Coast to Coast: An interview with David Pepose About Space Ghost, Punisher, and Marvel Infinity Comics - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 424

00:00
Intro plays

01:16
Yo, Short Box Nation, welcome back to another episode. Thanks for joining me. If you're new, thanks for being here too. Welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comic books with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. This is episode 424 and as you can tell from the snippet in the intro that I've got another great guest lined up today. But before we get to that, let me remind everyone of just one thing. I've just got one.

01:45
very quick announcement and when we'll get the show going. C2E2 is this weekend. By the time you're hearing this episode, this weekend is C2E2. I've been looking forward to it. Obviously, I'll be there. And if you'll be in Chicago attending the convention too, it means that you have a very unique opportunity to attend a live podcast show like never before. I'll be hosting a comic podcast crossover live show on Friday, April 26th from 11.15 to 12.15 p.m. It'll be in room S405B.

02:16
think anyone's going to memorize that because most of you are either driving or doing other stuff. So I'll say I have links. I'll have a link to the panel information and everything in the show notes. So if you want to check that out later, please do so. But what you'll find is that I will be joined by very good friends of the show and frequent guest co-hosts, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles from the Oblivion Bar podcast and Greg Lichthaig and Andy Vargas from the First Issue Club. We're recording a live podcast show celebrating the best comics of the year so far.

02:44
We'll be highlighting creators to keep an eye out for. Have you ever heard any of the other episodes where Chris and Greg have been guest co-hosts? You can expect that on steroids. So once again, if you're attending C2E2 this weekend and you're looking for something to do, or maybe you just want a break from the con floor and standing in lines, I encourage you to come sit in for this live podcast show taking place Friday, April 26 at 11 15 AM. Check the show notes for details. Now, if that out the way.

03:12
I want to go ahead and talk about our guest of honor today. Today I've invited David Pepos on the show. David is a former crime reporter turned Ringo award winning comic book creator. He's written on hit titles such as Punisher, Moon Knight, Savage Avengers, Fantastic Four, Darth Vader, Black, White, and Red, and was responsible for writing and introducing a new Punisher into the Marvel comic universe. But Marvel isn't the only company that's tapping into David's stunningly subversive writing style.

03:41
for a brand new series that hopes to bring an iconic cartoon character back to the forefront of comic and pop culture. That character is none other than SPAIN!

03:54
A character that first debuted in 1966 in the Hanna-Barbera produced cartoon of the same name. If you're too young to remember that show, chances are you're probably more familiar of Space Ghost as the host of his own late night talk show in the cult classic Space Ghost Coast to Coast which aired on Cartoon Network from 1994 to about 1999. Space Ghost is returning to his crime fighting origins with the release of a brand new, modern retelling of his origin story in Space Ghost Number 1.

04:22
which will be available on comic shops everywhere on Wednesday, May 1st, with David Pepos on writing duties joined by superstar artist Jonathan Lau. I've had the opportunity to read issue one. I had an advanced copy and I can say it's pretty damn great. I also say it is not your dad's Space Ghost. It is. You've never seen Space Ghost this badass. All right. It's a mature. It's a more mature reintroduction of the character for a modern audience. But you don't got to take my word for it because we got the guy writing it here with us.

04:50
Short Box Nation without further ado, let's give it up for the man of the hour and welcome David Pepos to the show. Welcome to the Short Box, how are you doing today? I'm doing great, Robert. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for that lovely introduction. I am so excited to chat with you about all things Space Ghost today. And you came dressed appropriately too. I did. Right before, you know, I was pretty excited to see, you know, your face pop up on the screen wearing a Space Ghost shirt. I was in the middle of telling you that I have spent

05:21
all day on eBay looking up various Space Ghost toys, merch, collectibles, and I must say it is not cheap. Space Ghost merch is not cheap. That's what happens when you're a cult classic. Yes, I've got a couple Space Ghost shirts, I got a Space Ghost pom-pom when I got my first script approved. Yeah, he's a really fun character, but.

05:48
Like you said, there's a whole generation of fans who have no idea who Space Ghost is, or they only know him as a talk show host. And that was something that was really exciting for me is that we're really kind of like reclaim his super heroic roots and reintroduce him to a brand new generation with all the storytelling methods of 2024. Well said. And you know, I was in the process of doing my research for this episode online. I read as many articles as I can, but I also like to go into the comment section of certain articles and other comic platforms.

06:17
Which is kind of like, you never know what you're going to get in the comment section. Tread lightly is my word. Hope you've read your last comment. Yeah. My last comment. Yeah, because it can get toxic in there. But I think I see in a comment that, this comment in particular, I'll quote it here, I wrote, I know nothing about Space Ghost besides he has a cartoon talk show or something. Is this book an easy jumping on point or is it a part of some previous Space Ghost lore? And I thought it was such, it kind of encapsulates what I think a lot of people.

06:45
Especially like new fans are probably thinking when it comes to Space Ghost. I didn't see the old cartoon. I vaguely remember Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Who is this guy? Let's use that as our leading question here. The new series, do you have to know much about Space Ghost to jump on? You don't need to know a damn thing. There we go. I knew going into this that there's a whole generation of fans who don't know who Space Ghost is. Or they're drawing sort of like a half memory.

07:12
either from like, you're on Zun boomerang, or maybe if they're, you know, from another generation, you know, seeing that original 60s run or the 80s revival, or maybe the only no space goes from the Joe Kelly and Ariel, all of that E-mini series, you see, or Jeff Parker and Doc Shanner's work. But you know what? That's a lot of homework. I don't, you don't need to do any of it. For us, this is a brand new jumping on point. It's a clean slate.

07:39
I wrote this book to appeal to newcomers and diehard fans alike. So, um, you don't have to, you don't need to do any backstory. You don't need to do, you don't need to watch any cartoons. You need to, don't need to read any books. For me, it was all about, you know, um, it was sort of mirroring the, the sense of rediscovery that I had when I was doing research for this book. Um, for me, I did watch all those old cartoons and, and that kind of helped me figure out how space goes to the universe worked and how his powers worked in a supporting cast.

08:08
And then for me, it was about how do we distill all that and make it as user friendly of an introduction as possible? So you'll see from our very first issue that we actually have not one, but two point of view characters, and they really are kind of the way that we explore Space Ghost World. It's two of his sidekicks, Jan and Jace, and they really serve as the point of view characters for our book in the same way that Kitty Pride was the point of view character for two generations ago. So yes.

08:34
You don't have to have read anything. This is a brand new jumping on point. This is a clean slate, as far as I'm concerned. And we're really going to be building this whole entire story from the ground up. Well said. And as someone who has had a chance to read an advanced copy of issue one, I foolishly made the mistake of reading it really late at night. I read my comic books when I'm in bed, and I just need something to wind down. It had quite the opposite effect of winding me down and making me tired. It had me pumped. I grew up watching.

09:04
those old cartoons, old Hanna-Barbera. My dad was a cartoon guy. He always had cartoons on. We'd watch it with him. He introduced us to so many characters I love now in comic books. Yeah, dude, you blew my expectation out of the water. I was awake all night looking up space ghost action figures and toys. Considering that his footprint in comics isn't as large as being on screen on TV and things like that, is there a certain sense of freedom you feel with that, where it's like, OK, there's not

09:33
much lore holding me down or continuity. The comics are slim pickings. Granted, the slim pickings are really good. We're talking Jeff Parker, Ariel Vetz, Doc Schaener. Did you feel a sense of freedom? Or is it inverse? Is there a sense of pressure where it's like, OK, it's up to me to fill in the gaps and tell some of these organs? Freedom is exactly the word I would use to describe this book. I'm having so much fun with it because I'm

09:59
You know why was watching space ghost and really when dynamite first approach before the project you know i had known a bit about space ghost my very first internship in the industry i was a dc comics and so i worked on books like batman r. P. and final crisis and i'm a green lantern secret origin and a little tiny bit of blackest night as well. I'm and so i am that's what i learned about who was and i learned about space ghost having like actual super hero roots.

10:28
And and learning that that was a cartoon that came out right on the heels of Adam West's Batman in 1966. Everybody was trying to kind of do something in that vein because it was so white hot popular. And so as I learned about it and as I read Joe Kelly and Ariel Olivetti's miniseries, which they had just put into a collection recently, like within the last couple of years when I started my internship, I was like, this guy has all the ingredients of an A-lister. I mean,

10:54
He's got

11:22
or Spider-Man or the Flash, like it's that good. And it's all because Alex Toth was just throwing out banger after banger. All of his designs were just completely on fire, which was, I think, the reason why Space Ghost has endured. Because those episodes, I watched all those old Hanna-Barbera episodes, they're about five minutes of pop. There's no continuity between any of them. There's no backstory. There's barely enough time to kind of fit in the villain.

11:47
the plot of the day, throw in the superheroes and figure out how they get their way out. Those characters really kind of existed based on vibes. It was just the strength of those designs. And so for me, I was basically offered like, here's the best ingredients to make a meal that nobody has ever cooked. And for me, I was just like, this is amazing. I've never been offered ingredients this fresh before. And that had been sort of

12:15
In a genre that is so thoroughly mind like superheroes where everybody kind of has a new iteration of an old classic. This is somebody that is a character who doesn't have that kind of footprint and comics there's not a lot of expectation to go into it but at the same time you know watching all those old episodes i saw an immediate through line both of the action sense and emotional sense. And so the fact that nobody's told that story before boy you know my.

12:41
I've been very lucky in my career. I attribute a lot of it to being the right place and the right time. This is the book where I really feel like I was in the right place and the right time because like I said, he's got all the makings to being one of the greatest superheroes that ever was and nobody has tapped that yet. And I'm very excited to be the first one. Wow. I think your excitement shows through the pages. This first issue is so concise. It's lean, but it packs a punch. I love that it wasn't bogged down

13:11
trying to give you everything in just one issue. You let scenes breathe in a pair of Jonathan Lau's artwork, man. Space Ghost looks good. He's been in the gym, obviously. I'm like, man, this is a ripped superhero. I love it. I know the first two issues have been solicited. Issue one comes out Wednesday, May 1st. Make sure you stop at your local comic shop, pick you up a copy. But it's still early enough to where you could pre-order issue two to ensure that you get that.

13:40
that issue. How many issues have you done for the series and how long can we expect this first arc or this first run? Did you come into the project with a set number of issues in mind or a length of story? Yeah. I've been so thrilled with the generous runway that Dynamite and Warner Brothers has offered us in this book. When my editor, Joe Ribant, first approached me, he said, what do you think about a year to start?

14:08
I've never, you know, the way the market's very volatile right now. The longest runway I've ever been offered was 10 issues on Savage Avengers. So the fact that I was immediately offered a year was very attractive to me. And it was great being able to sort of plan something long term. Whereas, you know, a lot of books in the market right now, they're either, you know, very, they're shorter limited series, you know, four to five issues, maybe six if you're really lucky.

14:36
Or you're kind of planning it on an arc to arc basis, which, you know, be challenging to figure out what long-term plans are. So for me, um, you know, I, I pitched this as 12 issues in an annual, uh, you know, I, I, and there's other stories that I have in my back pocket that we can kind of slot in there if we, you know, if the demand is there, if we want more room, but, um, the thing that I was really excited about was also to maximize that runway, um,

15:02
I looked at a lot of books that i really love right now stuff like ryan north on fantastic four steve orlando and scarlet witch which is doing in the flagship moon night book and i. The thing that they all have in common is that they are done in one adventures and so that's something we're gonna be doing in space goes to star series is gonna be primarily self contained done in one's that all connect to one another but they're all self contained adventures and that way we're kinda doing it like batman along halloween.

15:29
In that you know that book was all about batman kind of tackling a gauntlet of his greatest enemies and for us we're kind of able to do double duty and that it's the same kind of gauntlet where you know where you're getting to be. Brack and the widow and zorak and creature king and multar and the talisman council of doom.

15:59
And for me, it was watching them and figuring out like, okay, what's the quality for each of these characters that stands out? What's a wrinkle that I can add to the mix that really plays that out? For example, a character like Brack, I love him as a villain because he's not like a world conqueror. He's not out there looking to take over the galaxy. He's got very blue collar aspirations. He's almost like a, he's a pirate. He's just looking over to knock off the nearest gold freighter with his brother.

16:28
And so I saw that opportunistic streak and brak and I thought, okay, what's a cool wrinkle that speaks to that? So you'll you won't have to wait long to see what how we do that. Or somebody like Zorak, who, you know, you just see based on his design, he's a homicidal praying mantis. There's something like inherently alien about the way he sees the world that that insectoid brain, you know, space ghost, by virtue of his name is somebody who's like playing it being a monster. Whereas Zorak to me is a monster.

16:58
he's the villain that can actually scare Space Ghost. And so what are the kind of wrinkles that we can add that like play up what a fearsome villain he is and also the alien perspective and motivations he has the way he sees the world. And so we've got some really cool stuff planned for him. And we're doing that for all the villains. We're just adding in like kind of new fun things for each of them. And yeah, doing that across done in ones means that every month you get to pick up a self-contained story. And that way, the handful of times that we do do a two parter.

17:28
We've sort of regained the power of the cliffhanger, where if you see the words to be continued, you know Space Ghost is in it. He is in dire straits. Things are really looking bad. He's going to have to fight twice as hard to fight his way out. Damn, that gets me excited, dude. I wasn't familiar with Jonathan's work, Jonathan Lau. I thought maybe he was a newcomer. Lo and behold, I started doing my research. I'm like, no, this guy has been putting it in.

17:55
Maybe this is a question better suited for him, so chime in where you can. But you brought up Alex Toth, and it's like, for some people, he is the king of this stuff when it comes to comics and design, and especially his contributions to Hanna-Barbera cartoons and just animation in general. I'm sure that shadow probably even affected you too, where it's like there's a legacy here that we've got to come correct in. How did you work with Jonathan to pay homage to what came before, but also carve your own path?

18:24
That's a great question. I mean, so for me, you know, it was about how much research can I do? The only thing longer than my 30 page pitch document that I sent to Dynamite and Warner Brothers was my notes document, which I think was around 45 pages. Wow. Took detailed notes on every single episode of the original 60s run, every single episode of the 80s revival, every single issue of Joe Kelly's run, every single issue of Future Quest.

18:51
The the when space goes to pier also the the i think it was three or four part or future quest presents even read mark ever near steve rudes comico one shot. That that they did i read the gold key one shot i read cartoon network present i read i wrote notes on all of it and so for me it was just like how do i absorb every bit of space goes to i know that i'm not gonna be alex tov.

19:21
Um, you know, how do I honor that vision as best I can, uh, while still kind of bringing it into the year 2024 Jonathan, meanwhile, uh, you know, he's done some really cool and interesting work, uh, in, in the way that he's interpreted those designs, somebody like space ghost. It's just iconic. And I think that's sort of a galvanizing, um, image around this whole, this whole book and Jonathan does such a great job.

19:47
It kind of balancing space goes being a powerhouse, but also having this like ethereal quality to him, especially the way he flies. And so, you know, having that then you can kind of do some fun twists and some of the villains. So, you know, you've seen it in our trailer and in some of the preview pages that we've teased you see Brack. Where instead of it being like a mask. This is like his face. You know, I talked to Jonathan about it. I said,

20:16
What if we made it in the same way that like a baboon has like, you know, the patterns on his face? Um, what if we did that for, for, for Brack? And I think he did a really interesting, cool job with that. And I've seen other villains that he's done. Um, he, he did a very cool, iconic monster and just nailed it out of the park. He and Andrew Dollhouse, I just saw the colors on it, uh, just this week and it looks sensational. Um, and there are a couple other very iconic villains. Um, uh,

20:45
that he's done a really spectacular job with. He just turned in his design for Zorak this weekend. And boy, it nearly knocked me out of my chair. It was really, it spoke so beautifully to the original cartoon, but just gave it its own kind of edge. And so I think Jonathan is really swinging for the fences with this book. And he's such a perfect partner for a book like Space Ghost. I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better artist on it.

21:14
He really understands kind of that balance where he's able to do these big blockbuster superhero moments. You'll see one in issue two that just is, I think, the best looking sequence I've ever been a part of. And then he immediately switches gears to these like very beautiful character beats, whether it's Jan and Jace having to comfort each other when their entire lives have been ripped away from them, or just like what do these kids look like when they're hanging out on Ghost Planet for the first time?

21:43
And I think that goes a long way to making you fall in love with these characters. So I think Jonathan really is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that regard. And he's being very bold and experimental, while still, I think, maintaining a reverence for those original designs. And so I think the way that he's reclaimed them and recaptured them is really cool. And then, yeah, teaming them up with Andrew Dollhouse. Andrew's fantastic. I worked with Andrew on a five-page Miles Morales short last year at Marvel.

22:13
And I was really taken with the energy behind his colors. And he is doing just, I think, some of the best work of his career on Space Ghost, where he's able to translate all that kind of sci-fi space opera energy, and again, translate it in the way that we would be expected to see it in 2024. So it really is just, it elevates these beautiful inks just to the next level.

22:38
And then running on our team is Taylor Esposito or letter and he's a lovely guy. I've been friends with Taylor for many years. I actually owe him my career. He introduced me to my very first colorist, the late Jason Smith. And so without Taylor, I wouldn't have had that first book and I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here. So it's really nice to finally be working with him on a direct market release. And he is really doing, doing, doing a lot of heavy lifting and making sure that like all my one-liners land.

23:08
So yeah, it's just been a really good team that I think we're feeding off of each other, really pushing each other to keep delivering our A game. So it's been a really wonderful dynamic, and I couldn't be in better hands with this team. That is so awesome to hear. And it's a little reminiscent of my chat with Christopher Priest. I had him on about a month ago to talk about the new Vampirella 666 issue and relaunch.

23:37
He had nothing but glowing remarks to say about the Dynamite team. And coming from someone like him who's bounced around and been to every publisher, it really felt like he had a lot of love and respect for the Dynamite team and what they do. So that's awesome to hear you echo that as well. On a related note, we are recording this episode on April 17th. Two days ago, April 15th, was the official 30th anniversary of Space Ghost Coast to Coast. It first aired.

24:06
April 15th, 1994. I think it was like two pilot episodes prior to that, but the first episode aired almost 30 years ago. And you had shared a tweet saying, hey, happy anniversary, Space Ghost Coast to Coast. I'm so grateful to folks like George Lowe and Andy Merrill, who first introduced me to Space Ghost growing up. Our upcoming comic wouldn't exist without Coast to Coast keeping Space Ghost name alive. Well, I try to say that like 10 times fast.

24:32
Have you had any interaction with like George Lowe or Andy Merrill or any of the original creators of Space Coast, Coast to Coast? Yeah, actually Andy Merrill was really lovely when we first announced Space Coast. Couldn't be a nicer and more gracious guy. And I saw that his Twitter following I think doubled, if not tripled, just this week.

25:00
with with with the Space Coast Coast Coast 30th anniversary. He is a real sweetheart. A lovely man. He was so kind. He actually I sent him a copy of our first two issues. And he said some really nice words about them, leading into our final order cut off. And yeah, you know, I feel like we really do owe the coast to coast crew. And you know, we owe them a great deal. I don't think that this book would never exist without without them. And I think

25:29
and it wouldn't exist in its current format without coast to coast either because I think coast to coast in a lot of ways it kind of encased the bones of space ghost in amber you know it was a very different kind of beast you know with that talk show format but I think what it did was it kept space ghost name alive and so when we were kind of reclaiming those superhero roots they hadn't you know those bones hadn't been touched or they'd sort of been only lightly touched.

25:57
So I kind of feel like an archaeologist, you know, being able to kind of pull those bones out of the amber and show the world that they're just as strong as they were in 1966. If anything, I think they might even be stronger because the superhero landscape is so hyper saturated these days that not only do you have superheroes, but you have deconstructions and superheroes, you know, things like the boys. And I think the audience wants more. They want new new storylines. They want fresh storytelling. I mean, you see the popularity of something like invincible.

26:26
for example. And I think Space Ghost can really inhabit the same sort of lane that something like Invincible can. So yeah, being able to kind of like work on something like that, you know, it wouldn't be possible without Space Ghost Coast to Coast kind of carrying that legacy for so much longer than the original cartoons. I mean, you know, the 66 run, that was one season and then the 81 revival was one season.

26:55
You know, that's that's I think 40 something episodes total. So, you know coast to coast that is the most space goes content that there is. And while our approach is is is markedly different, you know, we're not in that sort of sequel zone of of the talk show. Yeah, I think we owe we we owe Andy and George and the rest of the gang a real debt. And so I'm so thrilled to see how many people are so excited about.

27:21
the 30th anniversary that remember the 30th anniversary and I think more importantly how many people were given Andy Merrill his as much deserve flowers because that guy deserves the world and the fact that he's not just like kicking back on some island somewhere I think is a is a tragedy. So yeah, I think extremely highly of the man and yeah, it's been it's been a real pleasure to

27:49
to be able to interact with Space Coast royalty like him. I was today years old learning that Andy Merrill is also a fellow podcaster. So even more reasons to like him. David, I've had the Space Coast, Coast to Coast theme song stuck in my head all day. You know, like that guitar riff is way too cool. Bum, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Yeah.

28:14
I'm gonna find a way to work that into this episode, but it led me down a rabbit hole of just looking up, you know, the best episodes, clips on YouTube, and just kind of being like reintroduced to things that, and I was watching the Conan O'Brien clip where he's trying to kill like a fire ant at the same time. It's talking about Conan. It's freaking great. If you're listening to this right now and you haven't watched Space Coast, Coast to Coast in some years, I highly recommend going back and watching it. Right now I've got a Jim Carrey episode or a little Jim Carrey clip.

28:44
I think where he's on Space Coast, Coast to Coast promoting the Mask movie as my watch later. Do you have any standout or favorite episodes of Space Coast, Coast to Coast? I feel like you were incepting me because as you were talking about it, I was thinking about the Conan O'Brien episode where he's like, I was kind of like chuckled at myself. I'm really excited to reminisce about that. Then as soon as you brought it up, that one was probably my favorite. Let's see.

29:15
Yeah, I mean, that was I think that one was was was probably my favorite. But yeah, it's funny you bring up the Jim Carrey one because that was another excellent interview. But I think you know, that's the great thing about Coast to Coast is it really like, it kind of spans such a wide variety of comedy, like all these comedic figures on there. And then you see how much it like influenced just like, comedy for like 30 years after that.

29:44
Um, and we really all kind of started there. And so I will say like for us, um, you know, while we're, this is not about a talk show host, I feel like those, those, those two threads are pretty wide apart. And I don't think you can thread them in necessarily a coherent fashion. But I think for me, I did think it was important to like space coast. There needs to be a sense of humor to the book. And while we're not, you know, an out and out comedy, I think for me, there's this nice kind of counterpoint to our, like our big superhero.

30:13
uh action and drama and tension and suspense. I think having characters like Jan and Jason Blip really adds to that. And that like you can't be that grim and gritty of a book when you have those three kids who lend so much like humor and heart and warmth and wonder to the book. You know, I see them as like Babs Gordon and Dick Grayson meets Lex and Tim from Jurassic Park. Where, you know, their whole through line is like Space Ghost is the ultimate single dad.

30:41
That was so well said. Yeah, that is definitely the vibe I got by the end of this book is like, you got two adopted kids now. Two adopted kids now. And we've got some very fun stuff throughout the series of just like, Space Ghost is a great crime fighter, but like as a dad, you know, as a surrogate dad, he's very much a work in progress. And so you know, watching that kind of counterpoint where, you know, Jan and Jace play off each other and then as a unit with Blipp play off of Space Ghost as the straight man.

31:09
And every great once in a while space goes throws in like a real zinger is sort of this begrudging protector of these kids who are you know their kids they're gonna run off and do their own thing you're not really gonna always fall in line is sidekicks. And so i think that friction between those characters adds a lot of comedy to me. You know and and and well it's not an added you know we're not writing married with children here but like i think having those beats that counterpoint.

31:38
at counterplay, it really adds something cool, I think, to the tone of our book. So while it's not the same humor as Coast to Coast, I did feel it was important to...we're not going to have like a Grimm and Dour space ghost. I think that's reductive. I think having a space ghost who may have his own baggage and his own drama, but still has opportunities for, you know, some moments of levity, I think it's a really important thing for that character, for sure.

32:08
And I want to put just a little placeholder on this conversation because we're going to get back to Space Ghost. But you've said this a couple of times and the question's in the forefront of my mind right now. Also in the course of doing research for this conversation, I chanced upon crime reporting. I had seen a connection with your name and crime reporting. And I didn't have much time to really dig into that facet of your career.

32:31
So could you describe like your background with reporting it and how you ended up doing that as a professional was that before? You got into writing comics or yeah, that was that's my first job out of college. I When I I graduated in 2008 And so you might remember that there was a certain global recession recession. Yeah, I was out of a job for like a couple months Yeah, that's it. In fact did my job. Yeah, and so I graduated into that and

33:00
I had studied journalism creative writing in college. And so while I had just got off my internship at DC, there were no jobs to be had in the comics industry. And so I wound up falling back on my journalism training. I had turned in newsrooms outside of Boston, Washington, DC, Los Angeles. And so I wound up working as a crime and politics reporter for the Berkshire Eagle in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. It's the far Western.

33:29
point you can't go any further west without hitting New York State. And yeah, you know, it was a really it was a wonderful first job for me. You know, it was one of those like the Berkshires were such an interesting place to work because on the one hand, there's a lot of vacation homes for wealthy Northeasterners, but there's also like abject poverty from locals. A lot of people who were former GE employees, General Electric had a headquarters over there and it shut down. I believe in the

33:58
or maybe it was the early 2000s. I think it was the 90s. And so the whole county was trying to figure out its own economic identity after GE left. And I wrote actually, there was a big influence on my Hulk annual that I wrote last year, which was about a small town that was sort of the adjunct to Los Diablos missile base. And when the Hulk is created, that missile base shuts down and suddenly the whole town is kind of in dire straits financially. So,

34:28
You know, there's some, there was a lot of interesting crime going on. You know, there was a, there was gang violence. Um, uh, I believe it was the Crips, um, would like send their kind of their up and comers to that neck of the woods. It was the Crips of the Bloods. Um, they would, they would send their up and comers, um, uh, from there because it's like, it's a little harder if you're in Albany or it's a little harder if you're in Springfield. Uh, but like Berkshires, like that's, you know, it's like finishing school. So, you know, you'd have like, you'd have the occasional like, um,

34:56
you know, somebody winding up in the hospital because like, you know, they get slashed across the face. The snitches get stitches. There was drugs for sure. Also, though, there was like sometimes just like rural crime. You know, there was a there's a period for a while where there was like a pair of there was a farm that had like two guard llamas that were bow and arrowed. What? I guess there's a lot of impact in that sentence. Guard llama and then they were bow and arrowed? Yeah, yeah.

35:24
You know, so like, you know, there's rural crime. And then also, it's like, you know, it's Western Massachusetts. So, you know, the weather can be kind of extreme. And so, you know, what happens if like a town like Beckett or Otis, you know, when there's a snowstorm, that means the, that entire town is without power, you know, or car accidents and things like that. Um, on top of sort of being like a semi forgotten part of the state. And so how, how, you know, are they interacting with, uh, the decision makers in Beacon Hill?

35:54
You know, in Boston proper. And so, yeah, those, you know, it was a really interesting gig. You know, I used to call the police stations every night, you know, get a sense of like what was going on. And yeah, and I don't necessarily feel like I brought, like the specifics of the crime beat to my work. I think my actual journalism training was crucial. Become a comics writer, you know, taught me how to write on deadline. It taught me how to write kind of modularly.

36:23
I'm you know like because you only have a certain amount of space to to to to fill so you have to prioritize what you're gonna say and sometimes you get a good quote you write it somewhere and then. You look at the thing a little bit later and like that quotes buried like i got a bump it up it kinda walk off the transition from the top of the bottom and you can bring it back up and rewrite the transitions i do that for my scene work all the time. I'm talking not to be afraid of a blank page taught me that i had to be resourceful coming up with my own stories.

36:52
It taught me kind of the value of publicity and how to write a press release and how to interact with publicists because I was on the other end of it on top of boon lighting and comics journalism. I worked the evening shift, so I'd usually get in around 3 to 11 at my newspaper job and then I'd go to bed and then in the morning at like 10 a.m. I'd be writing stuff for News

37:21
Yeah, it was a really wonderful period of my life. It was certainly a young man's game. I look back on it and I don't know how I was juggling basically two full-time jobs while teaching myself how to write creatively. But yeah, I don't think I would have this career if I hadn't had that time at the Berkshire Eagle. You said something interesting there where you said that your journalism background, the crime reporting,

37:49
gave you confidence that you weren't afraid of a blank page. But on the rare occasion, and I guess even maybe today, talking about today, how do you overcome writer's block when and if you run into that? Do you have a little thingy-doo or something you go towards? How do you overcome writer's block when it comes up? Well, I think the first decision I have to make is that like,

38:13
Am I not feeling anything because I'm not feeling anything or am I not feeling anything because I am physically or mentally exhausted? If it's your physically or mentally exhausted, the answer is simple because it usually comes down to have you eaten? Have you have you hydrated? Have you slept? Have you showered? And if the answer to any of these things is no, you do those things. And I think once you're sort of past that, you know, the the the Maslow's hierarchy of needs of it all.

38:43
Um, sometimes you just got to write through it. Um, you know, I, I think it was. I think Brian Kay von said something like this. I'm, I'm, it's a messy paraphrase, but like everybody's got like a hundred thousand crappy words to them. Um, and you have to write through all of them to get to the good words. And I don't think that you need to write a hundred thousand words to get to any good words. I think they're kind of the good words are kind of mashed up in there, but you have to kind of churn through all those crappy words. Um, and I feel like I'm still churning through crappy words.

39:12
you know, it's just statistics. So for me, my thinking is just write, just write anything, even if I'm chucking 99% of it tomorrow, it means I've written through the crappy words, and hopefully up a little closer to the good ones. I think beyond that, you know, like I'm very fortunate, like, you know, I like, I bounce ideas off my friends, I bounce ideas off my fiance, like, you know, just, you know, half the time, it's just, hey, I have a stupid idea.

39:42
what do you think of and half the time while you're writing it, just typing it out, you're like, that is a stupid idea or oh, you know what, that's the way to fix that. I mean, but yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's just, it's a numbers game. It's, it's how much, how many hours are you going to put your butt in the chair and write through stuff? You know, but I think it's also like being gentle with yourself as much as you can, you know, like, of course you have deadlines to hit, but also like

40:10
being gentle with yourself on those deadlines and triaging them as best you can and knowing that sometimes you just need, you need to take a nap. Sometimes you need to unplug for the night. I tend to, every Friday I just unplug because I know that that Friday night and gearing back up on Saturday morning, that's sort of my refresh for the week. All solid advice, but for some reason, I am stuck on step one to overcoming writer's block.

40:38
Have you shit showered and shaved? If yes, proceed to step two. Yes. That's something that, or I guess, adding another one, have you taken your vitamins? Yeah, that's it. I feel like that took me a little while to figure out, oh, my GNC Mega Men vitamin. If I don't have that, my day has gone from an A to an A minus. So just take the damn pills. You'll feel better.

41:04
Take care of yourself. This episode was brought to you by GNC. Make sure you get your multi-potamons. I've also heard the other recurring piece of advice that I hear from a lot of writers that have on the show is that in order to be a good writer, you've got to also do a lot of reading as well and see how it's done. When you think about writers that have inspired you, whether that be in the comic book space or even outside of the comic book space, who are some names that come to mind for you?

41:34
If you had to create a Mount Rushmore of comic book writers that you feel like are your personal all-time favorite, who would be on that Mount Rushmore? Yeah, well, the author who I consider to be the Rosetta Stone for everything I've ever written is Devin Grayson. She's a wonderful writer who also does not get her fair shake in the industry, but she wrote a book called Batman Gotham Knights that came out in the early 2000s that I think is

42:04
some of the best Batman storytelling ever committed to paper. And I think that has greatly influenced my work. You can see it from like my very first book to even what I'm doing in Space Ghost. You know, kind of like this cool balancing act of like action and drama, but also these like really heartfelt moments. So she's definitely up there. Geoff Johns, I love both his pacing, but also like the way that he

42:32
mixes character work and metaphor work. He did an issue of justice society of america it's one of my favorite comics ever it's called bells and whistles and it's about it's about how jesse quick became liberty bell and and and basically why her mantra is a cracked bell it's because spoilers just because something's broken doesn't mean you you throw it away and you know or just because something has a crack in it doesn't mean you throw it.

43:00
I thought that was a really powerful sentiment and I think that speaks to a lot of his other books. You know, that's why I like the emotional spectrum, you know, caught on in the way that it did in his Green Lantern run. You can see it in a lot of his other books as well. I just read his new Rook Exodus book that I thought it was actually spectacular. Rick Remender. Rick Remender has, he's so good with dialogue and he's so good with pacing. His run on Punisher.

43:28
was actually a huge influence to the way that I approach my Punisher miniseries. Um, you know, the way that he does action is, uh, I think, uh, some of the best in the business and, and, and his books like Uncanny X-Force and Uncanny Avengers and, and, and his Punisher run and his, and, uh, uh, there's some of the, my favorite things, um, Dan Slott, Dan's a big influence on me. Um, he's actually one of the first creators that, uh, I ever really kind of corresponded with. He, um, he taught, uh, for one.

43:58
For one section, he taught an intro to comics writing class for a comics experience in New York City during my internship. And so I got to know Dan right before he jumped on the Spider-Man titles. I think they had just announced him on Mighty Avengers actually at that point. And Dan has been such a wonderfully supportive guy and just, I wish I was half as talented as he was. He's really, the way that he balances humor, but also like the intricate way that he plots things is, that's maybe more aspirational than.

44:27
I guess Greg Pak is another one. Greg Pak is a guy who I think I owe my career to. He's the guy, I did a bunch of interviews at Newsarama, a lot of process related stuff, because I wanted to learn about the nuts and bolts as well. And he told me, everybody sucks when you start, everybody sucks, you're allowed to be bad when you're learning how to write. And that was like, that was the light bulb moment for me. Because I up to that point thought, oh, you're either born with it or you're not.

44:58
And that's wrong. I mean, listen, learning how to write a comic is just like learning how to build a chair. Don't tell me, oh, you're bored with it if you don't, don't learn how to build a chair. All you gotta do is practice and build a lot of crappy chairs. So I think those are the ones that immediately spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others that I haven't thought of at the moment.

45:24
David, you handled that question like a boss. I'm surprised how quick you were able to rattle off that list. And I'll be honest with you, I was not familiar with Devin Grayson. And for anyone that's listening that might have got their ears perked at that, if you type in Batman Gotham Knight, you're going to be bombarded with everything but what we're talking about here. And you're going to want to search Batman Gotham Knight's transference. And a little fun fact here.

45:53
That's news to me. This made history as the first ongoing Batman series to be launched by a woman. And now this popular series will be collected together for the first time ever. So there's a trade paper back out if you're curious about it. I've already got it in my cart. You brought up who was it? Rick Remender in Punisher. And I understand that you're the man that Marvel called on to take on the very big responsibility of writing the new Punisher that was introduced after Frank Castle.

46:22
bit the bullet, no pun intended, terrible pun at that. But you know, you were responsible for the revamp of Punisher and bringing a whole new character to the Marvel comic universe. How did that feel to have that responsibility on your shoulders? What pressure, if any, did you feel being responsible for revamping an iconic character like Punisher, who for better or worse has a lot of history with Marvel comics and just comics in general, but has also touched so many creators lives? Some I imagine that like,

46:51
maybe you've looked up to or you call colleagues now, like how did you navigate that assignment and the pressures that come with it? Yeah, you know, it's funny because I think my Punisher miniseries, it had certain things in common with the way that I'm approaching Space Ghost, but in other ways, I think it was like completely diametrically the opposite. Space Ghost, you know, like we've talked about, it already had a lot of pre-existing lore that we could kind of draw from and develop. Whereas I think the trickiest thing about Punisher,

47:19
whether it's frank cast or or jill garrison our new punisher there's very little in the way of like a rogues gallery because you tend not to survive fighting the punisher more than once. There's only a small number of people and on top of that we were kind of creating a brand new character whole cloth and not only that but a character who. I'm the punishers a controversial character in the marvel universe but is also controversial in the real world.

47:48
And so that was something that we really talked about at length. I think we were developing that book for close to two months, you know, just back and forth, daily emails with me and Tom Brewer, because it's one of those things, if we're inventing a new punisher, if we're starting him from the ground up, we know that there are a lot of political minefields on all sides of the political spectrum. And so how do we kind of thread the needle and avoid any of those landmines that,

48:17
You know if you step on them in the wrong way that becomes the character that just consumes the character and so you know like one one thing that I really took a consideration was. You know like the punishes fun character obviously i would never if i had that came from actually me writing punish her twenty ninety nine. In the pages of savage avengers i'd ask to use him in our second arc and my editors really like how i did it so that's got that got me this this gig.

48:45
The Punisher is a fun character, but he's also, I feel like it should go without saying, but it doesn't, is that he's like the ultimate don't try this at home character. I don't think I've ever heard him put that way, but I think I'm going to start using that. Yeah. I mean, I don't consider the Punisher to be like an aspirational figure, but there are some who do view him that way. I do think it becomes a little chilling sometimes if you hear somebody in law enforcement with

49:14
That guy, that guy's my guy. And I'm like, that guy whose whole deal is that like, he's above the law, that like extrajudicial vigilantism, you know, just Old Testament. And so for me, something I really wanted to do was I wanted to make sure that like our punisher was on a little bit of a higher shelf. You know, that like Joe Garrison, the way that I had pitched him was sort of as the John Wick of SHIELD. And that like, it's a fictional.

49:42
You cannot you know, you can't be part of shield in the real world. You cannot pick up shield hardware at your local Walmart You know it you need very very very specific training to be the Punisher But also like how do we focus on the choreography of it all which is why I went into sort of the gunfu of John Wick Because you know you look back at some of those 90s Punisher books they had a whole series called the Punisher armory that was literally just like basically a guns and ammo catalog it was just like

50:11
this is this gun that Frank Castle uses. It wasn't even a story, it was just a collection of pinups of weapons. You know, like the 90s were a different time. That sounds so weird hearing that, like with today's like lens. Yeah. Like it made sense in the 90s, but you hear that now, you're like, wait, it's a book of illustrated guns? You know, they got like real gun magazines, you know? You know, it was one of those things, the Punisher was so popular back then that like they just wanted to have as much content as possible. And so being able to do all that,

50:39
And then I thought the other thing that I thought was really important is, um, and I learned this, I knew this was going to happen. Um, and then when we announced at San Diego Comic Con, I was proven correct is that like the Punisher is one of those characters, wherever you stand on the political spectrum, everyone has a very loud opinion of what they think a Punisher story should look like, where they think a Punisher story should not go, what they think a Punisher story should be. And oftentimes they're diametrically opposite to, to, to, to literally anybody else. And so,

51:07
For me, it was kind of like trying to bring down the temperature of the room rather than like punch and counter punch, but also kind of ask myself like, what are the questions that everybody's really getting? And so the thing, the question that I kind of boiled everything down to was, don't you think everything's just like hopelessly rigged against the little guy that like society's like a little broken people fall through the cracks and, and, and the people in charge just either can't or won't help.

51:36
And that's where I felt like that was sort of my angle for Joe Garrison as the Punisher was I wanted to make him a Punisher for the people. That if the law cannon won't help you, this is the guy you turn to to help you settle the score. And I felt like that was something that kind of really threaded the needle in that like it still is a comic that feels like a Punisher comic, but one that, you know, kind of escapes any baggage. One that is like kind of very firmly planted on like

52:06
doing, you know, it's still the greater good. And also a character that I think cross pollinates maybe a little easier with other Marvel characters because like, listen, like, I love Garth Ennis's work. It's spectacular. But like, when the moment you have Frank Castle throwing like, a quadruple amputee into a fire pit, like you can't be like, and next month, he's teaming up with Spider-Man. It's kind of a tonal clash. And so

52:35
You know, having a character like Joe, who is sort of tailor made to play around in the various corners of the Marvel universe. That was kind of something that Marvel and I kind of were on the same page on pretty quickly. So I'm very excited. They actually just announced this week where Joe's going to show up next. Erika Schultz just announced her new Daredevil, The Woman Without Fear book, starring Electra Nachos as Daredevil.

53:03
And I had heard rumblings that Joe would be showing up on the page of that book. And I saw that they just announced that in their, in their announcement, press release this week. So I'm super thrilled. Cause I think having a legacy character, like it needs to, it needs to trade hands to give that character some, some, some, some, some runway. You know, I could have written Joe Garrison for a hundred issues, but if it was just me, and then the moment I leave, it's sort of like, well, that was Peppos's pet.

53:31
We don't need to do anything with it. I think the only way that a legacy character really works is if other creators have buy-in. So I think I was very thrilled for Eric to be taking that on. And so I can't wait to see where Joe winds up next. That was such a good summation of that entire series. I'm going to introduce you to someone that loves that series big time here in a couple of minutes. But sticking to Marvel really quick,

54:01
I noticed that you are also credited as writing two Marvel Unlimited Infinity comics, Avengers Unlimited and Spiderverse Unlimited the Infinity comic. As someone that uses Marvel Unlimited, I enjoy the Infinity comics a lot. For anyone that maybe isn't familiar with the Marvel Unlimited Infinity comics, it is their take on, just for lack of better terms, for easy comparison to webtoons. It's a vertical formatted comic book.

54:30
that you read on the app. And they sometimes will take existing comic books and convert them into this vertical format. I think I read Jason Aaron's God Butcher series in that format. But sometimes they'll also just create original comic books. And I think, David, you're a prime example of that. They gave you two original Infinity comics. And I'm curious from the writer perspective, and maybe if you could fill me in on the art side too, is there any difference in how you approach writing?

55:00
knowing that the literal format of the comic book is vastly different than what most people are used to when it comes to buying a floppy and turning the page. Now they're scrolling, and it literally kind of lives up to that. It lives up to the name of it feeling like an infinity, very seamless experience. Can you talk about writing for Marvel Infinity Comics? I had so much fun working on those comics. I did one chapter of Spider-Verse Unlimited, and then I did.

55:28
the opening arc of Avengers Unlimited and then a later arc tying in with the Guardians of the Galaxy volume 3. And first off, I mean, just being able to play with like those big, those big toys. Because I think when you're starting out, like the fact that I was able to say within my first year and a half at Marvel, I had written the Avengers and Spider-Man. And like it's in it and it counts like that was a flex right there. Yeah, I mean, you know, like, like, you know, I wish I could have gone back in time and told my seven year old self this.

55:57
But I think, yeah, my first arc in Avengers Unlimited, the first like chapter or two was a little bit of a learning curve and then I got it. It's actually a much simpler way of writing a comic because instead of when you're thinking it, when you're writing a comic, you have to not only tell your whole story in a finite amount of space, but you also have to break it up page to page. And so you have to figure out like, okay.

56:23
this page is gonna have nine panels to it, and this page is gonna be a splash page, and this page is gonna be three panels, and this one's gonna be five. And you're kinda pacing out the rhythm. You don't have to do that in an Infinity comic. For those, it's really, I know that I have to tell my story in anywhere in 35 to 42 beats. And it's how do I make sure that I'm hitting the action where everything's moving as quickly as possible?

56:53
Um, so yeah, you know, I think sometimes you're thinking about like, Oh, you know, do I throw in an inset somewhere, you know, so it's like a panel that some, maybe it's something that's operating in the gutter, you know, or something that's like doing a small overlap with other panels or am I doing a split screen, you know? Um, but I think beyond that, um, also you don't really have, you have to write much tighter. So you don't, it kind of forces you to, to drop a lot of the other, uh, techniques that might add drag. So like you're probably not going to be doing.

57:22
internal narration or if you are it's gonna be kind of it's gonna be if you do that that means your dialogue is gonna be minimal. You know like you kind of you don't have multiple tracks of narration to put into your thing so it moves a lot faster. And those are really the two things that slow me down the most in writing a script. So yeah once I kind of got into my groove writing that first Avengers Unlimited arc I know like my Spider-Verse

57:52
Um, you know, those scripts I can usually crank out in like three days a pop, whereas like writing a normal script usually takes me five to six days. Um, it moves much faster. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, you know, the only thing I think that, that, that bums me out a little about this is just, uh, you know, um, I think those, those books go a little overlooked. Um, I feel like the work that I did on Avengers Unlimited, particularly my, my Avengers and Guardians team up.

58:21
Is some of like I think some of the best work I've done at Marvel But it's I think the work that like nobody's heard of so Yeah, I think I really enjoy that process and I know that they've sort of switched gears a bit in that like Rather than kind of having people popping in and out for different arcs, which is what they did our first year I believe they've sort of switched gears now towards like single creative teams doing longer runs And so I wish I could play in that sandbox again. I really enjoyed it

58:51
I don't know when the next time I will, but yeah, I had a lot of fun. Yeah, it's just refreshing. It's a fun way of reading a comic book. It's a really fun aspect to the Marvel Unlimited app. Dave, you're among a pretty good roster of writers and creatives that have been given the opportunity to do a unique or original Infinity comic. I think Jonathan Hickman.

59:15
got to do one for like an X-Men, Krakoa tie-in. And then I think Declan Shelby got to do a Wolverine one. So I think you mentioned that you feel like the Avengers one might be some of your best work and it's overlooked. But I think give it a couple of years. And I think that'll really start becoming maybe not the norm, but I think there'll be a bigger spotlight on it. I think more people will check it out. Because for a digital reading experience, it just makes a lot of sense.

59:40
And I guess maybe that's why Webtoons is doing so well, because they've kind of figured out how to make it a seamless experience. Yeah. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head is that it feels very seamless in a way that scrolling left to right, like if you're reading it on a digital is a little less intuitive. So yeah, I think the Infinity things, not only are they just they're fun to read, but I think it's also just a fun way to kind of showcase.

01:00:09
a whole bunch of talent that you might not know. I know Jason Moore from a book called Veracious and By the Horns. I believe he's doing, I think he might be doing a Spider-Man Unlimited run right now. You know, and he's a super talented artist and I couldn't be more thrilled for him. So yeah, being able to kind of see, you know, Derek Landy did a long run on Avengers United recently, 26 part storyline, I think it was.

01:00:39
these creators a chance to strut their stuff. I think that's my favorite part of the Unlimited Stories. And it kind of has all the fun of an anthology, but I think you get a longer runway to tell even cooler stories. Well said. And I guess on the topic of unique formats and reading experiences, particularly for Marvel, I noticed that you also have basically a credit in almost every single.

01:01:07
a red, white, and black anthology series that they put out. Maybe not all of them, but I know that you wrote a short story for the Darth Vader, red, white, and black, Moon Knight, and I believe Electra as well. And I gotta say, those might be some of my favorite books to trade weight, because a lot of times, they'll come out in treasury kind of size edition or oversized, and those just look so good. And the fact that they all follow the motif of just being those three colors

01:01:37
And then the creative lineups sometimes are like, whoa, wait a minute. I think Daniel Warren Johnson did a Darth Vader short story. And then you're in there. And then you might not be surprised if you see an OG creator get a chance to do a short story. What do you prefer? Do you enjoy those having the opportunity to do a quick little one-off, six-page, eight-page story? Or do you prefer the longer runs? And what comes with that commitment? Yeah. I mean, you know.

01:02:07
Honestly, I mean, being able to do short stories is fun, but it's definitely a different muscle group. You know, I think when you're doing that, it's very much it's instinctively a little bit more of either a character piece or like an interesting structural trick. And maybe sometimes like a combination thereof. Whereas you know, as somebody who has had to write things tight, like, you know, I wrote Punisher in Four Issues.

01:02:35
And I think that was the toughest part of that entire assignment was just how do we tell this whole story for issues? That's not like a huge runway. And so I will say like working on something like Space Ghost, I've certainly developed a taste for longer runs, you know, but I know they're hard to come by in this business and given this market and how volatile it is right now. And so, yeah, I don't think there's, you know, it's really six and one half dozen of the other. I mean, there are certain characters where, you know,

01:03:05
they might be a little intimidating to you. And so having kind of that tighter runway to kind of grapple with it and get used to it, like that's very useful. Like I don't think I could have ever hit the ground running on Spider-Man, you know? But writing a one-off on Spider-Man, like that's my favorite character in all of fiction. Like I was able to kind of handle that. And so now I know like if I ever get the opportunity to, you know, go to bat and write another Spider-Man story.

01:03:31
I can always like, if I panic, I can always say, but you wrote this one and people liked it. Um, so yeah, I think, um, you know, I will say like over the course of my career, I have learned that like, I, and I think a lot of people tend to do this as well, but like you tend to try to like predict what your, what your future holds. And then you invariably frustrated because things are not the way that you had planned. And so the thing that I've really kind of taught myself, uh, in, in recent years is

01:04:02
you know, uh, uh, band plans and God laughs, you know, like you have control or any of this stuff. All you can do is kind of when the wave shows up, you write it, um, you know, and, and, and you kind of just keep taking swings and then you will find yourself in the right place at the right time. I'm sure there's a method to the madness. I'm sure the universe provides. I don't know what that met. I don't know what the method behind the madness is, but I just try to roll with it as best as I can. Man, well said. And that is one of my favorite quotes. Uh,

01:04:30
Man plans, God laughs. And I think applicable here too is my other favorite quote, which is the Bruce Lee infamous, be water, adapt to whatever situation you're in and go with the flow. David, I wanna shift gears here and get back to Space Ghost, but I think I found the perfect bridge from talking Marvel and Punisher. I wanna introduce you to maybe one of the biggest fans of your work that I personally know, and he is a good friend of the show because he is.

01:04:58
the owner of my local comic shop, Gotham City Limit. He's also the sponsor of the, a long time sponsor of the show. I always give him dibs to send in a question anytime I have an interesting person on the show to interview, I always give him a chance to chime in. Because you know, I always wanna also put a spotlight on the, you know, the lifeblood of comic books, being the local comic shop. So he sends in a question for you that I'm excited for you to hear this voice message. So here we go.

01:05:25
Hey David, Ben K Gotham City Limit, Jacksonville, Florida here. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer a question. Before I jump in, I just wanted to let you know, we follow you on your social media platforms and the passion that you bring to your projects, especially recently Punisher and now Space Ghost is unbelievably refreshing. Coming from a comic shop owner who only makes money if I sell said comics, having writers, artists, publishers.

01:05:54
who are as passionate as you are, really help us, mean the world to us, and give us reassurance this is the reason we own comic shops. Now, let's jump into my question. I'm 44 years old. I've dabbled in some Space Ghost in the 80s when I was on TV here and there, but I don't believe I've ever seen Space Ghost's actual face. Can you confirm or deny that they've ever shown it on the cartoon? And a second question for you.

01:06:24
Let's imagine 2024 is the year of Space Ghost. Five years from now, Space Ghost, the live action film is set to hit movie theaters. Who do you envision as playing the role? Well, I'll leave you to answer. Thanks so much. Good luck on Space Ghost. And remember, Short Box Nation, always take it to the limit. You know, big shout out to Ben. Oh, that was great. I mean, I've been writing on that all day. Thank you, Ben, for all this.

01:06:53
work and for asking the question. Yeah, so to answer your questions, this is not counting Coast to Coast because that's a much wider runway. But as far as I'm aware, they've never showed Space Ghost's face in the cartoons. They have shown his face in comics, but yes, they have never shown it in the cartoons. You'll see Space Ghost's face a very

01:07:22
So far in what I've written, I think you can count on one hand the number of panels maybe two um As far as who would play space ghost hmm Boy somebody had a really good Recommendation they told me this a few weeks ago, and I'm trying to remember what it was But I will say the one that I had been leaning towards was John Hamm Yeah, I think I think John can really kind of play up

01:07:53
I think the complexity of that character, particularly a guy who in our run, you know, he comes from a place of tragedy. You know, he's the sole survivor of his planet that was attacked by space pirates. They now refer to it as the ghost planet. And so that's what's kicked him off in his crusade to fight hijackers and space pirates as he wants to, you know, stop other people from experiencing the tragedy that shaped his life.

01:08:18
But the same time he's been very isolated you know he's the reason he calls himself space ghosty wears a mask this is a guy who i see is very much kind of like push his humanity way down. You know it's just been the mission and that's i think the cool thing about our series is that our first issue it's how does he cross paths with jenny jason blip and how does that immediately kind of force him to reckon with that humanity that he's had buried away for so long.

01:08:45
And you know, I think that that that that leads to some interesting emotions. You know, at certain times he's he's a little he's a little crabby about it, you know, because anybody who has a problem when they're being even, you know, indirectly having to confront that they have a problem, you know, there's there's a little bit of resistance to that. And, you know, this was a guy who was single. He had his his own way of doing things. But also he was in this, I think, form of emotional stasis. You know, he hadn't really moved on.

01:09:15
from these tragedies and I think having these kids in his orbit, you know, in his face all the time, I think that's going to force him to kind of open up and force him to warm up, even if he might sometimes have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do it. And so I think somebody like Jon Hamm, I think could really kind of embody a lot of that, you know, both the like the cool grandeur of the superhero moments, but also like

01:09:39
the kind of sometimes like the snide banter with the kids. Also these like, I think very heartfelt moments when like he realizes that like he cares for these kids. And like, that's the thing about being a parent is that it's your heart running around on the outside. And so I think yeah, Jon Hamm would be my pick for Space Ghost. But there are a lot of cool actors out there. So I wouldn't listen, if there's a Space Ghost movie that ever comes out, I will be the first in line to buy a ticket.

01:10:08
Obviously, I got that question a little early, so it's been on my mind, kind of rattling on my mind too. And I think if I'm going off of your first issue, just strictly off the first issue, Carl Urban comes to mind. I think he's great. I'm thinking about Judge Dredd and just how chiseled he looked and menacing, and not menacing, but just rugged and tense, the authority that he carries with his facial expressions. Think about the boys and Judge Dredd.

01:10:38
I think he would make a stellar adaptation. I think he would do your Space Ghost from this first issue like immense justice. I think Carl Orwell would be a great Space Ghost. Yeah, no, he's a fantastic actor. So I would certainly not say no to that. For sure. And once again, big shout out to Ben for that question. Space Ghost issue one comes out May 1st, Wednesday, May 1st, so a week from the time that this episode airs.

01:11:06
Where will you be on May 1st, Wednesday? Are you so far in your career where maybe it's just regular day to you, or do you make a habit to maybe go to a comic shop and pick up your first issue? So I will be. I'll actually be picking up my books probably the night before at the Comic Bug, my local comic shop. Wonderful people. They've supported me since my very first book. But yeah, anytime there's a launch day,

01:11:35
I'm pushing, I'm promoting the book. I will probably be at home, interacting with as many fans as I can, sharing any publicity, any reviews about the book, and just trying to get the word out and just trying to make it so people can't ignore us and that people are reminded to pick up their issue of Space Ghost at their local comic shop. Yeah, I mean, I always see launch day as like a real celebratory day.

01:12:03
I don't really get a whole lot of work done that day because I consider the work to be pushing the book. So yeah, that's where I'll be May 1st. But you can find me at Emerald Nights Comics on free comic book day. That's Saturday as well as the comic book in Culver City that Sunday. So stop by. I'll sign some books for you. There we go. I'm going to have links to your socials. I'm going to have links to some previews for Space Ghost in the show notes. So I got you covered there. But do you have...

01:12:30
Anything that you want to say any parting words maybe upcoming projects we didn't get around to No, I think you know tell your local comic shop to pre-order space ghost You can also order the my horror series the devil the words my face from mad cave studios. That's a face-off meets the exorcist Yeah, you can follow me on Twitter Instagram and blue sky at pep post D David Peppos comics on Facebook you can go to my website David pep post comm or subscribe to my newsletter pep talks at bit.ly slash pep news

01:12:58
And with that being said, thank you guys so much for hanging out and for listening and I'll catch you next week. David, once again, thank you so much for your time, man. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. There you have it, ShortBikes Nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at thes And if you really liked this episode,

01:13:27
Help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks, like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box.

01:13:56
It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box. Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Ciotani, Tony Aupi, RC Gamet, Blake Simone, Blythe Brumleaf, Bo Evers, Brian Brumleaf, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker, Chris Jinx, David Morales, Triple D Mystic, Dominique Jackson, Errol White, Edbot 5000, Generation Jaguar.

01:14:26
Greg Hopkins, Greg Lichthag, Henry Hernandez, Hershel, Hydrus96 aka Mack, Jay Sinner, Jeff Frimmid, Jerome Cabanatan, Joshua Miller, Justin McCoy, Kara Reichardt, Cassie Whitley, Corey Torteson, Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin, Nick Wagner, Podcasters Assemble, Steven Gamet, T-Mix, The Wait For It Podcast, Thomas Pandich, Thurian, Trey Namo, Walter Gant, Warren Evans, and Zach Armour.

01:14:53
Thanks again to everyone that listens and supports this show. Be sure to come back next week for a new episode. And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon.