Talking Astrobots, Transformers, and Marvel UK with writer Simon Furman - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 440

00:00
In this episode of The Short Box. You know, it's funny, I don't really think of them as robots. You know, that was the thing with Transformers back in the day. I never approached my storytelling or my script writing or my dialogue for the robots in any different way to the fact that these are just human characters. Again, Bob Wodeganski came up with these amazing character bios that had

00:28
their weaknesses, their strengths, their beliefs almost. And so I just thought, well, these are human characters he's talking about with, you know, flaws and vulnerabilities and dreams. And, you know, why should I even think of them as robots? And certainly as astrobots, they always say the best characters have some kind of little relevance, little sort of, you know, oh, yeah, I get that. I felt that I've wanted that, you know, that it has to have that kind of.

00:58
touchstone where people go, yes, I get that.

01:03
intro music plays

01:33
Yo, Short Box Nation. Hello again, welcome back, and thanks for pressing play today. If you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. This is episode 440, and it's brought to you by two amazing supporters that make this entire show possible. The first shout out goes to the Short Box Elite.

02:00
AKA the fans and supporters who make up our humble but mighty Patreon community. If you like the podcast and if you want to support the show in a more direct way, consider joining the other fans and listeners over on our membership platform at patreon.com slash the short box. You can support the show and help me keep the lights on for as little as a dollar a month. Every dollar counts when it comes to maintaining and growing a podcast like this one. Some perks for supporting the show include access to a bunch of bonus episodes to listen to.

02:29
like me and Drew's spin-off podcast called Save It For The Pod. As a Patreon member, you also get early access to all episodes, ad-free listening, and, depending on the tier that you sign up, free comics and short box merch. Once again, support the show and get perks as easy as that. Go to patreon.com slash the short box. One more time for the folks in the back, patreon.com slash the short box. And last but not least, the short box is also powered by Gotham City Limit, Jack Sevel's

02:59
If you live in Jacksonville, Florida, I advise you to go visit the shop for yourself on Southside Boulevard right next to Tencel Town Movie Theater. Go to Gotham City Limit, tell them Bada from the short box sent you, and get hooked up with some killer deals on stuff. Speaking of toys in Gotham City Limit, Gotham City Limit currently has these Super 7 Transformers figures, specifically this 7-inch Megatron VHS Deluxe figure that I've been eyeing now for like two weeks.

03:27
So if you're looking to add me to your Christmas list or if you're trying to brainstorm, what do I get? Bodder? Well, there you go, all right? The Megatron VHS Deluxe figure is so bad-ass. And whether you know it or not, that very shameless and crude plug about that Megatron figure kind of ties into today's episode because today's guest knows quite a bit about the Transformers. You can say that he's kind of built them up from the ground up, as well as...

03:55
broken a few of them, and even killed quite a few of them in the pages of the Transformer comics. Today I'm joined by Simon Furman. He's a British comic writer best known for writing what is regarded as the most important collection of Transformer comics and related Transformers fiction ever. He's literally penned hundreds, if not maybe thousands, of Transformer comics for almost every publisher that has ever held the license, from Marvel to Dreamwave and IDW and a whole lot more.

04:23
Simon Furman was also instrumental in making Marvel UK a huge success in the 80s. During the 80s and 90s, he worked on many titles for them, including the aforementioned Transformer, he also wrote Action Force, Thunder Cats, Doctor Who Magazine, as well as two stories he helped create himself, Dragon's Claw and Death's Head. More recently, he has written the Ashrobots series for Massive Publishing. The series is drawn by heavy metal artist Hector Krennic and is based on a group of sophisticated machine life forms called Ashrobots.

04:52
or dispatch to scout far-flung worlds in the hope of crafting a new home for humans. The series is based on a mech-inspired toy line designed by toy designer and the comic series co-creator, Aaron Thomas. Astrobots Volume One collects the first five issues of the series and is available right now through Amazon, comic shops, and wherever else you get your comics. And is exactly what fans of giant robots and sci-fi need in their lives right now. Simon Furman is on the podcast today via the web, all the way from the UK.

05:21
to talk about astrobots, giant robots, writing comics, and wherever else the conversation takes us. So without further ado, Short Box Nation, let's welcome Simon Furman to the show. Simon, welcome to the Short Box. How are you doing today? I'm doing very well. Thank you for having me on, Barda. It's great to be here and very exciting that the first Astrobot series is coming out in trade paperback now. Yeah. I.

05:48
I told you before we hit started that I am currently halfway through it and enjoying every single issue. And I'm kind of beating myself up for waiting this long to get on the Astrobots train. I remember seeing the previews catalog when Astrobots was announced in the previews catalog and the Apollo figure. So the action figure based on the the titular or the main character of Astrobots was in this previews and I was smitten. I'm a toy guy. I find I don't need money.

06:15
reasons or excuses to spend my money on toys. Sometimes I spend more money on toys and comics, but I ended up buying the Apollo action figure when it was announced. I picked up Astrobots issue one, but I think I waited until trade obviously, and I've been enjoying it, man. How's the, I guess now that it's been collected, all five issues are out and done. How has the reception been to Astrobots for you? Especially considering your name and the weight that your name holds among the.

06:41
Transformers fans, the mech fans, the giant robot fans, how has the reception been for Astrobots? Yeah, it's been really good. I mean, obviously Transformers fans tend to be Transformers fans and focus a lot on that, but we've had some really good feedback on Astrobots. It's, you know, even though it's mecha, it's robots, it's quite a different beast to Transformers. It's a little more, I suppose, sophisticated sci-fi, a little more political and...

07:10
You know, there's it's not just all out action, action, action. There's a lot of intrigue and, you know, different factions vying for control of this sort of colony world. So, you know, we wanted to build something, you know, I came into Transformers 40 years ago now, right, almost right at the start, but Bob Budiansky and Jim Shooter laid down a lot of the groundwork for that. And I came in and sort of added extra layers down the line.

07:40
But with Astrobots, it was great because I just worked with Aaron to develop what were, what were, you know, a fairly limited line of, of these incredibly sophisticated toys, you know, they're articulated to the hilt and really amazing. And, you know, he just came to me, I suppose, because of my work on Transformers and said, can you help us build the backstory? You know, what are these Astrobots? What?

08:09
is the storyline. Why is this character Apollo here and this character Atlas there? It was great to come in at that ground level and build up from there. Instead of coming into something part-formed, this was me and Aaron really starting from the building blocks and starting with something that we thought, well, in subsequent series, we will just expand this.

08:36
out further and further. It's evolved really as we've gone along. Hearing you say sophisticated, I think that is a proper word for astrobots. That's the vibe I'm working my way through the first volume. We're dealing with political factions, conversations about ideology, trust and suppressing the truth. It is a very sophisticated, to use your own word, sophisticated comic book.

09:05
that I think if you're just looking at the covers, might deceive you in a good way. I'm surprised by how much ideology and conversation is taking place among this on top of the action. You mentioned getting this series pitched to you by Aaron having you come in. Do you prefer that approach? How do you get into the mindset of coming into someone else's sandbox and filling in the blanks? Well, I kind of like both approaches.

09:35
a lot of fun working on existing license properties, many, many different properties. And it's always great fun to get to grips with these characters, add layers to the characters, to the storyline, to the backstory. But I also really like world building. I really, that, you know, that is possibly my favourite bit of storytelling. It's starting from with a blank canvas and just building a whole world with motivations. You know, I...

10:04
I honestly hate cookie cutter sort of bad guys who are just, you know, they're villainous, you know, in astrobots, there are, it's very hard to define good or bad. Yeah. These are just people with different agendas, different methodology, different belief systems. And I think with astrobots, we really wanted to kind of put big issues in there that, you know, fundamentally these people disagree on, but it doesn't necessarily make them wrong.

10:33
bad or deranged or anything. They just see things in a completely different way. So it was quite refreshing to come at it. You look at Transformers storytelling these days, it's much more layered, much more shaded with grey areas between the good and the bad. But I think with Astrobots, we just started at that point. We said, let's...

10:59
give people action, give people a sort of fairly epic storyline, but also build in some bigger issues, some sort of things that have relevance outside of Astrobots that we're discussing in the course of a narrative. So hopefully it's thought provoking, it's slightly challenging. And like I said, it doesn't really pick a side. It just said, these are the different viewpoints here.

11:29
and you can understand how ideologies just split and noble aims, astrobots at its heart are their space-faring robots who go out to find colony worlds for the overcrowded planet we live on now or in the future. So really, their existence is to serve humankind, but that prime directive, if you like, slightly gets warped and their way of

11:58
deciding how to serve humankind best, starts to sort of go off at tangents. And that's really the sort of crux of the sort of storyline is, you know, you set something up, but once free will and individual thought comes into it, it can go in very different directions. And so, you know, we're playing around with, hopefully some big issues that take away the sci-fi setting and the big mechs.

12:26
people will recognize as concerns going on in the world today and in the future world. It's very much looking forward to how things could go from bad to worse in some cases. Yeah, it feels very high brow without the stuffiness that comes from saying that. I get a lot of Star Wars, Dune, but also Greek and Roman mythology, biblical stories. You were able to pull a lot of...

12:55
This is like a blender of some of the best that sci-fi has to offer. I guess to ask it directly, what were you pulling from or inspired by, along with Aaron and Hector, when it came to building the story for this? What were some of the things I mentioned, maybe influences at all, or maybe some other things? Yeah, I mean, I think some of the influences looking ahead to things you can almost see on the horizon. Astrobots is fairly near future. Things have moved on a lot.

13:25
but we're not setting it in some impossibly vast distance ahead in time. These are things that cumulatively we can see happening now. But then, yes, the bigger storylines, the character storylines, we looked at the classic... I mean, there are archetypal stories that are reworked and put into different contexts. And we looked at some of those, the hero's journey, the sort of...

13:54
just the difference how a single idea can split off into different people's interpretations of that. So I think we wanted to make it action-packed and there's a lot going on and there's some very exciting action sequences, but we just wanted to make people aware that there's a backstory behind the action that...

14:21
afterwards, you can kind of, oh, wait a second, I see there, that's what they're sort of paralleling or that's what they're trying to reference from my experience of the world today. Can I also say, I think what makes Ashrobot stand out? I think having the art be so crisp, so airy, so detailed by Hector Trunick, I think helps sets it apart just visually on a comic book stand. The character designs are

14:49
amazing. Not only are they amazing, but they're rendered so well by Hector. They're almost like realistic. It's almost got like a heavy metal painted kind of flair to it. Can you talk about working with Hector and what your working relationship with him was and designing the characters along with Aaron Thomas? I would say a lot of the character designs stem from Aaron. He works in computer modeling to create these...

15:16
characters in three dimensions, so they can be these incredibly articulated toys. But what Hector, I think, brings to the mix is that sort of I don't want to say mature readers because it's not mature readers, but that kind of slightly adult sensibility about the sci fi art and, you know, that comes from, I mean, I think he's done a lot of work before on Heavy Metal magazine and that sort of European, French.

15:44
Italian style of comic book storytelling. I think you can see in Hector's art, and it looks a lot more that kind of, you know, an adult version, a vision if you like, of what a sci-fi series should be. And I think it draws from those European sources. And, but Hector's, you know, got this lovely polish to everything. And as you say, there's a certain, you know,

16:11
effortlessness about it, the way the characters move, the way they interact with the environment. There's almost a Wild West feel sometimes to the art. When Apollo first appears out of the dust, it sets a mood and a theme that it's almost like it has tones of a sci-fi western going on. It's brain-chart.

16:39
who sort of wanders into town, into a situation that is already a sort of powder keg. And he is the thing that sets it off on different paths, good and bad. So, you know, I think his moody art really helped set that sort of tone. And we've stayed with that. Yeah. Well said. Actually the first page that first introduces Apollo, where you see him like walking from the dead zone.

17:07
into Atlas City. Actually, that was a page that I screen grabbed on my iPad. I'm reading it digital. But that page was like a knockout punch right there. Yeah, Hector is now on. He wasn't on my radar prior to this, but he's absolutely on my radar now. Because just the way his compositions, his panel layouts, yeah, his art is just, you can't stop looking at it. And I'm telling the world that you guys have created, there's a mood to it. It's easy to kind of get drawn into it. We're talking about astrobots.

17:37
volume one, which collects the first five issues. Those first five issues came out May of last year through September. We're getting the trade now, so about a year afterwards. Is there any plans to continue the Ash Robot story? Are we going to see more issues of volume two? Completely. The second arc is drawn. So we have arc two ready to go. I think Massive want the trade of one to come out first and then start releasing.

18:06
series two or arc two. And at the moment, I am working on scripts for arc four. So, you know, we're quite a way ahead. And, you know, already what started off in a fairly sort of tight focus has grown and grown over those next four story arcs to include, you know, more of the politics, more of the world, a whole other city that we come across, you know, so we're definitely expanding out.

18:36
in every arc in a big way to give more and more depth to this world we're creating. Now Simon, you are, as I said in the intro, you are the man when it comes to Transformers comics and fiction. You're building this new world and astrobots. How tech savvy are you? Like, are you good with electronics? Are you good with like a computer? I mean... I would have to say I'm pretty terrible at that stuff. You just know how to write them. But I read a lot.

19:03
Yeah, I read a lot of stuff, you know, sort of science based, just so that when I'm dealing with sort of science fiction concepts, it's rooted in something, you know, just looking at what, you know, amazing things are happening in the world of science and space exploration and, you know, just the understanding of the planet itself. You know, I just keep up to date on all sorts of things.

19:31
because it always feels better if you draw sci-fi concepts from something, like I say, slightly recognizable, slightly. Yes, I understand where that's coming from rather than try and create, you know, nothing from nothing. You're, you're just taking something now and moving it on a few decades or a hundred years or something, that idea. So yeah, I, I even though probably I'm technically terrible, I do read an awful lot of, of.

20:01
real science and just so that I can say, okay, look, that's an amazing concept. It's theoretical now, but why don't I take, you know, there's nothing to stop me as a creator taking that theory and turning it into future reality. So yeah, I'm trying to make sure that, you know, if I talk about the universe, it's part of, you know, proper astrophysics that I, you know, I've got a very good book called The Elegant Universe, which

20:30
sort of makes sort of the physics of the solar system understandable and graspable. And so I draw lots of stuff from that. I don't want to sort of have somebody come on and say, oh, wait a second, that's just crazy, is future science. I like real science taken to a next level or two. Have you ever been approached by someone at a convention?

20:59
Whether that be a fan, a reader, a fellow colleague, et cetera, that maybe has either corrected you or maybe put you onto something related to sci-fi. Yeah, I think so. There are concepts in my work that I've drawn. I'm an unashamed fan of a 70s movie called Rollerball, which was a James Kahn movie, Future Sport.

21:28
there was a sort of underlying idea in that of war, of violent sport as a sort of, you know, cure all for wars that that would take the aggression out of the population. And so, you know, I've drawn inspiration from things myself. And yes, people suggest things, people see things in my work that even I don't see in it. And, you know, think, say, say, oh, well, look, you know, that's so like this. And I think, well, I've never read or seen that but

21:56
great, I'm going to have a look at that now. So, so yeah, people do. And people come up and, you know, especially with in the world of transformers, you know, the fans are very, very immersed in it. So you have to be pretty sure when you're writing and creating that you're not flying in the face of established law, if you like, so that, you know, you won't get people at conventions saying, but hang on, you can't say do that because of this. So.

22:25
Yeah, I'm very, very conscious that especially these days, feedback is so immediate and comprehensive and passionate that you have to be right on the money with everything. What do you think stories about that are centered on giant robots, mechs, characters like Apollo and astrobots or Optimus Prime and Transformers, in your words, what can they tell us about ourselves, our society, the world we live in?

22:54
What draws you to continue writing about giant robots and characters like this? It's funny, I don't really think of them as robots. That was the thing with Transformers back in the day. I never approached my storytelling or my scriptwriting or my dialogue for the robots in any different way to the fact that these are just human characters. Again, Bob Wodianski came up with these amazing character bios.

23:24
that had their weaknesses, their strengths, their beliefs almost. And so I just thought, well, these are human characters he's talking about with, you know, flaws and vulnerabilities and dreams. And, you know, why should I even think of them as robots? And certainly as astrobots, even though, you know, there are human colonists and the astrobots, I don't approach the characters in any different way, only in their, the perception of themselves.

23:53
So if the astrobots were created to serve humans, okay, that's an interesting idea, but they've evolved. So suddenly there's a whole different perspective from their angle. So I don't really think of them in a robotic way. I think it just sort of, it makes them slightly remote from reader experience. They always say the best characters have some kind of little relevance, little sort of, you know,

24:22
Oh, yeah, I get that. I felt that I've wanted that, you know, that it has to have that kind of touchstone where people go, Yes, I get that. You know, you make it too alien, too robotic, and people can lose interest, but you make it human, you know, desires needs, you draw your audience in. So, you know, I try not to think of them as robots at all. Now, Simon, if you had to make a Mount Rushmore.

24:51
of your all time favorite robots, mechs, androids, whatever that may be, who would be on your Mount Rushmore of characters within pop culture, sci-fi that happen to be robots that you feel are kind of are elevated, that kind of fit what you just spoke where they're more human, they've got emotions and backstories and gripping tales. Like who's on your Mount Rushmore of all time, best pop culture sci-fi robots and such?

25:20
Well, sure. I mean, you know, straight away, I'd say, you know, the Terminator franchise was very influential to me. And, you know, and, you know, in the kind of the mid ground. So the idea of RoboCop was very, you know, sort of inspiring back in the day. You know, I just thought that idea of, you know, and it has definite sort of vibes with Astrobots, that this is a character who is part roboticized.

25:50
stripped away. So, you know, his struggle, Murphy's struggle in RoboCop, I thought was the perfect kind of that lovely arc, you know, that you always want for your characters. So, you know, these are some of the you know, there are there are classic sci fi robots that, you know, really sort of inspired me like, you know, the, the robot from the day the earth stood still forbidden planet, you know, but, you know, I think these days,

26:17
I try not to be too, especially with the robots, I try not to be too influenced by the pop culture robots that I employ because otherwise you do start to unconsciously or otherwise channel certain traditions, I suppose, from those. So I try to be inspired by the level of invention in these characters, but not sort of take that on into my own work. If you had to maybe think of one,

26:47
robot within pop culture in the last couple of years that you feel has really pushed the boundaries of, you know, a robot as a character or as a storytelling vehicle that has maybe reinvented or put, like I said, pushed the boundaries. Who comes to mind? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's some amazing stuff now with sort of, you know, robot characters. I mean, I still think, you know, Blade Runner is one of my all time favorite films, you know, the idea of the replicants.

27:16
That's something I found very inspirational and that also is very relatable as a thing. I really enjoyed the recent I, Robot that they did with the Will Smith film. It's hard to pin down one really, but I suppose they're the standouts for me, the Terminators. I read all of the Asimov stories.

27:46
I love the idea of laws of robotics, that they were in those book original stories. So yeah, you know, sort of the iRobot was a big one for me. You know, yeah, hard to pin down sort of other specifics. But yeah, you know, some of those classic 80s ones Terminator and so forth. Big big influence. Oh, yeah, iRobot. I watch it every chance I get. It comes on TV. I feel like.

28:11
every other month and I still, you know, I'll watch it. I know the lines by heart by now. That's a damn good pic. I want to turn the corner here. And prior to us hitting record, I told you that I have been, and some interesting rabbit holes. I've been in this like weird Mega Man history lore rabbit hole. So I've got, you know, the robots on the mind, the pop culture, androids and such. But I've also been reading Grant Morrison's Super Gods book. And I'm absolutely.

28:39
just fully immersed in this book, in this world, in the history of, you know, Grant Morrison's career, but also like Marvel UK and in the comic book scene in the UK. I had mentioned, you know, you're calling in from the UK. I would love to hear when you think back about like your first conscious exposure to comic books growing up in the UK, like what comes to mind? Like, do you recall the first comic book you ever got or maybe the one that got you to be a lifelong fan? What was that book?

29:09
Yeah, there's a few stages with Mike. I mean, as a kid, I devoured comics in a big way, but they were mostly the British comics that were being produced over here. And those were mostly black and white. They mostly had a couple of pages, three pages of different stories in each. But it was probably the Marvel comics that were reprinted, the early Spider-Mans and Fantastic Fours that really, I think, caught my imagination and made me sort of...

29:39
aware of comics more than just a sort of disposable medium. That was my first sort of collecting thing really with comics, those early Marvel UK reprints. So that was that stage. But then when I came back into comics, it was the work of creators like Alan Moore and Chris Claremont that I really sort of was blown away by in a...

30:08
with a different take on it. I was looking at the craft behind it and, you know, with Claremont, how he would weave an amazing number of back story and plots bubbling under while the A story was running. So, you know, I loved how he juggled multiple characters and Alan Moore was amazingly good with, you know, sort of dialogue versus what's your...

30:36
what you're seeing as the art, he could weave them together really expertly. So yeah, I sort of learned a lot from those, those, those particular sort of chunks of my comic early comic career. You know, right now my eBay cart, I have a few issues of the, what was it called? The mighty, the mighty world of Marvel. You got a couple of issues of the dare doubles.

31:04
And Spider-Man and the Zoids, which to the listeners, if you're not familiar, these are all UK Marvel anthology comics that were reprinting Marvel comics from the US. They were, I think, behind a couple of years. I've just been kind of enthralled with the comic scene in the UK, specifically Marvel's influence and Marvel UK. So like I told you, this interview kind of comes at a serendipitous time.

31:33
I guess to fast forward, you mentioned your early exposure to comic books. Where was the switch where you started working in comics? Because I've got you clocked at joining Marvel UK to write the Transformers series of issue 96, which would have been January 1987. Did you do any comic work prior to that? Or what was your first professional work in comics? Well, my first professional work was for a company called IPC magazines, who

32:02
a lot of British comics like 2008, I worked for them sort of behind the scenes as on the editorial side. And then I worked on a little horror comic, you know, a horror comic, creepy comic for kids called Scream. And that was where I got my first chance to do some writing. You know, often I was deadline, sort of pinch hitting, you know, sort of coming in to, you know,

32:29
do a little episode of that or a one-off story. And that went only for about 15 issues, that series. But thereafter, and we're still back in 84 here, 85, I went with the editor of Scream over to Marvel UK. So I was working on staff there. I started writing Transformers and a whole bunch of other stuff. As you said, Dragon's Claws, Death's Head.

32:58
Action Force, Doctor Who, many, many things for them. And then from that, I made the jump to Marvel US on things like Alpha Flight, RoboCop, She-Hulk, What If? I did a whole bunch of stuff for Marvel US. So it was definitely that route through IPC magazines and then Marvel UK, Marvel US were the kind of steps.

33:25
Now, was the goal for you always to be a comic book writer? Was that something that you aspired to be? Or did you want to write other things? I guess, like, was the goal to always be a comic writer? I think after a certain point, it was. Once I realized it was a feasible thing. But it took me quite a while to go full freelance. It wasn't until 89, I think, I finally sort of bit the bullet and said, OK, now I'm a freelance.

33:52
writer. I was on staff at Marvel UK up to that point. That was a big step for me to say, okay, now I consider myself a freelance creative. Yeah, from there, it was pretty much ever since. I have worked as a freelance for a good number of different companies. It became a career at that point, I think. I think it's safe to say that the

34:21
American Marvel bullpen was just as much a character as any other character from the Marvel Universe you know Stan Lee made it a mission to Have the creators kind of be front and center in the comic books and that ethos carried on throughout the years of making the Marvel bullpen whether that be through comic strips or articles and newsletters and letter pages a prominent part of the Marvel experience

34:51
Can the same be said about the Marvel UK bullpen? Like, what was the atmosphere there when you think back about working, whether that be atmosphere, work culture, et cetera, what was the Marvel UK bullpen like for those of us that aren't familiar with it? Yeah, it was on a smaller scale, of course, but it was still very much creative. We had artists, writers coming into the office all the time. And there was, yes, there was a...

35:20
a sort of lovely sense of sort of anarchy, I suppose, about those times. You know, it was sort of, everybody was pulling together. Everyone had that same love of comics, passion for comics. And I think that came across in some of the things we produced as Marvel UK, because we were starting from the basis, like a lot of comic creators, of being fans first. And, you know, it's like, well, I think I understood.

35:49
the kind of comics I wanted to read that I just decided, well, those are the comics I'm going to write. I'm just going to write from that standpoint that if I want to read this, hopefully other people will as well. And so, yeah, it was a very sort of creative, you know, wing and a prayer kind of time. But yeah, it was it was a great way to learn. And, you know, it's it's put me in very good stead. You know, sometimes we have to do things.

36:19
very fast or on a deadline or in a limited number of pages. And I think it's given me that skill, I guess, of being able to do comics in a very economic way. That if I've only got six pages, I'll still find a way to tell a whole story that so somebody won't feel, well, that's only one bit of a story. Just to make sure Marvel US, we were visited by a

36:48
first Jim Shooter and then Tom DeFalco. And Tom, I think particularly said, you've got to remember, we always look at it as if every comic book we produce is someone's first. They've just picked that up off the rack. So you've got to make it as entry level as possible. Don't put them off. Don't make them think they're coming in in the middle of something. Recap Spidey's origin in a few panels or something. Just...

37:18
bring the reader in. I think that I've always done. When we get to Astrobots Arc 2, it shouldn't matter whether you've read Astrobots Arc 1. We hope that you have, but the story will start and it might refer back in places, but it will be a complete entity in its own right. Each arc is going to have that self-sustaining quality to it that it can exist in isolation.

37:48
or as one arc of three or four or however many we end up doing. I love to hear that means I can recommend Astrobots to all my friends, regardless of where you guys are at in the story and they can follow along. Simon, I want to read this excerpt from the Marvel UK Wikipedia, which which caught my eye. And it speaks to the success of the Transformers line at the time. And I'm going to read this. And I just wanted to hear your opinion, see if any memories come back to you about that time.

38:18
But this particular excerpt, like I said, from the Marvel UK Wikipedia, it says that Transformers, in particular, was a major seller for Marvel UK, selling 200,000 copies a week at its height. Its main writer, Simon Furman, would eventually take over the Marvel US version of the title as well and continues to work on the franchise to this day. I think this is probably an older excerpt. But the key thing I wanted to highlight was the amount of copies it was selling.

38:46
at the height. Were you aware of the popularity? Did that influence the way that you approached the series? Did you feel like you were firing on all cylinders? When you think back to when you hear something like this, I guess what comes to mind for you? What do you think? I mean, I can't remember. We just wanted to do the best job we could. We never really sort of set out to do more than keep our readers happy. It was great. And

39:14
Yes, sales were wonderful back then, you know, to a scale now you can't even kind of grasp exactly count numbers, but you know, we didn't really sort of we back then, we didn't think we'd be here. Best part of 40 years later, talking about those stories. We were just every week. We need to keep our readers happy, bring them back for more. So it was a very basic level of, you know,

39:44
we need to make this comic look as good as it can, sell as well as it can, inspire hopefully people to pick up the next issue and the next. So yes, in retrospect, that was an amazing sort of amount of sales and I think it helped Marvel UK sort of produce its own line of comics like Dragon's Claws, like Sleeves Brothers, like Death's Head. So yes, it was fundamentally

40:13
you know, great for Marvel UK and for our careers. But we operated on a very much, we were weekly comic, we needed to have this happen each week, bring the readers in, having a great cover, have a great story. So it's only in retrospect that we sort of can go, wow, that was amazing. But at the time, we just were happy. We were, you know, soldiering on and people seemed to like what we were doing. And in many ways,

40:43
exactly how I approach writing Transformers or anything else now. You know, I enjoy the process so much and I just hope that that translates to the readers as well. So as long as that's happening, I'm happy basically. And, you know, yes, here I am. I mean, it's now, this is the 40th anniversary of Transformers and I'm still involved with Transformers. I write for a lot of the games that are happening at the moment.

41:12
So it's never gone away for me. It's been a sort of linchpin of my career. And for that, I'm very grateful. And those efforts we put in back in the day, it's very satisfying. When I joined the Marvel US Transformers comic series, the series was sort of dipping towards cancellation figures for the time. Marvel used to cancel below.

41:40
a hundred thousand or maybe even higher. And Transformers was on that cusp. So I came in to pick up the reigns from Bob Wielczyk with the ethos of, well, hell, let's just tell the best stories we can, the most epic stories. And if we get the number of issues, great. And we just went hell for leather with it and threw everything in.

42:09
cosmic wars and we got another 25, 26 issues out of it. So I think it's just you do what you can. You do what you can to tell the best story possible, to keep the readers as happy and engaged as possible. And that has been pretty much a constant for me right up to here on Astrobots. Wow. I mean, how many times have you heard that exact kind of sentiment where it's writer comes onto a title? I mean, not.

42:39
This is not a one for one case, but a writer comes into a title or takes over a character that maybe is like a C-list or forgotten or the sales are slumping and it's kind of like, you know, pushed to the corner. And that gives them the creative freedom to write or do the story they want. And, you know, lo and behold, it becomes like a critical success. I think that the results are always something to kind of behold. And I think there's a lot of examples that you could point to. If I'm to, you know, circle back to that, Grant Morrison, he talks about, you know,

43:09
pitching Animal Man because it's like, well, I mean, you know, no one's really expecting anything from Animal Man. So I can tell the story I want to tell. So that's cool to hear some similarities there. Yeah, definitely. If you had to put a ballpark figure to the total amount of Transformers comics that you've written, like it's got to be at least, I mean, I tried to do some rough math. I probably didn't do the right amount.

43:36
Because I'm not sure how long Green Wave had it. And then obviously, you follow Transformers when IDW had the license. And that's not even counting the novels that you wrote, the one-offs. I guess it's just a ballpark figure. How many Transformers comics do you have to your name? I mean, it's got to be into the thousands. Right. You know? Because we had the UK comic, the US comic back in the day.

44:05
And since then, I've done comics for Dreamwave, for IDW, for Titan, for conventions. So yeah, we are dealing in thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of Transformers. So, you know, it's great. It's like I say, it's really been the sort of fundamental pillar of my career in comics. And it's great that it allows me the luxury, if you like, to do.

44:35
some of my own self-publishing now, some of my own sort of pet projects, that that Transformers audience is always there and always appreciative. And I go to conventions all the time and meet with the fans and they're always very receptive to some of the creator-owned things I've done. And that's great. It just gives you that sort of almost inbuilt audience who will try something new from you. And that's...

45:04
that goes for astrobots as well. So you got thousands of transformer comics under your belt, 40 years of working in the comic industry. Where does someone start? If someone's hearing all of this and they want to, and they want to get a sample or jump in somewhere and your transformers run, like where do you personally point them? And then in the same regard, where do you point them for your creator-owned stuff?

45:28
I mean, with Transformers, there's so many collected editions now, but I would almost pick one per publisher. And you've got a story back in Marvel UK days called Target 2006, which springboarded a lot of storylines for us. So that one, the sort of whole Unicron saga I did for Marvel US from issue, say, 69 to 75 is a great chunk.

45:58
of entertaining sci-fi saga to get your teeth into. For Dreamwave, a series called War Within, which took us back to the Cybertron Civil War before they came to Earth. And for IDW, a series called Infiltration, which was the first storyline with Transformers I'd started from

46:28
blank slate again and telling a whole new version of it, a bit somewhat modeled on Marvel's ultimate line. You know, a little more, I hate to use that word sophisticated again, but I'm going to, you know, it was that. It was sort of, you know, let's not have, you know, the robots introduce themselves en masse in the first five pages. Let's have a sort of slower build. So those and then, you know, of my current stuff, you know, I would say Astrobots, check out that.

46:58
It's a series you can just jump into. There's nothing before, plenty to come, more to come. So that's a good one to jump into. I've got a creator own series called To the Death that I do with an artist called Jeff Senior, which is a big kind of sci-fi epic. And I do a little series of noir crime graphic novels. Five Points is the first one and we're working on the second now. So...

47:25
those are all still available. Some great recommendations. And I feel like that is a question that probably after we record, you'll probably be like, oh, wait a minute. Then there was that thing I did in 2005, and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot. Yeah, so I guess it leads me to ask, what are the keys to success? We're talking, you are about 40 plus years into the comic book industry, give or take.

47:52
You're highly acclaimed, well respected. We talked about the diehard fans that follow you, that are willing to give your creator-owned work stuff a shot. And I guess if you had to give some advice to aspiring writers or comic creators that are listening and they're like, damn, I wanna have a 40-plus year career in comics, what's some advice that you would give? Well, one is try not to let the passion diminish. Sort of keep that level up because

48:21
Passion is something that I think translates between sort of the script to the reader experience. If you're passionate about it, I never ever approach something. It doesn't matter whether I think it's going to be my finest work, my, you know, a career benchmark or anything. It doesn't matter what it is. I will approach that story as if it's the most important story I've ever written. And I'm, you know.

48:50
trying to translate to the reader, to engage them with it. And I think so you've just got to, you know, you approach every story the same way. You might be more passionate about one thing, but it should be the same hit that a reader of, you know, I just did a little series based on an arcade game called Battletoads. I hadn't even heard of Battletoads. Classic. You know, I immerse myself and I try and get that sort of level of storytelling up.

49:20
to where someone's going to respond to that. So I'd say that's big. I would say just be reliable. This is a sort of business where you need to deliver, you need to do it to a schedule, a deadline again and again and again. So I think you have to have a certain professionalism and the work needs to be done. I always say to people,

49:48
you know, if they say, oh, you know, anything, if they ever mentioned kind of writer's block, I say, no, no, no, you work your way right through that. You write something, even if you then delete it all and, you know, save a few bits, but, you know, you just have to keep going and, you know, it will come right. So those two things, I think. Do you still do the convention circuit? Do you travel a lot for comic conventions and appearances? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this year, because it's the 40th anniversary,

50:18
both of my comics career and Transformers, coincidentally, but it's been a very busy year. I've been to, you know, London, Toronto, you know, sort of all dotted UK conventions here. I've got a big convention in the north of England next month, another Transformers convention in November. So yeah, you know, at the moment conventions, you know, are just part and parcel of my...

50:47
my working year, if you like. And I love it because I get out there, I meet a bunch of people I don't see very often on the professional level. And then I get to meet the readers who are giving me the live feedback on what I'm doing. So that is always invaluable. Have you ever had a fanboy moment yourself? Have you ever met another comic writer or a celebrity that has put you in a state of fanboy or wow? I guess have you ever been?

51:16
Stargaze? I don't know what the proper word is, but yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I count myself as amazingly lucky that I got to meet Stan Lee on a couple of occasions. And that was my fanboy moment, because I grew up reading his stories. So that was fabulous. But in the course of my career, I've met so many people. When I was first working for Marvel in the late 80s, early 90s,

51:43
It was an amazingly creative place full of amazingly talented people that I got to work alongside. And yeah, I'm in awe of lots of the creators I've met, but yeah, you can't help but be starstruck by some of those names, especially the ones you really followed growing up when you were a comics fan. You know, I tend to look at things.

52:12
a little differently now that I'm a sort of seasoned, if you like, professional. But, you know, when I was in my teens, you know, the idea of meeting Stan Lee, sitting down to talk to a Chris Claremont or a John Burke, you know, incredible. And, you know, generally you find, you know, you have your starstruck moments, but, you know, then you find out they're just nice guys, you know, easy to get on with.

52:40
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it is sometimes it really is good to meet your heroes. Yeah, that's so that's well said. So I like hearing that. I like hearing anytime those moments and thank you for say starstruck is the word I was thinking of hearing those interactions and in a positive note, because you always hear about like the other side and that old, you know, saying of never meet your heroes, but that's awesome to hear. And I guess speaking about celebrities and being starstruck. I was today years old when I learned that

53:10
Neil Tennant, who is, for those that might not be familiar, I think most people know him as one of the co-founders of the pop group Pet Shop Boys. But I was, today, years old when I learned that he was, he worked in the Marvel UK office. He was a, he was a, he was a production editor, right? Like, did you have any interactions with him? Do you have any stories with Neil? Unfortunately, he was before my time, so I never got to meet him. But yes, he, he was, you know, one of the,

53:36
assistant editors or I'm not sure what his title was at Marvel UK. I think Marvel UK at the time was more of a sort of reprint house than it became. But yeah, you know, he was on staff there. So yeah, that's my little, my little claim to fame anecdote as well. Who then worked pretty much in the same job I did before I got into that position. Yeah. I mean, you know, when, the more I keep reading about like,

54:04
Marvel UK, and really, I think, just holistically, like comic books, the comic scene in the UK. I mean, some of the names that I'm coming across, obviously we've spoken a lot about some of the huge names that would belong to them, Mount Rushmore, Alan Moore's, your Grant Morrison's, but I've read something where at the height of Marvel UK and all that, you had a lineup that included folks like Liam Sharp, Brian Hitch, the late great Carlos Pacheco, Salvador Larroca, Dan Abner, it's like, man.

54:34
There's some great comic book talent across the pond. I got to give it to you, Simon. Yeah, for sure. You can look back at the Marvel UK days. And what you call big name American artists now, yeah, they got their start back in the Marvel UK days. Barry Kitts and Brian Hitch. And it's just great. We all have to start somewhere. And I guess that was just the starting point for those guys.

55:02
Yeah, talk about a breeding ground for just awesome creatives. To go back real quick to Neil Tennant, because then I ended up going down this rabbit hole about Pet Shop Boys and Neil Tennant and trying to find out more about his time as a Marvel editor. But I came across this thing where is a phrase that Neil Tennant coined called the imperial phase. And the imperial phase is used to describe the period in which a musical artist is regarded to be at their commercial and creative

55:31
peak simultaneously. So in his case, selling a bunch of records, but also getting that acclaim and respect for putting out quality and creative work. If you had to look internally and say what your imperial phase is, what point in your career would you say was your imperial phase of both commercial and creative success? Yeah, I mean, it's probably that Marvel period where I was.

55:57
working for Marvel UK and Marvel US in the late 80s into the 90s. I think that was when... That was where, certainly looking from the inside, the outside in, I think that was where I'd reached where I wanted to reach. But in fact, I count myself hugely lucky that here I am 40 years later still gainfully employed in this business. So, I think...

56:26
in a way, rather than one period. I think, you know, the thing I look back on now and say is that longevity is probably better than any one sort of purple patch, if you like. So I'm just glad I'm still here producing comics. Simon, you are such a likeable guy, a humble, modest man, despite the epic career that you've had. I got one more question for you. You know, when you think about the 40 years that you've been in comics, I can only

56:56
You have personally, in firsthand account, seen developments and new technology and just developments in the way comic books are made. And if I was to fast forward to today's day and time, AI seems to be a very big topic, especially when it comes to creatives and how it will impact creative fields such as comics. As someone that writes about, you know,

57:21
robots, mechs, AI components within these stories, like astrobots, as mentioned a few times. What are your thoughts about AI's place in comics? Is there a place for AI in comics? Should creators be leveraging it as a tool, or do you prefer it to be separated? I think AI, for a start, is such in its real infancy in terms of something that's as creative as comic books.

57:48
And that thing I was talking about before, the passion, the sort of the fan experience that, your fan experience that you bring into the mix to create something. I just don't see how AI can really reproduce that. And obviously there's all sorts of other issues about the copyright of artists' work. And I think that it's a tread very carefully thing with AI. It's still very early doors.

58:17
but I think it will never ever replace that sort of, that sort of passion, creativity that comes from a place of being a fan yourself. You know, you can't, I think, program a computer to be a fan in that way and channel all those influences and understand what a reader wants to read, wants to see in a comic book. So I think we're a country mile away from anything

58:46
on that level where you deal with AI. I think the creative spark very much lies in people who grew up with comics, are passionate about comics and want to sort of pass that on to other people. So, I don't see it being a big thing really. Very responsive. That means a lot coming from someone like you for sure to hear that. Simon, is there anything else that you want to say about Astrobots? Any other reasons?

59:15
Do you want to reiterate a reason why people should check out Astrobots and why it's a worthwhile read? I think if you're a big, if you're a fan of big sweeping sci-fi with a lot of high concept stuff, but also a lot of interesting character, resonant character stuff as well that says something about where we are in the world today, I think you'll enjoy, you'll get something out of Astrobots that works on many levels, I think.

59:45
I think you'll be able to get something out of it, whether it's the characterization, the sweep of the story, the whole sort of backstory we're presenting here, or just some of the issues it raises. And we are trying to sort of put our finger on some, you know, some thorny issues around, you know, evolution and free will and things like that. So I think there's plenty, whether you just like the robot action, whether you want a sort of compelling storyline.

01:00:14
You'll find whatever you want in Astrobots. I think that is as clear. You and Hector and Aaron, the vision that you guys have for this story is incredible so far. I'm looking forward to volume two. One more time for the folks that, I don't know, maybe join midway through. Astrobots, volume one, collects the first five issues of the first arc of Astrobots, which is being put out by Massive Publishing. You heard Simon mention that he's already working on the fourth volume, the fourth story arc.

01:00:42
And it sounds like regardless of where you jump in, hopefully you jump in at volume one issue one. And if you're just looking for really cool action figures based on the comic book series, they've got that in spades as well. I'm telling you, Astrobots. So do yourselves a favor, go pick up Astrobots volume one. Simon, where can people find you next? Are you going to be at any, I guess convention season is kind of like slowing down coming to a wrap, but is there anywhere that people can find you, maybe bring their Astrobots volume one to get signed or other comics?

01:01:10
Sure. I mean, I don't know about next year yet, but I've got a convention in the North of England called Thought Bubble next month, a small Transformers convention in Reading here in the UK. And then I hope, you know, I was in Toronto earlier this year for a Transformers convention, and I hope and expect to be at some American convention, North American convention somewhere next year. There we go. Hopefully, Simon, I get to run into you and shake your hand. But

01:01:40
This will suffice for now. This was a great conversation. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks, thanks, thanks for having me on.

01:01:49
There you have it Shortbox Nation, that's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out, thanks for being here, and a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode, help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a 5 star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

01:02:17
or wherever you get your podcast. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash The Short Box. It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash The Short Box.

01:02:44
Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chaitani, Tony Aupi, RC Gamet, Blake Simone, Blythe Brumleaf, Bo Evers, Brian Brumleaf, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker, Chris Jinx, Kenny Myers, David Morales, Triple D Mystic, Dominique Jackson, Errol White, Edbot 5000, Generation Jaguar, Greg Hopkins, Greg Ligtide, Henry Hernandez, Hershel, Hydrus96 aka Mac J. Sinner.

01:03:13
Jeff Frimmett, Jerome Cabanatan, Joshua Miller, Justin McCoy, Kara Reichart, Cassie Whitley, Corey Torteson, Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin, Nick Wagner, Podcasters Assemble, Stephen Gamet, T-Mix, The Wait For It Podcast, Thomas Pandich, Thurian, Trey Namo, Walter Gant, Warren Evans, and Zach Armour. Thanks again to everyone that listens and supports this show. Be sure to come back next week for a new episode. And most importantly, take care of yourselves. Read a good comic.

01:03:42
and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.