I be, you know, given free range to fully explore, you know, what if there really was this person who was marooned here on our planet, and it is kind of new to our culture.

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And it's a timeless story of someone who just wants to go home, you know, and what would that person be like and what were the implications of that and so forth. And that's when the wheels started spinning and that's when we started our work together. Noam Ingold Without getting too serious, but we're in it now. We're in it now, Priest, let's do it. So I went to a private Christian college and I've done my fair share of study regarding hermeneutics and homiletics and I hold a reverence for Scripture.

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And I'm not saying that, you know, you're trying to preach with any of your stuff, but that's not stopping me from shouting down your work with amens and preaches. Okay. I'll just say that. So, and while reading of all things, Vampirella. You're going to hell for reading Vampirella. You know what I mean? So I was pleasantly surprised. So what is your favorite thing about that character? Like what's the most important thing to remember when you write for someone like Vampirella? She's such an iconic and beloved character.

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All right, let's put a pin in that. Let's dabble back to the Christianity thing. Sure, sure. For most people who are even remotely familiar with me, you will know that I am an ordained former pastor. I pastored to churches in Colorado and yada, yada, yada. And I had an online ministry and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know? So every now and then I get to sort of hang up, hang up my minister shingle, like in Superman Lost.

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the so that's 10 issues. So issue number nine, Lex Luthor is like taunting Lois Lane, you know, saying, well, you know, I'm mislead, you know, because they're worried about Superman is I won't get into what the reasons are, but she's but but Luther gives gives Lois a speech about faith, you know, and he's like, you know, I never really thought much about faith, but you know, it's a good story. You know, it's like there's these two guys and they're walking down the road, and they're talking about this mysterious godlike creature.

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And then a third guy joins them, you know, and walks along with them, but he doesn't allow them to see his face. The Emmaus walk. Right. You know, and that's the title of the story, it's Emmaus. You know, and Luther is like, you know, and he's going on and on about this godlike creature, and he's making a reference to Superman, obviously. You know, so later in the story, Lois, you know, spoiler alert, she beats Luther at his own game because she's Lois Lane after all.

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You know, she beats, and then she like, you know, back claps him on his story. He goes, you know, Luther, you know, those two guys walking on the road, you know, the reason why, you know, the godlike creature didn't allow them to see his face is because they didn't believe. And she looks Luther dead in the eye, he goes, I believe Luther, you know, and that's why I beat you at whatever this game is, whatever that kind of thing. You know, so every now and then when, you know,

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I don't write the story to serve my particular, you know, faith-based... Sorry? They wouldn't be good if that was what you were doing. My praise to you is essentially when I read your stuff, I'm not necessarily looking for it and every now and then there'll be something subtle and you kind of have to know the reference, but it will be something to the effect of, well, you know, that's not what this is, you know.

29:30
There are messages of morality and love and mercy in the most unexpected places, and they're incredibly welcome. And at the same time, I have never felt more sympathy for a character like Deathstroke, who is a statutory rapist and a murderer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, poor Deathstroke. But on the other hand, but on the other hand, my favorite issue of Deathstroke is issue number 20.

29:57
And issue number 20 of Deathstroke, he is trying to recruit Power Girl, the Black Power Girl, Tanya, what's her name? You know, he's trying to recruit her because he's putting together his own Teen Titans. I can do it better. You know, I'll put together my own group of heroes by blackmailing them and twisting their arms and murder. That's how he puts together his team of heroes. But anyway, so he's trying to blackmail her. Now, Tanya, as I wrote her, I wrote her as a born again Christian. Interesting. So Deathstroke goes to her house.

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knocks on her door and he starts quoting scripture to her to convince her to join his team. You know, and she's like, stop that, stop that. And he's like, you know, well, you know, he said, like, you know, that's what's to look up. I'm going to stop you right here. Okay. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. And Tommy's like, what are you talking about? Okay. You know, once once I have, you know, confessed and once I have asked for your forgiveness, you have to forgive me.

30:50
Those are the rules, you know, and she goes the rules because yeah, that's what makes you born again people so much fun. You know, it's like, you know, you can be so easily, they're like Klingons. You're like a Klingon. The way to manipulate a Klingon is through their sense of honor. You know, so issue number 20, the entire issue is basically written in King James scripture. It's an incredibly emotional issue. That's just me laying it on with a troll, you know, and I just figured it was going to come.

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boomeranging back from the executives with red marks all over it. You can't say that. And the fact that DC published it, I was so happy about it that I emailed Rich Johnston.

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You know, like I couldn't believe that they approved it. And it came out, I'm holding this thing in my hand. Oh my God. So I emailed Rich Johnson and I wrote this really glowing sort of love letter to DC about, oh, I love DC and here's a song about DC all day long, DC. We love you, DC, Dan DiDio. Right, yeah, so it was this glowing thing, right? And I sent it to Rich Johnson, Rich Johnson, of course, he immediately uploads it to Leading Cool, so it's right up there, you know? And now it's Saturday morning.

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and the phone rings and it's Bob Harris and I go I've known Bob Harris for 30 years I've never gotten a call from Bob Harris at eight o'clock on a Saturday morning and I'm like what's blown up or on fire what did I do you know and Bob and Dan they're up in arms and how dare you talk to Rich Johnson without talking to us and you know and I went well what's the big deal you know I said

32:27
The thing was completely positive and glowing, you know, praise for your company, you know, and you're pissed at me about it because I didn't go through their apparatus, their, you know, but at any rate, I was really pleased that they, you know, let me segue one more, I'm sorry, I'm running my mouth, but let's get back to Nick Barucci, okay? So we're at the casino. And I said, okay, my big hangup with writing Vampirella was not necessarily the costume

32:57
revealing stuff in music videos these days. My hang up was that at some point, they had moved the character away from her science fiction origins and made it more occult based. And now she's hanging out with demons, and she's talking to the devil, and all sort of stuff. And I went, well, first of all, that's really not the character. You go all the way back to the war and stuff. You go all the way back to the origin of this character.

33:24
It was a, it was a science fiction spoof. It was Barbarella with fangs. Right. You know, Dracula and all that stuff. She's from Dracula on it was a spoof, you know? So I told Nick, I said, look, I'm just not comfortable, uh, writing the devil. Um, I don't like. You'd like it when they make the devil, a cartoon character or a comic book character, and it's not that I'm, you know, that I'm anti-devils. Don't get me wrong. If you like the devil, that's fine with me. Um,

33:54
It's just that it's bad theology that it's not, you know, because, you know, compagriders tend to write the devil like he's Lex Luthor and like, you know, like the devil is the counterpart to God. So you have the Allfather and you have Darkseid and like the devil is this and God is that, you know. And I want, have you ever read a Bible? Have you ever looked, have you ever cracked a, you know, have you ever, you know, if you, you know, read any theology text, it just, you know, the devil was.

34:23
What's upon a time he was his angel and the angel got so full of himself and God smacked him around and you know, but you know, in terms of the scale of their power, you know, the devil is not the equal of God could never be the equal of God. The creation could never be the equal of the Creator. You know, it's ridiculous. So I won't write that sort of Christian mythology that because that that all it does is perpetuate stupid stuff that the Christians, you know, tell their kids at bedtime, you know, the devil's gonna get you.

34:52
You know, so I said, look, you know, and, you know, you know, if I have to write about the devil or, you know, I want to be allowed to write about God because most publishers are just, any publisher will let you write anything you want about the devil, but as soon as you start writing about God, they get nervous because God means different things to different people and they don't want to offend anybody. So they get really nervous about, you know, about the God stuff.

35:21
But I said, look, you know, if I could be allowed to write about God, then I'm a lot more that gets me closer to being in on this thing. And Nick didn't hesitate. He was like, sure, you know, and, you know, there have been issues of Vampirella, several of them, you know, where I've laid it really on. There was one issue, I think issue eight, where she's talking to Father Gutierrez and Gutierrez is lecturing Vampirella.

35:48
on forgiveness and so forth. And we're laying that on the trial. And then she has this lesbian love interest named Victory. And Vampirella's mother sends Victory undercover at a Christian school to spy on them, because she's up to some nefarious stuff for this Christian school. So Victory's undercover as a spy working in the office at this Christian school. But the longer she's there, she's

36:18
she ends up having a genuine encounter with Jesus Christ. Okay, so now victory accepts, you know, the idea accepts Christ as her savior, but now she's afraid to come out with it because then all her vampire friends are gonna try to eat her or something, you know? So she's like the secret, like many of us are, are this undercover Christian, you know?

36:40
And these are kind of concepts that fascinate me, not because I'm trying to push religion on people, but because it just fascinates me, the idea of this pseudo vampiric character having this relationship with Christ that is now causing this enormous conflict in her life and forcing her to grow and make choices and become a better person. I think it's interesting for the character. It's an interesting narrative to follow. It's something we haven't seen before, a Christian vampire.

37:08
Come on, fellas, come on, are you with me? You know, so I like the freedom that Dynamite affords and that to date, they really haven't smacked my hand much. You know? Well, now you gotta write a song about them. Yeah. Dynamite.

37:27
like dynamite. Jermaine Jackson already has a song called Dynamite. We could just play that. I mean, we could do it. You're right. We could do it. Any excuse to play Jermaine Jackson on this? Take it easy. That's right. Fair use. You brought up an issue of Vampirella. And I don't know if our listeners got what I said in the intro that with the launch of issue 666, it's a return back to Vampirella's legacy numbering.

37:56
It's not so much, I guess maybe what I want to emphasize is that you've been writing Vampirella since 2019. That includes the 25 issues of the main series. I think you've written two spin-off limited runs, Vampirella, Dracula, Unholy, Rage, and what was the third one? Vampirella, year one. Year one, okay. That's when she's a kid and she sneaks a cow onto the subway.

38:21
hands down favorite scene in Vampirella is kid Vampirella H12 sneaking a cow onto a subway. Yeah, I don't think I would ever guess that sentence in my lifetime, but now I've got to check it out. So I guess what I would- Because she's trying to feed the homeless people on the surface world, but go ahead. With dynamite clearly really pushing this as a good jumping on point, a return to the legacy numbering, the road to 700 starts now. I'm curious from your perspective,

38:51
With this new campaign going on, does it do anything for you? Like, does it give you a second win or is it just like business as normal? Like, I guess does the numbering mean anything to you? I mean, clearly it's it's, you know, it's she's almost a 700, you know, almost 60 years of publication. Like, what does that mean for you as from a writer perspective? Well, a bunch of things. Well, first of all, it's flattering that they want me to stick around. I figured by now I would have gotten Das Boot.

39:20
You know, I also appreciate that one of your characters name is Jurgen and the Josh Booth reference. I was like, yeah, Jurgen Pratsch now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's nice to be wanted. And, and, you know, but in this atmosphere, this publishing atmosphere, like once upon a time, you know, when we, you know, before you guys were born, back when I was young, people stayed on comic books until they literally passed away.

39:49
You know, Dick Dillon drew Justice League, and I think I believe it was right up until the time that he left us. You know, and people, you know, had very long runs, you know, and were identified, you know, Irv Novik with the Flash and Batman and so forth. You know, and nowadays people are just constantly either being, they're either moving on for greener pastures or being pushed off because the sales are, well, now we lost a couple of sales. So let's.

40:18
retool and do a new number one. So I'm just, first of all, first and foremost, flattered to be asked to stick around. Beyond that, the numbering, it gives us a chance to do a big promotional push, which is why the three of us are sitting here for the book and to gain the attention. What I wanted to do editorially or narratively for 666,

40:44
was I wanted to, and I had planned to do this, I didn't know what number they were gonna give it before they came up with this numbering idea. What I wanted to do was I wanted to go all the way back to the beginning, back to where artist Ergun Gunduz and I arrived on the book. So if you go all the way back to our volume five, issue one, and our take on Vampirella, and now we get to do.

41:13
The Jetsons theme song. I don't know, you may be too young to remember the cartoon, The Jetsons or the themes. Do you know the theme song to The Jetsons? It's like, meet George Jetson, Jane, his wife, right? Their boy, Elroy, daughter, Judy. So, you know, in 60 seconds, this brilliant, brilliant theme song introduces the premise of the series, the cast of the series.

41:38
and wheels out each cast character individually where they all come on stage, take a bow and they do something idiosyncratic of their and unique to their character that says something about their character, including the dog Astro, right? And off we go. So, with Vampirella 666 gets you like, Vampirella, you know, her lesbian friend victory.

42:02
Benny the Witch, Benny the Witch, you know, and, you know, and people will listen to this going, who's Benny the Witch and who's, who's victory? And I go, get 666 and you'll find out because we are, we are going back to literally, you know, the first pages that our team ever did. And what happens is the currently shipping mini-series, this mini-series is wrapping up now, it's called Rage. Vampirra, Dracula, Rage.

42:31
And Vampirella has had a baby and Dracula has this kind of cult following. They're like vampire maga, you know, and they're really, really into Dracula. And so they stole Vampirella's baby thinking it would please Dracula somehow. But it really pissed off Vampirella. So hence rage. So she's pretty upset about it and she's tracking down these people. She's going to kill.

42:59
every last one of them. And that's kind of the premise with Rage. So at the end of Rage, something happens that I won't say because it'll spoil it, but something happens at the end of Rage where we kind of wipe the slate clean. And the next thing you will see will be Vampirella666 and she wakes up in her apartment and we're back to square one in terms of when our team, our creative vision first arrived on this book.

43:27
And it's a great jumping on point for new readers because we get the Jetsons song. We get to meet all these people for the first time. And they're having these discussions. And you can see, blah, blah, blah, who Benny is, and who this is, and blah, blah, blah, and who the mom. And here's the cast of characters. And here's how the premise works. Now, if you have been a Vampirella reader, if you already read those early issues, if you're familiar with the cast and with the premise of the book, then when you read 666,

43:57
you will notice immediately that none of this makes any sense. That something is really, really wrong and really funny at the same time. You know, so new readers, they won't get the jokes. Readers who have been reading all along, they will find it hilarious because they'll be like, wait a minute, what the hell happened? You know, they will see the Easter eggs. They will get the gags. They will understand, you know, 666 is really funny.

44:25
You may not think so because you've never read Vampirella before. So you don't know these characters and you don't know how all of this is wrong. And and and and, you know, and that that's the premise of this new story arc that Vampirella's world has been turned upside down. She doesn't realize it's been turned up upside down, but she slowly begins to realize it. And, you know, her choice is, you know, now do I do something about it or not? Because for me to do something about it, so for me to fix this

44:55
means that some of these people who are now running around in a strip, they're dead. They died years ago. They shouldn't be walking. They shouldn't be in 666. They shouldn't be up and running. So her personal conflict builds over the course of the arc of the story where she's the only one who can make things right, but the price of making things right is losing these precious things that she's finally gotten back, that she had lost before, and she's managed to get back. So will she or won't she?

45:25
As of as now while we sit, I don't know the answer to that question. We're still we're still writing. We're still doing that. I'm sold priest. I'm sold priest selling it here. I guess with that said, really quick, I don't mean to put you on the hot seat. Is it safe to assume that are you going to be down for the ride as you know, to 700? I mean, is that a safe assumption? I mean, how far out do you see your time with Vampirella? I mean, you know, like I said earlier, you're five years in, you know, like

45:51
You're almost to the, you know, this major milestone for 700 and, you know, 60 years of publishing. I mean, how are you feeling future wise? Well, I'll put it to you this way. There's so much untapped ground with Vampirella, you know, like, like I've been talking about doing like a mini series called Vampirella of Dracula. Cause you know, we have Ergon and I have created our own vision of Dracula that is just fantastic.

46:18
You know, and I love visiting that place and I would like to do some stories about her as you know, like a teenager on on on Dracula, you know, and then we did like the year one thing we went to see her as a child where she's got sneaking the cow on the subway. It's doing stuff like that, where she was just this kind of wild child who had escaped like her mother was a bad person. So they came and locked her mom up, you know, and she narrowly escaped being killed.

46:47
You know, so she was kind of, you know, living on her own at, you know, at age 12 or whatever it was. You know, so there's a lot of ground, untapped ground. There's hundreds of stories to be told. I think I would stick around as long as Dynamited wanted me to be there, and as long as I was having fun, you know, but ideal in the reality of the publishing environment, which is very tight. People have very short attention spans.

47:16
So we'll just have to kind of take it one year at a time and see where the wind blows. So you've mentioned Ergun a few times now. Gündüz, yes. Yeah, Ergun Gündüz is the artist you work with currently, yes? Yes, from Turkey. One of the artists you've worked with currently. And he's hysterical. He doesn't speak a word of English. Okay. And he gets all my jokes. He gets them all. He's just hilarious, yes. So this is what I was, you're getting there, right? So like, what is it like?

47:46
What is your workflow like? You're working with this guy, you've been working with this guy, he doesn't understand English, he gets all your jokes. How is the dynamic when you're creating, right? You have kind of a brand a little bit, you know? And talking with you right now, you're a bit of a firebrand and I love it. The bad boy of comics writing the bad girl of comics. Okay, look, here's the thing. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Let me gloat on a little bit here. Listeners, if you're watching, listening,

48:14
I had a chance to catch up with some of the stuff you're doing with Vampirella. And I will say this, and this is praised as far as you're concerned. You have a very pulpy style that elevates the material to a different level, right? Like you were talking about how plot point A meets plot point B, and here's the simplicity that's woven through a lot of mainstream comics. And what you're doing with Vampirella, I found refreshing because it reminds me of all of the pulps like the Shadow or Doc Savage.

48:44
Stuff like that where you didn't know what was really happening in the narrative till sometimes by the end of the book and it was rewarding. It was like, okay, I actually feel like I went on an adventure as opposed to being sold like oh, you're going to go on an adventure and you see everything coming a mile away. Like the stuff you've done with Vampirella is freaking fantastic. So I got to ask you and Erkan working together, what does that look like? I mean, do you guys...

49:12
Do you use Google Translate? How does this work? Fill me in. Okay. We have a translator. We have a gentleman named Ilky. I-L-K-E. Ilky. But basically, my editor, Matt and I, we communicate with Ergon through him. So he does, he actually takes the script and he will do a translation of the script. And then he sends it onto Ergon.

49:40
Really quick, really quick. Has Okie ever been like, what the hell do you want me to translate again? No, no, no, he's, he's, he's either American or he speaks English very well, but he really gets it. But Aragon has never once I mean, I'll tell you, it gets to the point where like we were doing this, this art called Interstellar. And that was our first trip to Dracula. And I wanted Lillith's mother has been kidnapped and she's being imprisoned. And she's being held by the cops.

50:10
on Draconon and I wanted some unique place to tie her up. I didn't want to just say, okay, it's another Star Wars dungeon. And so I'm going, and I'm writing the script and I go, and I go, okay, well, she's bound and gagged and hung upside down inside a gravat. You know, now what's a gravat? I have absolutely no idea. I had no idea what a gravat was. I just said it's some sort of.

50:40
Giant creature. Yeah, just revive. So it goes through Ilky, and a few weeks later, the pages come in. And my god, it's this enormous funny-looking beast of sorts. And the thing has swallowed Lilith whole, and it's just perfect. And then I wanted to have a deranged Apollo astronaut.

51:11
you know, a guy who's like, you know, you know, the old side, they all side about, you know, the Japanese soldier who's still, you know, on Okinawa somewhere and it doesn't realize the war's been over for years. You know, so it's like I wanted to have this deranged astronaut. You know, I want to have our version of the Joker, you know, this guy who was just out there and just out of his mind, you know. And I describe this guy.

51:40
you know, not really knowing what he would come back with. And he came back with Shane. Shane is our crazy astronaut guy. And he's like, he's still wearing the pressure suit, you know? And he's got like this white coat that's all over the pressure suit. And a white coat is clearly, he hasn't washed it in like a hundred years and it's got blood stains all over it. And he's got like a knife and he's, you know, that kind of thing. And he's

52:08
Why is he so serious? You know, he's really that guy. Ergon gets it. He just gets it. You know, I can't explain it any better than that. He's went, wow, I've never been disappointed with what he came back with. And this is a guy who totally gets me, who, you know, has never dropped the ball. And Vampirella666 is probably the best art job this guy's ever done.

52:38
He's had a long time to do it because we started really early on this. And for once he wasn't rushing rushing the deadline. But the amazing things that he does with color and amazing things that he does with perspective, you know, now it doesn't look it does not look like Jose Gonzalez. It doesn't have that classic Warren, you know, you know, sketchbook look. It looks more like animation, like an adult swim, you know, cartoon.

53:07
But it absolutely works and it's absolutely fabulous. And I couldn't be happier working with the guy. It's a terrific partnership. I'm glad we're still rolling. And I think 666 is actually a prime example of this guy at reeling from, wow, this is funny to somebody getting their head blown off, which is not really funny when it happens. So we are reeling from one moment to the other. And there's a lot of.

53:36
WTF, what's happening here, which is kind of par for the course, as the mystery starts to unfold, you start to realize something is wrong. It takes you a few pages to realize something is wrong. Unless you are familiar with the cast and the characters, you've been reading the book, you'll know from page one, you go, okay, something's wrong here. One thing I found interesting about the solicitation for 666 is that it looks like it's going to be oversized.

54:05
and they're including a kind of like a retro issue or a Vampirella story that you wrote back in 1999 for Vampirella Monthly number 19. I believe Allen Davis, who's one of my favorite artists, had illustrated that. So I think that's kind of a cool juxtaposition that we're getting, you know, your story for this brand new art and arc in Vampirella, you know, juxtaposed with like an older story.

54:29
I guess when's the last time that you revisited that? And do you remember anything from that? I mean, it's only a six page story, and it's a wordless story at that. So you brought up Larry Halma a few times, so it got me thinking about the silent issue. But I guess do you have any memories that come to mind working with Alan Davis on this particular Bamperella story? I didn't really work with Alan Davis. I worked with David Bogart, who's now some high and mighty vice president at Marvel.

54:59
You know, hi David. And so I worked the story out with him and I was blessed and lucky enough to get Alan Davis to do it. And I bumped into Alan Davis in an elevator just a few months ago, you know, and we're chatting in the elevator, you know, and I go, well, you know, and we're chatting about something else, but how slow the elevator is, you know.

55:22
And we're actually in the elevator and I go, well, hi, I'm Christopher Priest. And he goes, oh, I'm Alan Davis. And I was like, oh, well, this is Sarah Diffinus. And I think I started immediately begging him to do some more work with me. And he was like, eh, we don't like you. No, I'm not.

55:40
I think Alan might be semi-retired. I think he's just not doing a whole lot these days. It's ironic that they chose that story because we're just coming off of this mini-series, the Rage mini-series, which is about Vampirella's stolen baby. And the Alan Davis story is about a stolen baby. And Vampirella trying to get the baby home while she herself has suffered some sort of a...

56:09
life-threatening wound and they're out in the middle of nowhere and the only nourishment that Vampirola has is the baby in her arms. So she is constantly tempted to drink the blood of the baby because that's the only way that she can survive. So she's fighting against her own nature for six pages trying to get that baby home. So I thought it was kind of ironic that they would choose that story because it folds so well into the themes.

56:38
that we have been working with. I just got goosebumps. And like a fool, I was about to ask, well, did she do it? Did she do it? Don't leave it on edge of my seat. That's good. Well, now you'll have to get it. And actually, 666 and 667 are kind of extended books. 667, we are reprinting eight pages from our original run because we are introducing or reintroducing a villain. Smart.

57:07
uh, from the, from, uh, our earlier run. And I said, well, instead of me trying to explain who this guy is, why don't we just, it's the same writer, the same artists, let's just open the book with this guy's, uh, with a prologue, uh, that, that shows this guy's origin. So you're really getting your bang for your buck. If you, uh, uh, you know, if you, if you, uh, try us out with 666, excuse me. And 667. So I gotta ask.

57:35
Do you have like a soundtrack in your head when you are writing a story? Are there certain songs that you have attached to different moods or characters that maybe influenced the writing style or I don't know, musical cues? And can I piggyback off that question and also ask you, are you familiar with how much your first solo album goes for on something like Discogs?

58:05
The record nerd in me has to know, but Cesar's question first. OK, so music, I don't know. I don't think I've ever thought about it, about music when I'm writing. Yes, stupid. I tend to be influenced more by like, you know, news, current events, whatever I was watching on TV, you know, you know, just really well written film or whatever. And I go, well, here's an interesting concept or here's an interesting idea.

58:34
You know, um, so how about directors then who, who do you like from, as from a film perspective for crying out loud? Um, you know, Martin Scorsese and, uh, you know, um, uh, you know, see, hmm, uh, well, well, yeah, uh, Coppola on occasion, you know, you know, it depends on what the, what the, what the thing is, you know, but, uh, uh, uh, Christopher Nolan, you know, uh, I was just watching Oppenheimer.

59:04
And I went to see it with a friend of mine. And I told him, I said, look, not many people.

59:13
I don't want to say regular people. That sounds like such a snobby thing to say, but not many people are really going to get Christopher Nolan's films, you know, like Tenet or Interstellar, you know, the first pass. Even the Memento, yeah. You know, I myself need to watch something two or three times. I know I will watch Oppenheimer. I just watched it a second time here at home. I will watch it a couple more times to really get all of it, because Christopher Nolan does kind of what I do, where he does all of this stuff at a sequence.

59:42
You know, and sometimes, as in the case of Tendon, he's doing stuff backwards. You know, yeah, we can really follow that. Thank you, buddy. You know, so but what he does is he actually. Asks for, if not demands audience participation, so I've been told. By Marvel, and you see that I make people work too hard to, you know, I make you the reader. I'm required too much reader input, and you know what I'm inspired by is like guys like Frank Miller.

01:00:12
Uh, and I knew Frank Miller when he was just before he was frying Camilla. I know when it was these are the stories. All right. Let's see it. Yeah. He was a skinny kid who was showing up at Marvel trying to get work, you know, and Danny O'Neill took it, took in a stray and, you know, took him under his wing and you know, that kind of thing. And, uh, Danny O'Neill was like my main, I think, influence, my biggest influence along with guys like David McLean, Roger Stern, and of course Chris Claremont.

01:00:42
Uh, who I just adore. Uh, but, but Denny was, was just, you know, he's like, he was like a dad to me. You got any cool stories about Denny? Probably half a dozen, but let me stick with this for a second. Okay. So, so, you know, when Frank started showing up, you know, you know, I kind of, you know, would see him in passing and we, you know, we kind of, you know, hello, hello, hello, you know, um, and, uh, once he started, uh, not just drawing their devil, but writing their

01:01:10
I became this huge Frank Miller fan. And even though I knew him, I still admired him, which is weird to admire somebody that you actually know. But it's like, oh, wow. And I would like, I and half a million other people, hopefully you too, would get like Frank Miller Daredevil and we're reading it from cover to cover. And you get to page 20 or 22 or whatever it was in those days and you're pissed off that there isn't more. And you see the letters page,

01:01:43
You know, and you get to the end of this thing, and I would finish the comic, and I would set it down.

01:01:53
you know, because it was just, you know, like, like, like the like the kingpin, like the kingpin's wife had gotten kidnapped by these people who live in the subway. You know, and Kingpin is really stressing out. He's full of grief, worried about Vanessa, you know, and he's in his office and he's like brooding up Kingpin and brooding, you know. And then this wedding band comes is tossed in from off panel and bounces off of his desk. And it's Vanessa's ring, you know, and immediately without even looking at.

01:02:21
he knows it's Daredevil over there somewhere. And without even looking at him, he goes, what do you want? And Daredevil basically lays out his terms. He wants Kingpin to release the mayor, his hold on the mayor or whatever the plot was. And see guys, to me, the plot was actually incidental. I was invested, you were invested, we were invested in the characters. We were invested in these relationships and this unbelievable feud between

01:02:49
this chubby, bald-headed guy that was kind of a joke in Spider-Man, but Frank made him into this compelling character. You know, and I said to myself, and I'm sure I've said it out loud many times, I want to make readers feel that way when they get done with my story. I want you to get to the last page of Superman Lost, number nine, and I want to just blow your head off when you see that last page. I want you to go, holy crap.

01:03:18
How is he gonna get out of this one? And that's what I'm trying for. I don't always succeed. I may only rarely succeed, but I am trying to earn your five bucks. I'm trying like hell to make you feel like, okay, it was worth spending time in this world with these characters. See, kids? You guys, this is a man who's putting the work in, so that way you get your bang for your buck. Since we're on the topic of Marvel,

01:03:46
I would be remiss if I didn't ask this. And just a little series for a quick minute. One of my favorite articles, comic book articles ever, is one that was written by Abraham Riesman. Big shout out to him, we had him on the show another lifetime ago. But he wrote a really good editorial about you in 2018 around the same time the Black Panther movie was coming out. I believe it's called Christopher Priest, The Man That Saved, The Man That Made Black Panther Cool.

01:04:13
Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Really. It's one of my favorite articles. I share it a lot and in it he you know, he really shines a light on your career and the the things that you know, you contributed to comics one of those being Breaking down the the color line when it came to you know Being the first black full-time full-time black writer and editor at any of the big two And and I was curious, you know hearing you talk about you know I got to know him when he was you know, Frank Miller when he started out, you know

01:04:42
I got Daniel Neal's stories. I guess when you think back to that time, like did you feel that, I won't call it wait, but did you feel that moment? Like did you feel like, wow, I'm really doing something monumental that they'll talk about from years from now? You know, I'm opening doors for future. I know where this is going already. Or did it just feel like just another day? You know, like I'm here at Marvel doing what I do. Oh my God, I was, you know.

01:05:11
I had no sense of me being the first anything. I was 17 years old. I was a kid, you know, and I was kind of an obnoxious kid, you know, and one day Marie Severin, the art director at the time, Marie Severin says, Jim, can you come into my office for a minute? And I went, oh, sure. You know, and I figured she wants me to go get her, sharpen her pencils or something. I don't know. You know, and I go in the office and she closes the door. And Marie Severin, who was like the sweet sort of motherly type, this gregarious, very funny.

01:05:39
very warm woman, she turns into the mother from hell. And she goes, okay, listen to me here, kid. Nobody wants you here, okay? And she just proceeds to like weed me the riot act that I was being too familiar, too obnoxious, whatever the story was. Marvel was like this, it was exactly the way you thought it was in the bullpen bulletins. The atmosphere that Stanley created was like this almost circus-like atmosphere.

01:06:08
Okay. And maybe I was taking it too far and I was just being too prankster as sure I was too obnoxious. I don't know. I was I was something. But, you know, Marie read me the riot act because basically nobody wanted me here and they were all going to ask shooter to get rid of me. You know, so Marie actually saved me. And at the time, you know, nobody enjoys a good spanking, you know, but, you know.

01:06:36
she calmed my happy ass down and that really saved me at Marvel. And to a certain extent, she became responsible for my career. So at the time, I was just like this kid getting coffee. But you have to understand that my first day at Marvel, this was 1978. My first day at Marvel, I am led into the bullpen, the Marvel.

01:07:04
bullpen and they did have a big bullpen at the time, you know, and I go up to this kid, you know, and they introduced me to this other kid and the kid goes, wow, I'm so glad to see you. And he reaches around his neck and he takes off this necklace and he reaches over and puts it around like a ceremonial, he puts it around my neck and now I have this key hanging around my neck and it's the key to the Xerox machine.

01:07:28
And he was like, he was so glad to see me because now he doesn't have to be bothered with the damn Xerox machine anymore, unclogging the Xerox machine. And that's how I met John Romita Jr. You know, so, you know, so, you know, Len Wein and Dave Cochran shared an office in the back room. Marv Wolfman would come and go, you know, and like I said, I would do all the Xeroxing for him, Alan Milgram, Joe Duffy, they shared an office there.

01:07:54
Carl Potts was next door to Larry Hama, who I ended up eventually working for. Eventually they hired Michael Golden. Michael Golden became our neighbor, and we would go and have these really long lunches. And, you know, I learned visual storytelling from Stan Lee, from Stan sitting there with original Jack Kirby pencils in his hand. He goes, let me show you something, Jim. You know, and he's teaching me how to do sequential storytelling.

01:08:21
from pages from the master himself, original Jack Kirby art, and Stan himself in his office teaching me this stuff. So it was just like, you know, you're surrounded by all of these, you know, so guys like Chris Claremont, he's like a new guy, you know, Stan, you know, and certainly Frank Miller's a new guy. And then one day there's this homeless guy who waters in off the street. I don't know how he got in, and he's wandering up and down the hall.

01:08:47
And I didn't say anything, because it's not my place. But I don't know what's going on here. So I come back the next day, and the homeless guy is still there. He's still wandering up down the hall. And at some point, the guy comes by, and he starts talking to Larry. And Larry talks to him for a minute. Then he starts wandering down the hall again. And I see this guy just ambling up and down the hall. So at some point, I just went, I turned to Larry and go, Larry, who's that guy? And Larry goes, you don't know who that is? And I went, no. He goes.

01:09:17
That's Denny O'Neill. And this guy was like my idol. You know, he wasn't, to say Denny was not a fashion horse is to be, you know, he was, you know, at any rate, you know, I just, yeah, you know, and it just over the course of time, long story short, Jim Shooter kind of forced me onto Power Man and Iron Fist. Denny was not pleased about that.

01:09:46
You know, but as we started working together, I guess at some point he thought, well, maybe this kid actually does have some talent. Um, and, uh, and then we just graduated from Power Man, Iron Fist to other things and eventually to DC and whatever. Uh, and to the point where he, you know, he and Larry were really kind of like surrogate fathers, uh, to me and, uh, you know, Marvel was my family. I grew up there that I literally, you know, grew up in that place. And I can't tell you.

01:10:13
how much love I had for that place and for the people in it. Okay, we can invite you back for a part two. We can talk Marvel. All right, you don't have to twist my arm. And for real, I would love to have you come back just to talk, you know, those early Marvel years. But hearing you talk about, you know, starting out, you said, I think 79. And then, you know, trying to do the mental math in my head, it's almost like 50 years you've been in the game. And one thing I told was telling Cesar.

01:10:42
probably hit record. You know, Priest is the walking embodiment. Now, Grant, I think some of our listeners would have to be familiar with your story, the ups and downs, the hiatus as you've kind of alluded to some of those. But I was telling C, I was like, man, Christopher Priest is the walking embodiment of just when I thought I got out the game, they keep pulling me right back in. And I'm curious to hear from you when you think back kind of holistically.

01:11:08
you know, through this crazy ride that has been your comic book profession, what's been, and maybe you can boil it down to one or two moments, but what's been the proudest moment for you? Like when, at the end of the day, like what can you hang your hat on that? You're like, you know what, no matter what this meant the most to me, this, you know, this made it all worthwhile. Well, that's a tough one. But, uh, and why is it Vampirella 666? Dynamite PR, I got you.

01:11:36
I'm pretty sure that the first thing that springs to mind is Superman Lost. Wow, cool. I think that if I never wrote another comic book again, I would be satisfied with that being the last thing that I did. Not only for DC, but just did period. I think if I got hit by a meteor, I'm very proud of the work. And I can't tell you what it means to me to finally not be...

01:12:06
thought of as a black writer. I am a writer who happens to be black, but I really thought it unfair. And my exile was completely self-imposed. It wasn't like no one was offering me things. They would just only offer me black characters. And I thought the fact that we did this wonderful job, the whole team did this wonderful job, Carla Pagulian and everyone else on that book.

01:12:34
Uh, with, uh, with Superman, uh, it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's just a moment where I feel like, okay, now I can exhale where like, you know, I, I'm back to being like competitive accepted, uh, as, as, as a creative talent in my own right and not limited by the color of my skin. And, and that was an important, uh, moment. I mean, that was the first Superman series ever assigned to a black writer. Wow. History in the making. Wow.

01:13:03
It's 45 years, or almost 46 now, of being under the glass ceiling. And in the early days at Marvel, I never felt or was even aware of a limitation, because I wrote Spider-Man, I wrote Thor, I wrote the Hulk. I, you know, they let me compete for jobs. Shooter let me be competitive on all levels for jobs. You know, I did Spider-Man versus Wolverine, you know.

01:13:32
And then I did Black Panther, and all of a sudden now I'm a Black writer. Which is, which is ironic because the Black Panther comic book was not actually about the Black Panther. It was a comic book about this guy named Everett Ross and his collision course with a cultural awakening. You know, so it was Everett Ross's observations of this, of this king of Wakanda. You know, that's what the story was about.

01:13:56
It was about the white guy. It wasn't really about the black guy. But somehow I became typecast. Also, thank you for letting Mephisto give Everett Ross pants when he asked for them. The devil's pants, yes. He's just like, oh my god, does my soul belong to him now? Oh no. It's great. So I have this, I'm a man of many hangups. And

01:14:24
My writing style is not necessarily, as we discussed earlier, a good fit for the mainstream. So I am frequently overlooked or not invited to the party at Marvel and DC. So having the opportunity to do the Superman book, that was a major thing for me. It was a.

01:14:53
I can't tell you, it was very special. It meant a lot to me. And I'm ready for the media right now to just take me out. I'm good. You brought up Black Panther, so I've gotta ask, cause I'd be remiss, cause I know my dad is listening and waiting. He would actually prefer if we just talked Black Panther for two hours. But. Well, there'll be other days. I guess what was going through your head, knowing that one of the most anticipated, I'm saying this in hindsight, one of the most anticipated.

01:15:22
and then critically acclaimed MCU movies was based, was pulling so much from your iconic story. And you know, in this, in that movie, Black Panther 1 came out February 2018. So not only is, you know, that article also written in 2018. So there's a lot of attention on your series. You know, it felt like, you know, your name was everywhere. And then, you know, also, we're also talking about Vampirella. That's also the same year that, you know, Nick Borucci comes and gives you that opportunity. I guess, what was your head space in 2018?

01:15:51
with this movie coming out and just your career, I guess in total. I always feel like today is the last day of my career that I'll never write again, I'll never get another offer. So I usually hate everything I do. After this show, it definitely will be. There you go. For sure. I'm definitely like a glass half empty kind of guy. So the Black Panther movie, I was really convinced that nobody would go to see it. Oh boy, were you wrong. I was talking to the...

01:16:20
the executive producer, Nate Moore. And I said, well, Nate, I'm just really concerned that people won't go see the movie because black superheroes have never been very successful sales-wise. And Nate just kind of laughed and he's like, don't come see it, don't come see it. And I think with the Black Panther movie, Marvel discovered an audience they didn't know they had because you had like grandmas who came to that movie and you had...

01:16:49
you know, Latino families and Latino families. True story. That that came to see this movie. People who would never have any interest in coming to see a superhero movie came to see it became a cultural. It almost became like this thing you had to do. If you know, particularly if you're black, you have to go see this movie now. It is required. You must. You must, you know, stop what you're doing and go see the Black Panther. And I was invited to do the premiere and

01:17:18
along with Ta-Nehisi Coates and Don McGregor and many other creators who would... Because Black Panther has a lot of daddies. For sure. And I can tell you it was a real emotional, almost verging on religious experience for me, particularly that moment where you get the flyover, the first sighting of Wakanda. Oh, yeah. You see the huts and so forth. And Ryan Coogler had this wonderful music that's playing. And then the...

01:17:47
you know, the veil lifts and you see this magnificent city. And my first thought was like, you know, that's what Atlanta should be. That's what, you know, parts of Chicago should be. It should be, you know, we need to put the guns down and stop squabbling with each other and start working together, you know. And that's what, you know, what our society is capable of if we would just aspire to it and dedicate ourselves and our children.

01:18:16
you know, to aspirational goals. So yeah, it was a terrific experience. The only bummer about it was that at some point, I left my seat to go to the men's room and Snoop Dogg hit on my date. But that's neither here nor there. And then somebody realized Snoop Dogg was sitting back there in the cheap seats with us. And they said, oh no, come with me, Mr. Dogg. And they moved him to-

01:18:46
moved into much better seats. And I was like, the Concord people are always like given, we're lucky to be invited at all, but we're always like, we were there for end game, for the premiere for end game. And I'm there with Mark Wade and with a bunch of other people and Reggie Hudlin and a bunch of people like that. And we're all like sitting way in the back. And I want, these are the people that created these concepts.

01:19:13
And there aren't many of us. It's not like we're going to take up that many seats. But shouldn't we have better seats than this? It's really kind of lopsided. And then we get these little honorariums. And don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the few bucks that they strip off or so whatever. But it's really kind of insulting considering that they're getting all these ideas that you know.

01:19:42
They just have to go back through the bound volumes and read the stories and adapt them for the screen. Why not cut Steve Englehart a real check? Why not cut me a real check for crime without a doubt? That kind of thing. I mean, Black Panther made a billion and a half dollars. Where's my house? I should get a house out of that. At least a house. Not a big house, not a mansion, not a 50 cents house.

01:20:08
Yeah, with gardening. I'm on a garden, you know? Nickelback, Nickelback's house. I'm there with you. Did you ever have an opportunity to meet or interact with Ryan Coogler or even like the late great Chadwick Boseman? Yes, I met them both. We did a behind the scenes piece. We did a roundtable discussion. It's available on the Black Panther Blu-ray and the.

01:20:31
and the 4K disc release, you go into the extras, there's a round table discussion and there's the producers and Ryan, the director and so forth. And then there's me, Don McGregor and Ta-Nehisi Coates. I got to hang out with Robert Joe Cole, who was the co-writer. And then I was on set in Atlanta for Infinity War.

01:20:58
And there's a scene in Infinity War, I believe it's Infinity War, where the Avengers go to Wakanda and ask, solicit the Black Panthers' help. And there's this walking talk down a hill. And they get to the bottom of the hill and you pan around and there's the Winter Soldier. That scene there, you know, I'm standing just off screen. I'm right there. I'm standing right there, you know, while they shoot that scene. Let me tell you, fellas, if you're ever invited to a movie set.

01:21:27
Like I was on the set with Scarlett Johansson and Mark Ruffalo, and they were doing the scene for for Infinity Wars in the there in the Quinjet and they got this Quinjet. They've got it on the sound stage and this big friggin, you know, Quinjet, you know, and I will tell you, it's the most exciting 15 minutes of your life, followed by hours of boredom because they do that scene over and over.

01:21:57
and over and over. And then they stop and they readjust the lights. It takes them like an hour, an hour to readjust the lights. And then they come back in and now they got the shot on Scarlet. And they do the scene over.

01:22:09
and over and over and then they adjust the lights again and then they're flipping it around for mark and over and over and it's freezing it's like a meat locker in there and you can't leave it's like a roach motel you know the security is so tight you know so you can only kind of come and go at certain intervals whatever and i'm going you know so you know when i met when i met uh uh mr bozeman

01:22:35
That was actually on location during the walk and talk, during that scene there. And they took a break because they, I don't know, they were doing whatever they were doing. They're always taking a break at these things. And he was over by craft services and I saw some guy with a headset and I said, hey, could I go over and say hello to Mr. Bozeman? And the guy with the headset, he looks over at Chadwick and he looks back at me and he goes, I don't see why not, he's standing right there. I was like, well, I don't know what the rules are. I don't want to get kicked off the set.

01:23:04
You know, so, you know, I go creeping up, you know, to Chadwick and I'm like sneaking up on him like a cat burglar because I don't want to startle him. I don't know why I'm doing that, you know, but you know, he's Chadwick Boseman and I'm not, you know what I mean? So I'm like, and he turns around, he's got like the sandwich, you know, whatever. And I said, and my voice goes up two octaves. I don't know why he just goes up to act and I'm also Jerry Seinfeld.

01:23:30
You know, and all of a sudden I'm just like, excuse me, Mr. Postman, I don't mean to disturb you, but I just want to say hello, I'm Christopher Priest. You know, and I'm starting to explain who I am. And you know, before I can do that, he just breaks out this broad grin and he lunges over and gives me this big bear hug because the guy's a comics fan, he knows who I am. And he read all this stuff, you know? And he starts talking to me, but he's talking to me and he's got this weird accent. And I'm going.

01:23:58
What are you doing here? I didn't say that, but I'm thinking, okay, what's going on here? And he's talking to me and we're like, okay, well, next time you're in LA, I'll call Reggie, because Reggie Hudlin was directing him in Marshall. You know, so I'll call Reggie and we'll all hook up for lunch or something like that. It's like, oh wow, a Hollywood lunch. I'll get the hookup, you know? So we're making these plans, you know? But he's talking to me with this weird accent and then it hits me. I go, oh wait, wait, wait, he's still Shala.

01:24:25
You know, because he doesn't want to get out of character because the dialogue, the dialect is difficult, you know. So once he's in, he's in and he won't break it, you know, for the, until the shoot is over. But for a while I was like, okay, what is happening here? This is very strange. And we got a picture together, which I could send to you at some point. And that was great. But tragically he passed away before I made it out to LA. And...

01:24:55
But he was he could not have been more kind. He was very nice. I got to meet Kevin Feige So the word got upstairs to wherever Kevin was when I was on the set this is when we're at the studio and and Kevin comes down from the ivory tower or the Beanstalk wherever he's got his office, you know, and he comes down and he comes over. I heard you here I had to come over and introduce myself and I was like but You know, it's just like I said, this is weird dichotomy because I feel like when I'm

01:25:25
when I'm dealing sometimes with the companies, they're like, eh, old man, you know? But I'm on the set and here's Anthony Russo and here's his brother. And they took the time to come over, introduce themselves and get the handshake and let's get a picture and all that kind of stuff. And it was really gratifying and really nice A, that they knew or cared who I was. Mark Ruffalo brushed past me to get to craft services.

01:25:54
So it was kind of like, you know, boom, like the Hulk just kind of, and I was like, wow, I just got like brush passed by Mark Ruffalo. That was very cool. You know, but yeah, it was wonderful to just interact with all that. And yeah, it is kind of surreal to see characters that you created walking around breathing. And here is, you know, Danny Guerra, you know, you know,

01:26:22
you know, speaking these, this dialogue and becoming this character and you know, uh, and these other characters that are, that, that, that they have brought to life. And I'm just, uh, uh, I was really humbled by it. Wow. I appreciate you sharing that. And yeah, if you'll send me that photo, I'd love to post it or work it into a reel or something. Um, Bruce, you have been extremely gracious of your time and your stories. I I've got so many more questions about this, your first, about the music career, about, uh, Mar, I don't even think we touched on.

01:26:51
too much about your early DC years or involvement, milestone, I've got a lot of questions. So hopefully we can make a part two happen later this year. But I wanna be respectful of your time and your evening. I do wanna go ahead and remind everyone that's listening right now. Vampirella 666 will be out on Valentine's Day, the same day that this episode is available. It's a fresh jumping on point. Buy it for your mom, buy it for your dad. Buy it as a gift for your loved one, your significant other.

01:27:15
Nothing says I love you like Vampirella 666. Come on everybody, get on board. There's enough covers that there's something for, there's little something for everybody. I mean, it's great, it's great. Do you have anything in closing that you wanted to say to the listeners, whether it be about Vampirella or just anything else you got going on? Do you have any shameless plugs? This is the time. Oh, no, the trouble with shameless plugs is that they're all things that I'm not allowed to talk about because the companies haven't announced them. I got a Marvel project that will...

01:27:44
probably announced at some point, hopefully soon. You know, I've got a book with humanoids that it's just taking a while for it to be drawn, you know? And then there's a complete series of five issue series from Heavy Metal that is written, drawn, colored, it's ready to go. And they went bankrupt.

01:28:08
They ceased publishing. So, you know, we're waiting for them to get their financing or maybe we find a white knight who wants to go in and maybe Image will publish it or maybe Nick Borucci will publish it. But it's called, you know, it's, wow, now I'm having a senior moment. I'm forgetting the name of my own series. It's called Entropy. And it's drawn by this new kid, Montos, who's drawing a green lantern. And forget me, the art is unbelievably

01:28:38
Oh my gosh, this guy just went completely to town. It's just unbelievably gorgeous artwork. And it's just a labor of love. It was produced by Joe Illich. He was the editor at the time at Heavy Metal. It's a gorgeous project that's just sitting there somewhere on a hard drive. So yeah, we got that. We got the humanoid book is called Babylon. That should be out shortly. I can't tell you the name of the Marvel book because then that's all people want to talk about. That's getting ready to happen.

01:29:08
And with DC, we are having discussions over a range of ideas about what to do next. So there's this one thing that's kind of on its feet and it was interrupted. It was supposed to be part of the future state. And then they said, well, let's pull it out of future state and make it a graphic novel or a miniseries. So we may be doing that or we may be doing something else. So there's a couple of possibilities. But at this point, until they announce it, I don't want to actually go, we're doing that.

01:29:37
So it sounds like we are not getting another long hiatus. Well, there's a bunch of stuff in the pipeline, and we'll just have to see what drips out of it this year. So we'll have to see what happens. Well, we look forward to the George Costanza origin story that you'll be writing. I'd love to do it. Call Festivus for the rest of us. I'm excited. Yes. I'll do it. Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. You have a wonderful evening. And like I said, you are more than welcome back on the Short Box.

01:30:07
There you have it short box nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple podcast or Spotify.

01:30:36
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01:31:03
Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chittani, Tony Aupi, RC Gamet, Blake Simone, Blythe Brumleaf, Bo Evers, Brian Brumleaf, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker, Chris Jinx, David Morales, Triple D Mystic, Dominique Jackson, Errol White, Edbot 5000, Generation Jaguar, Greg Hopkins, Greg Lichtig,

01:31:33
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01:32:02
and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.