An Interview with Tony Fleecs about Army of Darkness, Local Man, and Bronies?! - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 432

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Intro music plays

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Yo, Short Box Nation, welcome back. Thanks for being here. If you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Shortbox Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comic books with the people that put their blood, sweat and tears into making them. Today, I'm joined by one of the hardest working comic book creators in the industry. His name is Tony Fleecs and he's an Iser and Harvey Award nominated writer and artist who's currently writing not one, two, nor three, but four, count them four ongoing series right now.

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including Feral and Local Man for Image Comics, Uncanny Valley on Boom Studios, and he's a writer for Army of Darkness Forever on Dynamite Entertainment. He's also an insanely talented artist. You've probably seen his art on some of your favorite titles like Star Wars Adventures, Avengers, Batman, TMNT, Transformers, and just a literal, I mean, I'm talking literal ton of My Little Pony comics. He literally is half man, half amazing.

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Tony also has a bunch of critically acclaimed creator owned work to his name, including an autobiographical, autobiographical? I was blubbering that up, but it's called In My Lifetime. It came out in 2006. He's also got the graphic novel, Jeff Steinberg, Champion of Earth. And you can't forget about his excellent 2021 Image Comics series, Stray Dogs with artist Trish Orsner. Tony's on the show today to talk about his current projects, work-life balance, and whatever else we get into. I got a feeling that this will be a good conversation.

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So without further ado, Short Box Nation, let's welcome Tony Fleecs to the show. How you doing, man? We did it. That was great. I appreciate that. Thank you. Dude, my first question first and foremost is, how do you do it all, man? How do you balance so many projects? I was going through the list of books you had and when Amy Ranello from Dynamite reached out that

03:23
Hey, do you want to talk to the writer that's doing Army of Darkness? I was like, sure. Who is it? She's like Tony Fleecs. I'm like, wait, you mean the guy that's doing Local Man, that just launched Feral, is also doing Uncanny Valley? She's like, yeah, he's also doing Army of Darkness for like a year. I'm like, what? Dude, how do you do it? How do you stay organized? You have any, I guess, like programs, any like systems in place to keep you like organized?

03:50
I can tell I'm doing too much because the last several podcasts I've done, the first question is how do you keep all this straight? I don't have a real good answer for it. Basically what happened was I feel like a lot of freelancers, I live in constant terror of going broke, right? And so you just say yes to everything. And for the longest time, that's been what I've been doing. And the things that I've been saying yes to after Stray Dogs was successful like it was,

04:19
the things that I would get offered became bigger and better deals. You could do this whole book or you could do this. Where it used to just be like, hey, can you draw this issue of something, which is like a one month commitment. Now I've said yes to all these things and I don't really have a good plan for keeping track of them or keeping them straight. All I really do is just I'm single, I live.

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know, by myself, just only do this. And I sort of have like, I have like a spot in mind where things are getting a little simpler, like Army of Darkness will wrap up at a certain point. Uncanny Valley is only 12 issues long, so that'll wrap up at a certain point. So it's just a matter of like, getting to those points. But in the meantime, I am just constantly working. Like I only, I went to the movies last night.

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About every week or every other week, I go see one movie and then the rest of the time is just cramming all this stuff in. Local Man, I draw it as well as, if I was just writing, I feel like this would be a way different conversation because you can write easily a comic or two in a week. But drawing is a whole different situation. It takes me at least three weeks and that's moving pretty fast to draw.

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I've done it in less, I'm doing it in less right now because we got a little bit behind, but yeah, it's just a lot of constant cranking and a lot of working. So you said something just now that piqued my interest. You said, you've got this fear, this shadow over you about going broke, losing these opportunities, and I've been listening to this Wayne Brady interview on the Questlove podcast, which I highly recommend. The Questlove Supreme podcast is

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Fantastic. He interviews a lot of like musicians, entertainers, etc. But he's got Wayne Brady on the show this this week. And when Brady says something about like, I think Quest had asked him, hey, you know, when does all your best ideas come to you? And when Brady was like, oh, while I'm sleeping, like literally while I'm sleeping, the dread and anxiety of like, oh, shit, like, you know, I've got to come up with a good idea to keep my family, you know, like a house, keep the roof above my head, pay groceries.

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So I found it interesting that someone at his level, someone that's well-respected that you would think is like, maybe, I thought he was retired or something, but he's still out here grinding and doing the work. And so hearing you say that, it's like, I know that there are times when I go to, where I just take a break. I went to Philly this past week for a music festival, and I had to fight back that guilt of, yo, I should be working. I should be lining up the next interview. Do you have any tips? Or how do you go about just,

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being in the moment and not letting like tomorrow's task and next week's deadlines get to you. Butter, you are asking the wrong guy. I have no idea.

07:23
No idea how to do that. All right. So we're both still working on that. Yeah. It gets to me. Um, like I think the issue is, is that I'm, I think a lot about setting goals and like moving goals once you've achieved something, you know, like, all right, we did that now let's now we're going to do this, you know, like we did, we got this thing working now, let's see if we can get this other part working and it's, and I sort of think about it like a progression, you know, like

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we're headed towards something, life's a journey or whatever, and you just keep getting closer and closer to the thing you want to do. But the problem with that is that I'll also, like the challenges that I set up for myself become more difficult to, you know, you don't make things easier on myself, you know? Like, I take on things that are bigger or like, I bought a house. And so then it's like, all right, well, the small amount of money I used to have to raise to pay rent with.

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Now I have to raise like several times that much to keep this mortgage paid. And so, while instead of doing where I had just been working for other people, I work for My Little Pony or work for, you know, now I work basically for myself 75% of the time. And so it is, you know, like, I don't know if I've, it feels like I'm making the right moves but it is, they're all, none of them are feel.

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like secure, you know, they all feel like they can all fall apart. How are you feeling about your career today? Because from an outsider looking in, it's like, man, 2021, straight dogs comes out. And I remember that being a moment. Like I can vividly recall the texts that I got in my, in several of my comic, you know, friend threat, text threads. Yo, you got to check this straight dogs out. I will admit I missed the boat on it. Last night, I caught up with like the first three issues and I'm like, yo, why do I, why, why do I always wait for?

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But you know, now you look, then you look like where you're at now. And it's like, you're writing four ongoing titles. And I guess I'm curious to hear, you know, a long winded way of just asking, like, how do you feel about your career? And do you still feel like you have a chip on your shoulder? I read that in an interview as well, where you were talking about after the My Little Pony stint that you did that, you know, you kind of had a chip on your shoulder that you wanted to prove that you were more than just a little my pony guy. And.

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you know, the straight dogs came out and all that. So I guess how are you feeling about your career now? Like, do you ever just take time to smell the flowers and celebrate the victory or is it still like, all right, next project, next project.

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But I wish I had all the opposite answer for every question that you've asked me because it really is like, I'm just like, well, I'm busy. I don't take this, you know, I don't smell the flowers. I don't appreciate things when they're happening. No, I feel good about my career. Of course, you know, I'm in a super fortunate position. Things have worked out. I couldn't imagine a better, you know, I couldn't imagine things of

10:22
going better. It sort of has worked out exactly how I would have liked it to work out. There were times where it seemed like, like I was talking about, you sort of move the goalpost, and when I was just working steadily drawing My Little Pony comics, I was like, I can't believe I make a living as a comic book artist. I can't believe I've, a good living too. I did better than a lot of my friends just by just sort of like sheer hustle and that.

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having that job on that book that was popular and that they made a ton of them. So they always needed somebody to draw that. Going from there to then my first image book being Stray Dogs. And like you said, it was like it was definitely a thing. It was a moment. But yeah, we sold a million across all platforms. We sold over a million stray dogs. Wow. My first congrats. I like my first thanks, man. My first solo writer book, my first, you know, image comic book, sort of just like

11:20
could not have gone better. And so, now being back with the follow-up to that with Farrell and local man gets nominated for an Eisner and you know, it's like, of course, I feel great about it. But also, it's all sort of wrapped up in the part where I'm just always constantly busy making it. So, I haven't really left myself a lot of space to like sit back and feel good about it. I'm just sort of like having to feel good about it while I'm working.

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So when you go to comic conventions, what type of books are people asking your son? Are you still getting a lot of My Little Pony, or are you starting to see the local man people, the fans of straight dogs, and all of that? I guess I'm just curious about what is the readership of those My Little Pony books like? Outside of looking in, I see them all the time, but in my head it's like, oh, these are all ages books. Parents are grabbing these for little kids, but it sounds like...

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That was doing really well for you. So now I'm kind of like, well, I wonder if that had a much larger fan base that I'm completely unaware of. Yeah, man, of course. Do you know about bronies? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So they're picking up the comics, too. Good. Oh, yeah, they got the comics, too. They had conventions like getting that job. It was not only could I make a living just drawing the comics. There was this whole other part of it where I could go do these

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And at a certain point there was like one every month or so, you could always go somewhere and set up and do a My Little Pony convention. Where are some of these places you've been to? Like, where are some places that host the best Brony convention? I gotta know. Well, the biggest one was in Baltimore. That wrapped up in 2019, like right before COVID really. That was just BronyCon. And then the ones that are still hanging on, there's one in San Francisco.

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And then there's one in Seattle called Everfree Northwest that I'm still going to because I worked on the comic book and then I got hired as a writer on the TV show too. So I got to sort of like extend the My Little Pony thing a little bit longer. You are definitely in someone's Mount Rushmore of All My Little Things Ponies. I can foresee that. Yeah, there's some Pony fans. That was crazy too because Ponies was like my first regular comics gig.

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And I had done conventions before that for years and I would like make prints and fan art and like sell whatever little comics I was making at the time, create your own stuff for anthologies or whatever I could get going. And then from going from that to My Little Pony was like, I would show up at a convention and they would like, of course they fly me out there and put me up and stuff. Then somebody comes pick me up at the airport. I got like a personal handler the whole time, you know, they will go get me coffee and stuff.

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There's VIP suites and they pay you like a per diem. It was like going from being literally nobody to being like Jim Lee at a Comic Con. On a much smaller scale, you know, only like a few thousand people go to a Brony convention, but still pretty cool. No, that is, I mean, you know, you hear all the jokes and things about Brony's and stuff, but you got to imagine that like, we're also talking about people, you know, adults with disposable income and, you know, organization and, you know, like

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regardless of the jokes, that is a passionate fan base that is comparable to any passionate fan base. So that is pretty cool that they've got... It sounds like the money's over there with the bronies, right? Y'all might be laughing, but I just got picked up in a limo with the coffee ready. I did get picked up in limos. They put me up in the Four Seasons sometimes. It was crazy. That's not them. Very crazy. I guess on the topic of conventions and travel, I know that

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I think on the Image website, there's a blurb that says, you know, your work has sold millions of copies, which I guess aligns with what you said about stray dogs. But it also mentioned that a lot of your work has been translated in other languages for, you know, different countries. I guess what's been the most interesting place you've gotten to go or opportunity you've gotten to do because of comics. And then I guess what's the most unique place that you've seen your work out in the wild? Hmm. That's interesting. Oh, definitely. I know the most unique.

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I haven't done too much international travel. I've been to England, I've been to the Netherlands. I set up all my conventions myself, so I'm not on the track. I'll have friends who'll hit me up and be like, hey, come with us, we're going to whatever. Like John Layman who did Chew as a friend of mine, and he's always getting invited to some cool overseas show, but it never works out with my schedule. So I haven't been to too many overseas shows.

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The craziest place I ever saw my work was, so when we started making the My Little Pony comics, I can't believe there's this much pony content in this podcast. I didn't expect this at all. We gotta give the people what they want. All this stuff that was on pony merchandise up until then was from this one My Little Pony asset set, basically.

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Here's the ponies. And if you want to license out their stuff, you want to make t-shirts or pencil boxes or whatever you can use from these assets. And then once we started making the comics, all of that stuff just went into Hasbro's assets and they could just use it. Like we don't have any rights to it, but it would go right into Hasbro and then they could license it right back out to be on t-shirts. I mean, so there were a few times a few of us would draw something and then it would just end up on a t-shirt or on like a blanket or, you know, like, um,

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And so for a little while, they had a bunch of Hot Topic printed shirts of just My Pony stuff. And I did one that was, they had this My Little Pony character that was like Dr. Who, his name is Dr. Who's. And he's at, it's just like a cool drawing of him that I did. And they made it into a t-shirt and then a brony died. And this is like a meme. And he was buried like with all his

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plush ponies and stuff, and then like a wall of t-shirts that he was also being buried with. And one of them was my t-shirt. So there's just like this picture. It's disturbing. But if you Google it, you'll see a picture of this dead guy in his casket with being buried with one of my pieces. Tony, that might be one of my favorite answers I've ever heard on the podcast. I don't know where you were going with that, but that was morbid and funny and interesting as hell. Thank you for that. That's what I do.

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Yeah, no, you killed it on that. I guess shifting to why I've got you here, which is really just to talk about all the comics you're doing. But I got to give a big shout out to Amy Ranello from Dynamite for setting this up. You are currently working on the Army of Darkness Forever comic series. It is currently on issue. Issue nine will be out by the time this episode comes out, which will be on June 26. I understand that you have been writing it since, like I said, since.

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Issue one, I think the series launched in 2023. I also understand that it immediately picks up after the director's cut of Sam Raimi's iconic, Evil Dead from 1992. I guess what does that mean in terms of story and how did the opportunity come up for you to write an iconic character like Ash William? So the story thing.

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It's basically at the end of Army of Darkness, if you've seen Army of Darkness, Ash gets sent to medieval times. At the end of Evil Did too, he gets sucked into this portal and he gets sent to medieval times and then all through Army of Darkness, he's sort of like a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court. He's just like this man out of time in medieval times fighting against these evil demons and then he fights against an evil version of himself and little miniature versions of himself. It's a whole thing.

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But at the end of it, he ends up back in his own time, this wise man gives him this, uses the Necronomicon to send him back to the 90s. Yeah. And the version that we saw here in the US, he goes back to Esmart and he tells the story of what happened to him. And then this evil deadite lady attacks them in the Esmart and he kills her and then grabs this gal and he kisses her and he says, hail to the king, baby. And that's the end of the movie. But in the international version,

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And like was the deleted scene, they said here that it was too much of a bummer ending. But in the international version, Ash takes this potion from the wise man and he's supposed to drink six drops of it and each drop will make him sleep for 100 years. And he accidentally drinks an extra drop and he wakes up in the post-apocalypse. Like he's got a big long beard like Rip Van Winkle and he stumbles out and he sees the whole world's been exploded and he's like, oh, I slept too long. And

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I was always so, like ever since I saw that ending on the first Army of Darkness DVD that I saw, I was like, that's so much cooler. Like I would have loved to see where they went from there, you know, like what Ash in the future and I read articles and interviews with Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell about how like they were going to do this sort of Ash versus the Techno Army of Darkness. And then eventually years later, they made the TV show Ash versus Evil Dead and they

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regular ending, you know, like where it went from after the regular ending. And so, when Dynamite hit me up and asked about doing the book, I was like, well, has anyone done the sequel to that international ending? And they've had the license for like 20 years, you know, they started doing this book in 2004. But at the time, nobody had. And so, I was just like, well, I would love to do that. And they sort of let me, you know, come up with an idea for it. And the idea I came up with basically was...

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Let's figure out a way to do that ending, but still do the regular ending. And also still, so I sort of set it up like, like Jason Aaron's Thor. Did you read that? Yeah, absolutely. So like the, the God bomb, God of thunder Thor, where it's like three different Thor's ones, young ones, old at the end of time ones, you know, like Avengers Thor, um, so I was like, let me do three timelines like that. Let's do Ash in the future and then let's do Ash in.

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After Hail to the King, baby, like the 1990s Ash. And then we'll also follow Ash's girl Sheila in the medieval times as things start. Darkness starts to re, you know, like retake the kingdom. So, yeah, they were they've been super like hardly anything I've pitched. They've been like, you know, you can't do that. Like they let us get a little more graphic with it because they used to. They wanted to keep it like a PG-13. They've let us be a little more vulgar with it.

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Because Army Darkness is an R-rated movie, like he says, fuck, you know, like there's all kinds of blood and guts and stuff. And so part of what I love about the Evil Dead franchise, especially the first two and even the remake and Evil Dead Rise, like they're disgusting, you know. And so I wanted to bring some of that to it too, as much as we could. So I've sort of tried to lean into the grossness where possible.

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Um, and, and just sort of make it into like a big epic sort of fun, keep the, keep the spirit of ash in it and keep it, but just sort of like this big thing. It sounds like you're saying true to the spirit of army darkness and evil dead and everything that came from the movies. And I guess I just find it really interesting that you found like this, like this pocket and I'm surprised that no one has thought about doing a sequel to that, uh, director's cut.

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Have you had a chance to get in front of in Iraq, talk to Sam Raimi or Bruce Campbell? I know that Dynamite holds the IP, but I guess do they get involved in any way, whether it be their company or directly in terms of making sure it's up to par? Sadly, no. The MGM owns the license to Army of Darkness. So everything has to run through MGM, but it's just a licensure person that works there. Very nice lady, very supportive. But yeah, Sam doesn't.

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doesn't give the yes or no. But basically what I tried to do was, like I said, I read everything they ever said about what they wanted to do with the sequel. And so I put all that stuff in it. And then just sort of, it's not like I was just using their ideas and then connect dots, but I just want like, they had such cool ideas. I was like, Oh yeah, of course we would do that. And of course we would do this. And then just sort of made it into a quest and made it into like the sort of journey that Ash would go on in this sort of adventure.

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Asher, go on. I mean, that's like the closest you'll get to, I mean, let's be real, that's probably the closest you'll get to collaborating with them. And I mean, that's like, you know, that's research, you know, that's coming out of their mouths with some of these story beats. I'm sure other fans probably have wanted to see that kind of conceptualized in some way. And you know, what better medium than comics? The first issue of it is basically co-written by Sam and Ivan Raimi. Like, it's just like a recap issue because it's like...

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We go through all the, where he's been up until now, up until the part where he slept too long, because you have to sort of like set that up. You can't just jump in and expect that people saw the same DVD I saw of Army of Darkness. So, so it's like the first issue is like a pretty complete recap of everything we saw before. And so it has like lines from the movies and scenes from the movies. And so people that...

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I remember when it came out, I wanted them to do it like as a free comic book day or maybe it's just like a primer giveaway or something. Like an Ashcan or something? This doesn't have hardly anything new in it, but we need people to see this for them to, you know. Yeah. So issue 11, I think the solicitation stopped at issue 11. Is it safe to say that's where the series ends, issue 11? No, there's a 12th and then we're doing special after 12th too. So there's 12 full issues and then...

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then we're doing a 30 page special. It's not really a finale. Like 12 will be the finale of the story, but we cooked up an idea for the special where I had written into, I think issue.

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seven or eight. Because we had talked about the first arc and that was all outlined pretty detailed. And then the second arc was a little looser. And when we got closer to it, I started outlining that. And then the editor, Joe Ryband, was like, let's do a special here. And I had written issue seven or eight and it had this beat in it where Ash gets thrown into this big pit full of

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just turn the page and it says like, you know, 327 deadites later. And I thought that was sort of fun. But then when we decided to do the special, I was like, well, let's do that two more times in the other timelines. And then at the end, we can do a special where we just show those fights. So like the very last issue of Army of Darkness Forever is a special, I think we're calling it

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So it's just all blood and guts and fighting and it's like filling in these fights that we skipped over. Yeah. And then also have a fun little story and three different artists. That's cool. That sounds like a nice reward for the folks that are staying with it and seeing the series to the end. For anyone that is a trade waiter that likes to wait for trades, there is an Army of Darkness Forever Volume 1 trade that is coming out on August 14th, which I think aligns with issue 11.

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doing shorter runs or do you prefer these 12 issue maxi series or even going longer? Do you have a preference in terms of length of story or is it just depends on the project and the characters that you're writing? Yeah, I think it depends on the project. I feel like 12 is a nice number. It feels like a real... You get to tell a real story that really matters.

27:48
We wrote that as five issues because it was sort of like I'd never done, you know, when I wrote Stray Dogs issue two, I think that was the first time I'd written any issue two. You know, like I hadn't written anything longer than just like one shots before that. And so that was just sort of like figuring out what, you know, like what the shape of that was and what would work. But we knew Stray Dogs had like an ending that was a...

28:14
a finite ending. You haven't got to it yet, so I won't say where it is. But when you get to the end of Stray Dogs, you'll be like, that's the end for sure. And so, I like the idea of that being five issues, but Feral is an ongoing series and Local Man is an ongoing. And I like the idea of that sort of thing too, where you build a story engine basically that you can use to tell a-

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million different stories that go in a million different directions. Or something like this, or Uncanny Valley, where it's like this has a shape almost like the shape of a movie or like a novel or something where it's just like this has three acts and we break them down into a couple issues each and at the end of it, you get like a big satisfying ending. So I guess it all depends on what story you're telling.

29:11
what the size of it is, what the length of it is. Tony, you know what I like about, aside from, actually there's a lot I like about Local Man. I've said it in our year end episode, like it was one of my favorite comic books of 2023, if not like the best. But I like the strategy that you and Tim Seely have with that book where every, I think it's like what, every five or six issues you guys will put out, you know, that's the end of one story arc and then you guys will put out an annual for new readers.

29:37
Like I've gotten, hell, I got my best friend Drew onto Local Man by giving him that annual and he worked his way back. I feel like you're a man chock full of good ideas, right? Like the army of darkness, you know, finding that pocket, that kind of untapped story potential. And then like the cadence that you have with Local Man, stray dogs, you know, in an interview you said that, you know, you had noticed after coming off My Little Pony that there wasn't a lot of.

30:01
you know, animal books, you know, books about animals on adventures and things like that. And, you know, that's why you put that into the world. So I'm like, man, this guy's like chock full of like really good ideas. And I was curious, like, where does that come from? Like, do you what type of media do you consume? Like, are you doing any creative exercises? Like, how do you get the creative juices going, you know, on a regular basis? You ask me where I get my ideas from?

30:29
I'm like, give me the secrets, all right? Give me the secrets. I guess I'm just curious, like what inspires you? You know, like what do you think are cool? Like what do you think is cool? Well, I feel like if I have a, I mean, I'm not, I don't think that I'm untalented, but I think if I have, if there's something that I'm really good at, it's understanding the vibe of something, you know? Like when we're, when me and collaborators get into a story, I'm oftentimes the,

31:00
I've sort of like on local man for sure, Sealy will tell you that like, I'm the one that's in charge of making sure that it feels local manny, you know, like the keep the vibe on the right track. And that, so from that comes stuff like, you know, horror stories with animals or like, you know, like being able to sort of feel out something that feels like, like this feels like something and it should be, it should have these types of things in it, you know, like.

31:30
That's ethereal, but that comes from when I talk to other people about making their own stuff. I feel like it all just comes from being able to harness the things that you love and the things that you're into. That becomes your point of view. The way you're raised, the place you come from, how many people are in your family, how you get along with people.

32:00
Like all of that sort of like gets channeled through you. And then when you come to a story, you know, like there's only several, you know, there's like, what do they say, like five different stories. So you're just sort of like always telling the same story, but the difference is like, who's telling it with what characters and how are, you know. Um, so the ideas that I like, the idea we had for Local Man was sort of, um, came from, from Tim and I both loving.

32:28
those image comics but loving them in a different way than I think a lot of people did. Where we sort of love the energy of them and the way I think about them is that people look back at those books, you get them out of like dollar piles or quarter piles now and they're made by like 22 year old kids who just have all the power in the world and they're just like all this sort of like testosterone and guns and

32:57
Big titty mamas and just like, you know, like everything is about like, uh, like it has like religious overtones and also none of it, it's all sort of sanitized still like comic books. Like they, they will, they'll murder people, you know, with, with like guns that have knives on them, but they won't say shit, you know, or so it's like, it's like this interesting thing. But I think about it the same way people who liked like Bronze Age comics think about those like

33:26
They're just made as a disposable entertainment for kids. And for that time, the way it hit me excited me so much. The energy that those comics had gave me such a jolt of excitement. And the limitless creativity of people that are working for themselves and not for somebody else got into my bones. And so...

33:56
making a local man, we were like, let's do something that harnesses that, that talks about that and that sort of treats those characters the way like Dark Knight treats Batman, you know, or like, not that we're as good as Dark Knight, but like, you know, Dark Knight, Frank Miller, a smart guy, takes Batman, a children's character, and goes, well, what if he had real shit going on and real, you know, like, what if his back hurt? And what if everything got worse than he could handle and he quit?

34:26
You know, and so it was basically that, like, let's take this, this idea, these characters and treat them with the same sort of respect that people treat Marvel and these characters. And we weren't using, um, young blood or wildcats or whatever, a lot of times because they don't live at image anymore. Um, but we, but we wanted to sort of like say something about that time. And Tim draws just like image comics look in the nineties and, and I can do a pretty good.

34:56
sort of like crime noir-y, you know, photo ref style. And so we're just like, you know, like Robert Rodriguez, El Mariachi, like what are the things that we have? What can we put together to make a story with, you know? I'll go ahead and say once again, for anyone that's listening that might not be reading Local Man, and in my opinion, it's probably like the best bang for your buck because you're essentially getting two stories. You know, you've got the front matter, then you can literally turn the comic book over. You've got the second story in a flashback form.

35:26
But I'll go out and give Tim Sealy even more flowers and say, I look forward to his letter pay like no one else. Like I think he writes in such a smart way. Like he's really honest about the industry and what books are out. So to me, like Local Man is like a full package comic. I gladly give whatever. I don't even know how much it is. It's just like, yo, Ben, come on. You know, I need Local Man. Four dollars. Yeah, four dollars. Exactly. And you get so much. So because we've given,

35:55
Tim Seely so much love. I wanna talk about some of your other collaborators and artists that you've worked for. I'm gonna say a couple of names and I want you just to tell me what comes to mind, whether that be just some words, a thought, or maybe even an anecdote, all right? All right. All right, how about this? How about we start with Tone Rodriguez, who is the artist on Feral. What words come to mind for Tone Rodriguez? So Tone Rodriguez, out of all my collaborators, is...

36:22
the one who I'm closest friends with. We worked together in a studio for, since like 2009, from 2009 to like 16, I think is when he moved away. But we used to live right next door to each other. Like I moved, I rented the house next to him because I was just in the studio working so much. But he, we would work together on projects and he's just such a

36:51
like excellent comic book maker, like in a, and he can just do, like you can just give him a thing and tell him go and he can just knock it out. He's like a machine. And when I started making creator on comics and I started writing stuff, he was too busy at the time to like be the artist on these things and sort of like I couldn't afford it. But what we could do is I could pay him to do layouts. So I did this book Time Shopper.

37:19
And I paid him to do layouts for that because my buddy Christian who drew it was a newer artist and hadn't done a lot of sort of panel to panel storytelling. So I was like, well, let me get Tona to do layouts and then you just draw over that. And that worked out great. And then that was what I did right before Stray Dogs. And again, with Stray Dogs, Trish Forsner was a brand new comic artist. She hadn't done panel to panel stuff before. So I was like, no problem there. You're dope at drawing dogs. And we can get you the rest of the way there.

37:47
the tone will draw the backgrounds and the layouts and stuff like that. Um, and so he did that for Stray Dogs. And then when we got to Farrell, he had, um, he'd always, he'd always been credited as the layout artist and in between Stray Dogs and Farrell, he started working digitally. He'd been just doing stuff on paper up until then. And when he figured out digital, it's like he sort of leveled up again. And Trish did Farrell digitally. And so just like Tim and I worked together on Local Man.

38:16
I was like, well, on this one, why don't you just be co-artists? And so instead of just drawing the layouts, just have you draw all the backgrounds and then just don't draw the cats and don't draw the raccoons or wolves or whatever, and then Trish will come in and draw that part and then just sort of like funnel it together and put it out that way. So that's, that's how we do that. So Tone, one of my best friends, he actually, um, like comes out and stays at my house, like probably every six weeks or so every...

38:43
two months and we'll just like go work together in the studio like we used to do. Cause he lives in Louisiana now, but we'll go work in the studio and I'll be drawing local man or I'll be drawing, you know, thumbnails for, for feral or whatever. And then he'll just be there. Um, just drawing feral, you know, in, in the studio on his iPad. So it's fun. That is so cool to hear. I don't think I hear too many, you know, I mean, we live in a digital age. Of course it makes sense to like, you know, work via email, drop box and things like that, but I don't think I hear too many.

39:12
collaborators have an opportunity to be in the same room and bounce off that energy. In my mind, as someone that is also a big music buff, it's always cool to hear when artists get a chance to be in the same room and bounce off that energy and just that direct contact, I think, in the right hands it produces something really magical to be, really magical being in the same proximity and feeding off each other like that.

39:39
Oh, great. Yeah. And then it's just like you're there with somebody else who works on the same thing. So you're like, like Trish and I have gone on, like, signing tours together. We'll spend tons of time together and we'll be able to sort of like kick story ideas back and forth. They're Tom and I, we're working together. We'll sort of stick, kick story ideas back and forth. So it's really like creative times. Like it's fun times to have to be working on a thing together in the same place. You know. All right. What comes to mind when I say Dave Wachter?

40:09
I might have. Wachter. Yeah. Wachter. Rounds with factor. Who is the artist on Uncanny Valley with? Again, this is a guy I've known for maybe 20 years. We came into the industry at around the same time. We both were doing self-published or small press stuff, like in message board days, and we worked together on a tiny project back then.

40:36
And then we just sort of kept in contact because we were both like, we both went to IDW at around the same time. We both had like the same editor there. He did turtles and I did ponies. Um, and then when he started getting Marvel stuff and like doing like he had did a bunch of cool, like creator on mini series and stuff, um, I always kept up with them and would like keep in touch. And sometimes we would do conventions together. So we're like, like IRL friends. Um, and then years ago I had.

41:04
pitched him this idea for Uncanny Valley, which I don't even think was called Uncanny Valley at the time. But it was just this idea about a kid who finds out that he's part cartoon and it's sort of like real world and cartoon world and all this sort of like cartoon stuff starts happening in the real world. And I asked him if he wanted to draw it, but I said, I was like, I'm thinking of having two artists where one guy draws the real world stuff and one guy draws the cartoon stuff. Would you want to draw the real world stuff? Because he's like a great-

41:34
realistic artist and I had, I don't think I'd seen him draw anything cartoony. And he was like, that sounds like you're asking me to do the boring parts. And so I was like, all right, fair enough. You know, like he stood up for himself, point taken. And then it was literally years before somebody sort of picked that story out of like, I have this document of all my story ideas and boom.

42:01
looked at that whole document and they're like, tell us about more about Uncanny Valley. And we started talking about it. And when we got to figuring out who the artist was, they were sort of leaning towards these artists who were all cartoony, which as a cartoony artist myself, I know that it's more difficult to find somebody who can do that and also draw realistic than it would be to find somebody that can draw realistic, but then also can do cartoony. So I...

42:27
remembered talking to Dave about this and I just texted him before I even mentioned it to Boom and I was like, hey, can you draw cartoons too? I'm back on this thing. Literally the text was like 10 years after I had brought it up to him the first time. We hadn't talked about it again since then, but he was like, yeah, I can do that. Really, I think he was bullshitting. I think he was just sort of like as an artist and he sort of thinks about comics as like you need to be able to draw everything, you need to be able to draw.

42:57
and a Volkswagen Beetle and you know, like whatever is in the script, you need to be able to draw that. And so he was like, yeah, I can draw any different kind of cartoon character. Sure. And so I was like, all right, well, let me, so I took it to boom. And now we make this book together and it's a true delight making this thing. Like we talked earlier about how I'm sort of heavy handed with artists that I work with. And in this case is the least heavy handed that I am.

43:26
which is still a little bit, but he delivers such cool-looking stuff where... I think we made something that looked really interesting with Stray Dogs and with Feral, where it looked like a certain kind of thing. I think Dave is doing that again with this, where it looks like a Roger Rabbit, or it looks like a Space Jam or a Cool World. There's real people and cartoon people right next to each other.

43:54
Yeah, no, I'm telling you, on Canning Valley, when I read the first issue, I immediately called my best friend, who was in this DuckTales thing. He found the last DuckTales animated cartoon, which came out not too long ago. So he was really into going back to the old cartoons and Looney Tunes and things. I was like, dude, you gotta read this. And I did, I think, a poor job of describing. I'm like, then there's cartoon effects in that real life. He was like, yo, say less. And now that's one of his favorite books.

44:23
So once again, the comics that you're putting out to me are really fresh, and the ideas and the hooks are really interesting. Really excited about that. But Uncanny Valley, I think, if we can pull it off like I think we're going to, I feel like that's going to be a big deal. Oh, yeah. Or just the few thousand people that read it will really like it. I can't predict how the success of it will be, but if we.

44:50
If it comes off like I think it's going to come off, I'm very excited for the end of it and for the people to see it. I got one more person's name I want to bring up since we talked about Army of Darkness forever. I would feel remiss if I didn't mention. What comes to mind when you hear Justin Greenwood's name? Yeah, another close friend of mine. Justin lives in Northern California and we know each other.

45:15
through my buddy Dennis Culver, who edits Feral and who's the writer on Unstoppable Doom Patrol at DC. And he's done a bunch of, he's a writer. But we've known each other for years. And through the pandemic, we were on like a virtual studio, basically, where we would all get on Google Hangouts and just sort of like be together when the rest of the world, when nobody was together in the world, you know, and we just sort of like...

45:44
be there working and making our comics. I was making stray dogs around him and all this other stuff that's coming out now. I started working on hanging out with Justin and other friends, Ramon Villalobos and Sophie Campbell and Dennis and Chris Burnham. That is an insane lineup of names you just said, like Sophie Campbell, Bill Burnham. Yeah. Wow, that's awesome. Not Bo Burnham.

46:11
Yeah, I just realized after I said I was like, that's a comedian. He was doing something else in the pandemic. He would have been there. He would have been there. He was shooting a special. He might not have made that special if he would have just been hanging out with me. We weren't lonely like that. But yeah, so Justin, I've always been a fan of his work. He did a book with my buddy Dennis called Crone at Dark Horse that's sort of like old man red Sonja, you know? Like it's like a red Sonja at the end of her journey type story.

46:41
Um, and when I talked to dynamite about army of darkness, we, we, like everything had been going great. And then they started sending me artists and nothing really felt like the vibe that I, that I saw the, again, like, you know, I said, I can sort of feel like what the, what the vibe is. Um, nothing felt like it was just that. And then Justin was down here when local man launched, he had started a book at the same time called torrent. Um, and that was coming out.

47:12
And I was looking at these artists that they're sending. I was like, man, I wish you could just draw this thing. And he was like, well, I'm wrapped up with torrent, you know, like, what do you got? And so we just started talking and, and, um, and then I sent, you know, I talked to Joe, uh, the editor of the book and was just like, what about Justin? He's done this, you know, he did stump town with Greg Rucka and, you know, he's got a cool pedigree and he's never done like a licensed book like this. Like he doesn't, you know, I think it would be cool to get him on this. And they were like, yeah, that'd be awesome.

47:42
And so he just came in and similar to Dave, you know, I love Justin's storytelling so much and I trust his instincts and stuff like that. And I also love that he has like this sort of like cool, like Frank Millery cartoony bounce to his work. And I felt like that sort of matched the character of Ash and the sort of like not quite, not all the way serious nature of.

48:11
of the Evil Dead movies. The stakes are real. People really die and get dismembered and torn apart and stuff, but there's also this sarcastic wackiness to them. I felt like Justin had that in his work. That was super fun to get to work with. It was a bummer that he couldn't do the whole deal. He's always committed to six projects out. He had a little window.

48:39
where he could do the first six with us. And then luckily, I met Pop Man at a convention just as he was wrapping up and I'd been like a super fan of that guy. When I was a kid, in those image comics that I talked about that filled me with such creative spark, some of his were those. And so I talked to him and he was just, it looked like he wanted to work together. And I was like, I have this book, I have this opportunity.

49:08
So the two big takeaways I got from all of these name drops is that Tony's key two keys to success have insanely talented friends and be able to read the vibes You got a bit, you know, that's that's something they don't teach you in school Like taste and being able to like tap in and read the vibe taste is a big deal. I remember Like before Kanye West was crazy. He would talk about like

49:35
his taste level and the and like this stuff that he was inputting was different than what everybody else was inputting. And that's what made his stuff different was like, you know, I remember like he would he was into like, what's his name, the guy that made Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mine. Oh, Michael Gondry, Michael Gondry. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Michelle. And then thank you. And then he found the the composer of that movie and put him on late registry like

50:04
It's just seeing different pieces in different things and thinking, that could work in the thing that I make. But also having different inputs. If everybody just read the same stuff or watched the same TV shows, then the comics that they make are going to feel pretty much the same. I feel like I'm cooking up a different stew.

50:28
And I hope you know that you might have opened the floodgates to my back pocket hip hop questions I had because Let's go. John, I think it's John Bryon. Bryon? Man, I'm butchering all types. It's been a long week, folks. But John Bryon was the composer for Eternal Sunshine Spotless Mind, who was a big influence on late registration, which in my opinion, I mean, it's like one A or it flip flops for me.

50:53
between 1A and 1B of Kanye's best albums. I think My Beautiful Dark Toys of Fantasy is like his number one, but on some days I'm like, nah, late registration just for the, just how lush it is, the harmonies, the melodies, the instrumentation. I mean, that is- Not Brian is the, I feel him the most on Gone, which is like maybe the best. Gone, is that the one- Strings and stuff. Yeah, is Gone the, wait, that's not the one with Cameron, is it? Yeah. Oh, okay. I think it is. Yeah, asking Cam how-

51:22
how long had this gone on? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I gotta ask, it sounds like, I already know the answer. I was gonna ask, are you a hip hop head? Because there's two pieces of evidence that peaked, like made my ears perk. Interesting. One was on your Twitter handle. It's like, hey, writer of, straight dogs, logo, da da da. But then at the very last bit, you write half man, half amazing. And obviously the Nas song starts playing in my head, half man, half amazing. And then the second piece that I'm like, I wonder if there's any connection here.

51:52
Your first, I don't know if it's your first book, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the one that puts you on the map, like your first book that really puts you on the map, In My Lifetime. Is that a reference to Jay-Z's second album? Yeah. Come on, man. Tony, okay. It's a reference to the song, the single before the second album. For sure, yeah, yeah. In My Lifetime. I guess what are some of your favorite albums and favorite artists? It sounds like you are a fan of some similar

52:21
Artists that I like, it sounds like you've kind of come up from that golden age and like, you know, the classics, the nods, the J's and all that. Yeah, I love Wu Tang. And I go pretty hard on Wu Tang. I'm super. I mean, obviously, 36 Chambers, but I really like the RZA Bobby Digital album a lot, even when it gets wacky and crazy. I've been going back. I've been going back a lot to Wu Tang recently.

52:50
I caught them with Wu-Tang and Nas, obviously, I've been touring and they came to Jacksonville. I caught them there and then I went to Philadelphia for the Roots picnic. So I caught Method Man and Red Man there and Black Thought also came out. So it was awesome. Oh, yes. I saw clips of that. I saw clips of them, of them rapping together. Yeah, that's crazy. I skipped the, I had tickets to the 97 Rage Against the Machine Wu-Tang tour.

53:20
Oh, wow. And then Wu Tang bailed. Like they only made it on the first few dates and then the roots replaced them. But it was before things fall apart. And so I was not I had I didn't know. And so I was just like, fuck this, I'm not even going. And so I did not go see the roots of Rage Against the Machine in 1997, which would have been amazing to see. Have you been to any other like rap shows or rap concerts? I have. I don't go anymore, though, because as you can see, I'm quite old.

53:50
I get into my head about how I'm split like it's my head bobbing the right way. I feel like this beard just looks like a glow in the dark, like a neon sign. I think the last one I went to, I went and saw Jay Z when he was on tour with Justin Timberlake. Oh, the what was it? It was like the 2020 Magna Carta Holy Grail. Magna Carta Holy Grail.

54:18
the most ballerist record he ever made. It's crazy that that was before, what was it, 4- Yeah, before 444. Yeah, that was, yeah, it was Blueprint 3, Magna Carta Holy Grail, and then 444. I won't lie to you, Magna Carta Holy Grail is one that had to grow on me. It's inaccessible to anyone that's not a billionaire. Like, you listen to it and you're just like- Well said. It's just rude to people. Way too much opulence. You know, it's like, yo, you just did this.

54:45
on wash the throne, why are you ramping up the rich talk? You know, but I'm glad that he came back with 444, which to me is like a top five J album. Not like I needed any more reasons to like you, but being a hip hop head is an easy way to win me over. But okay, on the topic of in my lifetime, I wanted to share what I think is one of the funniest blurbs I've ever seen on a book. So I was looking up in my lifetime, I found this random posting or listing on Midtown Comics,

55:15
In the description, I'll read the description. I've got a question for you here, but it says, you know, in my lifetime volume, oh, in my lifetime volume one, in my lifetime issue one came out in 2006, written and drawn by you. The description reads, Sony fleek's manhood is on the line. His debut comic explains why girlfriends are barred from comic stores and how cancer improved his sex life. Warren Ellis, creator of Planetary, Transmetropolitan, and the authority calls it, quote, brave.

55:45
brilliantly observed comedy and the first autobiographical biographical comic in years that hasn't made me want to punch the author in the stomach, which I think is a fucking great blurb. That guy's a good writer. Yeah, and he knows a thing or two about words. What would you say was your welcome to the comic industry moment? Like what for you personally was like, oh shit, I'm really here. Like I'm in it.

56:15
That was one of them for sure. That just sort of came out of message boards. I put that comic together when I was a poster on the Bendis message board. Warren Ellis had his own forum, but he also would post on the Bendis message board sometimes too. I was asking about how do I write that solicit basically. Because at the time it was going to be in the back of the catalog and basically the only way anybody would see this thing was

56:44
was by like what was written in the solicit if they saw it at all. And so I had this sort of like, I was like sort of like crowd sourcing ideas and Warren Ellis popped up and he was like, you should say this. And he had like a solicit for it, but it wasn't quite it. And I was like, that's awesome that you even popped up in here, you know, because we weren't friends and we didn't know each other. But I was like, but that's not quite it. It's not quite the book. And he was like, well, let me see the book. And so then I just like sent it to him and he read it and he said that.

57:14
And so, that felt a lot like it wasn't like you're in comics and you can make your living at it, but it did feel like, oh wow, this might be something. And then when that came out, it got written up in Wizard Magazine a couple times on my comics buyers guide. And so, like people noticed it. And that felt a lot like if I went to a comic convention or something and I introduced myself, I could say like I make comics and I wouldn't feel any kind of sheepish about it.

57:43
or anything. I guess if you had to give advice to any aspiring comic writers, artists, or just people that want to get in the industry, based on something that you wish you would have known when you first started that maybe would have made your life a hell of a lot easier, what would that be? So when I was a kid thinking about doing this, and even when I was younger and actually doing it, I would always think about

58:13
I would set up a list of things I'd have to do to do this thing, where it's like, all right, first I got to do this, and after I do that, then I can do this, and then I can do that, and then I can make a comic, and then I can send that comic to Marvel and DC and sort of make this list in your head. Even if it's not as delineated as that, you do think about it in terms of, well, I can't just do it. I have to do all these things to get there. And what I learned is that the sooner you just get to doing it...

58:43
the sooner you can start doing it and getting better at it. And like, you know, the first thing you do might not necessarily be the best thing ever, but it's better to actually start making it and have a critical eye to it, but just keep making stuff. And that's the way you get better at doing it. I...

59:06
It's anytime that I've actually just done something, it's usually – and again, this might not work for everyone. But anytime I've actually just sat down and go like, all right, well, I'm going to make this and we're going to do it. I did that with stray dogs. I did that in my lifetime. I think, again, it helps if you have an interesting take, if you have a perspective, if your taste level is a certain thing and that makes the things that you put out a different kind of thing. That's helpful.

59:34
you have to just actually just start making, you know, making stuff. What's that saying? Progress. I'm sorry. Perfection is the enemy of progress. I've also heard it say like, yeah, perfection is the enemy of done. We say done is beautiful here. Oh, well said. Yeah, I like that. My studio is beautiful. All right, Tony, I've got, I've just got a handful of questions, but I'm actually going to take a break from asking questions and let a big fan of yours ask this next question. I've reached out to

01:00:03
my local comic shop, the owner of my local comic shop, his name's Ben Kingsbury, he runs Got the City Limit here in Jacksonville, Florida. He's also been a big fan and sponsor of this show, and anytime that I can get him involved from a retailer perspective to be able to chat with some of the creators I have on, I always jump to the opportunity. He also asks some of the most outlandish and sometimes most creative questions out there. I know that in interviews you've spoken about.

01:00:27
being an ally to comic shops and really wanting to help them push books and make their lives easier. I think you'll appreciate him chiming in here. Hey, Tony, Ben K, Gotham City Limit, Jacksonville, Florida. I got a couple of questions for you today. First has to do with stray dogs and feral. The movie horror homage variant covers have been a smash success, especially here at our shop in Jacksonville.

01:00:56
Where did that idea come from? And if you could pick one horror movie that's influenced your writing to this day, which would it be? And then secondly, I personally love Uncanny Valley. Takes me back to the 80s, gives me that Looney Tunes vibes. So if you had to pick one character for Looney Tunes, who you taking? Well, I'll leave you the answer here. Thanks so much. Continued success on all the books.

01:01:22
We literally couldn't do it without awesome creators just like you. Hey, in short box nation, remember, always take it to the limit. You know, big shout out to Ben. I love the energy, man. Thank you, Ben. Uh, easy answer. Lola bunny. I'm going to answer. That's easy. You're like space jam one Lola bunny at that. Oh yeah. Not this noodle. It was be clear. Yeah.

01:01:52
And then his other questions were... The movie posters. Yeah, the movie posters. That came from my buddy Dennis. It's a combination of things. My buddy Dennis, who's the editor on Feral, and a retailer out here named Ed Greenberg, who has three shops in LA called Collectors Paradise. And at the time that we were putting Stray Dogs together, Bitter Root was doing the like movie homage covers. They did the right thing.

01:02:21
And he was like, these do great for us. You should do those. And he suggested doing like, because it was like an animated style, he suggested doing like animated style covers. So do like a lady in the tramp and do like, you know, Oliver and company and stuff. And I, it didn't hit me just right. Partially because when we talked earlier about that chip I had on my shoulder, like part of me wants to do everything myself, you know, part of me wants to not be beholden to anybody else for anything, you know?

01:02:51
And so, partially I was like, I don't think that's it. I don't think that's this book. But then I was talking to Dennis about it. We were in the studio together and he said, he was like, well, you should do horror movies. And then I talked to the people at Image and I said, what about horror movies with these dogs on it? And they're like, yeah, that's great because that tells the story of what this book is. It says this is a horror book that has dogs in it.

01:03:18
So it actually, like I could sort of give myself the permission to bite somebody else's thing a little bit. Where I would have felt corny about it otherwise, or I would have felt like this isn't quite the vibe of this thing. But when that came along, I was like, oh, that actually does do like the job for these retailers of saying, you know, if they don't have time to tell somebody this is a horror book with cartoon dogs in it.

01:03:45
They can just see the cover of this and it looks like Pet Sematary and it has a cartoon dog on the cover or it looks like Annabelle or it looks like, you know. So that and then I have this secret superpower of being able to mimic logos and design and stuff like that. Like I can do it as good or better than anybody else. And so I was able to sort of like bring that to bear on this, what ended up being a huge project.

01:04:13
where at first it was just like, oh, we do this five times. I'll be real specific and pick out like my five favorite horror movies and we'll do those for the B covers. And then when the book started getting reprinted over and over again, and then people started wanting to do the retailer variant covers and we did the dog day series and then that had a ton of covers and retailer covers. So we just ended up doing hundreds of them. And like I said, it's something that I have a talent for.

01:04:43
as far as taking something and making it look like another thing. We do that with Local Man, we do the Image Comics homage covers, and we do that with... So basically, once I figured out that you can use that as a trick to say what this book is, then that opened up that box for me.

01:05:05
Yeah. And, uh, it's a horror movie that's influenced my writing. It's not a full horror movie, but I think about the sort of like, uh, question and answer parts of Shaun of the Dead a lot where they sort of like set up something and then they knock it down later, very literally, like it's almost like you make it, uh, make it, um,

01:05:27
make the invisible thing visible so that somebody else watching it goes like, Oh, that's how you do that. So like, that's how you set something up in the first act and then you pay it off later. They literally say like, you know, you know, like this thing would never happen. And then later you have that exact thing. Happen, you know, I find myself doing that sort of stuff all the time. Yeah. Solid answers. I guess on the topic of local comic shops, you know, just hearing from Ben, um, I think I've read somewhere that you're

01:05:54
a regular Wednesday Warrior too, right? Like do you go to a, so you've got a shop that you regularly go into, I guess what's the shop and what's on your pull list? Like what are you pulling? I go to House of Secrets in Burbank and I pull list, what's on there right now? I just have creators on there. So I'll have them pull like anything Brian K. Vaughan does, anything that Burbaker does. I get pretty much all the Kelly Thompson stuff. I like

01:06:24
She-Hulk. I like that writer of She-Hulk, Rainbow Rowell. I'm less and less Marvel and DC stuff lately, which I sort of go on. It sort of goes in cycles where I'll be all the way out or I'll have just like be keeping up with a few and then something will happen and I'll go check out the Krakoan era or I'll go check out, they relaunched Star Wars and I was like, let me check out these

01:06:54
I'll just sort of dip in on those. I feel like there's a couple of DC books I dig. Well, I like Birds of Prey. Birds of Prey is like one of the best looking books out there. And I believe it's Lee Romero? Romero? I know the last name is Romero. Yeah, it's one of the best looking books out there. And I completely feel you on as far as like, you know, the big two and kind of going in cycles and popping in and out. I just feel like...

01:07:20
Indie comics and term and I'm talking like even more indie than image, like seeing what is coming out of boom studios and IDW and scout comics and all of that. It feels like we are in a different, I don't know, maybe this is like, maybe aiming a little too high. This might be a lot of hyperbole, but I feel like we were in another Renaissance in terms of like indie publishers just kind of like just sprouting and then also getting really talented creators, whether that be big names that

01:07:48
are coming from the big two, an image or and then ones that you've never heard of. I just feel like comic books is just, you know, you hear comic books is dying, this and that is like, I don't think you guys are looking at the right places or reading them like you should because the indie stuff has been smashed. Well, I think the superheroes, it's an interesting time for them because they've never had to figure out what their deal is like they're having to right now, because we're sort of at the end of.

01:08:17
20 years of superheroes being the entire pop culture, right? Marvel, Cinematic Universe, Zack Snyder, DC, whatever. Everything people were getting psyched about in the whole pop culture was superheroes. Comics up until then had just been where you go to get superheroes. Now people go to Spider-Verse to get their Miles Morales, or they go, they wait for the PlayStation game to get their Spider-Man. Comics are really figuring out what

01:08:45
what they are if they're superhero comics, like what it is that makes them special. I think it's gonna, it's taken a little while for them to figure that out. But on the other hand, the like the creator of comics, the kind of stuff that I do, I agree. Like I think it's incredibly fertile time. I think, you know, there hasn't been this much like diversity of comics where it's just like, not just crime comics and not just like off-track superhero comics or whatever. Like it's like there's fucking beneath the trees where nobody sees and there's

01:09:15
There's no genre that isn't being represented in comics and represented really well. Yeah, for sure. Isn't embarrassment a riches in terms of like, like you said, the diversity and quality of comic books out there from publishers that, you know, are sprouting up that seems like every day, but yeah, I totally agree with what you're saying. I feel like you're just looking for something, or at least I am, I'm just looking for something to make me feel something. Yes.

01:09:45
shortcut to that, right? Like if you're good at it, if you do that right, you can make somebody feel something every issue. They feel scared, they feel uncomfortable, they feel whatever, but whatever they feel, they'll remember it, you know? And so then the next time you go to pick up like the deviant or beneath the trees or feral or whatever, you go like, oh, I remember what happened last time, that was fucked. I didn't like the way that made me feel or whatever, but I gotta check back in and see what's happening now.

01:10:12
Yeah. So I guess that might be my new rating system on a scale of one to, yeah, we're fucked. Yeah, that was fucked. Yeah, that was fucked. All right, Tony. I've got one last question now. I want to end on, on a bang here. It's kind of 180. It kind of puts you on the spot, but considering that you are a writer and artist extraordinaire, I'm curious to hear who is on your comic book route, Mount Rushmore. And typically I ask folks if it's a writer, I'll ask for their top five or not top five, but Mount Rushmore is four.

01:10:40
Feel free to do a fifth, but I'll ask for a writers, you know, Mount writers, Mount Rushmore artists are Rushmore. But in your case, I'll let you kind of do an amalgam if you want, who is on your comic book Mount Rushmore. And if you want to add a fifth spot, you're more than welcome. All right. Well this, we don't have to actually carve this into stone. So I'm going to just go off the top of my head. That's how you feeling today. I mean, I think that's the caveat. This could change tomorrow. The next time I ask. As far as like who, who influenced me, like what the

01:11:10
where I feel myself aspiring to be a creator like they were creators, Brian Michael Bendis was huge for me. And especially when we talk about making people feel something, he was great at moments. I'm always thinking about what are the moments. And I feel like people sort of get lost in the sauce when they think about his dialogue and like

01:11:38
pitter patter and discussion and stuff like that. And you forget about those big holy shit moments like, you know, secret invasion or whatever when Norman Osborn kills the Queen's scroll. And he was like, oh no, you know, like, like he was good at that type of stuff. David Lapham, Stray Bullets is probably one of my top two or three comics of all time. And that, and again, that book makes you really like, that's the only comic that ever made me cry. Like it's like.

01:12:08
It's just like a crime comic about dirtbags and idiots. But also it's like they're so vulnerable and so. Like they're never safe. And so you're always just like, oh, God, what's going to happen to them? And I feel like that like he's a master of doing that. J. Scott Campbell. Wow. I don't I never saw anybody draw better than him in that.

01:12:35
definitely comes from being like a teenager in 1995 when Gen 13 and Danger Girl come out. But that's the coolest artwork. Everybody that was on Cliffhanger, him, Joe Mad, Humberto Ramos, Chris Natchelo. I'll read anything those guys do. But we'll use J. Scott Campbell as the avatar of that type of thing. So I don't have to give all the heads to just the people from Cliffhanger.

01:13:05
Similarly to that Rob Liefeld, I feel like that sort of energy, that sort of power, like there's so much of his stuff in Local Man and just sort of in the, in the, again, moments and creativity. Like when we're coming up with ideas for stuff and we're just like, when I feel like I'm being my most creative and potent, I'm thinking like,

01:13:35
twice as much of this before breakfast. He was just a very fertile creative mind, especially in those days, like in those young blood ex-force, you know, like he was going crazy in those days. That's four, right? One, two, three, four and five. Oh, Brankay Vaughan, for sure. The way that he does cliffhanger, like he's great at cliffhangers and every page can be a cliffhanger.

01:14:05
and moments and characters. And I think Kirkman does a similar version of it too, where he's just very good at, like he understands what ways to close out a comic, ways to close out a scene, you know? And I think that's the sort of thing, like when you're in it and when you're making comics, and even when you're just reading them, you really appreciate that you're reading something and when you close one and you go, wow, you know?

01:14:33
several times would read Brian K. Vaughan comics and just, you know, close the cover and just be like, God damn, there it was. That's something. All those guys, like that's sort of my generation is those guys like Bendis, Brian K. Vaughan, Ed Brubaker. Like that's, like, those were the ones that were most influential when I was, you know. Dude, that is a solid list. And I enjoy asking that question, not just to catch my guests off guard, but it-

01:14:59
You know, it varies from creator to creator. And I got to say, that might be one of the most unique ones. You had a lot of names that I personally would probably put on a list. I'm glad that you gave Brian Michael Bendis a lot of love, because I feel like it's cool to joke on him and, quote unquote, hate on him today. I see that a lot among like comic Twitter and Reddit and things. But it's like, yo, let's be real. When Brian Michael Bendis was like in his heyday and his absolute prime, not saying that what he's doing now isn't good.

01:15:28
He did a brand new thing, did something completely different and changed the way everybody would do things. Yeah, he was hugely influential on me, but yeah. Agreed. And now you got me thinking about all the times I used to sneak my dad's Danger Girl comics as a teenager in high school. Like, yo, you're right. That art is burned in my memory. J. Scott Campbell is insanely talented. Yeah. Man, Tony, this has been a fantastic conversation.

01:15:58
to be an hour, but lo and behold, I enjoyed every single minute of it. Ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast and we just finished talking to Tony Fleece about all of the comics he's currently working on like Feral, Local Man, Army of Darkness, Army of Darkness Forever, and Uncanny Valley, which are all available right now and releasing every month at your local comic shops and wherever else comics are sold. Please do yourselves a favor, add these books to your pull list, grab the trades when they come out.

01:16:26
and follow Tony on X and Instagram to stay up to date with what he's got going on. I'm gonna have links to, I'm gonna have a couple of links in these show notes. If you wanna give Tony a follow and see what he's got going on, check out the show notes for that. But Tony, like I said, this has been a fantastic conversation. Do you have anything else that you wanna share that we didn't get to, any parting words or any upcoming projects you want people to know? I'm doing Super Pets with Mike Norton. It's a one shot at DC.

01:16:54
Uh, that's, I think in, in solicits now, but otherwise you covered all the important stuff on Kenny Valley, local man, feral army darkness forever, every month. Um, yeah, that's all you need to know. And thanks for having me on. Thanks for reading my books. I appreciate it. Oh yeah. No, my pleasure, man. And, uh, I hope to have you on again. I will be, yeah, I obviously I'm following three or four of these books. I might just go ahead and make it a fourth one, but I've got some awesome homework cause I, I think I'm gonna go to check out in my lifetime.

01:17:23
while listening to In My Lifetime. Good, good. And I'm probably going to check out A Straight Bullets, because you really won me over with your description about that. Issue eight is the one that made me cry. Just let me know, you're my favorite.

01:17:39
There you have it Shortbox Nation, that's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out, thanks for being here, and a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a 5 star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

01:18:07
or wherever you get your podcast. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash The Short Box. It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash The Short Box.

01:18:34
Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chaitani, Tony Aupi, RC Gamet, Blake Simone, Blythe Brumleaf, Bo Evers, Brian Brumleaf, Chad Landenberger, Chris Hacker, Chris Jinx, Kenny Myers, David Morales, Triple D Mystic, Dominique Jackson, Errol White, Edbot 5000, Generation Jaguar, Greg Hopkins, Greg Ligtig, Henry Hernandez, Hershel, Hydrus96 aka Mac J. Sinner.

01:19:03
Jeff Frimmett, Jerome Cabanatan, Joshua Miller, Justin McCoy, Kara Reichardt, Cassie Whitley, Corey Torgeson, Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin, Nick Wagner, Podcasters Assemble, Stephen Gamet, T-Mix, The Wait For It podcast, Thomas Pandich, Thurian, Trey Namo, Walter Gantt, Warren Evans, and Zach Armour. Thanks again to everyone that listens and supports this show. Be sure to come back next week for a new episode. And most importantly, take care of yourselves. Read a good comic.

01:19:32
and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.