Absolutely All-In: An interview with Scott Snyder about Batman, DC Comics, and The Absolute Universe - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 439

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in this episode of The Short Box. It's funny, because I was saying to Nick a couple days ago, he was asking me about some of my favorite things in our Batman run, and some of them are the things that everybody would cite as probably the scenes that they like, but a couple of my favorite, my real favorites are like, there's a moment in Super Heavy where Bruce Wayne has had his memory wiped, and he's starting to realize he was Batman.

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before and he doesn't know how to be him again. He sits down on a bench at a pond and the Joker who also is human and had his mind wiped and the thing sits down next to him. And the two of them have this conversation not knowing that he used to be Batman, he used to be the Joker, but it actually cuts to the core of who they are. And it's not some scene that people ever cite as like their favorite thing that we did. But to me, it's one of my like three favorite things because it was very much like a deep exploration of

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what these characters are. Those little moments when you can do something you haven't done and hasn't been done, but it's also trying to speak on what Batman means, those are the things that are magic. It all becomes like fresh and fun.

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Intro music plays

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Yo, Shortbox Nation. Hello again and welcome back. Thanks for pressing play today, all right? You guys know how it goes. You guys initiate this wonderful exchange that we get to do every week by pressing play and I appreciate that. Now, if you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Bodder and this is the Shortbox Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. This episode 439 ends up brought to you by two amazing benefactors.

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Go visit the shop for yourself on Southside Boulevard right next to Tentaltown Movie Theater and tell them that I sent you, all right? Tell them that I bought her from the short box, sent you, and I guarantee you'll get hooked up some killer deals. That's at Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. And speaking of Gotham City, that ties nicely to what we'll be talking about this episode. Coming up on the podcast is Scott Snyder, one of the most recognized and celebrated Batman writers of all time. Scott Snyder cemented his place among the all-time great Batman writers.

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Thanks to his highly acclaimed run on Batman in 2011 for DC's New 52 Initiative, alongside co-collaborator and artist, Greg Capullo. His New 52 Batman run not only propelled him into the stratosphere of comic stardom, but it also led to other writing opportunities on other popular DC series like Swamp Thing, Justice League, and DC's Dark Knight Death Metal. And let's not forget about the slew of award-winning indie and creator-owned projects under his belt, like one of my personal favorites, American Vampire for Vertigo.

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You got witches in undiscovered country for image comics. Despite the awards and accolades from fans and critics alike, he shows no sign of stopping because he's on the show today to talk about his brand new Batman series called Absolute Batman. Absolute Batman is part of DC's brand new all in initiative and it's set in the newly minted Absolute Universe, which is an alternate DC universe that features bold new visions of DC's biggest icons like Superman and Wonder Woman. And in this case,

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a new version of Batman like we've never seen before. I want you to imagine a Batman without the mansion, without the Batcave or the money or the butler and the usual cast of rogues and supporting characters we all know and love. And I want you to add about a hundred pounds of muscle and a whole bunch of spikes. And that's what you get. You get the absolute dark knight. You got Scott on writing duties for this new title. You've also got the iconic artist Nick Dragata providing artwork on the covers and interior.

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You got colors by the incomparable colorist, Frank Martin, and lettering from one of the best letters in the game, Clayton Clowes. And good news, issue one is in comic shops by the time you're hearing this episode. So once again, this is another week, another interview where you could be driving to the shop while listening to this to go pick up said book that we'll be talking about and having a complete comic book experience, all right? With all that said, wow, this is...

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Now, look, listeners, as you can tell, this is a much longer intro than I normally do, but we're talking about Scott Snyder, all right? He's on the podcast today to talk about writing this radically new version of The Dark Knight and to explain just what it takes to create a new Batman for the modern age of today. So without further ado, Short Box Nation, let's welcome Scott Snyder to the show. Hey, Scott, welcome to the show. Hey, Bodder. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to this one.

05:56
Thank you. Yeah, I just felt like I just ran a marathon. That was a great intro. I appreciate it. I deserve far less than that. But thank you. You know what, Scott? I think you would get this. I think you might appreciate this. I strive when it comes to those intros. I am hugely inspired by Fat Man on Batman. Kevin Smith. Oh, yeah. It is one of three podcasts that I contribute to, you know, what I do and how long I've been doing it.

06:26
He's like a big inspiration for me. And you were an early guest on Fat Man and Batman, I think when, just when like New 52 was announced or shortly like after Court of Owls. And I got to say, your interview along with Jim Lee's and Paul Dini's are like in my top three comic book interviews. Thanks. Kevin was amazing. I mean, he just makes you feel so at home. You forget you're doing an interview. He's just like...

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so engaged and he's so funny and he just makes you feel like so at home at Secret Stash or wherever you are. It's just like easy, easy, easy to talk. So it was great. I was just going back and forth with him last year about trying to do it again. Oh, that's awesome. Hell yeah. I'd be down for that. What petition we got to sign? I know, right? I just have to make it to Jersey. It's just I had less kids last time I did it. So it's a harder trip to make. I got you.

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Well look, Scott, I want to go ahead and start off by saying congratulations on the pre-orders. We're recording this on Tuesday, October 1st. Just a couple of days ago, I think on the 27th of September, there was a bleeding cool had announced that the pre-orders for Absolute Batman number one had already hit or surpassed 250,000. So a quarter million copies have already been technically sold as of the 27th of September.

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September, I'm sure that number is probably exponentially grown in the past couple of days, but I just want to say congratulations on that. What is it about this title that has garnered a quarter million copies already sold before the issue has even hit? I mean, I know that the name Batman obviously will move units already, but in your opinion, what else is at play here? What makes this the right time for an all new Batman?

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I'm waiting for my mom to admit that she bought like 249,000 copies of it. But no, I'm really humbled. Like honestly, when I signed up to do this, like everybody that knows me will tell you like my plan wasn't to do Absolute Batman at all. I wasn't sure I'd ever go back to a Batman title. But the way that all in came together is an initiative for.

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all of Sharpbox Nation, everybody listening, what we wanted to do was create a moment when you felt welcome into DC, and we'd provide you with every single kind of superhero comic possible. We'd provide you with bold new reinventions of the characters and great continuing series that honor the kind of classic takes, everything at once. And where it came from was I spent the last four years plus doing creator-owned books, like you said, sort of.

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away from superheroes after like a long 10 years in superheroes, which I loved. I love being at DC, but I promised myself that after 10 years, I'd go out and just sort of build my own tree house. And what that allowed me to do really was enjoy superhero comics from a distance, not feel the pressure of working in them while I was reading them. And I'm reading all these great series like Venom and Immortal Hulk and World's Finest and Nightwing and on and on and on.

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As that's happening, there's this cultural conversation going on about how superheroes are over, where superheroes have kind of peaked, you know, because of the cinematic universes reaching their climaxes and then, you know, the wait for them to be kind of renewed like it's happening at DC. And it was really frustrating. It felt like these characters are not only alive and well in comics, but they're living some of their best stories. And it gave me this idea because DC had always been really kind to me, and so was Marvel about inviting me to do a book here or there.

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But I really felt like the thing I wanted to do was be part of something like these great initiatives that I got to experience when I was at DC a couple times throughout that decade. We did one called The New 52, like you mentioned back in 2011, and it was all about rebooting and doing brand new takes on the heroes. And then we did another one in 2016 called Rebirth. It was sort of at the other end of the spectrum that was about going back to classic and reminding people how great these long tapestries of stories are.

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And so I started talking to people at DC, like Josh Williamson, who's an incredible writer, working on, he's on Flash, now he's doing Superman, about teaming up to do an initiative that would give, instead of doing them, instead of thinking of those things, those impulses, like classic and new as separate or opposed to each other, what if we did them at the same time? And we created one big line, one big moment at DC, where we'd create a universe where you could have those new takes on the characters and,

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we create jumping on points where every reader, whether you've lapsed from DC Comics, never read a comic or been reading the entire last 10 years, would have a moment of excitement where it would be like a new story is starting, there's some new creative teams, it's a big welcome. And so all of that was kind of where it came from, but my role in it was always very up in the air. DC hired me as a consultant, and I said I would write a book, but I didn't know if it would be in the Absolute Universe or the Main Universe.

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And so when I finally, what I got to do is fly out to California and talk to them a bunch and get everybody on the same page and say, look, we're gonna do this in a year and a half, two years, and that'll give everybody enough time to get ready. Everyone, every creator, time to sort of decide is my biggest swing to continue the series I'm doing with a new story, to get to a new series, to do something in the absolute universe, what would that be? And I kept going around pitching this and...

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The way I pitched the Absolute Universe, this new universe where we're taking kind of new directions with the characters was this idea I had for Batman, where I said, you know, an example of how you could do a book in the Absolute Universe is you take Batman and you try and make him more of what he is. You try and make him more intensely Batman and put him against things that feel really scary and real right now.

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I kept using that as the kind of you could do that if you wanted, but you could pick any character you want. And so ultimately, and I'm sorry, this is like the longest answer in the universe, but hopefully it kind of speaks to everything. Now please set the groundwork. Nice. The idea is essentially that for me, I kept going around and telling people, take your biggest swing.

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whatever your biggest swing is, that's what we want. Whether it's in the main universe or it's in the absolute universe, whatever your biggest story is. And so eventually my friend James Tynan, you know, who like my little brother in comics, he's amazing, he was the one that called me up and was like, you keep telling everybody to take their biggest swing, but the thing you keep pitching is this Batman story. And I was like, oh, I can't do Batman again. There's no way. And he was like, that's the scariest thing to you. You should do it.

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And so that's how it came about. And so the idea that it would sell the degree it's selling now, which is, you know, like way, just it's so far beyond anything we expected. I mean, I was hoping maybe to sell a hundred thousand. So the idea that it's, you know, it's as high as it is. And not only that we got the sales today for absolute Wonder Woman and it's way over double what they had hoped and that all in special over, you know, over everything's overperforming.

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just makes everybody internally so excited because nobody went into this initiative, me or anyone involved, trying to make it about them or how to shine the spotlight on them. It was all about what can we do, individually take our biggest swing, but collectively all band together and create this moment at DC Comics where you as readers feel like you can come in and find any kind of superhero storytelling, from the boldest to the most classic, all happening at once. So,

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incredibly honored and thrilled and never, every one of my friends, like no one, like I'm more surprised than anybody that the book is selling the way it is and I'm just happy the other books are selling as well as they are because, you know, I was very afraid. I was like, what if I go on Batman and everyone is just completely sick of me and doesn't want anything to do with a Batman written by me at all, you know, and that was a real fear but it felt like, you know, just do the story that you love, do the story you...

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you believe in and hopefully they'll show up. And I have the best fans in the world, so grateful, never expected it. And again, like the biggest hope is that those sales will just drive sales on other books at DC and other books in superhero comics and comics in general. I mean, the numbers clearly state that people are excited for this, that they're looking forward to it. And since we've kind of hit the ground running about the inception of the idea.

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I guess I want to ask about the creative team, because you've got some heavy hitters. I mentioned in the intro, you got Nick Dragata doing interiors and covers, the A covers. You've got Frank Martin, you know, colors. You got Clayton Clowes on letters. Can you talk about how you assembled this A, like this powerhouse group? I was reading your, you and Nick Dragata's interview on sketched and he mentioned something about, you know, you had mentioned that you.

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necessarily weren't sure where you were going to land bookwise. But he kind of gave you an ultimatum. You know, if you don't write it, he wasn't going to do it. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, we each did it to each other. So after James convinced me to do it, I was like, well, only do it if the right artist is available. And Nick was the first person that I thought of. The thing that brought him to mind was that he's got this

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He's got this incredible dynamism to the way he tells a story where it's very sort of influenced by manga and yet it also has this really grounded almost Masa Kelly year one inkiness and grittiness and a real sort of it's not as unmoored as some manga stuff in terms of it's like, you know, it's not melodramatic unless except in the moments where you really want it to punch. It can be very subdued.

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Um, and so that sort of elasticity where it felt like it would have this freshness when action and stuff happened, it would feel really, really vibrant and really fast and out of control. Um, and then when it was grounded and sort of character-based, it could be really subtle. Just felt perfect. It felt like this really new kind of year one style. And, um, Nick, I didn't know Nick well at all. We'd only met once, but we had exchanged emails. I really admired both his work.

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but also his presence in the community. He founded Craters for Creators over at Image, which I'm a part of, along with a bunch of people, which creates a fund for new comic book creators to sort of help support their first efforts in comics. And so he's got this real conscience about being an indie creator. He hasn't done a lot of superhero work. And so for me, it was kind of like, look, if I'm gonna do this, I want it to be so different than what I did with Greg.

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in spirit, all of it, that it's not even really comparable. It's not about this one trying to live up to that one or anything. They're just so different from one another that you almost don't compare them. I called Nick. I was walking around my neighborhood and it was over a year ago. It was summer, like June or something of last year. I told him the idea and I was just like, I started telling him the ideas for the other books, just sort of being like, and this is what the Absolute Universe is. He stopped me and he was like,

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please tell me you're talking to me about doing Batman. I was like, I am, I am, but he's like, and you're writing it? And I was like, I'm thinking about it. And he was like, well, I'll do it if you do it, but I'm not doing it if you don't do it. And I was like, unfortunately, like I called you to be like, if you'll do it, I'll do it. So here we are, right? So, and then he was laughing, you know, we laughed and it was like, all right, let's give it a shot. And Nick, it turns out, I thought he lived on the West Coast, he used to, but he's recently moved right across the Long Island Sound from.

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for me and so he takes the ferry over every couple weeks and we just go into my studio and put the pages up on the wall. I've never worked like that with somebody but he's such a purist and what's really fun about working with him, if you see the aesthetic of the book, when you read it, it's so sort of comic book forward, it's not about like doing a big splash page to sell, it's not about what's glossy or what's.

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It's just this really, really intense sort of dense storytelling. There's multiple panels a page. It's very thought out and designed. Everything is for story. It's really, um, it's just really immersive and I love working with him. I mean, now we've become very, very close after the last like year plus, and, um, he's just a fantastic person, fantastic partner. And, you know, it's the same way I worked with Greg and, and, and again, at Greg was one of the first people I told about it.

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we were doing it and he's always been incredibly supportive and everyone should go check out what he's doing on Wolverine with John. It's amazing. But the spirit we create again with Nick was always like, there's no egos, best idea wins. It's all for story. There's no, you know, how do I show off? It's always about like, what makes the best beat in this for it? And what do you think? And what are you always talking everything through? So we talk every day and we're...

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I mean, I honestly think every issue gets better. I'm on issue four right now with him, and it's one of my favorites that I've ever been a part of. So I'm deeply, deeply proud of it. And so Nick came on, and then Nick has worked with Frank, incredible, incredible colorist on East of West. And so he asked if he could bring Frank in, and DC was supportive of that. And Clayton has done so much amazing.

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stuff at DC that I was like, I hope we can get him and then he came in and was like, can I do the captions almost like notes? Like, please do that. And so everybody's like bringing their game to this book where it just feels it feels like such a passion project. We all talk like everybody is on the email chain. We all share. And with the absolute universe itself, we do a call every two weeks me and Jason Aaron and Kelly Thompson and Jeff Lemire

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Porn Stack Pinochet, Shay Grayson, and Dennis Camp also soon to be a part of all of it and just talk. You know, our books we share in a slack everything. The whole goal is to just be like, we're making this universe for fun together, you know? So it's got a great spirit. I mean, I'm very, that's the thing I'm proudest of about the whole initiative is that, you know, there's a lot of ways to make it, make it

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about one book or to be like, hey, it's about me coming back to DC or it's about, you know, this book with Josh, all in number one and let's just sell that and not care about anything else. But we really tried holistically to make this initiative sincere where we flew out to LA a bunch of times, met with a lot of creators, read a lot of pitches, talked to a lot of people like about it, you know, gave suggestions but never forced anyone to do anything, tried to make it so that everybody was.

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feeling like they were doing the thing they wanted to do to show off in October through December. And sometimes that meant like Tom King continuing the great story he's doing on Wonder Woman, but just starting a great arc, like the one where the baby is born in October. Other times it meant someone like Tom Taylor moving over to Detective Comics and doing that, which he's killing it on. And so he, which you, I mean, he, you'll wait, I know he's killing, because I've read it now, but you'll see in a couple of weeks. But the,

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It was just always trying to embrace whatever anyone wanted to do and be supportive. So to see it all work where everyone's online talking about each other's books, the whole company feels united. It's just fun. It's something we're really proud to be a part of. I want to get back to that collaborative aspect as well as the promotion of Absolute Universe. But really quick, I want to say that I have had the opportunity to...

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read Absolute Batman twice. Tyler, big shout out to Tyler who helped us coordinate this interview. No, Tyler's the man. Everything that you're saying about like just this energy between everyone and this collaborative nature and everyone kind of putting their best foot forward, I wanna say Scott, it is very apparent in Absolute Batman number one. It feels fresh. I love what you said about it, just feeling like a dense story. I definitely got that vibe. I actually...

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didn't realize that there was no giant splash pages to kind of like distract from the story. Not that it's really a distraction, but you know, it's definitely a different storytelling. And I gotta say Nick Dragata, he is a master at just making, and this is such a base compliment, but just making shit look cool, man. It does, dude. His knack for drawing like tech, you know, and just giving it like an espionage flair.

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and you know just like the shadows he plays with it adds to the entire mood it really sells like this is a different deal for Batman and this Gotham is just it's just a different beast in itself so I gotta say the first issue Absolute Batman made me a believer and I love that you know Absolute Batman and All-in Special Number One which is also in shops by the time you're here in this episode yeah listeners that you guys are giving us you know adequate and ample

23:58
um uh pages you know uh page sizes i think all in special is 64 pages and absolute batman is like 48 pages or 99 yeah yeah exactly you know like comic books aren't cheap you know so i do appreciate that you guys are making it worthwhile and you know uh you know looking out for for the readers now i want to get back to what you said about everyone promoting you know each other's books and it really feels like everyone's in lockstep and i want to put a spotlight obviously

24:27
I am someone that goes to League of Comic Geeks maybe twice a day. I mean, I can't even count how many times I'm on that website. Great site. Yeah. Oh, it's a great site. I actually had the opportunity to interview the guy that runs it and makes a Jordan Blanco a year or two ago. Super interesting. So, I love the website. It's been cool watching him grow it, add these features. But one day, I want to say last week as I was kind of like gathering my research material, I go on League of Comic Geeks. I'm kind of seeing like the different covers.

24:57
And I always scroll the comment section just to get a vibe of like, what's the Zygeist saying? What are other fanboys saying? And you know who I see at the very top of the comment section is you. You've left a comment at you're in the thread. So you're in the thread and I'm like, custom I don't have a profile. Now this has got to be some, some random that got the username and all that, but no, it is a verified account. You're on League of Comic Geeks. You're in the comment section, you know, answering questions.

25:23
you know, promoting the book and getting people hype. And I got to ask, like, is that common practice for you? Is that like, you know, part of how you ramp up books and things? Or is this more indicative of just like this new energy when it comes to like the absolute universe? It has been I mean, like what I try and do is, I mean, my my belief is, you know, trying to

25:47
Promotion is fun. I support anyone's engagement with promotion. And there are people involved in all in at every level, absolute every level, that have different sort of comfort levels with promotion. When I started in comics, I was very awkward with it. I wasn't comfortable going to conventions and speaking about the books. I feel like I would go to a convention and drink too much because I was worried about having to go on a panel or that kind of thing. And so I'm very sensitive to the idea

26:16
I'm sensitive to the idea of running an initiative that demands anything of people that they don't feel comfortable with. But for me, where I've landed with it is that I've come to really love that aspect of the job because I feel as though when I love a book and I'm really proud of it, I like going out and talking about it. But the kind of proxy to that or the thesis of that is to try and always be...

26:46
as honest as you can with fans about the nature of that book and do promotion that matches what that book is. So when I do a book like, you know, White Boat or I do a book like, yet with distillery, I try really hard to go out and impress horror people and go to the horror community and go with people that have really liked the books that I've done with Francesco before. White Boat is like a horror book I'm doing with distillery about it's kind of our take on the island of Dr. Moreau. And I love the book.

27:16
and I'd hold it up against the best stuff that I've done and Francesca was killing it, but it's not absolute Batman in the way that I'm not trying to do five or 20 variant cover, sort of, or retailer variant covers and doing a whole, because I don't think that that's the kind of book it is. It's definitely a book that's really commercial for what it is, it's a big horror book. But a better example might be something like Book of Evil, which I did with Jock.

27:45
for comixology, because White Boat is more commercial, and is actually like, is a good seller. But like a book like After Death that I did with Jeff Lemire, right? Or a book like Book of Evil, they're mostly pros when they have spot illustrations. They're not gonna be for everybody, they're experiments. Like Barnstormers was an experiment. And you always try and be really honest with your fans and say like, look, this is what this book is. It's not gonna be for everybody, but I love it dearly, and this is why I love it.

28:14
and you go to the audience that you think will like it, and you don't try and oversell it. When it comes to something like this, you know, like Absolute Batman, that's carrying, it requires, you know, you going out there and being absolutely a juggling bear on a unicycle on every level across the comic space, because it's not just this book, it's this book as a bellwether for the whole thing, you know, that you're trying to say, I'm taking my best swing.

28:44
I'm out here talking about it and it is indicative of the kind of thing that everybody is trying on their own book in their own way across the line. So for me in that situation, that means like every sort of opportunity to get in the spotlight and talk not just about Absolute Batman, but all in, I'm gonna be out there doing it. So it is something like, I have not been on League of Comic Geeks talking about books before. I've been there like to use it for everything.

29:12
But I haven't actually engaged that same thing. Like I haven't done as many interviews. I haven't been to as many conventions. I haven't done as many signings, all of it for Absolute Batman. Not because I care more about that book than I do about other ones, but because that book, you know, that's the kind of book that supports that sort of promotion that you got, you know, it's about getting fans excited about not just this book, but about all of DC Comics at this moment. And trying to be really honest and be like, this is why I love this book. This is why I love the whole initiative. This is why.

29:42
I'm out here, crowing about it, go try it out. And put your money where your mouth is. I believe in the book and I believe in the initiative. Otherwise, I wouldn't be out there. I think it makes a world of difference to see you this upfront, everywhere that you're at promoting the book, but also promoting the other titles going on, whether that be Absolute Wonder Woman or Absolute Superman. I think there's definitely something

30:11
to be said about your knack of promo, but also putting the spotlight on your collaborators and your peers and colleagues. Thanks. And it got me thinking, like, man, this is a man, this is a guy that has been in comics since 2009, 2010, and has worked with so many different names, and you're probably friends and colleagues, and you've got so many peers and et cetera. And I'm just curious, who would you say really pushes you? Because you mentioned, you mentioned,

30:39
You mentioned earlier about like, you know, you were in this space, you were focusing on, uh, what did you say? Like building your own tree house, you know, doing the creator own stuff, which you were also still reading, like, you know, your Venoms, your mortal hoax. And it got me thinking like, who is Scott Snyder's competition? And I, and I don't mean that like, you know, with Venom, but I mean like who pushes you, like who do you look around to your left and right and you're like, okay, I want to, I want to be that, you know, I want to be on par with that. Like, well, what are some names?

31:09
Well, I mean, it's that's a great question. I don't, I don't think in those terms necessarily. Like I love being inspired by books. I don't. Greg Kapoor always teases me because I do this class, you know, through Substack. I've taught like my whole career and I love teaching and he's always like, you're teaching your replacement. I'm always like, not if I do it. Right. Because, you know, for me, if you're teaching people to

31:32
The way I run the class is always about like the golden rule is you've got to write this story that like you would love to pick up that day on the rack. And that means finding your voice, your story. So it's not teaching you to write like me, it's teaching you to write like you and just showing you all the craft tools like and that. And so when it comes to competition, I don't really think of it as like, I want to, I'll read something like that's totally different than what I do, right?

31:58
what Daniel Warren Johnson is doing with the moon is following us like right now, or what he did with do a power bomb, or what Patrick Horvath did with beneath the trees where nobody sees, or what Tom and Bruno were doing on Nightwing, or what, I mean there's so many examples, James Tynden and Martin Simmons on Department of Truth. I mean, just, there's so many good comics, you know, that what it does is I'll read it and be like, I want to be as good in my way as they are in their way.

32:28
and it inspires me not to try and do what they do, but to think of what is the thing that makes me scared and excited to go right. And the people that I keep around me, to be totally honest, Potter, is like those people. Like Jock is the one, I'll never forget. Like, you know, Jock was the first big star to ever take a chance on me with Black Mirror. And the reason he did it was he was like, you're going deep for this one, you know, about like things that I was worried about.

32:58
every project I do with him, like this one I'm doing right now for Distillery, like You Won't Feel a Thing. It's really personal. It's just about, it's not, you know, it's a book I called him and I'm like, I had this, again, not to get too on the couch, but like, this last summer was probably the worst of my life in terms of work. I'm doing this witches animation writers room and I love it. I love the show. I love the people in it. But the

33:27
season two writer's room, right on top of all the DC all in stuff. So I had scheduled it all out. So I'd have time to be with my kids and my wife over the summer. And because it all landed on top of each other, the summer was just like, I've never been as buried in work as I was this summer. And I just felt like I missed everything with my kids. And so when Distillery was like, what do you want to do for your next book? I came up with this idea about a guy who is a

33:56
He's sort of like an ex-federal agent and he's got early onset dementia. He's in his sixties and so he's sort of in an assisted living facility, too young. He's still, he's in his sixties, but you know, not old. And he's feeling really regretful because he had this very illustrious career catching criminals, you know, but he doesn't have a good family life. Like he's kind of foregone everything with his family over the years. And he starts to believe that

34:25
the killer that started his career might actually be from this town that he grew up in where he is in this assisted living facility and might still be here and active. And so he goes to try and solve this case that has sort of spanned his whole life and it's got a serial killer with a mask, with teeth in it and like, it's all kinds of horror. But at a core, what it's about is somebody who really worries that they spent time.

34:51
working on their career and they're still doing it at the expense, trying to get that one last case, like the one big Batman hit, right? At the expense of what really matters. And the people I keep around me, like Jock and Greg and Rafa and Francesco and Nick now, but my recurring collaborators really are the people that make you do that kind of work.

35:18
to hear that idea and say, do that thing. James Tynan, same thing, do the thing that scares you the most. My student, he used to be my student when he was an undergrad and now he's like my teacher, right? But it's like that feeling of, those are the people that I keep around me are the ones that are gonna be honest with me and criticize me and say, you need to do that thing that you're afraid of. Jeff Lemire, you know, those people really, and like the people I worked with at CommCelgy, Tula.

35:47
Lisa who's like a dear friend for many years, who's the first person, I mean with Thought Bubble, she runs the Thought Bubble content and invited me when I was just starting out. She was like, let's do a book where we jam on it and you give me your ideas and I give you mine and we'll make something that's just the two of us. And it was this wild experiment and it's one of my favorite books. But finding people that push you, that make you like.

36:13
make you scared about what you can do and bend the limits of what you think you're capable of. And those are the people I approach. So like Dennis Camp, for example, as somebody brand new, when I read 20th Century Men, I thought it was great and it was so daring. And then I read

36:39
They're people that I immediately like, I know it's corny, but like I'll write them and just DM them. I love your book. I thought it was great. It really made me want to write better, blah, blah, blah. You know, like sincerely. And then like, you know, I like surrounding myself with those people and then, you know, Dennis is doing a book for us in absolute. Now I've become friends with him. Ram has become like a someone I consider a close friend and his new God's book is going to kill it in DC All In. So.

37:05
I gravitate towards people that are gonna challenge me and make me wanna write better. It's why I became friends with Tom King. Initially when I read Vision, when he was still at Marvel I wrote him. Donny Cates when he did God Country I wrote him. Like I like that. Like I like reaching out to people that make, yeah I'm not threatened by it. I'm not, you know, at my moments. I mean everybody does. But I mean in general I'm not threatened by people coming up doing something that I'm really impressed with because I'm a deep believer in like.

37:35
There's no other me and there's no other them. It's more like them doing their thing makes me wanna do my thing harder. And that's, absolute Batman is me doing my thing as hard as I can, you know, every year. That is awesome to hear. Wander, it sounds like you read a lot of comics. Every comic you were listing off are like books that I revere, that I've probably had on my pull at some point or have been told how good they are. So that is incredible to hear that you are pretty up to date with like, you know, the comics zeitgeist and what's going on.

38:03
and that you're not afraid to like give props where it's due. It's something about knowing that these writers and these creatives that you admire as a fan and reader, I guess there's something to be said about knowing that they get along and they respect each other also as fans. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at is that it is awesome to hear that you are still a fan of comics, you know, after all the success and all the years of doing them. Well, I'm super hungry, dude. Like it's, it makes me young. Like I feel like teaching keeps me young. Like just reading young people's stuff coming in.

38:33
And not all of them are young. Some of them are starting when they're in their sixties or so. It's, but that hunger, like it keeps me hungry. You know, I love it. Like it makes me feel like, you know, I want to go like as teaching too, like it reconnects you with your priorities. Cause when I'm out there saying like, you've got to write the story that you'd love to find on the rack every day. I feel like a hypocrite if I don't go home and try and do that. And certainly like I have my moments when, you know, I get overwhelmed or family life is a lot and that, but.

39:01
you try and keep that front of mind and just be like, go read your favorite stuff, go talk to somebody that's going to keep you honest. Because at the end of the day, I know it sounds hokey, but I mean it sincerely like on my kids. This job, so few people get to do it. And it's what I wanted to do since I was like, five, six years old. And so to get to do it, you can never phone it in. You can never take it for granted.

39:31
There are a thousand people that want it and should have it. So you have to earn it every time you write an issue. It's the thing, I know I'm sure I have screwed up many, many issues and written bad things or things people don't like. But I go to sleep well at night knowing that I promise it's not for lack of trying. I have not let an issue that I have solo written out the door, that I have not tried to make the best thing I could. I'm not the best writer in the world. I have a lot of like.

40:00
you know, I'm sure I've not lived up to it sometimes, but it's not for lack of trying. And that's what allows me to be like, that didn't work, but you know what, I tried my best. And that, like knowing you tried your best, and I promise like I'm trying my best. Like I say that as a joke to people that come up and they're like, I like this, or they have a credit, or whatever they say at a con sometimes, I'll be like, you know, I'm trying my best. Like, I mean it. I mean it. Like Tyler will vouch for me. Like I spend way too long still

40:30
going over issues that's issue 34 of whatever, just because, not because it's an ego thing or because I'm so this or that, it's really out of, I promise, I don't wanna lose this job. I wanna be able to do this. I love doing this job. And I feel very, very lucky and grateful to get to wake up and go to my studio and make comics. So few people in life get to do the things they love.

40:58
I always am grateful to the fans. And the way that you're grateful is by always giving it your A game. What is it about the medium of comics that still makes you feel so strongly about it? Considering that, you know, you mentioned that you were working on the witches, the animated series, being in the writers' room. I'm sure that like you've dabbled in or even been offered to work on TV and movies. And I guess it's really refreshing to hear that, you know, your heart is, sounds like it's still 100% all in.

41:28
No pun intended. And the comic books, like what is it about the medium of comics that still, you know, drives you and still makes you such a fan? It's the collaborative aspect of it, 100%. And it's the community. I mean, you know, comics are the thing that I found when I was young that made me feel brave and like the face of all my anxieties and fears as a kid. You know, Batman was that character. Growing up in New York City, it was Dark Knight Returns and it was year one.

41:54
you know, X-Men helped me through all my teenage anxieties. So comics was always the place you went to sort of think you were escaping, but actually kind of face the things you were nervous about. But when I was in my 20s, I always wanted to be a comic artist, artist writer. I wanted to be like Mike Mignola and Frank Miller. And I went all the way through college thinking I would do that. And then I just wasn't good enough at art and I didn't know how to.

42:23
I couldn't find classes like in comic book art and I fell into, I love writing and I fell more into writing at that time. And so I started getting offers to do prose stuff and I was like, you know what? I love Stephen King, I love writing, sure. And so I fell more and more into that world. And so my start, I came into comics through prose, right? Had written a short story collection called Boudou Heart and it did pretty well for me. And then I got a novel. I sold, had a...

42:52
sort of I was working on a novel. And what happened was, I was working on this book. And it was essentially like it was it was some of the same material that's in Barnstormers not not exactly but it's of that time period. It was about it was about a guy who is trying to fly across the country in a plane very early on to win a prize by William Hearst. It's like based on a real incident. And I was writing it and it just it got

43:21
I got married and had this book deal and it was like, I didn't realize that all of the money for a book deal is really weighted on when they accept the finished book, not when you first get it. And so I was a kid, I mean, I was like 20, I was 25 or whatever. And what I also didn't realize was like, one of the fun things about writing prose was that when I did it and did that story collection, I was living in the city and I was surrounded by other writers who I had gone to school with, grad school with, where I met my wife.

43:51
And now we had moved out here where we didn't have any money and we were living in like a tiny condo and she was in school for medicine and I was alone all day working on this book. And I was just like, I hate this, this is horrible. Like I'm just working alone and there's nobody to show this to or talk to or anything. And it suddenly dawned on me that like I didn't enjoy prose and it was this horrible feeling of like, what have I done? And now if I don't turn in a good book.

44:20
I'll never get the money in this. And then the economy contracted, it was 2006, 2007. And so the random house was like, the book really has to, you know, it's gotta be something we really believe in for us to accept it at this point. And it was this miserable moment where I was just like, I was so depressed and like, what have I done with my life? And a buddy of mine,

44:45
did an anthology where he invited literary writers to make up new superheroes. It was kind of like a lark, just a fun anthology where you got paid like a hundred bucks. I was just like, I'll do that. I remember my wife being like, why are you doing this thing that doesn't pay any money? I was just like, I just want to write something for fun. I took it really seriously and I wrote a story called The Thirteenth Egg that was about a guy who's in the nuclear test in the 1950s and starts to develop powers and he becomes

45:14
good and bad. I loved it. I had such a blast. It was the most fun I had had writing in like two years because I'd been working on this book forever. It got into the book and then they did a release party for the book. At the release party, there was an editor for Marvel and an editor for DC. They came up to me and were like, we liked your story. Do you want to pitch? I was like, of course. Then I was pitching and I got a couple tiny gigs like Iron Man Noir and this. It was like a couple hundred.

45:45
The whole thing was barely any money. And again, my wife was like, why are you doing this? And I was just like, because it's making me so happy. And I remember her being like, you've been miserable for like two years plus, like let's take out a loan. You seem so happy doing this. Like, why don't you go back to Random House and just be like, this book isn't working for you. You guys don't wanna pay for it. Like you don't like it. You know, it's not gonna be a best seller the way you need in this economy.

46:10
let me go and I want to do this. And I was, I mean, I'll always be grateful to her. We took out this big loan and I went and, and just pitched American vampire hoping it would get through and it did. And so, you know, for me, I remember what it's like to have a job, not just like, I mean, I worked a lot of, I taught high school and I tutored, I did all kinds of, you know, like I worked work too. But I even remember what it's like to have like a job in the field. You think you like that was not

46:40
you hate going to work every day. And so I feel so lucky that I happened to get the chance to wander into this thing and get the job. And then I wandered in and they gave me detective comics out of nowhere. And I was like, oh my God. And so I've been so lucky. And so part of it might just be guilt where I feel like I'm paying it back to be like, I promise I will earn my place in this despite, but.

47:09
I know I'm giving you this insanely long answer, but what I'm trying to say is that I won't ever take it for granted. I feel so lucky to get to wake up and do this. And the thing that I love about it is that it's collaborative. Like, prose was lonely. And the minute I started working in comics, it's like, suddenly it's you and an artist and a colorist and a letterer and editor making something together that you believe in out of thin air.

47:36
And I didn't realize how much I love that because in prose, because it was me and my friends making stories together before suddenly it becomes a job and you're living alone and working alone. But comics is always you and your friends making stuff. Like, you know, these are my friends. Like Jock is one of my best friends in the world. Greg is one of my best friends in the world. Jane, like, you know, same. Like Nick has become one of my closest friends. And that you're just making shit with people that you love being like, it's you and me. Like we're just.

48:06
what are we doing like today? And there's just a joy to that, you know? And just, it's only something the two of you could make, whether it's Sean Murphy or Toulouse or what, it's just like, let's make something that only the two of us could do, you know? Or the three of us or four of us. And that's the beauty of comics is it's teamwork. And, you know, it's you creatively making something and trusting. It's a trust fall too, where you're like, okay, like, I'm gonna write this and then I don't know how it's gonna come out, but like,

48:36
I'm going to try and give you what you need to do your best stuff. You tell me how you like to work and whether it's full script or Marvel style and then I'll give you that and then you hand me back something and I'll do my best stuff on that. And you just keep going. It's trust fall, trust fall, trust fall. Fantastic answer. I wanted to say we can go down those rabbit holes. Absolutely. Because I think it's important to hear the story because you're a writer that injects a lot of his personal life.

49:05
And you've mentioned several times so far, like injecting the things that you're afraid of, like your personal, your anxieties and things like that into your stories. And I think it's a big reason why Court of Owls is one of my all time favorite Batman stories, because you can tell that you injected so much of your personal self and your personality into there. And I guess on the topic of fears and injecting your personal life into the story, I wanna get back to Absolute Batman, cause I understand that-

49:34
your approach for this version of Batman wasn't more so to tap into your personal fears and thoughts and things going on in your life. But I guess this Batman, the things that he's dealing with are more so representative of the things that you feel like your kids will be facing. The existential turmoil and the stuff going on in their lives and as they get older.

50:01
Could you speak a little more about that and get us, you know, put us into the psyche of this new Bruce Wayne? Like what are some of the things that he's going to have to overcome, the adversity and etc? Yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, like I said, I kind of wandered into DC and suddenly was like shot out of a cannon and onto into Gotham. And I really felt like, you know,

50:22
Working on Batman was the dream that maybe I would get to write a backup story after 10 years at DC. I didn't expect to be on Detective Comics like three months into my time at DC. My whole trip in Gotham was like a whirlwind of just white-knuckling it where it was like, I can't say no because it's my dream job, but I'm woefully unqualified for this. I'm just going to spend every waking minute trying to make this good.

50:49
It was crazy, it was a crazy first few years until it finally started to level out. But I really did just write about the things I was afraid of. So like, you know, a lot of it, when you look at it, when I look at it now, I worry it's very transparent, but like Black Mirror, it's like Dick Grayson becomes Batman and it's like, this is so fun and scary and amazing. And then Gotham transforms itself into being all of the things he's afraid of.

51:19
And so it was like, I'm the new Batman. I get to write Batman. I'm so excited and scared. And then all of a sudden, you know, here comes Gotham being like, you're not good enough. Let me show you why. And then, you know, writing Court of Owls, similar. It was like, okay, now I get to write Bruce Wayne. I'm just feeling confident. I've just come off of like this run that I did okay with with Jock and Francesco. And so Batman in that situation at the beginning of Court of Owls is like hyper confident. And then all of a sudden the history of Gotham

51:49
comes to life and is like, you're nothing. And that's how I felt writing Bruce because there's so many amazing stories in the history of Batman through Bruce Wayne. And then we were pregnant with our second kid with Emmett and death of the family is the Joker being like, you don't want a real family, you just want me. You just wanna, and it was a moment when I was like, like terrified that I cared more about my work than my kids. And so all of that is there. And then,

52:18
The only thing I never had on Batman was time. I had no break. It was every month for five to six years of just like, how do I make this issue stand up to the last issue? How do I make something that really is just the two of us doing the best thing we can? And it was very gut and instinctual all the time. And Greg is like a god at that. And so there wasn't time to like sit back and sort of

52:48
plan things at length and deliberate over things. And so with this run coming off of it, what I realized was I was always just writing my anxieties and fears and hopes into Batman. But now as a father and having purchased, my kids are older, they're teenagers, looking at them going out into the world, they're at the age where I really fell in love with Batman, 12, 13, I mean, I loved him before that,

53:18
you know what I'm saying? Like when I really took, Dark Knight came out when I was like, you know, 10. So it was that era of like 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 where I looked to comics to really inspire me. So it was like, well, what would Batman be if I wrote him for them as a proxy for them, the way I see them? And so it was like, well, I'd be Alfred, right? I'd be like the older guy coming in being like, oh my God, the world's like the world that we've

53:47
the world we've created for these kids, like I'm jaded, I'm compromised, I'm this. And then all of a sudden I see my kid, like my 17 year old and his friends, and they don't see it that way. They see it as like, look, I'm not gonna accept these, this kind of, I'm not gonna accept these kind of broken things you're handing me. I'm gonna make it better. I'm gonna fix it. I'm gonna, or I'm gonna break it more so I can build something else. And there's an idealism in all of it, in the protests and the feeling of like, I demand more.

54:17
you know, a fire to them. And it was like, what if Batman is that? What if he's young, but he's huge? What if he's like this beast who's just like a primal force in Gotham who will not compromise? And that's where it came from, was that feeling of like writing Batman with them in mind instead of me. What if Batman is not me or, you know, going up against my fears? What if instead he's designed to sort of be

54:46
make them brave and be, you know, them embodied. Like the things I see in them and I'm so inspired by. What if he's that? And I'm, you know, I'm no longer, he's not trying to make me brave anymore. Like this is written in a way where he is them and he is brave and I'm watching as Alfred learning from it. Being like, you know, and Alfred is jaded and he comes around. The whole first arc of the book, Batman is the star, don't get me wrong. Like Batman.

55:14
That man has a lot more screen time and a lot more amazing moments. But Alfred's arc is the arc of the first sort of section of the book where he's like, you know, trying to tell Bruce, it won't work to do what you're doing. Like you will hit a wall, you're up against too many resources. And Bruce is like, I just don't care. Like my bat is an ax and I'm gonna chop it down. So stay out of my way. You know, get in or get out. And he, you know, it's just that fun, you know, bat out of hell craziness that I just adore about.

55:44
this Batman. He's just so different than the Bruce I wrote before. It's funny because I was saying to Nick a couple days ago, he was asking me about some of my favorite things in our Batman run. Some of them are the things that everybody would cite as probably the scenes that they like. But anyone who likes our run, I mean. But there's also a couple of my favorite, my real favorites are like, there's a moment in Super Heavy where Bruce Wayne has had his memory wiped.

56:13
He's starting to realize he was Batman before and he doesn't know how to be him again. He sits down on a bench at a pond and the Joker who also is human and had his mind wiped and the thing sits down next to him. And the two of them have this conversation not knowing that he used to be Batman, he used to be the Joker, but it actually cuts to the core of who they are. And it's not some scene that people ever cite as like their favorite thing that we did. But to me, it's one of my like three favorite things because

56:41
It was about the mythology, it was very much like a deep, for me at least, like a kind of deep exploration of what these characters are. But it was done in a way I'd never seen. And those little moments when you can do something you haven't done, hasn't been done, but it's also trying to speak on what Batman means, those are the things that are magic. And the whole series feels that way to me with Nick, because it's just, everything is uncharted. When you start from that inversion,

57:10
and Batman no longer means the thing he meant, he's a different thing. But he's still Batman in true decor, he's still that core thing of trauma turned into empowerment. It's like, it all becomes like fresh and fun. So I wanted to shift gears to a couple of questions that I've received from some listeners of the short box. I'm talking diehard fans that were just as excited to know that you'd be on the podcast and they had some questions for you. So.

57:38
Let's start off with this question from Mac Jacobson, who is a proud member of the Short Box Patreon community. He writes, hey Scott, Mac Jacobson here. Firstly, I wanna say your run on New 52 Batman saved my life. I was going through a horrible time a few years back and was trying everything to get my mind off of all the terrible stuff going on, and I picked up your New 52 run in trades, and it absolutely helped me escape the harsh reality I was living in. It also reinvigorated my love for comics.

58:07
Whenever I had suicidal thoughts, I read your book. So thank you from the bottom of my heart. Now for the question, I've read pretty much everything you have written. Is there a character you would like to write, but haven't gotten the chance yet? Personally, I think you could do a killer daredevil run. Thanks again for your time. That was Mack Jacobson. Oh man, thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciate it and I hope you're doing well. Honestly, like to know that anything we did helped anyone through a tough time really means a lot.

58:37
Yeah, there's so many characters that I'd love to write. I mean, I'd love to write Spider-Man and Hulk. I'd love to write Daredevil. Daredevil feels like, again, he's very different than Batman from Bruce, because I feel like Bruce sort of starts from a place of confidence. He's very sure of himself, even though he has this trauma in his background. He's like, I can do it. And then you kind of push him down, and he gets a little

59:04
beaten up and then he's like, I can do it again. Like you come back, he comes back. Whereas Matt Murdock has that kind of Catholic guilt and the worry of like, should I be doing this? Am I good at this? Am I, and then he has the confidence. So I'd love to try a different take. He's almost a little more Dick Grayson than Bruce Wayne. So yeah, there's so many, Captain America is another one I'd love to write. Wonder Woman I'd love to write one day in a big way. I mean, yeah, it's, there's too many characters from Detective Champ all the way up to

59:34
you know, to Spidey and whatever that I would do. So there's so many. Is there any genre or archetype or, I mean, you don't have to get into specifics or calling out any character names, but is there anything that you tend to stay away because you're just like, eh, it's not my wheelhouse. I'm not, you know, it's not my strong suit. Like. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm not the best. I don't know why. Like I, I tend to veer away from comedy or romance or characters in that.

01:00:03
Not because I don't like, I love watching it or reading it. I'm just not, I don't know. I like, horror has always been my genre. And superhero stuff, I think, what I like about it is horror at core is like, you know, conflict, like writ large, because like if when it's done right, like the monster you're up against is like an extension of your worst fear, right? And so horror to me just kind of puts

01:00:31
like the thing you do in drama where it's all sublimated and subdued, like out there and exposes it. So it's like, this is the thing you're afraid of. Let's stop beating around the bush and it has fangs and it's trying to kill you. And superhero comics like usually gives that thing superpowers and it's coming after you. And so, you know, I gravitate towards those big epic kind of nonstop, very, you know, you're up against your thing you never want to look at, but now you have to fight.

01:01:01
And so I'm not, I just not, I've never really gravitated toward, Barnstormers weirdly was the first like romance kind of thing that I had done. So outside of that, I, yeah, I wanna try things like that I don't, I'm not good at, but, or I don't know how to do as well, but those are the genres I'm always, I'm always maybe least inclined to do, but part of the experiment was doing that with comixology, try things you haven't, right? So Dudley Dotson is like,

01:01:30
both a comedy and a YA kind of book with Jamal Eigel that I'm really proud of. And again, romance was, and historical fiction was barnstormers. So yeah, and so is the book I'm doing with my son, like By a Thread is YA. It's kind of more of an adventure book. It's a little more comedic and it's dark, but it's also, it's got like a, it's lighthearted in its own way. So yeah, trying to push yourself, but those are the things I'm not the best at. I'm not the most inclined towards, I guess. No, I appreciate the honesty.

01:01:59
Big shout out to Samak for sending in that question. The next question I got for you comes from a previous guest of the show. Had him back on in 2021, but I think there's a connection, a direct line to you because he was part of your inaugural comics writing class. This next question comes from Ben O'Grady. Ben O'Grady. Yes. Oh no, I remember. Yeah. Oh, okay, yeah. So Ben sent me a question for you and he wants to know.

01:02:27
You launched American Vampire of co-writer Stephen King. If you could pick another superstar writer to launch a new book with, who would it be? And you can't pick Stephen King again. Oh man, that's what I would probably have said with Stephen King. Who would I do it with if I could launch with another superstar writer?

01:02:47
That is tough. There are writers I'd love to work with in comics. I mean, I would love to work with Grant again. I had such a good time in the small amount we did together, Grant Morrison. I mean, I've always wanted to meet and talk to Alan Moore. I'd like learn at his feet. I feel like, you know, I don't know. There's so many writers I wish I had met. Or I wish, like the couple I met and I never got to know about like Denny O'Neill.

01:03:16
You know, or so the people that I can think of people like I would love to learn from. I'll tell you who writing wise, Chris Miller and what's the team at now? I'm blanking on the. His partner, I can't believe I'm forgetting. Phil Lord, Phil Lord and Chris Miller, who do so many great. Yeah, of course. Yeah. From Spider verse to cloudy with a chance of meatballs and clone high.

01:03:45
They're writers I would love to learn from. They're amazing. So I don't know, there's so many people out there I wish I could meet that just, you know, sort of that are inspiring to me. So yeah. The more I think about your story, which you've kind of admitted, like how quick the ball got rolling into your career. And I mean, you had a chance to work with Stephen King on your first foray into comics, which is insane. When you think back to that time, like what would you say is the most important lesson or-

01:04:12
biggest, most impactful lesson that you learned from Stephen King when it comes to writing. Did he ever drop any jewels on you or give you any advice that still sticks around or still sticks with you? Oh, yeah, man. I mean, he was amazing. He always like mess with you and joked around and was hilarious and wonderful. But I remember seeing him on a panel. He invited us to that he did for the New Yorker Festival and somebody asked him and Martin Amis. They were like...

01:04:41
How do you know when a story has sort of gone wrong? And he was like, you know it in your tummy. I was like, that's just, you just feel it in there. And it was just great. I mean, he's, and he was always just the small pieces of advice, like the way he acts, you know, like he invited my wife and me once to stop by. He was in Florida and we were driving by and he had heard we were driving to Florida.

01:05:08
was joking around with him and he was like, come by the house. And so we stayed, we came and visited him in Sarasota, um, where he had a house at that time. And, uh, you know, he made us spaghetti and was just like, move that piece of shit off the table. When we came over and it was the big manuscript for, uh, under the dome. Wow. And I was like, oh my God, this book is this new book. And just the way that he was so, um, humble and self

01:05:36
was a lesson in itself that way where he always, you know, sort of made fun of himself and was always made you feel at home knowing he was Stephen King, you know, so that too. Have you ever had a chance to meet his son, Joe Hill at all? Yeah, I have. Yeah, Joe's great. He's amazing. Yeah, he came to Jacksonville for a book fair and I had a chance to do the panel with him and then I had him on the show and it's awesome to hear that, you know, a lot of things that you're saying about Stephen King.

01:06:04
The same with Joe, like he's very self-deprecating, funny as hell, entertaining, super nice. So it's cool to know that Apple doesn't fall that far from the tree. Oh yeah, the whole family is fantastic. All right, so that was from Ben O'Gray. Big shout outs to Ben, appreciate the question. Thanks, Ben. I've got one last question that I am confident that this is coming from probably the biggest Batman fan out there, huge fan of yours. I mean, he owns a shop called Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. So as you can imagine.

01:06:34
He's been dying to send this in. This comes from Ben Kingsbury, who is the owner of Gotham City Limit, the sponsor of this year's show, great friend of the show, big Batman fan, as you can imagine. Instead of sending in a question, I mean, he's a sponsor, so he gets special treatment. He actually sends in a voicemail. So I'm going to play it. Oh, nice. Hey, Scott, Ben K, Gotham City Limit, Jacksonville, Florida here. Thanks so much for taking time to be here today. Let me start by saying.

01:07:01
I was on the Retailer Zoom meeting with DC when you spoke about DC's All In and Absolute Batman and the passion you had that day about the All In initiative and wanting to write your best story and wanting all the other writers to write their best story ever was inspiring and another awesome reminder of why we even have a local comic shop in the first place. So thank you. Now on to my question.

01:07:26
My personal favorite DC stories are the Elseworlds style stories and it looks like the Absolute series will continue on with more great storytelling. If you could take any character you've ever written from any publisher and give them the Absolute treatment, which way are you going? I'll leave you to answer. Thanks again and remember short box nation, they'll always take it to the limit. That's great. Yeah.

01:07:56
Oh man, if I could give anyone else the absolute treatment, probably Captain America. He's the character that I think about the most at Marvel. I have this like, I have a couple big stories in my head for him, but Ghost Rider maybe is the other one. I have like a whole idea for Ghost Rider. So those at Marvel, at DC, I feel like I'm just, I'm sort of too intimidated by how great the ideas are for Superman and Wonder Woman right now to even think in those terms, but.

01:08:25
Yeah, I just I'm gonna stick with Absolute Batman at DC. And that's it. But I really appreciate it. On the topic of that, in a semi almost not really related to wave almost shoehorned this in anyways. There was a screen rant. I think it was an article I want to make sure I get it right. I want to say it's screen rant. Yeah, it's screen rant. So I think last week screen rant put together an article and it was called 10 best DC comics by Scott Snyder to read before Absolute Batman.

01:08:55
Which to me is always a sign that, you know, like that thing is going to be big if they need to prep you for said release. And I think Absolute Batman warrants, maybe getting like, you know, into that head space and revisiting some of your, your other work. And Scott, I want to hear what would you add to this list that you feel maybe personally would kind of round it out, or you would also recommend like, hey, you know, to prep for Absolute Batman, even though it's a completely different thing, maybe just get you in the head space.

01:09:21
So among the list of 10 best DC comics by Scott Snyder to read before absolute Batman, they've got, and I don't know if it's any particular order, I just wrote it down as I seen it, but you've got All Star Batman, Batman Endgame, Batman Zero Year, Dark Knight's Medal, Dark Knight's Death Medal, The Batman Who Laughs, Death of the Family, Batman Last Night on Earth, The Black Mirror, and Court of Owls. Is anything missing for you personally?

01:09:49
That's a hard one. It's a pretty comprehensive list, I gotta say. Yeah, I mean, other than this, I mean, I think, I'm trying to think what they left off. Like, Gates of Gotham, I'm really proud of. That was the one that I wrote with Kyle Higgins that I really love. I think Super Heavy, again, is the one that I'm, I was citing that Joker Batman moment from that I had a blast with. And...

01:10:19
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that definitely, I don't know. I can't think of anything that I, trying to think of something that I'm missing that didn't make it on there. That's a lot of Batman, so. Yeah. You've written, I don't know, Scott, if you know this, but you've written a lot of Batman. I'll tell you a couple of shorts.

01:10:44
Yeah, the Joker's short that we did in the Joker 80th anniversary, I'm really proud of me and jock. It's a short piece, but it kind of gets to the heart of what I think the Joker is. And then also, I did a story in Batman Black and White with John Romita that I'm really proud of about the first photograph ever taken of Batman. That's kind of a small one. And then another short that I did in detect, I think it was in the Detective Comics anniversary, was with Sean Murphy. And it

01:11:14
It has the idea of the first idea that became last night on earth where it introduces the notion that our Batman and from Greg and my run would create a machine that would essentially make sure there was always a Batman throughout God for every every era of Gotham. And I'm really proud of that one. So those three little ones, those three ones, I would I would say maybe round it out for me a bit.

01:11:39
That's Sean Murphy one. I feel like you just unlocked the memory. That is a really good one. So when I read last night on Earth, I was like, oh, there's a really cool like similarity and parallel here. But you just brought up Sean Murphy, who, you know, is made a huge splash with, oh my God, I'm now drawing a blank. Dark Knight? No, not White Knight? Batman White Knight? Yeah, wait, White Knight. Yeah. White Knight. Thank you so much. And I'm curious to hear from you.

01:12:05
Which, you know, a lot of, you know, that's considered an Elseworlds story. What's your favorite version of Batman that isn't like the main continent? Do you have a favorite like Elseworlds Batman? Or variation? There's so many, yeah. I mean, I loved like Paul Pope's Batman year 100. Solid choice, yeah. I really like, I really like Batman Beyond. It's like one of my absolute favorite takes on Batman forever. There's so many. I mean, I like what's happening in,

01:12:34
Dark Knights of Steel. I mean, I'm always up for a alternate Batman take. I love Gotham by Gaslight. You know, I have Houda's like Mike Minnola, you know. Yeah, there's so many. But year 100 is one of my like hidden gem favorites. Yeah, I don't think that one gets enough credit and which is sometimes a shame because it's like that's Paul Pope, you know, doing all tour Paul Pope doing the damn thing. Absolutely.

01:13:00
Now I want to get back really quick to that, that that comixology thing I was saying, and I wanted to give you props on that deal. Not only was it like one, it was like, Whoa, wait a minute, Scott Snyder is not just doing, you know, one, he's doing a comixology thing, but he's not doing just like one book, he's doing eight books, and it's going to be digital first, and then we're going to get the print versions via Dark Horse. And coming out of that experience has your perspective on digital comics change? Did you learn anything new? Are you

01:13:28
going to be doing more like digital first or digital only comics? Yeah, I mean, it was a really interesting experience. I still believe that. I believed it like wholeheartedly going into it. And I still do that. What you know, American comics could really use is digital brows ability for especially for young readers, because the price point with print is just it's too high for and it's nobody's fault. It's just printing costs, shipping costs, all these things have ballooned after especially after COVID. So

01:13:57
in a really boring, you know, sort of factoid way, comics are just too expensive for reasons that again, aren't sexy or salacious or anything. It's just, you know, the manufacturing and shipping and printing of all of it of comics. And so for me, I believe like my kids, the reason, one of the reasons that manga and other things are becoming so popular is because they're really accessible. Like they're accessible when they're a full volume and you start from the beginning and it's easy, but also they all provide very cheap,

01:14:26
browseability digitally through Crunchyroll or Shounen Jump or any of that stuff. I was very excited by the idea of Comixology as a multi-publisher platform that had a wide, a huge library of comics that you can browse for just a subscription price. For the price of one comic a month or whatever it is, you could literally browse Dark Knight Returns to some comics that are brand new and all this kind of stuff.

01:14:55
And I believe in that. I think that during my time at Comixology, it contracted under Amazon. It was a shame to see, but forces that are again, just way bigger than anything that has anything to do with comics or Comixology. It's more just like when Amazon, as a multinational giant global corporation feels like they need to tighten their belt, you never know what's going to happen with these different places. So.

01:15:22
I think the hard thing was seeing so many people that I thought were real died in the wool, love of comics people have to look for other places to work. But that said, like the people that are left at Comixology are still really diehard comic people and they're starting to expand again. And I would encourage everybody to support them. And I still love them and would do books for them. But my hope is that whether they expand again under Kindle or that kind of thing, or another company comes along or Marvel and

01:15:51
DC and image form some kind of thing with other companies that there is some large bridge that allows for digital access to a giant library of comics for kids coming in, hoping to explore and fall in love with the medium. I really appreciate you saying that. I've always felt that digital comics could benefit from having more creators of your caliber pushing forward and wanting to see changes.

01:16:19
different things implemented, because I want to echo once again what you had said in that article that digital and print don't necessarily have to compete at all. Yeah, they don't. They're symbiotic, honestly, in my opinion. Agreed. All right, Scott, as we start wrapping up this great interview, I want to give you one more chance to talk about Absolute Batman. I guess I want to give you kind of free rein here, because at this point, you have done a lot of press for the Absolute.

01:16:46
Universe, Absolute Batman, All In. Is there any topic when it comes to any of those or a question that you haven't been asked that you personally have wanted to maybe like talk about or give an answer to? Like is there anything that someone hasn't asked you about Absolute Batman or DC All In at this point? No, I mean, I don't think so. I mean, I feel like I really got to cover it here. I honestly like, I'm just so excited that people seem to be.

01:17:15
as enthusiastic as we are about all these things. I really feel lucky and grateful. I'm just excited to see people go into shops. All In was designed around three things. It's all in the books, meaning every story is going to be a jumping on point. Every book should be welcoming to you. We're all in as a company. We're all out there supporting each other. We're giving it our best, all of it. Then it's all in the stores.

01:17:45
So there's Justice League cards to give out in every store in America where if you buy three or four DC comics starting tomorrow, or starting Wednesday, October 2nd, you'll get, they'll give you for free a Justice League card of a different character each week. And we reduce the, you know, we try to keep the price points low on these books, like even if they're oversized, all that stuff to try and be like, what can we do to make the store experience fun? And...

01:18:14
How do we also make sure that there's offerings every single week for five, six, seven weeks that start new stories over and over again so that people won't get into this monthly buying habit. Instead, they'll be in, you know, go into a store and celebrate comics week after week. So I'm really proud of what it is and I feel like I've gotten a chance to really promote it. So I'm grateful. Hell yeah. Well, I want to say the incenses are a great idea.

01:18:42
It is refreshing to know that, you know, as a weekly Wednesday warrior, that you guys are looking out for my pocketbook. So thank you for looking out for my wallet. Ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast, and we just finished talking with Scott Snyder about his newest comic, Absolute Batman, which is in shops right now. As you're listening to this episode, hopefully, look, hopefully you're on your way back home to open up the book and you're hype about reading it, but Absolute Batman is in shops right now.

01:19:10
Absolute Wonder Woman comes out October 23rd followed up, last but not least, by Absolute Superman, which comes out November 6th. And obviously there'll be a lot more titles coming out from DC All In and Absolute. As you heard Scott say, the company is all in, the creators are all in, why not get all in yourself? Check it out. And Scott, I wanna say thanks again for hopping on the show. You've been great and anytime you wanna come back on for any new projects, man, the door is open for you. This was fantastic. Oh, I'd love that, man. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

01:19:43
There you have it short box nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you wanna share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.

01:20:10
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01:20:37
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01:21:07
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01:21:35
and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.