An Interview with Jeff Dekal about Creating Art and Meeting Opportunity -The Short Box Podcast Ep. 431

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Intro music plays

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Yo, Shortbox Nation, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for being here. If you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Shortbox Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comic books with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. And today I'm joined by freelance illustrator and cover artist extraordinaire, Jeff DeKal. Jeff broke into the comic book scene in 2013 by providing painted covers for Marvel's Journey into Mystery series.

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Since then, his unique style, which incorporates fine art, abstraction, and realism, has graced the covers of books from publishers like AWA, Marvel, DC, Image, Boom, and Heavy Metal. By the time this episode comes out, you can see his signature style on the covers of comics like Batman and Superman, World's Finest, Penthouse Comics, and on the 1 in 50 variant cover for Werewolf by Night number one, which will be in shops in August.

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Jeff is on the show today to talk about how he got his shot in comics, his process for creating some of the most unique and captivating covers out there, and what else he's got going on in his world. So without further ado, let's welcome Jeff DeKal to the show. Hey, Jeff. Welcome to the show, man. Glad to have you. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. It was a nice intro, man. So thank you for that. No, absolutely, man. It's well earned, man. Well earned. You've been one of my favorite cover artists working in the industry.

02:54
You got a very unique style and I think your cover stand out and the stands among the hundreds of books that come out every week. So it's nice to finally have you on the show. Thanks, man. Yeah, it's walking into a comic shop can be super overwhelming and like you said, to stand out on that shelf is not an easy thing to do, man. So I appreciate you recognizing that and anybody else who does as well. For sure.

03:22
Let's go ahead and get this part of the way just in case we've got anyone that is curious about what you got currently going on and how they can get a hold of your art. What projects are you currently working on? I know that some of the solicitations I saw were things like you got a cover for Batman, Superman, World's Finest coming out. I think you've got a cover for Red Light, which is through AWA and then obviously that Werewolf by Night cover coming out in August. Do you have anything else lined up?

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Yeah, the world's finest and the AWA books, though I've finished those. You know, I finished the work before they're solicited and released. So I finished those. But yeah, but those are coming out in shops currently. They're well off by night. I literally just turned that in yesterday, but I know they like solicited, like my name will be on the list or whatever beforehand. So yeah, that was a cool one to do. Um, um, I won't spoil it. What's on the cover. I mean, yeah.

04:18
the main characters are on the cover, but that was fun for me to do. And then I'm working on some stuff for Boom that I can, it's two projects. I can talk about both of them, but I want to leave one as a surprise. But the other one, the other one's really cool. The other one is like a horror anthology of like a compilation of short horror stories that Boom is putting out, which is super interesting. And they asked me to do a cover for that. And the editor, man, Sky Bryce is...

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really cool, you know, he wanted me to do something real like specific to me and I had this really weird dream a little while ago and I wanted to do something with it and I kind of sketched it out and sent it to him. I told him it was like based on a dream I had. It's like borderline horror, weird fantasy surrealism. But yeah, he was all about it. So that's cool. I'm doing that.

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I'm doing a Power Girl cover. I'm doing, I just finished the World of My Night, the horror one, this other one for Boom, Power Girl. And oh, and then I'm doing another Penthouse cover, which is really cool. So I'm doing those professionally. And then man, then I've been working on my own story for years and I wrote a story and I'm turning it into a graphic novel. So anytime I have free time, that's my go-to. And I don't know when that's gonna be out. I mean, every year I say it's gonna be out next year,

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My problems are so amazing because I just keep getting cool gigs that I don't want to turn down. That's why I can't get to it. So yeah, so I always got a lot on my plate, which I'm so thankful for. And I just do my best. Well, I'm glad to hear an update on that, the creator-owned story because I was obviously doing a research for the show when I came across a 2018 interview. And you had mentioned working on a creator-owned story at that time.

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And you mentioned you were going to be writing it, as well as painting all the sequential panels inside of it. Is that the same project that you're talking about now, or has that kind of gone and shifted and changed? Oh, yeah, man. That's the only thing that I've spoken about as far as a personal project for so many years. Yep, same one. Every panel is basically painted. Every panel more or less looks like my covers, maybe an abbreviated version. But.

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It's insane. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into when I started it. I again, the whole story is based on another dream that I had. And it's rare that I have these like vivid and very memorable dreams. But when I do, I like to kind of exalt them and kind of do something with them. And and I have so I kind of developed the dream. It's not the exact dream I had, but I kind of adapted and developed it into a story and much different than the weird, surreal horror dream I had.

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completely different. But yeah, man, that's what I've been working on. And at one point, I kind of had anxiety that I wanted to stress that I wanted to get it out and this and that. But I just kind of given up on worrying when it's going to be out and just kind of letting it flow out of me when I have the time and my life permits. And I feel like when it is ready, it will reach the people that it's meant to reach and I just hope it's received well.

07:40
I can patiently wait on that. Sounds like a story that needs to come out, but has got to go through its natural course. So I'll be on the look out for that for sure. Now, Jeff, you have had, we're talking about these covers that you're working on. And it sounds like you pretty much worked on or provided a cover art for just about every publisher you could name out there. Do you personally have time to go into a comic shop? Are you reading current comics? And if it's not comics, what books are you reading? What type of entertainment are you enjoying?

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when you're not working on comics? Yeah, I don't keep up with what's going on in the major publishers and stuff like that. It's I've never really kept up with comics. What I will do is if there's an artist I really admire and they do like like an arc, you know, I'll wait till that's in a in a trade paperback and I'll grab that. And I love that stuff. I like

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uh finding old old stuff i just found a bunch of old weird mobius stories i went on ebay and and bought and bought a bunch of those um there's always cool stuff come out like ram v is putting out really cool stuff lately he just he just comes to mind immediately like the leyla star stuff um this new stuff that he's doing yeah yeah yeah man i read that i actually bought that issue one i don't ever like just buy single issues but i was like this looks so

09:07
So cool, the art's amazing, Evan Cagle. I think that's how you pronounce his name. He's amazing. Yeah, that dude is a beast. I think I read a story that Rambe found Evan via Instagram. I think Evan had posted an Evangelion artwork, and even Rambe was like, yo, I need this guy for this book, ASAP. Yeah, man. Yeah. And the artistry is obviously just next level, man.

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I've been doing this for, I've been an art fan before I was an artist. So as a child, man, like art just always blew me away. So honestly, man, I'm a little hard to impress and I like that. So when I see stuff that impresses me, it really connects with me a lot more. I love like Dave McKean, you know, I love anything he does is amazing.

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Yeah, man,

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love that everything about that company Axel is amazing all the editors are amazing so so they actually do come to me and they send me the script and they do ask me to kind of formulate the covers I just don't think that the bigger publisher you know Marvel DC I just don't think they need they need that from me yeah which is totally fine it's kind of like makes my job a little bit easier so I'm kind of cool either way as long as I have enough information about the cover to get my job done.

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I guess on the topic of receiving work from publishers and such, I think most comic fans would still be surprised to learn that it's seldom that a cover artist ever receives the full script for the issue. And it sounds like maybe that's more common among the big two. But they might get a couple of notes. And this is just based on conversations I've had with other artists. Like Declan Shelfie had him on the show a couple of weeks ago. And he explained, yeah, I don't really get much in terms of the script.

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I might get a few notes, but my job is to produce an image that sells a book and with very little time at that. And I guess with that in mind, could you speak, if your process differs a little bit, could you speak a little to that? But also, what kind of covers and assignments speak to you? Is it the character? Is it the creative team behind it? Is it the pitch or the publisher and the pay and all that? What speaks to you when you're weighing cover opportunities? Yeah, it's all of the above. It's a recipe.

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You know, most things in life are a recipe. We may not like every ingredient, right? We may only need to like most of the ingredients. But yeah, it's a recipe. And there are there have been times where I may not care for a character, but the character is like doing something out of their wheelhouse in the story or they're going on some journey and they're in a new costume and they're learning some new skill. And then now I'm in because.

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it's the characters in I may not have loved the con the basic context of the character but now they're out of their normal context and they're doing something cool and and then that kind of grabs me also deadlines I mean I've had to say no to all some projects I do literally just do not have the bandwidth and the time to take on so again man it's a recipe it's like it's like how much work am I currently undergoing is the character cool is the

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But yeah, doing covers that reflect storytelling are always awesome, but you need more time for that, more time and dedication to do that. And generally with like varying covers, it is about just making the character look badass, selling the book, making like an awesome moment, like the character is just in this moment. I do try to... I'm totally fine accepting that this is like a pinup and there's no deep...

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concept about it that's can be fun. It's not a big deal. But if even if I do do that, I still try to do it in my way, you know, I still try to do it to where it's going to be recognizable that yeah, this is a pinup. But it's by Jeff DeKal. You know, it's like his his way of doing it. Because it's just important to have our own voice man, especially, especially in this day and age when there's no shortage of shortage of artists and there's, and it's just increasing. So

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you know, look at other people's art for inspiration, take tutorials, you know, if you need to. But honestly, man, it's so important to have, to speak from a place that is from ourself. That was really well said. And if the goal of, you know, being a cover artist is to sell the book, make the character look badass, I think you excel at that in spades. Are there any personal favorite covers that you've done that maybe hold special meaning to you or?

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Maybe that you got to exercise like a different muscle or do something really cool and out of the box with a character? Yeah, there's a few that stick out. Really, I use reference in my work. And anytime I don't think I've ever hired a model, like someone I didn't know. They're all my friends or family or people that live in my building. So anytime I can use.

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like friends and family as characters in my work, I love that and that connects me more. And if I get a pitch or I get a project and I see the character, I immediately like go through the my rolodex of people in my life and my mind and I think who could be this character, you know. So one that sticks out, I did a couple years ago, I did a couple Dune covers for Boom and it was like a, the story was like a prequel to the movies and it was like a young Leto Atreides.

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And I use my nephew, I use my nephew like for that cause he was the right age at the time. Yeah, there's a couple of Catwoman covers I used. I used a friend of mine and those were fun. And then as far as like outside of the box on like style, there was one Catwoman cover. It wasn't on my run with the from the main covers. It was one I did afterwards. It was like Catwoman uncovered. It was like a compilation of some variant covers. And this is really funny because I've told the story a couple of times. I went like...

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It was the same editor, Jessica, the spell Jessica that works for DC. She's great. And I told her, I'm like, I just did Catwoman like pretty traditionally for our run and now I'm going to do this variant cover. I want to do something a little weird, a little dark, you know? And she's like, yeah, yeah, go for it. And she let me do it. And I just kind of did this kind of very abstracted, elongated figure.

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And within the figure, there's a lot of like abstract shapes and stuff. And I really, I have a lot of fun doing that. But the feedback was like, man, this, this isn't Jeff's best cover. I don't know what he was thinking. This and that. And it just made me laugh because, because, because I approached that cover from like a more like fine art kind of direction. And that's a lot of that is in me. And that's a lot of my roots come, come from more fine art. Um, not, not comic.

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But I'm always trying to combine my influences and my styles and kind of find a balance. So it was just funny to see comic fans like not receive that one well. But then they did receive the other ones well because some of them might use more lines and more realism. And it's just it's just funny. You know, it's just it's just it was just funny because I because I because I do have I do have so many influences from graffiti to to to to classic realism to French

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And yeah, I'm always just trying to find an appropriate balance of all those styles for each given project. Man, I'm so glad you brought up the Catwoman Uncovered because I will personally say it is one of my favorite covers from you because of those exact reasons that I think maybe other comic fans don't necessarily like. You mentioned in a past interview that your love of things like fine art, abstraction, realism, graffiti set you apart early in your career.

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But it also made you feel insecure because, you know, the comic industry at the time, and I guess to some extent even now, is very niche in style and work methods. Can you speak to how you overcame that? And do you feel like the industry as a whole has come to appreciate and accept more different styles and such? I don't think I ever overcame it. It's that I was received well. And then that just made me more comfortable.

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with it in this industry. Because yeah, I have mentioned when I first got into the industry, I was like, Oh man, are they going to call me a fraud because I use reference and I'm into portraiture and, and these things. And growing up, I never, I growing up, I would go into the comic shops and I would just, my freaking eyes will pop out of my head just looking at all the covers. And I didn't really read much, but I would watch the cartoons.

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So I would get the story from the cartoons and then I'd get the covers and I'd collect the cards. So I'd have like an aspect of the comics that way and then I'd get the story from the cartoons. But I was just so overwhelmed. So anyway, my point is I didn't grow up drawing sequential art or like drawing in a very comic style. I always loved portraiture and realism and capturing likenesses. I was drawing faces out of magazines.

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and copying my video game, the characters in my video game manuals and drawing my friends. I've done that like my whole life and that's like why I'm good at it. And I used to call myself, I got to stop saying this, but I used to call myself like a portrait artist that just works really hard, you know, because I always felt like I was just kind of, because I was just consumed by like capturing.

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someone's likeness, like taking like a human face and like scribbling some marks on a piece of paper and having it resemble the person. That's like always, I just always love doing that and it's always a challenge and it's always so gratifying tech to capture someone's likeness. So anyway, bringing that into comics is rare. I mean, there's really only a handful of us that are doing that and even less so when I first got into the industry.

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So yeah, I just, I just, it's not that I was insecure. I just, I just wasn't sure like how I was going to be received, but I mean, 11, 12 years later, I am where I am. And, um, and I just love all the people that love my work and that, that do recognize it as kind of standing out. Um, and it's, it's not something I ever really tried to do. And I think that's why I think that's kind of where the success comes from. You know, of course I put in the work and of course I, I, I'm diligent and.

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interested and I'm curious and I'm always trying new things, but I didn't really have to like work at, I didn't have to like put effort into trying to like fit in and I think that's where we fit in the best and I think that that's really important is to accept the places where we may desire, we may have some desire that we want to go to but sometimes we're just not meant for it, you know, or meant for something else and I think embracing that and finding that, you know, it's very difficult for people to find that.

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So like I kind of started off this whole monologue saying is like, I'm just appreciative that I was accepted in and people did like what I was bringing to comics, even though it wasn't something that tends to be common, I guess. You've mentioned that you're using families and family and friends as models for some of these covers and references. Like, do they understand, I guess, the significance of like, hey, you're going to be...

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I'm using you as a reference for a cover that is going to be seen by thousands of people. Do they think it's pretty cool or at this point are they like, oh my God, Jeff is asking me to pose again for another cover? No, they're fine. Not every single one is a family or friend. Sometimes I will find a photo online and I'll like the look of it.

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of a model or something and I'll kind of like borrow the likeness. It's not gonna be exact or I'll look at a few different faces and I'll kind of like make my own more or less. And that's kind of what I did for that Emma. She's based a lot on the girls in Miami. That's how they look and they stand, you know. Like they look like that and they stand around looking like that with those freaking glasses and all that, you know.

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Yo, I'm so glad you brought that up. But that is the vibe I get. And maybe it's because I know that you're a fellow Florida man, you live in Miami. The way you manage to bring your environment into this cover, and really I think it applies to a lot of these covers, especially the ones that you've got women characters on there, there's a certain sex appeal, sassiness to it that feels very Miami. Even some of your lighting to me too gives me like neon, nightlife kind of club vibe.

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But I also know Miami is known for its graffiti culture. You know, you got the Wynwood area. You got Art Basel. Like, would you agree that the Miami culture, and maybe even specifically the graffiti culture, finds its way into your artwork both subconsciously and consciously? 100%. But if I grew up somewhere else, then it would be that stuff that would be in my work. And that's like a big point that I was saying.

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kind of the beginning of the interview is to bring our voice to our work. If you're looking at a lot of other people's work and stuff like that or you're looking at a lot of work that's like if you're a comic book artist but all you're doing is looking at other comic book art, like it's gonna be derivative and people are gonna kind of notice that even if it's like subconscious and by noticing it, that may mean overlooking it.

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because it just kind of is a little more homogenous. So I'm a big fan of like cross genres like Westworld where it's like Western meets like high tech, futuristic stuff. And that's just one example. But I really like when like, it's like multi genre elements that create a kind of something new, like like Dune even like the new like the new Dune. It's like, yeah, it's like high, high sci fi tech, but they're like poor almost they look right,

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I mean, they live in the desert. So it's like they need like high tech, but then they almost look like, you know vagabonds, you know, so So it's it's and that and it works because that ends beautiful, you know, it's like it's it's really something that we don't see often So anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but yes, you know, like when I get a character I'm like, yeah, she's like this bad bougie chick And that's who Emma Frost is that at least to me and then there's no shortage of that

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where I live. So that was not a challenge for me to be able to create a little look at that character. And I do love fashion. I do not even for myself, just like looking at cool fashion like Alexander McQueen's stuff that he did more when he was alive, more of what that brand was when he was alive. Just bringing the elements that he brought into fashion were so cool. And I just really love and respect that kind of stuff. And he's just one example. I mean, there's amazing.

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cool avant-garde fashion nowadays and I just think all that stuff is cool. So I was kind of going like I had a, you know, she has a certain, all these characters have a certain costume but if I can take some liberties here and there, that's really nice and especially when my editors kind of let me do that. As long as the character, as long as you know it's the character, you can, you know, you can do a little something with it and I try to do that whenever I can.

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And maybe working back to your early beginning, story goes that you got your shot at working in comics by stumbling upon a Marvel editor when you're at Supercon. And I understand it was like the first local convention in Miami that you ever bought a table at. Can you take us back to that moment? And what sticks out about that memory in hindsight? What was in your portfolio? What work or examples had you done to prepare for that moment? And how did that interaction go? Yeah.

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I had been to Supercon just as a spectator just going to walk around before and then that year I just said, you know, hey, I had zero comic book work. I had kind of like tossed the idea around with some friends, hey, man, I'd love to like work for Marvel or do some comic book stuff. And they're like, oh, you need to draw Wolverine. You need to draw the characters. You need to have that in your portfolio to show the editors. And I'm like, really? Man, I don't have anything. This was maybe 2011, 2012.

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Maybe even before that. But anyway, so I didn't. It was all just like my own personal paintings, kind of like gallery looking stuff, like weird avant garde female figures stuff. So I got the table. They put me in the back corner next to the bathrooms, facing the back, facing the wall, facing the wall. It was like the worst space ever. But hey, man, like how you do is like you got to do that. So so, you know, I'm sitting there, not a lot of interest, and I'm walking around. And I asked

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you know, I asked someone, hey, you know, how can I work for Marvel? That would be cool. And then they said, oh, there's a there's actually an editor here doing portfolio reviews, you know. So I went to the table and it said, you know, review Saturday from noon to whenever. And I'm OK, whatever. So I got my got some prints together. It was just prints I had to show. Nothing special, really no preparation. Didn't even never been to a portfolio review ever. And but I went and Lauren Sankovich.

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gave me my shot. She gave me my first shot. I sat there, I went through my review, maybe took not longer than 10 minutes. She was pretty stone face, straight face, didn't really show much emotion which was, I appreciated that. But I did recognize some of the couple adjectives she used to describe my work. I kind of got the vibe that she liked it but didn't want to kind of say too much.

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She asked me for my card if I had contact info before I left. And I gave her my card and she emailed me like a couple of weeks later. And she, she, uh, they were redoing the whole creative team for journey into mystery, changing the, changing it from kid Loki to lady SIF, changing the writer, changing the cover artists, everything was changing. And, um, I just, I met her at that moment and that was, that was, that was the moment that we can get into.

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esoterical stuff, you know, where we could save that for the time. But that was that was my moment. And thanks, thanks to her. And thanks to me for putting in decades of work. And this is and I say this a lot. It's like it sounds so easy. Oh, I just sat down on the portfolio review and she gave me a shot. Well, I worked for about 25 years to get my work to look away that she respected and appreciated it. And so on.

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It's like they say the whole thing with the overnight celebrity or whatever. It's like, yeah, you're just finding out about some musician, some celebrity overnight, but they've been working a long time to get where they're at, to be in your scope. And I'm glad that you highlight that part where it's like, look, you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. You're not seeing all the years that I put into it. And to me, I think about that saying, you know,

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Luck is preparation and opportunity when those two things meet. But you've got to be prepared for when that door swings open to go through it. You end up getting this opportunity to do the covers for Journey into Mystery, which sounds like it was the perfect timing. It sounds like they're bringing in fresh blood, new writers, creative team. And it was opportune to also maybe bring in a new look for the overall covers. But it wasn't the overnight success. You weren't getting a bunch of jobs. You weren't a Marvel stay on.

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You spent the next four years really hustling and doing the convention circuits and making those connections and getting your name out there even more. Can you speak to, or maybe even give advice to any aspiring artists or aspiring comic creators who are showing up to conventions with the intention of getting in front of Marvel or DC editor to show off their portfolio? Do you have any advice in terms of maximizing?

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time and effort at conventions, like smart ways to go about trying to do what you do? Yeah. So she left Marvel very shortly after that project ended. I think I did two story arcs for that book and then she left. So she was my foot in the door. I hadn't worked with anybody else at Marvel. So she left and now what do I do? Right. But

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I had enough, but those covers gave me enough momentum to where I could afford to travel a little bit better to go to travel outside of Florida and go to conventions. And that's what I did. And I did meet editors. I think the next bunch of editors I met was from Valiant and then I did some work for them. And then it was just a snowball, man. It was just a really amazing snowball effect of me just continuing to do the legwork and

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my opportunities. You know, we all the opportunities that come into our lives, they're on their way right now. They're each at different points of being created. And as we go about our reality and create our karma and make our decisions and meet the people that we meet, I mean, those opportunities are like beginning to manifest and they're on their way to us. A lot of times people miss the things that are on their way to them.

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because they have their head turned in some other direction, trying to reach for something that's kind of outside of the reality that's kind of being created, not for them, but by them, with the God in the universe, or however you want to kind of conceptualize that. So I really think it's important to...

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kind of just surrender to the stuff that's coming to us and to kind of respect that and to look at that as more meaningful. Like if I would have been like, oh, I met these Valiant editors, but I don't want to work for Valiant. My goal is to work for DC, so I'm not going to take those jobs and keep going to DC. No, I met the Valiant guys and they were awesome. Like Dinesh to this day, Dinesh is awesome.

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And I did work for them and then those covers led to something else. And then this leads to something else. And so, so, so, so that's a big advice that I think is really important is to really take what is, what we don't have to reach outside of our, uh, like the circumference of our, or I don't know, I'm trying to think of some metaphor, you know, if you're straining to reach, it's probably not for you, but if all you got to do is kind of put your hand out and catch it, then I think that's really important. And then once you catch it.

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Now you got to do something with it. So I'm not saying it's like easy and it's just going to come to when everything's, you know, you don't got to do anything. You got to do the work. Um, so I think that's, that's, that's really important. And, and, and that's what I did. And I don't really give advice. I don't tell people anything that I don't do, or I don't believe in. So that, so that's, that's what I do. And, and then another piece of advice, if for, you know, beginners or people trying to break into the industry work for free if you can, because once you do and work for independent publishers.

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and work for people that you recognize are working hard as well. Because once you do a cover or whatever you're going to do, once you do your artwork for them, now they're working for you. Now they're soliciting your work. Now they're marketing their, them marketing their books and their project. You just did that for them. So now they're sharing your work. And that's important, man. Like we need, we need to work for people who are working for us. It's, it's, it's all symbiotic.

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And I did that. I mean, my first covers before Marvel, I think, were for Creature Entertainment, which is an indie publisher in Miami. And they're my friends to this day. They're my friends to this day. John Ulloa. And I want to shout out Mike Broder, who used to own Supercon and now owns the GalaxyCon franchise. He owns Supercon. And he put me in the back table, facing the wall. I didn't know him that well. I didn't know him that well for that convention, but he's a

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dear friend of mine today and he has helped so many people and what he's done for the comic industry is almost incomparable. And I'm friends with them to this day. But back then, back then he put me in the corner facing the wall and paid me like $100 for a cover that I did that blew up their company, right? So it's like, and I'm still friends to this day. So like we have to kind of know where we're at and our capabilities and just be humble about that.

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just not compare ourselves or what we think we should be or what other people are telling us we should be and all these things. I don't know, I'm just kind of going off that. You are on a great train of thought. I think what you said about doing work for free, right? I think for any artist, that's one of the, they'll be quick to tell you, like, nah, you don't do no work for free. Free don't pay the bills. But I love that you added the caveat, working for free for people who are working just as hard. Because you know, they're- That's right.

35:34
which I think is solid advice. And I'm sorry to cut you off. That's why we're talking right now, because I recognize you. I told you, I went to your page, I looked at your podcast, I saw how you're inspiring, man. Like you're doing your part, you know? So that's why I needed talking, man, like to really just kind of recognize that. And another quick caveat, like, hey, if you got kids and bills, and yeah, you can't work.

36:03
free. Like I get that. I'm talking about the younger artists that's trying to break in. That's where I was directed at. Because when I was doing that, I was living at home and I was like 26 years old. So I'm fortunate that I was able to do those things at that time of my life. Today would be more difficult. Yeah, you've come correct now. Dekal is a household name. But you put in the work for it. Yeah, you put in the work for it. Yeah, right. And it's just about context.

36:30
and the appropriate context for the appropriate time in our life and our appropriate capabilities and all these things. So yeah. I guess I got to ask this, and I ask this respectfully, but why comic books? Because you mentioned that you had a portfolio. You had worked in traditional oil painting. You had did illustrations for magazines. You had did album covers. You were into the graffiti scene.

36:56
What was the appeal for comic books? I imagine you understood early on that, hey, this is not a, at the time at least, it's not a very lucrative business and it's hard to get in here. What was the appeal to get break into the comic book industry? And I guess what would you say has been the coolest or most standout opportunity that you've been able to enjoy because of comic books? Whether it be a travel or meeting a hero or idol, what is your relationship with comic books and why does it continue to drive you?

37:27
So that directly goes back to what we were just talking about, about meeting the opportunities that are trying to meet us. I did album art for musicians before I did comics. I did some editorial stuff for some local newspapers and magazines. I did gallery work. So I was doing murals. I was doing all these different things. Comics stuck. They just stuck because...

37:55
of how I was received and the fans that appreciate my work and the editors that continue to give me work. So, I mean, it easily could have just been, yeah, I did some covers and I tried, I hustled, I went to conventions, but I couldn't get more work and I guess I got to move on. That could have been my path, but it wasn't. I continually got the jobs, I got the appreciation, which I'm just so moved and appreciated.

38:22
for and I just continued on and again, now I'm talking to you in 2024. So, it's like, so comics wanted me to stay basically, the fans, the editors, the projects they wanted me to stay and I'm still doing it and I fucking love them. I'm like, I love comics. I grew up with them. It wasn't like I had said earlier, it wasn't something I thought I could ever like do and make a career but it, I...

38:49
I'm totally okay doing it, you know, that seeing that I'm able to do it. Yeah, yeah, like I had mentioned before as well, like I have all these influences like gallery art, you know, book covers, album covers, but this is this is what's stuck. And again, drawing like divine godlike superheroes fighting and looking at the frost looking bad and bougie on whatever.

39:16
I'm okay drawing that stuff. So it's fun. So it's fun. So not only has the industry asked me to stay, I've chosen to stay because I love it. So it's very fun, very endearing. And then yeah, man, the travel, I think that's been the most like just life changing part of being in this industry and something I never expected that I would do. I mean, I've been to Europe for this stuff. I've been all over the country for this stuff. And the

39:46
you know, huge thank you to all the conventions that have me as a guest and asked me to come and cover my expenses. I mean, that is just so humbling to me. I mean, I just I still feel like a kid just drawing his room because no one else invited me to go out on the weekend, you know, like I still feel like that kind of in my heart. So to have these opportunities where these big companies or even indie independent.

40:14
conventions like HeroesCon, I mean, like for them to ask me to come and help me pay cover expenses and I'm happy to do a piece for their auctions or to speak on their panels and do all that stuff, man. So, it's just been amazing, man, and really life-changing. And I get asked often like, oh, you know, because I grew up in South Florida and I still live here and I love it. And I get asked a lot, oh, do you want to leave Florida and travel? And yeah, I do. It's cool but...

40:41
Being able to kind of live my dream and make my art work and then also to travel as often as I do, it kind of like really fills that void of like, that restless void of like, oh, I gotta get out of here, I gotta move somewhere. I don't really feel that because I am so fortunate to be able to travel for work. I mean, it's like really work vacation because I'm working the whole weekend drawing and doing commissions with people, but I'm seeing friends, I'm enjoying myself.

41:08
So yeah, just this whole, my whole career has just been like a really surprising, um, bountiful, blossoming fruit of a lot, a lot of labor. And, um, then I'm happy to do the labor. Um, even if it creates anxiety sometimes and I fucking hurt my back cause I'm drawing some or whatever, it's like, I just heal, I'll deal with it. I'll heal cause I, cause I, cause I know I will heal. I will. We have enough time and enough love for ourselves will heal from, from most things.

41:38
So I just try to look at everything like that. Hearing you say how comic books has given you the opportunities, like scratch that itch of traveling and meeting people, that really resonates with me as someone that I don't make any money from the podcast and any money that I do make goes right back into production and hosting and all the costs that come with it. But the saving grace and what I love about doing this.

42:03
is the opportunities. It gives me a reason to go to Chicago and meet awesome people like you in New York and all of that. Maybe one day I'll be able to go to Europe for comics specifically. But what is the reception like at conventions in other countries, whether it be Europe or other places? Because I have this thought that your artwork, does it resonate a lot more over there? I don't know. There's something about your artwork with it. Maybe it's the traditional.

42:32
illustration or the traditional art aspects influences, but like does your artwork resonate maybe special over there in a different way that maybe isn't really appreciated here? I can't speak too much on it because I don't have a lot of experience. I've only done two shows in Italy. I did the Nerd Bologna show and I did the Lake Como show and I only did each of them one time. And the Lake Como show, I mean that was amazing.

43:04
As far as like seeing how my work was received, it was a little bit more cool for the Bologna show because that was in like a like Bologna, you know, Lake Como show is just this divine, amazing, high brow, like art festival kind of deal, which just incredible. Like everything about that show is insane. But the Bologna show was more like a traditional comic con in like, I don't think Bologna is like a huge.

43:32
city. It's a beautiful, nice city in Italy, but I had fans there that didn't even speak English and that was crazy. That was crazy for me. Yeah, that was crazy. The Lake Como show is more like a high end collectors, but the Bologna show is more just kind of like the everyday younger kind of comic fan and it was nuts, man, for me to see that I actually had fans there. So that's all I could speak of and it was great. But I mean, Europe has its own world of convention. I mean, like friend, like...

44:01
like French artists and French comic books are amazing. Like the styles are beautiful out there and they have their own circuit. And they have, I mean, like every country in Europe at least has one comic con and they have, that's their own world out there as far as artwork. Like American comic book art is, yeah, it's a huge part of comics, but it's not everything at all. And I guess that's what I was getting at is that

44:28
You know, you brought up like Mobius and you just brought up the French comic scene. I know in France, the reverence for comic books is on another level. I think they call it like the ninth art or something to that effect. And I guess the I guess what I was trying to get at is like, did you notice that? Did you feel like a different sense of reverence among the fans or a different culture among the fans that that is different than here? Different than like conventions here.

44:57
It's hard for me to boil that down. Like, yes, but again, I don't have a lot of experience. Like I've never done anything in France. Like I've been to Paris once for vacation, but I've never done anything professionally there. So it's, I can't, I don't really want to speak too much on it, but they do, they...

45:16
Oh man, again, you know, this is kind of funny. I just got this super old book. It's a Marvel book. It's Mobius did a story with Stan Lee wrote the story and that's exactly right. I just found out about that and I just bought that. And it was so cool. And what about Mobius, he wrote like this whole kind of synopsis on how he was feeling about how he met Stanley about how the project came about.

45:44
And he did mention like a couple of times that like the French fans were going to like look at this work in a different way because Mobius did want to kind of like tailor the style to look more like an American comic book, even though he says it'll still be Mobius, but it's going to be a more American comic version of Mobius. And just hearing him just reading and understanding that he kind of knew that he kind of knew

46:14
versions of comics and he has to actually like try to look more American in that kind of work was interesting to read. So I really think like that kind of says it all. It's not like there are these two totally different things and they're appreciated or received in two totally different ways, but there is a kind of delineation between like American and European styles and preferences and appreciations. I just can't speak like a whole lot.

46:41
No, for sure. I think that was a solid answer overall. And for anyone curious, the Silver Surfer story we're talking about, Silver Surfer Parable. Parable? Parable? Yeah, Parable. I believe so. You brought up a couple of names in terms of influence, you know, Bilsenkevich, Mobius, etc. If you had to do the difficult task of creating a Mount Rushmore of your all time favorite artists, whether it be from comic books, traditional, graffiti, etc.

47:08
Like what are some names that would be on your Mount Rushmore? Like you're, you know, what are your top four favorite artists out there? I can't do it, man. I can't. I'm not gonna, I'm gonna name a couple of names, but they're not like the top best ever because I love so many genres of art and so many time periods that it's just impossible. Um, but yeah, Bill is on there. Um,

47:33
I think this is a question that obviously will change depending on the mood you're in, the day that you're being asked this. But for right now, what are the names that come to mind that you're like, okay, this is an artist that would absolutely be on my Mount Rushmore or has had that influence on me like that? Yeah. Again, let's forget the Mount Rushmore thing. I'm not going to do the pedestal thing. I'm just going to name artists that are really like, French Impressionism for me is huge. So like Degas, Mary Cassatt.

48:01
Um, those are, those are, those are two of my favorites. Um, Karan Grant is a good friend of mine and very big influence on me. And I'm, um, he was one of the first artists done that, um, in my industry. Um, so I got to name him. Um, I mean, Bernie Fuchs is, is, is amazing. Um, John Foster, um, Carlos Fuente is another, uh, amazing, just incredible artist. Um.

48:29
James Jean is one of them. Ashley Wood, I'm a big Ashley Wood fan. My buddy Victor Kalachev is amazing. Topey, there's just so many. I got hold on my Brian Stelfree's gotta throw him in there. I mean, yeah, Brian Stelfree's amazing. Adam Hughes. Celia Call is a friend of mine and amazing artist.

48:58
I could just keep going, man. But we could. Last one, and we will cut it off. Marco Georgievic. Marco Georgievic is one of my top. Yeah. 100%. The Ashley Wood, the Adam Hughes, and the Marco name drops definitely make sense with yourself for sure. Let me add a caveat or a compound on that question here. Because in a couple of interviews, you mentioned that one of your favorite aspects is when it comes to the opportunities you've gotten to enjoy with comic books

49:28
the travel, but you also mentioned being able to meet other artists and trade art and have pieces from some of your peers and people that you work with. What's the last piece of art that you've received or traded at a convention or among your peers?

49:48
Um, something I cherish a lot. Okay, well, let me name a couple. I'm not going to say the last one but some I cherish a lot. I got a Claire Wendling drawing. Amazing. I mean, I can't even believe I have it and she was so cool about it. She made some posts about it. She just like had a bunch of drawings on the floor, made a post. She was going to some convention that I couldn't be at and I messaged her and I said, I said, Claire, can I just buy something? I'm not going to be at this convention and

50:18
She was so cool. She sent me a PDF with like all these images and she's like, yeah, Jeff, just pick the one you want. I'll give you a price. And she did. And I mean, amazing. And I, and I, I really cherish that drawing. It's so beautiful. Um, then I have, I have an original I'm a big Eon flux fan. I watched that as a kid in the nineties. Um, when, and when MTV, when liquid liquid television was on, I mean, I was, I was way too young to be watching that. We'll hear your awesome show. Same.

50:48
But I was so I have an original cell from Peter Chung from that, from Eon Flux. It's like on the acetate and he signed it, I have that. I have a Rick Berry drawing which is amazing. I met him and he gave it to me. I have a bunch of Karan Grant's drawing, we traded a bunch of times. Yeah, I have a bunch of Sienkiewicz drawings. I mean, I love – he hasn't done this in so long but he would – for years, he –

51:17
I'd see him at conventions, he'd show up, he would just put a stack of loose drawings on the table. I would go through every single one. I mean, the corners, some of the corners were bent, there were stains on them. I mean, but that's who he is. And you want that if you're going to buy something from him. So I would just go through the stack of drawings, I'd pick out the ones I liked, I'd ask him for prices, he'd tell me, I'd put most of them back because they were too expensive. And then I would just buy them. I would just buy the...

51:45
one that I could afford and I did that. I did that. I can't even count how many times I've done that. I have at least a dozen drawings. I do have a Dave McKean drawing. I met him the one year that I went to Lake Como. And then that reminds me on that same time I met Travis Sherwight. So I got Travis Sherwight. I mean, it goes without saying. And we traded at that show. It was incredible. I mean, that was a moment for me. That was just incredible. He had heard of me, which is...

52:14
fucking mind blowing. Just that Travis Ray heard of me and liked my work. So we traded space girl drawings. I did a space girl for him. He did a space girl for me. It feels like you really appreciate the connections that you've been able to make and the opportunities. And I can only imagine how bad ass your studio is with all the art that you've just mentioned. I've got two more questions, but one of them is a question.

52:41
that was submitted via voicemail from one of your biggest fans. He's also the owner of the comic shop that I frequent that also sponsors this show, it's Gotham City Limit here in Jacksonville, Florida. But he was elated to hear you'd be on the show and wanted to contribute to this conversation. So I'm going to play this voicemail for you. Hey, Jeff, Ben K, Gotham City Limit, Jacksonville, Florida here. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question. Before I jump in, just wanted to let you know on a personal level.

53:09
Two of my favorite comics that I own in my personal collection are your Green Lantern number 9 variant cover that has the pack of lions coming out from behind Hal Jordan and your Flash 800 variant with the Flash racing alongside a cheetah. Thanks so much for making amazing artwork. Now here's my question. You wake up tomorrow and you're a mutant. And your mutant power is all your artwork comes to life.

53:37
What's the first thing you make after realizing this new power? I'll leave you to answer. Thanks so much for making amazing art. We couldn't do it without you. And remember, short box nation, we'll always take it to the limit. Big shout out to Ben K. from Gotham City Limit. Oh man, I was smiling the whole time he was talking. That was hilarious. Oh, that's hard, that's hard. Like I have this like vague idea, but.

54:05
It's almost like I wouldn't even want the responsibility and the power of what I would kind of say because it's all about perspective of like kind of the balance of how the world works and it's obviously not balanced for everybody when you zoom in. I don't know, I mean I can go on a big long tangent conversation about that but yeah, I guess just the power to kind of...

54:35
balance things better. But again, I just feel weird saying that because then it would be like my version of balance and that's not necessarily correct or appropriate. So, I don't know, man, I've always, that's always a hard question for me. Oh, would I fly? Would I be super strong? You know, there's these like, those are like kind of the basic super powers. And then I will always try to kind of think outside the box and kind of have something that isn't the cliche or the norm. But it's kind of difficult to kind of define that.

55:03
That is a solid answer. That's a very altruistic answer of you. And I appreciate that you took what could have been a silly question and gave some thought and some heart. I think for someone with less morals than you, given the ability to draw anything could easily become a fucking weird, remember that movie Weird Science? Considering that you draw some incredibly bad and bougie characters on your covers, I can imagine someone using that power for evil. But...

55:31
I'm glad to hear that you put some thought into that. I mean, but I kind of did leave a lot of room with my answers. Like, what does balance mean to you? And does balance always mean the same thing at every different time of day? What mood are you in? What kind of balance are we looking for if you have that power? So hey, man, that doesn't always mean it's this altruistic.

55:56
want to fix the world kind of deal. And I feel like that would be an interesting character. My favorite characters are like the anti-heroes where they don't, where they're not one thing or the other. They don't have like some main agenda. They just kind of go with whatever needs to be done and they'll kind of join whatever team they need to in order to get their mission kind of accomplished. And those are the stories I kind of like better where it's not just, or you're not one thing all the time because who is, who is, right?

56:26
Yeah, so we can kind of live with that. Yeah, some days I want to draw a world peace, other days I want a bad ass yacht so I can go sail to Italy. All right, it depends on the mood. All right, Jeff, man, I truly appreciate this conversation and you've given me your time and your perspective. You've given some awesome insights and great advice. I'm going to have links to your socials. In the show notes, people can check you out on Instagram, on Twitter. I highly recommend, folks.

56:50
Check out your website. All of your covers are on here. But do you have anything that you want to plug? Do you have any upcoming projects? Are you going to be at any conventions? Where can people find you? Just everything's my name, all my social media, jefftcow.com, jefftcow.in. And what I'm going to be somewhere I post about it. So just follow me wherever you want. Good stuff. All right, folks. With that being said, do yourselves a favorite. Be on the lookout for everything.

57:19
that Jeff DeKalb has got coming up. There you have it, ShortBikes Nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you wanna share with us, write us at thes And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word. Share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do.

57:46
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58:15
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58:44
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59:13
And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon.