How Radiant Black and The Massive-Verse Are Redefining The Superhero Genre - With Writer Kyle Higgins - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 457

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In this episode of The Short Box. 34 issues in almost three years of Radiant Black. What is the elevator pitch for Radiant Black for someone that is brand new that's listening to this right now? So it's a very contemporary superhero book about two disillusioned millennials navigating failed dreams and crippling credit card debt with the help of miniature black holes and existential giant robots. Ten out of ten, damn, I could have even been more succinct. The definition is succinct.

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Intro music plays 

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Yo, Short Box Nation! Hello again, welcome back and happy new comic book day. It's another Wednesday, another new podcast. Thanks for pressing play today. If you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the creators that put their blood, sweat and tears into making them. And yes, my voice sounds funny today because I'm getting over a cold and nothing sucks worse about having a cold, except for maybe having a cold.

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during a hot ass Florida spring. just does not go hand in hand. I've been miserable. So my unsolicited advice for everyone is to drink your fluids and take care of your health, all right? Do me that favor. Here shortly, I'll be joined by comic writer Kyle Higgins, who you just heard in the intro. Kyle Higgins is not only a very talented and successful comic book writer, but he's also a filmmaker. His past work includes popular runs like Nightwing for DC's New 52, Batman Gets a Gotham, and Batman Beyond.

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He's a household name among Power Rangers fans for his Mighty Morphin Power Rangers comic for Boom Studios. And it doesn't stop there. If you ask any comic fan right now about Kyle Higgins today, and they'll point you towards his self-contained superhero universe called the Massiveverse, which include a handful of comic books published through Image Comics like Radiant Black, which is the superhero who kicked off the entire Massiveverse. You've got Rogue Son, Radiant Red, Cal, No One, and a whole lot more. At the time of this recording though, Radiant Black is currently underway with its Rebuild arc, which is a

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brand new story arc that serves as the perfect jumping on point for new readers. We'll hear from Kyle about what's going on with Radiant Black, the new projects he's working on, and why it's the perfect time to jump on board the Massiverse train. Short Box Nation, without further ado, let's welcome the man behind Radiant Black and the Massiverse. Let's welcome Kyle Higgins to the show. What up, Kyle? How you doing? Welcome to Short Box.  I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, man.

02:48
Can I go ahead and give you props and maybe an award at that? Maybe the first ever short box award of this kind.  You might have the nicest video quality and sound quality of any guest  I've ever had.  You are welcome. We were talking about this just before we started recording, but yeah, I worked in post-production for many years and I was a sound editor for like 10 years or something like that  between college and then after college before I was writing comics full-time.

03:18
With the amount of stuff we do now in audio, whether it's the No One audio series that we did or the upcoming, the big Radiant Black audiobook, I've just felt like, you know what, I'm going to get everybody the same gear. So like our core team all has the same mic setups  so that anyone can record scratch audio in at any point into any of the projects.  But also like I'm set up so like someone can come over and record here if need be,  like an actor or something like that. I would  booth it off more and everything, but.

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Yeah, and then we just do and we've done enough live streams where the video looked so awful and it's like I come from a filmmaking background like  I can't like I've been I've worked in post for all these years like my stuff cannot look this bad like come on we got to do something about this so  I'm glad I'm glad it's coming through smooth So I guess I say all that to say  listeners of the show  if you want to check out the video It's well worth it because you get to see Colin like  4d maybe even 5d. It's that class. We've got some cool helmets over here, too

04:18
Kyle, before we talk Radiant Black, I want to ask, how was India? I understand that you traveled to Chennai, I think is how you say it, for six days for Comic-Con India? Yeah, yeah, we went to  Chennai.  Chennai, okay. Yeah, was Marcelo Costa,  Eduardo Ferragato, myself and Kelly McMahon,  and it was amazing.  The convention was publishing  Radiant Black number one for

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convention goers and it was something like 250,000 copies or something crazy. And so they were interested in bringing us out to help support and we said, absolutely. So yeah, it was amazing. We only got  one real full day to explore, but we were like, we had a full day. were,  I think we drove hour and a half outside the city and got into  some really cool cultural stuff and then some local spots.

05:17
for different meals. Pretty incredible  fish on the beach.  Yeah, it was quite a trip. How was the reception to Radiant Black? I guess is there an appetite, the pun, an appetite for superhero  comics out there like that? Yeah, huge, huge superhero appetite.  A lot of interest in all the Marvel movies and everything on that  front. then,  comics-wise, yeah, mean,

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I had many, many, many, many conversations with superhero fans of all ages talking about not only Radiant Black,  some of whom had already read it, but others who were just interested in talking about Batman and  different superheroes  of our industry.  I don't know how  easy it is to get comics  throughout India. I was just wondering that,

06:17
Yeah, but I mean, I know things can be ordered online and shipped and things like that. So for us, it was about bringing this book to a whole other kind of area of the world and just introducing, you know, a whole bunch more people to the material and the universe, you know, the publishing line we've got going. that's kind of one of our biggest pushes right now and focuses is on raising general awareness.

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that we have a significant enough back catalog that people can really find and then get immersed into the universe.  So as we  do more ads and marketing towards general awareness and  you see all the promos that like Will Friedle and Ryder Strong do with us and Johnny Young Bosch,  a lot of that is coming now because  I feel like we have a strong enough footprint that we can start getting the word out a bit more.

07:11
Kyle, do you have a time machine? Because I'm trying to figure out how you cram  all this stuff in a regular 24-hour day. I mean,  you went to Comic-Con India. That's not even accounting for all the different things that have been announced for the massive verse. But just this month, I think,  you announced that you're doing the Spider-Verse versus Venomverse for Marvel. You're doing Immortal Legend for Batman.

07:34
I guess how do you go about prioritizing or picking your projects? Like how do you make time for everything? Like is there any, I guess, tools or secrets of the trade that you've had to like fine tune throughout the years? One of my superpowers has always been being able to juggle a million things. I mean, again, remember I come out of like independent filmmaking and like if you want to do something, you just have to do it and figure out a way to do it. And so,  you know, I definitely have some ADHD there.

08:04
as well.  I don't know. I mean, have really, really great collaborators is the truth. I I co-write a lot more these days.  Joe Clark co-writes on Radiant Black with me.  Matt Groom and I co-write Spider-Verse versus Venomverse as well as Immortal Legend Batman.  And so that's  great because it allows me all of the kind of like creative liberties and being able to build this without

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everything falling on my shoulders.  And so yeah, it creates opportunities like for Matt to do some stuff and  he's in with those editors now as well. And I'm excited because hopefully that leads to more cool stuff  for them together.  But no, I mostly it's like I move from fire to fire and I tackle...

09:00
I tackle whichever one is burning the hottest at the moment first. That tracks, because I've heard you talk about how,  I think you've said like collaboration is your favorite part about making comics and getting to work with the team that you've got. And then I also understand that you used to play like sports in high school. think you went basketball, I think tennis.  I guess is that where that collaborative teamwork spirit comes from? I think it's from a few places, but definitely  when I was in eighth grade and I made

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the school  at junior high is like this official school basketball team. It was really, really competitive and that it was, the program was really strong for many years.  So  when I made the team, that was the first time that I was on a real team with like a really strong leader and everyone finding their roles and personalities within it all. And like, I was a little more on the outs  with that because I didn't play.

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like much, I was on the bench a lot.  But I responded to what it's like to build that kind of environment where it is a group and it's all of everyone kind of together. And that coupled with like, again, filmmaking, you know, making these projects and it's like you rally people with your excitement and  enthusiasm, you rally them putting in time and energy to help bring something to life. And it's like, it's a lot of fun.

10:27
So it is that is the part that I think there's there's comes out of sports, sure. But also, like I grew up playing in bands. I was a trumpet player till I was like 25. Like so I've played in all and played around in all sorts of different, I guess, collaborative environments. And in particular, the types of films that I like to make, which tend to be a little bit even as short films, they're they're larger in scale. They tend to require.

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larger crews  and  really skilled crews  in order to execute at the production level that we're talking about. And so you have to know how to work well with others.  And then working with actors is a whole other skill on top of that. You have to know how to speak actor language  and be whatever that actor needs. And every actor needs something different with their collaborator and their director. yeah,  that's  just kind of stuff I've always kind of done, I guess.

11:25
And so now it's really carrying over into comics because we have this, you know, black market narrative is set up as it's a creative studio, but I describe it as a creative collective studio because it is this kind of merging of a lot of different types, a lot of different people from a lot of different walks of life and a lot of different disciplines as we make things in new and different ways. Speaking about filmmaking, I read that you interned for the legendary.

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Richard Donner like shortly after getting out of college and that was like really kind of helped you get your foot in the door I guess  looking back  on that time. What do you think? What would you say was like the most important lesson that you learned that maybe you still carry with you to this day?  So it was a quote He said it. I mean he and I talked about it, but he  also  said it for  His good friend  who was also my mentor Tom Mankiewicz his book which was that

12:20
Like 95 % of directing was casting.  And I think that applies  to so many things even outside of  film and actors and acting. But what it really means is like putting the right people in the right positions.  Putting the right people in the positions  is what gets you the best work. And so it's like, you have to have an eye for the right people and kind of like the qualities that you think.

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make someone good for  the position you're putting them in.  like, you really have to like, yeah, it's just so much of it is about that. It's just putting people in positions to succeed and like not putting people.

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in on projects, for example, that, know, can't deliver any amount of time that you have or won't be able to work with this other collaborator, you know, or, whatever. So I think it's, it's, again, it comes down to probably people actually have a cool poster here. was trying to see if I can unmount my camera on one second. Oh yeah. Let's do it. A little tour of the Higgins studio.

13:32
Oh, wow. Oh, man. Classic poster. The classic you'll believe a man can fly poster. So that poster was given to me by Tom Mankiewicz. He'd had it for, I believe, like 30 years or something. And after Tom passed away, I reached back out and asked if Donner would sign it for me because I never had Tom sign it. And so Dick wrote,  to Kyle, hope to sign your DGA card,  Richard Dick Donner, which is awesome. Yeah. Wow. That's great. And I feel like since we're on the topic of

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kind of humble beginnings and breaking into the industry. Kyle, what words  or story or what memories come to mind when I say Captain America, theater of war, prisoners of duty? Because  according to your Wiki, this is the earliest comic book credit that I could find. So this Captain America  one shot. What comes to mind? That's a long title.  That's probably the number one thing that comes to mind. It's a long title.

14:31
No, it was my first comic book. That was after I directed The League, which was my college film. Eric White, who had designed all the characters, he was a cartoonist. He sent out an email to like 200 people, everyone he knew in film, TV and comics, telling them about the short and giving them the link and telling them to reach out if they liked it. And so, one of the first people who emailed me was Joe Cassata, who was the editor-in-chief of Marvel at the time. And so, Joe was really, really complimentary.

15:00
about what we had done and what we were doing.  basically that started a conversation and then a relationship where I was pitching to Marvel for  about a year, year and a half before landing an issue of  Captain America. But yeah, that was technically my first comic I ever wrote. When's the last time you've  revisited this story?  Oh, it's been a long time. I might have one sitting over here actually on my spinner rack.  no, I haven't read it lately. Why?

15:29
I just had a curiosity. I always like to see if, I'm always curious if like comic creators ever go back to their earlier work and see if there's anything like they can glean from it. Or I know it's probably like me going back to like episode one of this podcast, right? It's probably like super cringe and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I would ever put this out. Yes and no. I I'll revisit things once in a while. Like I'll get.

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When a collection shows up at my door, like a new collection for something, I'll inevitably flip through the book and reread different sections and stuff. And you  remember making it the first time and remember weird details about  it all in the process. So I'll do that, yeah. I have to revisit my stuff so frequently on Radiant Black just for continuity reasons to figure out, wait, how did we do this two years ago? We've been going long enough now.  This is actually the longest I've ever been on a book.

16:24
All of my other runs tended to be about three years. And I think that's really impressive as someone that picked up Radiant Black issue one, like the day it came out, what, February 2021? February 10th, 2021. It's impressive to know that it's still ongoing because I think it's safe to say there isn't a lot of original superhero comics that go past, I'd say like 12. So the fact that you guys, at the time of this recording, I think issue 33,

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or 34 will be out. Let's set the stage really quick for anyone that maybe is oblivious to Radiant Black. is up to by the time this episode comes out, issue 34 will be coming out May 28th. I'll have this episode out before then. It'll be smack dab in the middle of this new rebuild arc. And I'm curious, 34 issues in almost three years of Radiant Black. I'm curious how your elevator pitch for Radiant Black is now compared to maybe when you first started.

17:22
What is the elevator pitch for Radiant Black for someone that is  brand new that's listening to this right now?  It's a very contemporary superhero book about two disillusioned millennials navigating failed dreams and crippling credit card debt with the help of miniature black holes and existential giant robots. Ten out of ten, damn. I could have even been more succinct. The only thing more succinct than that  was probably that the story so far one shot that you put out.

17:48
Which by the way  succinct, the definition is succinct. Well, we joke that I, whenever people come up to my table, you know, I get a lot of Power Ranger fans and readers and some  of them have heard of Radiant Black and never tried it. Others have never heard of it at all. And so depending on, you know, who I'm talking to about the book, I will, if they like Power Rangers, I will often joke that it's like Power Rangers with adult problems.

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Then  when I hit them with that first page splash of the bank account balance and the credit card debt and then moving back home by page four  with their parents,  they get it. Everyone is like,  okay, I understand. Yeah, real problems. Yes, got it.  I remember being sold on it by, it probably either a friend or  my comic shop guy. was like, hey, Kyle Higgins, I know that you're not reading Power Rangers, but he's doing his own thing with his own superheroes.

18:46
This is kind of like that, but it's his own thing. And I'll admit the way I sell, I was selling friends on Radiant Black. I was using kind of like movie comparisons. like, yo, this is like Juice meets Chronicle meets Interstellar. It's it's kind of all of these things. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I've never heard that mashup before. I like that. I think Juice because it's like the two friends that are kind of with butt and heads and I think Chronicle and Interstellar speak for itself.

19:13
I guess, could you take us back to, I guess, February 2021 and maybe before that? Like, where did the idea for Radiant Black come from? Like, what was the inception of it?  Well, I mean, the genesis of it, it comes from a few different places.  And then there was this moment where everything kind of coalesced. And so I had left Power Rangers and I was working  on, you know, before I left, we were working on this live action digital series.

19:41
that would be like in the world of the coinless and like it'd be like the Lord Drakkon like in that kind of world and stuff. And it looked like it was going really well. And then  with Saban and everything and then Hasbro bought the brand like for half a billion dollars like overnight. And so everything ended up getting like killed. And so I started playing around with the idea of just like, okay, the spirit of the world of the coinless, what is something kind of like dystopian that I could kind of build maybe as a digital series vehicle, maybe

20:11
You know,  I wasn't  sure, but initially it was thinking like, maybe we could do like kind of our own digital series and some of the people involved, you know, we could just do this thing. And then very quickly it became clear. was like, this is, who's going to buy this? Like, this is not,  like it's not based on anything. Like it would still be a high budget for this kind of format.  I'm going to play around with this in comics. Cause what I had come up with was this, this world, the working title was called, was just called Vanguard. But then.

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iconography were these miniature black holes called Radiance and then the title became Radiant Black. And so it was just going to be the six issue comic thing that was kind of in this post dystopian. It's like 200 years after some form of like Power Ranger types would have saved the world and it's telling that kind of story, right? And while that's going on, I was up for a book at DC. One of my favorite editors asked me to pitch on a concept

21:09
And what I'd come up with  basically involved a late  20s, early 30s year old  getting laid off from Wayne Enterprises and having to move back in with his parents in like the Gotham suburbs. And I didn't ever end up even pitching the book because what the book needed to be, I just  didn't feel like I was the right guy for it, especially at that point. But I liked that concept, that hook that I'd come up with. It felt like, oh, there's something there. Like I've lived in LA now, this will be

21:39
This summer makes it 20 years since I moved out here from Illinois  and  You know, I've watched plenty of friends move back who were out here  I went back and stayed with my family for like three months in between apartments and and stuff like that a couple years ago and after a bad breakup and so it was just like oh That's that feels timely. It feels like some of the things going on, know right now, especially if you're my age and and

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realizing like, oh shit, like this whole career thing is not exactly what they promised us was going to be there, you know? So all of that was kind of like swirling. And then Eric Stevenson asked me if I'd ever, he's the publisher at Image, if I'd ever considered putting together an original superhero. And I asked him what he meant and he said, well, like not like a Batman or Superman analog, but like something like.

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like right now, like original, like think of it as like optimistic sci-fi if that's easier to get your head around. And I was like, well, I would kill to do something like that, but I didn't think there'd be a market for it. And he told me he thought there would be and walked me through some stuff. And he told me to let anyone else, creator wise, I thought would be a good fit to know like this was an opportunity. He wanted to put an emphasis on like the image superhero universe again. And so I told him, I was like, well, look, I've got this radiant black thing.

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that we were gonna do remember, but like, what if I do it straight? What if I do it in 2021 or 2020?  And we do it as a really contemporary right now superhero book. And I use the iconography  and the name from that other pitch.  And then I play with that idea of like, the book's not about me, but there's a lot of me in the book. And so it's me writing about a lot of my fears and things like that. And so it's like, all right, like I wanna design this. You can't pick your hits, but like,

23:29
Let's see if we can design this in a way where if it works,  I can keep going with it. It can grow with me as a creator, you know?  And so that really kicked off what became the book.  And then I reached out to Ryan Parrott immediately and pitched in the idea. Matt Groom was already working on Infernal Girl Red and I was the editor on it. We were looking for an artist still and we ended up finding the Erika D'Urso after that. And then the styles all lined up and it was like...

23:56
guys, we should do this. We should actually do this as little initiative, like a little universe. And so that's how the Massiveverse kind of came together. I've personally heard you tell the story a few times across other interviews. And  I still think it's cool to hear how thinking Radiant Black and the Massiveverse is an accumulation of Batman, like this Batman script you had, but also coming off of Power Rangers. So these stories that like,

24:21
got your name to where it's at now, but then also the personal aspect. And I think it comes through in the comic. That's something I vividly remember reading that first couple, six issues was  just how personable it was and how timely it felt. Because we're talking February 2021,  Prime in the middle of lockdown. People are losing their jobs. I had friends moving  back to Jax after trying to go out and  find a career.

24:48
So I felt like it was a perfect accumulation of all these  things going on in the world. And to your point,  it is a really good contemporary superhero story. Micro superhero universes seem to be a big thing now. mean, we don't even need to look at the big two, what Marvel's doing for their ultimate line or DC of their absolute line. I mean, we could look at Dark Horse, what they're doing with minor threats and that universe being built out,  or  Skybound of the inner Dran universe. And then obviously, we've got

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the massive verse. Why do you think it's a great time for  these type of stories? Are people looking for these superhero stories consciously or unconsciously? Do you think there's something in the air? That's a good question. mean, part of what's frustrating for me is that I still don't feel like enough people are looking for these stories currently. The books that are selling well right now from Marvel and DC  are books that

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I'm not saying they're not good books or anything like that, but they tend to be a bit familiar.  And you'll see like really, really big numbers on that stuff. It's a little, well, I don't want to say it's frustrating, but like would say to your question that, yeah, I don't think enough people actually are reading this stuff and checking it out. But the fact that we are able to support it all does mean that there are more people coming to find it. And I think that a reason for that is because every generation kind of goes through this.

26:11
realizing and feeling at a certain point, you become very aware of the churn of like monthly superhero comics and the illusion of change and like things resetting. now, so like I've now gone through three of them, it feels like.  And I do think there's something that's a little bit broken in the Marvel and DC mechanism  of making you feel like the illusion and perception of continue, continually moving story, like, like a continuing story.

26:40
And so like, this is a conversation we have all the time on our side, which is like, we don't have any limitations.  And I feel a responsibility if we're going to not only be doing a creator own book in 2025, but create our own superhero book, that it be living to the promise of its premise  and like doing things that only it can do because we don't have the same type of like rigidness at a Marvel in DC or even a like

27:08
Well, you can't break the toys. You have to make sure they go back in the toy box exactly as you found them. Like we don't have that either because it's all original. But yeah, it would be nice if more people,  and I'm not, I don't mean to make it sound like people aren't reading our books because they are, but I just mean in the grand scheme of like how many Batman books there are out there. And I say this to someone who's writing Batman right now. Like there's no shade. It's just like, you know, try more indie stuff would be my  mantra, especially if you want cool, different.

27:37
you know, unique storytelling. totally agree. It seems that podcasts and to a larger extent, like digital media seems to play like a really important role in the massive verse, both in universe and in the real world. mean, there's a 10 episode podcast of no one that's on Spotify, which has got, you know, fucking Pat and Oswald on it, which is great. You got the the radiant black podcast. You got the audio book that's coming out. You've got like secret QR codes and trades and things like that.

28:06
And I selfishly want to ask, since big podcast fan over here, Kyle, what was your first conscious exposure to podcasts? Do you remember the first one that you listened to that got you hooked? What are some of your favorites?  Oh, geez. In a weird way, I was making my own podcasts many, years ago. I used to  the  directors' commentary tracks off of DVDs and Blu-rays.

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and turn that into an MP3 and put it on my mini disc player or my iPod so that I could listen to directors' commentaries while I drove and stuff.  But I used to listen to Script Notes a lot, the John August and  Craig Mazin podcasts about screenwriting.  I listened to a lot of podcasts on the Chicago Bears  and sports.  I listened to some comics podcasts,  certainly David Harper.

29:01
Yeah, it's wonderful sketched. Yeah. I guess what was the motivation to  think outside of just comic books, to use podcasts and then  create a YouTube channel for Massiveverse where you guys are  making  animated shorts to coincide with the comic books?  Where does that idea come from? Well, it's twofold or threefold. The first is that it's all stuff I like doing. So it's easy to...

29:29
get excited to make the extra stuff because it's all in formats  that I personally enjoy. It's also in formats that lend themselves to  lower budget storytelling, but  higher immersion experiences.  Audio in particular, if you could find a way, it has to work with the story and the concept, but in the case of No One, that particular project

29:59
which has, you know, it's the true crime superhero mystery in our line. It felt like a true crime  podcast, ala, you know, the Sarah Keening  serial podcast from about 10 years ago. That felt like something that made sense within the concept. It felt resonant with it. And so  for me, it expands  the possibilities of storytelling.

30:26
And immersion again is such a big thing for us.  The immersion is the other reason why, I guess the third component of why we do that kind of stuff. it's that  feeling like there's some magic still in the world to some extent. that's something that I strive for. The idea of trying to capture that experience of being a fan that I grew up having when things felt fun.

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to some extent and  exciting. And there were promos on  Fox Kids every week and every day for this week or today on Batman, the animated series.  There was viral marketing like Cloverfield and the Dark Knight and stuff like that.  And I just feel like so much of what we are riffing on  is  the same tenants that Marvel was kind of

31:24
defined by in the 1960s, which was we are the universe that is the world outside your window.  And for a variety of reasons, Marvel can't really be that anymore, you know? But  we are a small, newer entity that is doing superhero stories that are  right outside your window. And a part of communicating in a modern world is by using

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you know, the tools and the platforms that people are communicating on that they are consuming  their storytelling on, whether it be reading the news  or entertainment, you know, even your newsletter, you're reading that on your phone most of the time. So designing stuff that can actually be integrated into, you know, people's current routines for how they're consuming information felt like  an extra level, like an extra way to

32:24
reflect the world outside your window in these fictional stories that we tell.  I'll never forget going to the shop one day  and  my comic shop guy named Jonathan, he had a, who was a huge, I think he still is, a huge Radiant Black fan. Me and him would like,  hey, did you read the new issue? Yeah, I read the new issue. Did you pick this up? Well, one day I walked into the shop and he had a Radiant Black enamel pin and I was like,  where'd you get that from?

32:50
I was like, they got merch now? He's like, dude, in the back of whatever issue was, there's a QR code, it leads you to a secret shop, they sold out. So, ever since then,  if I pick up an issue, I'll flip to the back, try to find the QR code. But I was listening to an interview  speaking about David, and I'm learning that you guys also sold like bath bombs and there's all these elaborate things that you do with Radiant Black. I guess in your opinion, what do you think is the I guess,  boldest

33:17
you know, marketing move or Easter egg that you guys have done with the Massiveverse? I'd say there's probably  two.  The first is the Radiant Black versus Blaze secret cartoon that we made  with Will Friedle voicing Radiant Black through a QR code and issue. Have you seen that one?  I literally watched it right before I jumped on it with you. That was awesome. It like five minutes. Like easy to watch, but awesome.  And then the second one is probably  the no one, like the announcement of the movie.

33:45
that we're making the feature film. so shooting that live action trailer and I cut that myself as well. And then  doing all the posts on it and turning it around in time for to drop it at San Diego Comic Con was pretty cool. Trying to think what else we've done music.  We did a full orchestral score for issue number three  with the Budapest scoring orchestra. So that video is out there. That was a lot of fun. And the blacklight stuff is always really cool. So.

34:15
But yeah, I'd probably have to go with the cartoon and then maybe the live action trailer. Yeah. I'll tell you what gets what I'm most excited for now is the announcement of this Radiant Black audiobook, which is supposed to adapt the first volume of said series. You've got some,  I mean, can you think of a better cast to cast the two main characters, Nathan and Marshall? You've got Ryder Strong voicing Nathan and Will Friedle voicing Marshall, your two main characters in Radiant Black.

34:44
Holy  90s  childhood Batman. Could you pick two better people? As far as I understand, there's no release date just yet, but you're adapting volume one.  And I understand this will be like the first,  what is it? It'll be the first time an image comic has been adapted in an audio form of this level. I guess where did the inception of this audio book come from? And how did you get Ryder Strong and Wilfredo? Yeah. Boy Meets World involved. I mean, come on. So again, this was an Eric Stevenson.

35:13
idea. This was an image idea. Lorelai Bunches who runs digital at Image reached out to me and said that she and Eric had been talking about the idea of exploring more in the audiobook space, which is a growing space and there's not as much content in it as you might think. And there's very little comic book content. And I was already doing the No One podcast, but it was, you know, it's a scripted audio series. So it's a full, full cast voice production.

35:43
And so I immediately came to mind to them as like, you should see if Kyle would get this, you know? And it took me half a second and I was like, oh my God, yeah, of course. And then from there, I only know how to do things one way, which is like, well, what's the coolest version of this, you know?  And the coolest version to me was  we do this as a full voice cast  and  we'd already made jokes  and had Will Friedle voice radiant black.

36:12
for these promo audio spots that we did on social media. And then again, for the big Radiant Black versus Blaze cartoon and Will's in the book as himself. So it's like, well, Will has to voice Marshall for this.  And so then it becomes like, okay, well, who's Nathan?  And I didn't know Ryder, but  I knew Ryder's work, certainly. I grew up on Boy Meets World. We're all very close in age. I think they're a few years older than me.

36:42
Um, but the idea that like, it's also really important in an audio book to have, you need to really differentiate the voices.  And I felt like having a little bit of a, I don't want to say Ryder has a huskier voice, but it's like, it's a little bit, it's a different timber than, um, than what Will has.  And I was like, Ooh, that's gonna, I think that's going to work really, really nicely. And then the irony is like Will introduced Ryder and

37:12
and me  and he and I have become really good friends at this point and like he's a super talented writer director. So like we're working on a bunch of stuff  together  and so this has just been like a blast. I've already recorded Melissa Navia as Radiant Pink and Lauren Lester as Nathan's dad, Mr. Burnett and then Ryder has done all of his stuff except for the scenes with Nathan and

37:41
Marshall because we're going to record Will and Ryder together for those. Can I also say you've got one of my favorite  online comedians  among this cast, Troy Baker as Shift. That dude's voice is, mean, just alone his voice is awesome. He's got a way of delivery and I love the voice. love the cast. You can ask,  so Shift is my girlfriend's favorite character  and you could ask her Troy Baker was the first name. Like that was my dream.

38:10
Casting choice school from day one. It just felt like the perfect You know she calls shift hot green guy because he is that like that anti-hero with abs that are too good to be real  You know, but also like dangerous, but women kind of want to save them They definitely want to sleep with them, you know  And I'm just like fuck man Troy has that at Troy Troy will nail that Troy would absolutely kill her and so fortunately it was a very easy ask  he was

38:38
He could not have been  more generous with his  agreeing to  voice shift as quickly as he did.  We haven't recorded him yet, but very soon. Are  you guys dropping everything,  all episodes at once? Is it going to be a weekly release? What is the rough timeline? It still sounds like you're still doing recordings. Yeah,  we were targeting May, but that's not going to happen now.  The reality  is that the priority is keeping Radiant Black and Rogue's on the

39:08
books  on time and monthly. And that's a lot of work on top of there's about six other projects behind the scenes that people don't know about that we're also managing.  So there's a lot going on to keep everything running with the audio books. So I'm directing it all. There's still a few parts that we're casting. There's still a few  one or two roles that that we haven't announced that I'm firming. I'm locking down still.

39:35
But the plan is for all of volume one to release  all at once.  And it'll be through Audible, it'll be through wherever you can buy your audio books.  I believe on the Amazon side, that Audible version of volume one will also link with the trade paperback version of volume one as just another addition, which is awesome because  that helps with sales data and history and to...

40:03
hopefully elevate the audio book. But yeah, for those who haven't figured it out by now, the audio book is a full voice cast doing Radiant Black Volume 1. The intention is to do more beyond that, but we're just focusing on this first one right now. Yeah, there's a bunch of cool stuff we're doing behind the scenes on the marketing and PR front for when the time comes for that that I think people will get a kick out of too.

40:32
I think cool is an understatement, You got me  as an audio guy myself, I'm very excited for the announcement to hear that in action. And I want to say I'll include a link listeners to  a  Radiant Black recap that is voiced by Wilfredo and Ryder Strong, which if you haven't been keeping up with the comic book series, it's 90 seconds  and you get a little taste of them playing  the two main characters. It's awesome. I was watching it before we hopped on.  I think what I appreciate hearing you say though is that you're still keeping

41:01
among all this really cool podcast, animated short,  a movie, et cetera, that you're still keeping the comic book at the forefront  and the main focus. And I think that's what I enjoy about the massive versus that you've got all  these other rabbit holes that you can go down, all these other forms of entertainment that you can consume to kind of enrich the world that you guys are building. But you necessarily don't have to. If you just want to focus on the comic book, you still get a full story. So guess I'm curious to hear, why comic

41:30
What is it about the medium of comic books that is the perfect vehicle for these stories considering that you've got experience in all these other, you know mediums as well? I think it's for a few reasons. The first is  it's where I have the most experience. It's where I have the the biggest name and the most  ability to  Make things to get things made. I also just love the format and the medium  and I think that and I've said this

42:00
plenty publicly before, I think that if you're working in particular medium, you should be trying to do things that can only be achieved in that medium, kind of as much as possible.  Or at least that's what I try to do, where it makes sense. so comics, there are so many things you can do in comics that you can't do anywhere else.  And that's why we play with the format as much as we do and try to innovate within it. I mean, sequential storytelling is the

42:30
purest form of storytelling outside of a novel. Like it's such a direct laser  between you and the reader. And I think that there's a purity there that  is hard to replicate or to  even find  anything in the ballpark of because every other medium that  you just mentioned there requires more people, more money  and more approval.

42:59
I'm much more  interested at this point in both my career but my life  in working in the fields where I can actually make things  consistently and put them out than I am with waiting for the right opportunity to do the big TV show version that may or may not ever come. As somebody who made a really big movie in college, got a lot of attention and then

43:28
stopped making movies because  he didn't want to make anything unless it was at the same level as the thing that put him kind of on the map.  I can tell you it's a really  lonely way to be a filmmaker because you're not making movies. You're just constantly waiting. And so I don't want to do that anymore.  And,  you know, the fact that the No One Project is  leading to  my first feature directing opportunity is not a coincidence.

43:58
You so it's more about finding the mediums that you enjoy, that you feel confident in your ability to  do interesting things in  and that  are financially viable in a way that won't bankrupt you as you try to tell stories  and build out your universe or your library. said.

44:25
Hearing you say, know, comic books being a direct laser to the readers and such  actually brings me to  my favorite segment of any time I get to do an interview is  being able to bridge the gap between creator and comic shop and reader as well. And I like to call this segment the short box friends and family part of the show. So I  reached out to a couple of friends who are fans of yours and asked for any questions and I got two fantastic questions.  The first one being from

44:53
Ben Kingsbury of Gotham City Limit. I told him I'd have you on the show and he was very excited because you did something with the massive verse, did something in January that just made him very proud to own a comic shop. So I'm gonna play his voice now and you get to hear from him directly. Okay. Here we go. Hey Kyle, Ben K. Gotham City Limit, Jacksonville, Florida here. Thanks so much for taking some time for me. Whenever anybody ever asks what's the number one thing I would do in comics, I always say I would add  recaps.

45:23
That's why when your free Radiant Black, story so far recap issue came out, I was a little blown away. I mean, that's exactly what I was talking about, but even better. I mean, I wish I had more of it. It was a brilliant move. We added a number of pull customers and new readers, and it really exposed people to a universe maybe they hadn't gotten on to when it started in 2021. So I got a two part question for you. What inspired you to create this free recap?

45:52
And more importantly, how did you decide what key moments to add to capture the heart of what Radiant Black is? I'll leave you to answer. Thanks again so much for creating amazing content. We literally couldn't do it without you.  And remember, short box nation, we'll always take it to the limit. Big shout out to Ben. I told Ben, he can't be coming for my job. I got one job and that's to good questions to creators. And he's over here asking really good questions. Yeah. That is a good question. First of all, thank you, Ben.

46:20
And  I'm really, really glad that the recap special  landed in  such a positive way with you guys. For anyone who doesn't know but is seeing this,  what Ben's referring to  is  a special 12 page or no 16 page  comic that we put together called Radiant Black the Story so far. And inside it is a full recap.

46:46
of the events  of issues one through 30.5 of Radiant Black told in a series of three panel pages, essentially. This comes from a couple different places.  First and foremost, it comes from the fact that we are now doing something that very few books  are currently doing, which is we are trying to get people interested in a book above issue number 30.  And that's a really hard thing to do.

47:16
in this market and it's especially hard to do with an independent book. It's equally as hard to get retailers interested in a book above issue number 30. So the conversations I had with Eric Stevenson and the great people at Image about different things we could consider led to a few different things that we ended up employing. And one of them was this

47:45
story so far recap and this was Eric's idea coming out of,  know, Marvel used to do these  in the  80s  with different storylines.  And so we figured out with  a printer, we got a good deal on this.  And then Michael and I went through and picked the moments and how did we pick the moments? It all comes down to Nathan and Marshall and it's their, this book is their story. It's a story of these two best friends and their relationship. So.

48:13
As long as you anchor everything through their relationship, it's easy to find the key moments to tell an effective recap story. And then in the end, we also included ISBN numbers for all of the trade paperbacks currently out, a tease of some things to come in 2025, and then product information for issue 31, which kicked off the rebuild era. And then we also did a big animated version of it with, that you were talking about before with Wilfred Ellen Rider Strong.

48:40
and have made those videos available to retailers, as well as our upcoming issue promos that we cut for each issue as well. Let me move on to my second question that I got from a big fan of yours. Sure. He's a patron of the show, so I'm going to show him some love. This next question comes from Mac Jacobson. He wrote in and said, I'm a huge Kyle Higgins fan. This is awesome that he's on the show. The question I got, is there any heroes or villains you would love to write a story for?

49:10
but haven't had the chance yet. Keep up the fantastic work on Radiant Black. I mean, how is a story still so good after all these issues? It must have a fantastic writer.  Ah, well, thank you. That's very kind.  Characters that  I would love to do something with but haven't, is that the question? Yeah. Well, the biggest  are the Ninja Turtles. Like, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would be my... Yeah, that's the last one that I haven't been...

49:40
I've been very fortunate that I've been able to work on kind all my favorite properties over the years in one way or another. Spider-Man right now,  it's not a full proper run on Spider-Man, but it's still like we're touching like all of the Spider-Men in  the Marvel universes.  So it's cool. It's like scratching that itch, know, because I hadn't really done anything with Spider-Man.  But the Ninja Turtles, yeah, I think now the Ninja Turtles are the last  big piece.

50:10
It's got, but it's gotta be the right fit and it's gotta be the right situation.  And,  you know, I think the  importance to me or significance of working on other established characters  is less  for me now than it was earlier in my career.  And so if it happens, great. If it doesn't, I'm okay, you know? And I feel like that with Marvel and DC stuff as well, like, it's just gotta be like,

50:38
It's got to be an exciting opportunity and it's got to be like, yeah, it's just got to be like, it's got to be an exciting enough proper project for me to want to go back and work on, you know, in other sandboxes. But those do come up from time to time, like this Immortal Legend Batman project. Sorry, literally  as I was talking, we were getting an email of new pages  on Immortal Legend Batman  and they are pretty awesome.

51:07
I was just about to find a way to work that in. The way I understand the  solicitation or the announcement, you're combining traditional superhero storytelling with Japanese tokusatsu  entertainment. I'm like, well, shit, that's got Kyle's name written all over it. Don't think of it too rigidly.  There are named moves for sure, but we are... This is a book that is taking elements of tokusatsu as an influence, but it's also taking elements of Western superhero storytelling.

51:35
sci-fi space operas and Westerns,  like straight up Westerns.  Like the pages I'm looking at right now are very much a Western.  But there's also like different influences like space sheriff, Gavan.  And  so it's a Western but with a space sheriff kind of completely, you where I'm going? Like there's a bunch of different elements that we're kind of bringing in here. But yes, there will also be really cool named Batman moves.

52:05
I got a buddy that listens to show, his is Cory Torgeson, who might be one of the biggest Tokusatsu fans I know. So Cory, if you're listening, I think you're going to really enjoy Immortal Legend Batman, especially from the promo art I've seen with Dan Mora's designs and everything. It's like, you know, you and Dan Mora make some magic, dude. You know, we've never worked on a book together somehow. Not even during the Power Rangers time?

52:28
No, he was on the opposite book, right? was on GoGo. Yeah, I was so jealous with no disrespect to the artists I worked with when GoGo launched and Dan was drawing it. was like, what the heck, Daphna? No disrespect to anyone working on this book. you have Dan Mora and he's going out and we don't get him on the main book? Oh my gosh. Interesting. Okay. But yeah, I mean, we've been friends for years, but we're only just working together now. Cool.

52:57
Kyle, I got one more question for you and I think I'm going to subvert the question I did have lined up and ask a very selfish one. How is  it, was it working with Kid Cudi who as a millennial, Kid Cudi, that first album, Man on the Moon, the mix tape, all of that  is like, it's part of my DNA. What was it like working with Kid Cudi on Moon Man, the comic book? It's great. mean, Scott is  super, super collaborative,  super excitable. He and I have

53:27
a lot of the same touch points. He's also a massive Ninja Turtles fan. For his 40th birthday, he threw this amazing party in LA and he was kind enough to invite my girlfriend and I to it.  And there was a turtle, the  van from the animated show was like parked in the center of the like Beverly Wilshire ballroom.  like  he had four turtles bring him his birthday cake. So I got him,

53:57
I called in a favor and reached out to Jock who did this amazing turtles poster for Mondo years ago, about 10 years ago now. And I have one, I bought it when I was at San Diego that year. And I asked Jock, it's for the first movie. was like, do you happen to have any left? Do have any APs or anything? And he did. So I got one of them for Scott for his 40th. But then he turned around and handed me a present for my birthday. I turned 39 last year.

54:27
and he had bought me a pair of Jordan SBs in pine green, the fours. The Jordan four SBs, the pine greens, because they just came out of the Navy's this year. Yeah, and the pine greens look amazing. And it's got, it's the green turtle kind of reference of it all. So yeah, no, he's great. He's great. You're also a sneaker head too, because I think I've seen a few photos of you and you've got some fresh, I think one photo you had like a fresh pair of ones that were like some baby blue. I'm a sneaker head too.

54:55
Yeah, no, I'm getting that way. It's Scott's fault. It's  his fault.  I told him this, those shoes have sent me down a path. My girlfriend  says that they're 10 % of my personality now.  But yeah, you did see,  have some,  I have  a bunch of ones,  but I just bought a pair of ones the other day.

55:21
Like we live fairly close to Cool Kicks in LA. So I was in there the other day  and  I've had my eye on the hyper royal  ones that kind of like the suede baby blue, you know?  And so they had them in my size and they're pretty cheap. So I picked them up. They're my new favorite shoe. I'll be wearing that with everything.  Ones are my favorite sneakers of all time. But recently  I literally have a storage unit of ones.

55:49
can't possibly be like, yeah, I have a fuck ton of Jordans.  But lately I've been buying  Lowe's, Jordan 1 Lowe's. used to just be like high. The dunks and just regular Jordan 1 Lowe's. The rookie of the years came out last weekend. Oh my God. This is weird timing. I've been perusing  a sneaker subreddit, which is lethal if you're a recovering sneaker head. Now I'm like, oh shit, that came out when? Just wait until we do the limited edition  shoe collab for Radiant Black.

56:18
I'll be the first one.  Last question for you. Last question for you. I'm really thinking about the aspiring comic book writers that are listening now that are like, man, I want to be the next Kyle Higgin. I guess what piece of advice would you give to your younger self that would go a long way or even just to anyone listening that wants to write comic books and forge their own story? Well, I think my biggest piece of advice  is probably more craft but business-like industry related than anything.

56:47
But it has more to do with like letting things play out.  And sometimes something will seem to be a really big problem  and it might not actually be one  or it might be a really big problem, but like there are so many solutions. are so many story  avenue solutions. if we're talking about notes, for example,  or, you know, politics within a job or,  or certain editors or publishers or things like that.

57:16
There was something that happened last week that was potentially a really big problem on something we were doing. And it was this moment of like, okay, well,  I'm literally going to sleep on this and like, I'm just going to trust and let this play out over a few days. And it did. And  it ended up in a situation that was then, you know, workable that we all were able to come at it from or come at it too.  But I think, especially when I was starting out, your

57:45
equal parts insecure, you're self-conscious,  you are trying to figure out how to do this  at a high level consistently, much less...  Well, just you're figuring out how to do it at a high level, much less how to do it consistently. And then you're also navigating like politics and professional dynamics and things like that. You're going to make mistakes,  but I think you just have to like, you just have to, you have to respect the process and...

58:13
and I say this all the time, but the process usually is that it sucks until it doesn't, you know, and you just have to respect that that's what it takes. And sometimes you can't see how many more rungs there are on that ladder, but you have to just keep climbing  no matter how kind of, you know,  frustrating it  can get. But that's just the process. So things happen when they  are supposed to and  when you're ready for them. And if something doesn't happen,

58:42
and you either weren't ready for it or it means when something else equal comes back around, you're going to be double ready for it and be able to crush it. Well said. Trust the process. I like that. And I think of that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box podcast. We just finished talking to Kyle Higgins about Radiant Black. All the exciting things coming to the massive verse from audiobooks to animated shorts to films and obviously more comics.

59:08
Be sure to follow Kyle on social media as well as the official Massiverse website. I'll have links to all of that in this episode. Show notes, take a look, give a follow.  Kyle, you've been great. Any parting words or shameless plug before we wrap up? No, I think that's everything. Check out the Massiverse. You can subscribe for our newsletter. It's for free at blackmarket.la. That's where you can stay up to date on all the latest stuff we're doing, the announcements on the movie, behind the scenes stuff on the movie and the audio book.

59:36
and even some exclusive content coming up that we're going to be running through the newsletter. So more on that in a little bit, but you can head to blackmarket.la right now to find the sign up link there. That's what I love to hear. All I ask is when you guys do announce the exclusive shoe drop and collab-o,  keep your boy in mind.  Oh, no, no, no. what's 10 and a Oh, I am too.  I would love to have you back on maybe later on when a legend, I'm sorry, a moral legend of Batman comes out. I feel like there's plenty of it for us to talk about, but best of luck with everything you got going on Mass Inverse.

01:00:04
Huge fan and excited to see what you guys do.  Awesome, thanks so much for having me.

01:00:10
There you have it ShortBikes Nation, that's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out, thanks for being here,  and a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortbikesjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode,  help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

01:00:39
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01:01:05
Speaking of our Patreon community, want to give a big shout out to our current members, including...

01:01:35
Nick Wagner,  Ryan Isaacson, Steven Gamet, T-Mix,  The Wait For It Podcast, Tony Aupie,  Trey Namo,  Walter Gant, and last but not least,  Warren Evans. Big shout outs to the patrons.  And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode. And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.