A Live Podcast Crossover Event: The Short Box meets Comics Are Dope meets Cosmic Lion Productions at Heroes Con 2025 - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 464

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intro music plays

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Heroes Con 2025, how y'all doing today? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, by show of hands, who is attending Heroes Con for the first time this year? Oh, whoa, a lot of new people. Hey, welcome. All right. This is, I think safe to say my favorite. Yeah, this is my favorite Comic Con to attend. I think it's like my sixth time coming here. BJ, what number of Heroes Con is this for you? This is number four. My first one was that 40th anniversary, right? Post-COVID. And then Eli.

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I think you're like a heroes con pro at this point.  Only three times for me though. This is my third time.  Third time's a charm though, baby. That's right.  How many of you  are listeners and  folks that enjoy comic podcasts? My kind of people. There we go. How many of you are familiar with  comics are dope and my man Brandon Jackson, BJ Kicks too. Yeah.  Let's give him round of applause. All right. Brandon, thank you so much for bringing everyone here today. It really means a lot.  No problem.

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How many of you are familiar with  Eli Schwab or a Cosmic Lion production?  There we go. And if you don't know, you will be familiar with him by the end of this. And how many of you might've heard of a show called The Short Box? Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you.  Look, and then how many of you are here just because there's AC, it's quiet and there's some chairs and you need to take a load off. It's okay. It's okay.  I would be too.  Well, look,  regardless of why you're here,

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I want to say thank you on behalf of my  lovely panel here for you guys joining our panel and our live podcast, comic podcast crossover panel. really should have thought about the name. It's a mouthful, right? It's a mouthful. Regardless, we really appreciate you guys coming through and being a part of this.  Um, doing a comic podcast is definitely a labor of love, man. You got to really love not only the craft and medium of comics, but also, uh, talking into the void every week to potentially nobody. So,

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It means a lot to get to meet folks and see them face to face.  Fun fact, this is my first time meeting BJ.  Me and BJ have recorded a couple of episodes  online. So BJ,  is it great to meet you in the meat space? to meet you, sir. I've known Eli for a hot minute, but I think this is y'all two first time meeting as well. So we're all making a bunch of new friends here today. And with that being said, I guess maybe we should give  some quick little introductions and backstory. My name is Badr Milligan. I am the host of the Short Box Podcast. It's one of the longest running

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weekly comic book podcasts. I've been doing this since 2012, 2013. And I am very blessed to have the opportunity to talk comic books on a weekly basis and get to meet some of the best like comic creators in the world. So the opportunity to highlight and put a spotlight on the people that put their blood, sweat and tears into making the comic books that I love is an honor that I can't even express. And to have people actually listen is fantastic. So the short box podcast, that's what I'm all about. And Brandon, how about you introduce yourself, man?

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I am BJ kicks host of comics are dope.  It's a YouTube channel where we talk about comics We celebrate everything we love about comics on a weekly basis  You know a couple of acknowledgments right off the bat  So we've got a guest in the audience. I've got my daughter here with me Hey daughter

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So  just over six years ago, I was looking for some fun daddy daughter thing to do, wandered into a comic shop for free comic book day. And that turned into a comic buying habit, which turned into, I need to find a way to support this. And so we got on YouTube and here we are some years later,  the second acknowledgement. right now this room is as a half full as it is, right? Because

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partly because there is a panel  featuring Daniel Warren Johnson and Nick Dragata happening simultaneously. So with that kind of competition, that's crazy. But wanted to shout out those names. Those were two of the favorite creators of  my late friend, Curtis,  AKA Skippentash.  I like that. I like to think that they had to schedule Nick and Daniel at the same time, because then there wouldn't be enough seats for us. That's how I like to.

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reframe it in my, you know, or else my self-esteem is crushed. But BJ is someone that when I met him, I knew that there was hope for comic book YouTube, but he puts out some amazing content that's very heartfelt, very real, just down to earth. And the topics he covers are, you know, they speak to  a diehard comic book fan and Wednesday warrior. So it's an honor to have a BJ kicks for his first panel at that. Can we give BJ a round of applause for his first  panel ever?

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All right.  And then I want you guys to meet my man, Eli Schwab, who I said I've known for a while and I think he is doing some of the most interesting things in comic books. Eli, take it away. Thank you so much.  I'm an independent publisher, mostly with Cosmic Lion Productions. I write and draw my own books. I've written and drawn comics basically for as long as I can remember. My first book was called Jester Man and it was based on, I literally bought a Jester hat and I was like, this is a superhero.

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And then that was it. And right now I do podcasting. I started my podcast, Cosmic Lion Radio, about when Bodder started his, I think about 10 or 12 years ago. And I currently,  I mean, I have a few different podcasts. I was doing one called Can I Thwip It with my buddy Manus, who's a hip hop MC and comic enthusiast. And  then currently I'm doing The Devil in Detail, which is a Grendel read through podcast where we interview the likes of Matt Wagner himself. had

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Tim Sale on there before he passed, Joe Matt on there. We spent a wild day in LA with Joe Matt.  But right now we're also  doing a ton of comics right now. We've got about 20 artists downstairs of Cosmic Lion People  and we're just got  comics of every kind for every mind, which is our slogan.  that's what we're doing. Can I also say that  I think Eli has a superpower he has not told anyone, which is that he actually has 26 hours in the day compared to us measly mortals.

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Cause my man, I mean, he hosts so many different, first of all, can I whip it might be one of the greatest podcast names I've ever heard in my life. And what he's doing with cosmic line productions is worthy of checking out. So I highly recommend stopping by the booth with  the short 30 minutes that we have after this panel ends. But anyways, those are the introductions. Like I said, this is a live podcast crossover  and you know, we could have went all over the place in terms of topics, but I'm like, yo, we're at heroes con, which in my eyes is a comic book fans.

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convention, Like  HeroesCon celebrates comics and the creators in a way that I don't think any other  convention  does. mean, Eli, do you feel that way considering that  you published comics and you created as well? Absolutely. A hundred percent.  Like I love it. And like, again, I said, we have 20 artists down there and every single one of them is telling me people are here for comics and people are here for art. They're selling more original art than ever. Like my man Morgan, he's 19. He sold  all four covers for his books.

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Like you just sold that first day, first thing. So people are here for comics. There's no, you know, they're not waiting in line for that smallville cast photo, like the last con I was at.  So it's pretty cool. I was thinking, if I brought my own original art, they might actually kick me out and ban me. This is so bad. No,  BJ, you are from North Carolina, right? Correct. You call here a home. What makes Heroes con special in your eyes? You're concerned this is in your backyard. Yeah, no, it really just  it is home.

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Right. This is the first con I ever attended. It's it's the best though. I've been to New York. I've been to Galaxy con. There's just, there's a feel here. You just don't get anywhere else. it is part of it is that, you know, it's so comic focused.  And I think because it's so comic focused, it brings out like the best of the comic community. So you get those conversations, the friendly vibes, like there are so many faces in the crowd that are familiar.

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Right. But some I just met today, but it's just like everybody's friend. It's like an extension of the local shop and just the  vibe that they all have. couldn't agree more.  Audience, how do we feel? Is HeroesCon the best Comic Con out there in the world?  Full agreement.  All right. With that being said, how about we celebrate comic books and some of the comic books that we love, the comics that made us talk about the industry, some of the news that has happened this year, and maybe even share some.

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optics, okay, that we wouldn't share anywhere else. I want to talk about the comic books that made us, right? Like the comic books that when you think about what makes up your tastes, your comic DNA, like what are those titles that have had a long lasting impact on you that has maybe, you know, informed the things that you like, your tastes, what you look for in comic books. And actually I'm going to skip my, I'm going to save myself for last cause I feel like I'm doing a lot of talking and I want to hear from BJ.

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These are the comics that you shared with me to put on this slideshow. Can you talk a little bit about these? Yeah, sure. So  right there at the front center, we've got House of X powers of 10. So we talked about the free comic book day origin, and that's kind of what brought me to the pond. But House of X was like the hook that got me that just kept me coming back.  So that was a couple of months after that free comic book day, but it just blew my mind. This is this is the series that helped me become a collector and reader, right? Like

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This taught me about variant covers and ratios, all of that. I learned the hard way  trying to collect that series.  But it also just brought me further down the rabbit hole. That's the book that made me start a pull list.  Deceased, I'll do that. So  it's kind of deceased  and Marvel's on the Marvel side.  If it were not for those, I would have been content just reading Batman  and the X-Men. And that would have been it for my pull list.  But Local Comic Shop Day.

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came and I bought that DC's hardcover  variant and it was just the perfect  little bit of exposure to all of these other DC characters and it was an else world and so people could die. It was high stakes, you know what was going to happen.  But the heart of all those characters was there in that series. And so that's what made me expand the pull list beyond Batman on the DC side. And similarly Marvel's did the same. was

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I was a DC fan from animation and Marvel definitely have great animation. So I was content to just have X-Men on my pull list  for reading that Marvel's series by Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross,  putting these huge events from like a bird's eye view, a human view.  It just was like, oh, I got to read the stuff that inspired this. So there's that. And then icon. So  I guess online.

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probably  most known for being the Milestone fan on the internet.  so,  but Icon was the first one that actually read.  So Milestone, Homostatic, Blood Syndicate, Hardware and all.  And most know it for the series, Static Shock.  But that book was kind of overpriced when I was getting into comics. so Icon ends up being the first book that I read.  with Rocket, who is really the central figure of Icon,  just her voice,

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the  wit, the charm in that book, the fact that Icon is this conservative, grandfatherly figure and Rocket is like the young hip,  I guess more liberal, like just relaxed point of view and perspective. And they're in constant conversation with one another, neither necessarily talking down to one another. And so to be able to have that kind of discourse in a comic book  and it'd be a girl that reminds me of like my little sister.

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When I  read Rocket's voice, hear it.  What's the name of that lady? She was Jazz's girlfriend on Fresh Prince.  Oh, God. Why would you put me on the spot? My bad. But that's the voice I hear in my head. it's just like  when I'm reading Milestone,  just feels like I'm reading my family members. And that brought me down this whole rabbit hole to the point that I  every Milestone comic. I'm proud to call Dennis Cowan a friend of the show.  I'm friendly with a lot of

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cool people, but those are the books that really have defined my collecting journey in a lot of different ways.  love hearing that. BJ, you what I like about your kicks and your journey is that  I think one of the most overplayed sentiments shared among the comic  community is, know, comics are dying, they're dead, you know, they don't make books like they used to. But I look at your picks and  it's a testament that, there are great stories still being written out there.

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I think in this case, maybe not the best example of like, know, got to go look for them because these are obviously like Marvel and DC and you know, and whatnot. But  I think it's a testament that comic books are still as good as ever, you know, they still have the power to get someone into the medium. And when I look at your journey, I mean, how long did you say you even podcasting with comics are dope?  November will be five years.  Not only did you get into a very, know,  become a diehard fan, but then you also had the second crazy idea.

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was launching,  getting into the world of comic podcasts. I think your journey is awesome. Yeah, let's give it up for B.J. right, let's give it up comics.

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Alright, Eli, I'm gonna go to you, man. How about you talk to us about your picks in the comics that make up the Eli DNA? Definitely, And I gotta respect too, because like another common sentiment in comics is like, oh my god, oh, you can only love it if you've been there your whole life or you've it forever. But it's like you say, even collecting is five years. And that's huge. It grabbed you so much. like, Potter said, oh, they don't make comics like they used to. Yeah, they do, because they hooked you in five years. And now you're leading the ship.

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Anyway, I have been reading comics my whole life. I'm better. No, I'm just kidding. Definitely not. Definitely not. It's a different journey for every person. course, that turtles one in the middle, like I'm not even that big a fan of wrestling, but I just loved like different looks of the turtles. And so in this one, they introduced these like new costumes, which I thought I would never see action figures of. And yet now they have them in.

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I was so psyched. Anyway, so like this is just one of those random ass stories. Like I have this book still. I have my childhood copy.  The covers are gone and it's just like  ratted and tattered up and I have like five other nice copies. I just buy it every time I see it.  But that was like the first comic that I was really like,  all I want to do is read this comic over and over and over and over over again. And turtles just got me forever, you know? And so then it's kind of like that Generation X Underground Special by Jim Mahfood is like,

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comic that changed the way I like  saw what comics could be. Because up until that point, comics were just superheroes and, you know, action adventure and fighting and and Generation X came along at a time when I was like reading X-Men, loving X-Men as a kid. It was like, you know, the Jim Lee era and then all that stuff. But then here comes this book, which originally was started by Chris Pichallo and who was the writer.  What do they call him?  Scott Jobdell. Yeah.

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If someone in the audience will Google that we need a little historian here. It's only it is it is Scott Lobel. Yeah, as the CK guys called him Scott job. I did meet him one time at a show. He was very nice. But I think he owes some people some Kickstarter stuff.  But  so in that book, they're just like literally playing Atari and it's like skin and sick sitting there playing Atari talking, talking shit. Can we cause them talking stuff? And it's like they're just like being people.

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And these are my favorite heroes. it just blew my mind that this is like what comics can be. And then I quickly moved on to his like clerks comics and stuff. And it became amazing. And then Grendel is another book, especially the Devil by the Deed. I own the purple version. The blue one is a little harder to get. It's a hard pack. But and come signed and numbered by now. You should find it. But just the Devil by the Deed again is this like beautifully painted, like more than a comic. It's like this art piece.

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And it doesn't have word balloons or bubbles. It's like just writing and prose. And Matt Wagner is this like glorious creator.  And through his thing of Grendel, it's another book that's like,  uh, he's allowed other people to  see their visions out. And he's introduced all these amazing creators through that book. And Matt  just has a singular vision and a way of  making comics that  it's just different than anyone else. And he's just a dude who's in his own lane and.

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With Majin Grendel, he just does what he wants.  He makes the comics he wants and he lets people  play in his sandbox in a way that's  unmatched in anything. And it has introduced me to all these other creators, like  a Tim Sale or Joe Matt or Dave Cooper or  Paul Grist, who we just finished covering on the podcast. Just absolutely mind blowing,  underground microcosm of  it.

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Look, I see that it's got a four word by Alan Moore, which tells me he at least likes it. And I don't like nothing. So I think there's something to it.  All right. Uh, I'm going to share mine very quickly. Uh, so first up I've got Avengers Forever by, uh, Kurt Musaic in the late great Carlos Pacheco.  This was a 12 part  story that absolutely rocked my, I don't know, might've been like a  sophomore or a junior in high school, but it just rocked my world in terms of like how dynamic the art was, how much,

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action Carlos Pacheco was able to pack into every single issue. The high level premise is that it's a Kang story. So there's a lot of time travel. There's a bunch of different versions of the Avengers throughout different timelines and multiverses. And it was the one time I felt in my life that I actually could understand like a multiverse story and follow it, right? Like I didn't feel confused or it was above my head.  It just had an impact on me in terms of like,

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you know how I looked at multiversal for me it was kind of like the end all be all of like multiversal stories. I was like, I'm good after this, but I think it kind of ignited a fire for more of those stories. And then the middle I've got a lone wolf and cub, which is by a writer, Kazuya Koiki and artists, Go-seki Kojima. I apologize if I mispronounced that, but honestly, I don't want to think about the comics that made us.

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I read this series in 2020 during the lockdowns things like that. was buying them digitally off of a comicsology. Cause I just wanted to try something new. You know, like I feel like as a lifelong fan of comic books, sometimes we overlook like manga and what it has to offer. And around 2020, I would start asking myself, well, I feel like I know what the classics for comics are, but what are the classic, what's considered the classics for manga? Like what do they highly revere? let me get,

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studied up on that. So I decided to dive headfirst into Lone Wolf and Cub. And when I say it was a transformative reading experience, think all in all, want to say it was 28 volumes, uh, Tonko Bonds or something to that effect, but it was such a moving, just a comic book from the art, which felt like was more, you know, there was like a sense of movement. Uh, like it was like reading a poem in comic book form. It follows a, um, a disgraced,

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Shogun executioner who's been framed by a rival family They end up killing his wife. He's like left in shame He takes his son and they kind of go on the run and they're trying to win back their honor and you know Bring down the the family that framed him So there's you know, it's a story of revenge is a story of you know parenting and the things that you would do for love and sacrifice It is truly deserving of the word in epic and it's one of those,  comics and that's what I love about this medium is

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Sometimes you read things that just alter the way that you view what a story is capable of. So I highly recommend it. And last but not least, I know it's probably cliche to say how impactful Watchmen is, but I feel like it's cliche for a reason. The first time I read Watchmen was also me stepping out of being a Marvel fanboy. I grew up in a household where all my dad read was Marvel. DC was almost like Taboo. I had to sneak that stuff in underneath a shirt. Is that Batman? No, Dad. It's something else.

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But when I first read Watchmen, it was like, oh, whoa, this is what adult, you know, level, you know what I'm saying? I  had the same experience. Probably many of us had reading Watchmen, but that's not to discredit it any further that it's not amazing. Is it time for hot takes yet?  I will accept the one if you've got a good one. I'm just hit a question is when does this get good? Watchmen? Yeah,  I feel like I had it.

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Off the rip.  Off the rip. That's actually a good question. I think, you know, subjective, but like, like how long did it take you guys to get into Watchmen? I'm four issues in.  Issue four, I will admit is good. Ladies and gents, BJ kicks first panel and last panel.  I kid, I kid.  I'm you, stick with it. Stick with it.  It's a lot to consume, but  it's a master class in comics.  Yeah. Exactly. Thank you so much. You know what?

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You can't speak yet. How far do you get into a meal before you're like, this food is nasty?  Well, it depends on if the  server will bring the check in or not. They bring the check in. I wonder if it's a thing like those like an old movie like that you just have never seen. And it's like you missed your time for it because now you're already beyond and like, technically there's like probably better  books.

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But it had a time and place in history. And I think you have to almost look at it within the scope  of the time frame. Like nothing was being done at the time. It's not going to hit the same now because I mean, powers of X is like fucking awesome. No, but I like how BJ kicks is this in the comic book that made me.  This made me. I asked you every journey someone who loves it.  When when should I start loving it? When would it work for me? That's my question.

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All right, let's move on. The dark freighter where what's the the pirate story side? Once you get into that black fray, I will admit as a kid, I did skip that.  What about the ornithology section? All right.  B.J., since you've got so much to say, let's move on to our next topic and talk about our pull list essentials.  Safe to say, you know, obviously we are big love comic books here. And what I like about this panel here is that we are consistent Wednesday warriors and readers of current and new comic books, which I think, you know,

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You got a champion. So I asked you guys, uh, what are, you know, three of your must read comics? What are the comic books that keep you coming back to the shop? What's the, and BJ's were top of the pile.  Top of the pile for me is absolutely a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.  Uh, Jason Aaron, Juan Ferreira,  every issue is somehow better than the last and also better than everything else that comes out that week. So yeah, there's one you have to get it. It's that one.  It's the Ninja Turtles. They're grown.

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I don't need to pitch you on IDW Ninja Turtles. It's been really good for a really long time, but this feels  fresh.  I finally can jump into Ninja Turtles without feeling like I need to read the other 199 issues, but also feel like I know everything I need to know.  And it's just, it's good.  It's the turtles versus the world and themselves.  And the art is amazing. The way Juan Ferreira does his panel work, like he will construct an image.

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and then  use that composition to like just put the panels will be like in a building. And it's like the floors of the building are the comic panels and you're reading it like how what and yeah,  it's funny because I yeah, this is great.  Assorted Crisis Events. Dennis Camp is probably my favorite writer in comics right now.  He I coach I feel you. I was clapping in my mind. Dennis Camp.

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The way I put it in a newsletter, he's someone that writes dope comics with something to say.  It's like every issue feels like an event unto itself and  also feels like there is some sort of greater commentary beyond what's happening on the page, whether he's writing a superhero book, a book about dinosaur apocalypse. it's just everything is poignant and fun at the same time. So Assorted Crisis events, I think is the best example of that right now.  And it's an anthology. So every issue is one and done.

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So pick up any issue of the sort of crisis events. And then this next one, this is  maybe controversial. This is Marvel Nights, The World to Come. Only one issue.  spoilers, in case you haven't seen the spoiler,  it seemingly ends with a white Black Panther.  And then  the. And did they already cast Ryan Gosling to play that or something? Yeah, yeah.  Years ago. So that is an MCU movie  I would love to watch.  Never.

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But it's priest being priest  and priests kind of just being a one in a generation type person.  The first black writer at Marvel or DC.  Right.  A big theme of his work is kind of playing with race  and taboo topics and being provocative in a lot of ways. And that's exactly what this book is.  And one issue in I'm hooked.  I can't help but think of that  quote. can't remember the movie. I top my head right now, but.

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Chris Rappriess gets the people going. Okay. I don't know what it means, but it gets the people going. knows, he knows how to get people talking about his comic book. And I think he definitely nailed it with this first issue. You know, it's like, I don't know how many issues the world to come is supposed to be, but it's like, how do you get people talking about issue one? It's that cliffhanger at the end. You know, now you have to go check out the second issue. Well said. All right, Eli, I'm going to go to you, man. What are some comics that keep you coming back or keep you going to the shop every week? I just,

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I'm at a point I think where I'm just trying to just really have fun with the comics that I'm reading on a weekly basis because my time is super limited as a as a person who's working in comics all day every day to find the fun in reading again. Dude, I heard Todd McFarlane say this one time in an interview. was like, screw that guy. This is such a dumb take. And now I'm like saying the same thing. But it's tough to try to to try to find the fun again. And before I start, I do want to tell Bauder how great I love his life.

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And that Mike already backgrounds. Thank you for doing that man my honor  so Predator spider-man and with that the aliens verse Avengers and just the entire Alien verse predator in the Marvel Universe stuff is like It's like I dumped out my action figure bin and I'm like having fun and playing with stuff. It's like so fun I don't care what it's about I like to just but but even with that like the Avengers verse alien story is way better than it has any reason to be

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I don't know in the, the chest or the chest bursters inside miles and it just blows up. just absorbs it. He's like venom and he just becomes a alien venom hybrid. It's like  insane. It's in the symbol really quick changing to the alien. Oh my God. I was so sick instead of the venom is like the face, burt just hug her, whatever. Come on. It's just, it's just amazing. So I liked that kind of like fun, just like  embracing everything. Like, don't know if y'all read the turtles, Batman that like changed.

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I loved crossovers like was just they did everything like Crane in the anti-monitor and it's just like every crazy thing they could think of they did I love it. I just love lower decks so much. It's like the best. Yeah, there we go I love everything about that show. I love Star Trek and and so I just like reading that just because I like to be in that world and be with my friends Mariner and Boimler  and  It's just awesome, man. I love it

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And then  Family Fun is like,  know, Cosmic Lion is distributed through Diamond.  It's really fun. It's a walk in the park to deal with Diamond. No problems at all.  Stay tuned for the next segment.  but, know, our stuff is distributed through Diamond and I distribute the stuff that I love to read. And this book that we put out, Family Fun Comics by Los Bros. Coats, as I call them, the Coats Brothers.  It's just a mind-blowingly colorful, beautiful book. It's tribute to

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Fletcher Hanks is insane  stardust character on if you've ever seen those old comics, but they're just like  insane. Like how did this guy do this and why kind of, you know, like, uh, uh, and so that book is just absolutely beautiful. It's available from your local shop. We're at our booth right now. There's one thing that some comic podcasts or podcasts in general are going to do is some shameless plugs. You best believe it. Can I say real quickly, like when you put predator versus Spider-Man up here, I ended up reading, um,

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Full disclosure, I'm not like, you know, a huge alien or predator buff, but I did end up checking this out and it made me question why Marvel Red Band books exist when you can buy this strictly off the shelf, not Polly bagged at all. It is one of the most gruesome comic books out there. And I think it was like a five year old like running around in the shop, like kind of flipping through it. I'm like, gosh, you know.

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I think that's the one that deserves to be in a poly bag  now a good lineup. All right, my polis essentials which seem kind of bland after coming after Eli  But I have been thoroughly enjoying going to the shop every month to pick up the ultimates Which is written by Dennis camp with art by Juan Ferreri. think I say it for Gary. Thank you  First of all, can we  I think the cover this cover the issue one kind of exudes the cool factor that

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the ultimate line  needed. When they announced that they were relaunching the ultimates, I think it needed a certain level of cool factor. And when I saw the cover for this, I was like, okay, this is really interesting. And every month, the creative team knocks it out the park. They absolutely deliver. And what BJ said about Dennis Camp being a writer that has something to say, the fact that every single issue seems to be some sort of commentary about real life.

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issues, whether they be political,  racial, they be,  know,  everything underneath like the umbrella is  on the table or within, you know, fair play when it comes to this. Every issue is a standalone, it feels like.  I think the Luke Cage issue was a particular, you know,  commentary about the prison industrial complex, but it never feels forced. It doesn't feel like heavy handed or I'm being lectured. A lot of times like

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you got to reread it twice or three times to catch every single theme or thing. And I think that's amazing to have in like a big two comics, something that has something to say that makes you think and obviously drawn amazing. So it's one of my favorite comic books to pick up every month.  I've got absolute Wonder Woman. As you can see, I put it in the middle a little higher up because I do think it might be maybe one of the best  comic books out there. Kelly Thompson is writing it. Hayden Sherman is drawing it.  This was a duo. I,

31:35
didn't know I needed it in my life until I started reading it. Absolute Wonder Woman has a Buster Sword, which honestly was kind of a big selling point for me because I'm that easy to sell,  but it feels grand in terms of like feeling like I'm reading like a real lore or mythology, you know, and then combined with what Hayden Sherman is doing with composition and the way that he lays out the panel, you're like, okay, this is doing,  this is doing something very interesting with the character that, you know, I fully admit.

32:02
I've never really been into, but now I'm like, okay, what else am I missing out in Wonder Woman? So Absolute Wonder Woman is always at the top of the pile. And I'm kind of cheating with this next one because this book has not come out yet, but I think the benefit of, you know, working in comic media is that you get, you know, advanced previews. So I want to use this opportunity to maybe put everyone onto the sequel to Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees comes out in July  2nd.  It is done by Patrick Horvath. He's the writer. He's the artist. I think he does everything outside of the lettering.

32:32
But it was my favorite comic book last year. I think it was ended up on like the best of list for a lot of different people. It is the best way to sell it. It's like Bernstein Bears meets Dexter. It follows  a  murdering bear named Samantha Strong who lives in a quiet town, but she has a secret double life  as a serial killer who goes through different cities commits atrocities that Patrick Horvath  is not afraid to draw in the absolute

33:02
detail. Um, and it's about her kind of like having to avoid getting caught and things like that. Well, next month they are releasing the sequel, which is  after reading it, you know, sometimes you're like, the first series was so good. I won't  lie at first. I was like, but why, why do we need a sequel? And after reading the first issue of this new run, it does, it's not a sequel. It's a continuation. You know, it really does fill it in every sense of the word that the story wasn't done yet.

33:30
So highly recommended if you're into maybe wanting to try something different. If you're into horror, beautifully painted horror, check out Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees. All right. With that being said, we did want to dedicate a slide to some of our favorite creators. I think we talked a little bit about, obviously Dennis Kemp got a lot of love. BJ, you wanted to have a Juan on this slide here. What is it about Juan as an artist that you want to champion? Yeah, I think the way the question was posed, like who are your favorite creative teams? Right. And I love

34:00
Jason Aaron and Juan Ferreira on Turtles. But what's interesting is it feels like Turtles would be an amazing book if anybody else was writing it  or if anybody else was drawing it.  Maybe it's because Turtles started out with a different artist each week. And so it's like Jason Aaron is writing amazing stories. And then Juan Ferreira kind of turns it up a notch once he joins the title.  you just have to, I described it already, but you have to see the way he's putting these panels together.

34:30
in Turtles.  And I feel like Jason Aaron has just amazing voice for each of them. We spend a lot of time in each of the turtles head in different occasions.  And  all of it just rings true. And Jason Aaron is on a tear right now. Also, he's writing  Absolute Superman. He's writing that other book that I just blanked on. He's got a lot going on. And they're all good.  They're all great books. And that one that you forgot, especially that one.

34:59
I think I've already spoken a lot about Hayden Sherman. Bug Wars. you so much. And Uncle Scrooge. man's busy. I think Eli and him both have the same super power. They got 26 hours in the day. I'll jump in here and say I've already spoken highly about Hayden Sherman, but I do want to reiterate that he's not only doing Absolute Wonder Woman, but he's also doing Batman Dark Patterns, which to me, know Absolute Batman is crushing it, but Batman Dark Patterns, in my opinion, is the best Batman book out there.

35:29
Thank you. I agree. Thank you, Batman shirt. Thank you.  But no, Hayden Sherman, the way that he approaches, like I said, composition and his panels, I want to champion that. And I added Danny strips on here because she's a relatively  for me, a new artist that I found out a couple of weeks ago.  She is a  Greek artist, which is exciting because it does feel I mean, gentlemen, tell me if you feel this. It feels like comic books, especially like,  you know, our our,

35:59
New comic books seem to be growing in terms of  global talent.  I think  the online space, the internet has helped us, helped comic books, direct market. That's one thing, sorry. Direct market comic books look great. And think  part of it is because of  the global appeal that these companies are reaching out to artists in different countries and seeing their work online and reaching out. Would you guys agree?

36:28
Yeah, for sure. That's one thing that surprised me when I got into podcasting. I just assumed everybody was fairly local.  And then they're like, you get some of these times and I'm like, how, what, how do y'all do this? So yeah, that was amazing how far it spreads. Yeah. But Danny strips is from Greece and her artwork reminds me of like Frank Miller and Eduardo Riso, you know, somehow had a daughter together and you know, she is like,

36:55
just amazing with her values and  using black and white very smartly. I can't recall what she's doing off the top of my head. read a couple of her short stories and like a Harley Quinn anthology, but highly recommend checking her out.  Eli, what about you, man? You got, you got the coats bros on here.  Yeah, man. Those guys are insane. They also have a really cool book called a dino beast or something. I haven't read it, but it's like literally what it sounds like, like a anthropomorphic dinos  beasting out.

37:22
They also just launched a new book, Emerald Emu, with a new distributor called Powerpulp Comics. I don't know if you guys heard about it. They just announced it this weekend. And it's like independent creators who are like taking their books directly to the store market. And they put out their magazine here at the con. And I guess I heard today that they almost sold out of every book that they put in there, including this Emerald Emu that the Lesbrows Coats did. And I just, again, it's like, okay, let's see, actually, there's two things I want to touch back on.

37:50
been getting every issue of Turtles just because I'm like, I love it. It's my favorite book ever. And I haven't read it for like a while. And guess what? remedy time. I'm about to go back and read it all. Thank you for that. And so yeah, it's just like Los Bros coats like these are just two guys who now number one, when I first saw those pages, they work at like double up. So these pages are like gigantic. And so there's a lot of just detail packed into it. And it's just something I love to see guys that are taking just the

38:19
you the art form to a new level and yet doing it in an unbridled fashion. Like you guys are talking like harnessing their inner experience and creativity to go for it all the way. Yeah. I, you know, I, I think you had shared a couple of pages of this prior to a family fun comics coming out and it was an instant self-rimming. I can't explain what this did to my brain, but it tickled my eyeballs in a good way. The spreads they do in there. Oh God, what did I just see? Okay. Moving on. I asked,

38:49
I also asked you guys about some of the breaking news that has happened in comic books this year that that left, you know, whether that surprised you or had an impact on you or, you know, had your jaw on the, on the floor. And both of you sent me the same, I don't know if you guys discussed this or whatnot, but both of you said that the diamond bankruptcy was worthy of putting on this slide here. And BJ, if you don't mind,

39:13
I want to start with you because I am curious to hear why you chose this and if it has anything to do with the fact that you do self-publish and that you put out comics through Diamond. Did that have a huge impact on you? 100%. Diamond owes me thousands of dollars right now. I mean, it's crazy. We started distributing with Diamond like about a year ago, almost to the day. Not to the day, but like to the month.

39:35
And was like such a big time for me as an independent publisher. It's like, now we can reach everyone. This is like what we've been working for. Now everyone can get it. can say, go to your local comic shop and put the order in. It's like such a big moment as an independent publisher. And then, so, you know, just as everything was ramping up and I was feeling so good, the next thing I hear is like, guess what? Everything is not good. It's everything's not good. It's going to change, you know? And, and like right now I'm still getting orders. You know, I got to order right before I came here.

40:05
And everyone's like, oh, diamond's dead. They're not even doing anything. And it's like, they're not dead. And yet when I call my, my guy, I'm like, you know, I haven't been paid. Why would I fulfill this order? And he's like, I like literally can't say anything. I don't know anything. I'm fear for my job. And I'm just like, well, what am I supposed to do? Because, you know, I just put out ghost man two by Raymar Brunson available at 1290 and 89 in Indy Island.

40:32
I'll allow it for sure. Shameless plug away.  Anyway, so like I just put that book out and I just, you we listed it and I got 350 orders for it.  And so, you know, if I don't fulfill that order, because I'm not going to get paid, those fans who put that order in are going to be pissed. Those stores are going to be pissed because they got to tell the people who ordered it that they didn't get it. So what am I supposed to do here? I'm like a between a rock and a hard place because  my  I'm for I'm here for the fans and, and

41:01
have all these books that the people want and if I don't fulfill it, and I mean, not getting paid is a pretty good reason. But it's like, am I in it for the money or I'm in it to increase the minds and blow minds with comics and it's like a little above for sure. you know, the money's not great. Yeah, can we give it a free life for that honesty? I mean, I don't know.

41:24
I think I speak on behalf of everyone here. It's tough, man. It's like an everyday problem that I feel like I deal with and people are always asking me about it. And it's like, I don't know, but I'm to get those comics out. I'm going to fill that order when I get home. So I'm right. All right, BJ, what are your thoughts on this? What made you end up selecting this as the breakout news for you?  Stories like his,  right? Like,  you know, doing what we do, we befriend a lot of creators.  You know, I count the owner of my local comic shop as like one of my best friends. And so

41:53
It was one thing when they were just going through like, our shipments late, which would happen more and more often. Right. But then a lot of my friends are independent creators and their dream was to be in previews. so it's like something like this happens and it's kind of sends shock waves. It's not just that diamond is insolvent, but it's also like the newer distributors don't want a lot to do with some of these indie creators, you know, and the

42:20
Diamond is stopping complimentary reorders. So you can't even get your stock out of Diamond's warehouse. That's insane.  You paid for the stock. following this story, because I get for me, a big part of  learning the industry was during COVID when DC left Diamond and all that. So I know a lot about the direct market and this just feels like worst case scenario.  And it's interesting to see how things will rise up from here.

42:50
It's been interesting to go into  my local comic shop every week. you  feel for,  in my case, over  at Gotham City Limit,  I feel for him.  The uncertainty is very shaky.  he's working in an industry in a business where margins are very  slim pickings. I  think, Eli, what you said about having customer...

43:13
Confidence, know, like you really got to rely on that as someone that sells comics or makes comic books and stuff like this doesn't help at all So I definitely feel for him that being said I feel like my breaking news topic feels so minuscule in return I think I'm gonna go ahead and skip it. But  what you talking about Grant Morrison writing Deadpool Meanwhile  meanwhile Eli is having an existential crisis between picking, you know, I'm urging thousands of dollars

43:41
Now, I was going to say something about I thought, you know, obviously, I think the diamond bankruptcy is easily on a different scale of level of importance.  But just from  a long time fan, I didn't think I would see Marvel in DC teaming back up to do more stories, especially since it's been like, I think 2004 was the last time they did  something together. So when I saw the news, my pessimistic side was like, all right, is this creative bankruptcy? And they finally hit the wall. We've got to just give them what they want.

44:10
Or is there something more to it? I think when I seen the news,  so was curious, I think they made the news in January at not in January or March comics, expo that, Marvel and DC were doing another crossover event. We'll let you guys know what it is. It's coming out in the summer. Well, I think a couple of weeks ago or whatever, May 27th,  they announced, Hey, we're doing Batman, Deadpool and Deadpool, Batman. got Grant Morrison and Dan Mora doing one and then Zeb Wells and Greg Apulah doing the other. And I just,

44:39
I'm very curious to understand  the mind frame.  I thought maybe it'd be something a little bigger, more teens, like another Teen Titans X-Men, something a little more grand in scale. This tells me that maybe they are testing the waters and maybe  plan on doing more.  Considering that it's just like these solo characters. And then I ended up learning yesterday based on an article that came out that there's going to be a couple of backup stories with more crossovers. So there's going to be a Daredevil Green Arrow crossover and a Wonder Woman Captain America.

45:09
crossover, think all in the same one shot. So interesting stuff to me, but I feel like an asshole bringing this up after that very heartfelt thing. Maybe they'll bring back the amalgam universe. That would be sick. Right?  I'm all about it. About a couple issues today. right.  With that being said, I want to move on to our last topic and hopefully I think this will get us to a good stopping point. Hot takes.  All right. And not just hot takes for the sake of being  salacious, but  genuine  opinions about

45:39
comic books, the industry, the collectibility, all of that stuff that you may have had for a long time based on observations and your personal experience being a fan. And BJ, I'd love to start with you since you already shared a hot take earlier about Watchmen that we'll forget and I'll edit out of the podcast. anyways, BJ,  what's your holy hot take Batman? Yeah, I'm good on double shipping comics.  I don't need a comic twice a month.  It's even worse when it's like a

46:07
line wide crossover and I need to pick up five issues this month to read this month's story. And I wasn't reading three of the books anyway. And then it's miniscule. They don't even really tie together. Just don't need that at all in my life. Agreed. My short boxes at home can't take it anymore. Okay. I can't keep hiding comics underneath the bed anymore. Okay. My wife is getting suspicious. All right. Eli, you told me that you had a good one that you didn't want to share via a group text.

46:37
So now I'm very curious to hear what it is. I can't remember what I said last night. Well, think just that my hot take is did you have at this drink and draw? Only 13. Okay. All right. Better than last year. Just kidding. I just think my hot take is that not... That the future of the comics, even for Marvel and DC, is not getting Grant Morrison back or getting someone like that back. It's giving someone brand new a try. And we've already seen that for Ninja Turtles, but I'm talking like...

47:05
Hey,  maybe Cosmic Lion Productions has some young artists or something. But like really what I'm saying is it's not rehashing the old.  It  feels tired sometimes that it's giving actually new people a chance to like break through is the only thing that's going to save something big. And I think even like signing a young creator with their character and then seeing that independent character fight Batman is something that we really haven't seen other than Grendel Batman. Another shout out to my other podcast, The Devil in Detail.

47:35
But I think like, you know, seeing any type of like independent thing brought in because that is like the life of comics, the lifeblood of comics, the future of comics. We see it downstairs, you know, and we see guys like  a Daniel Warren Johnson,  who has his luck or not luck, but makes his killer books with like Transformers. But then he goes over here and he just does what he wants. He makes his book and he makes like a bootleg Star Trek comic, which is killer.

48:05
you know, whatever he wants. And so the future is, is not with  these old guys doing their thing again. And Greg Capullo continually making just stunning comics. But I mean, it's with like given a new person a chance to like really come up and like destroy. don't even think that's a hot take as much as it's facts.  I feel like I have a better facts can be hot. No,  no, no, no, no, no, you, would too hot takes maximum per episode. B.J. Listen,

48:32
No, love you. Can we make comics for kids again?  Agreed. Like, spam. There is nothing at the comic shop for my kid. Right? Like, I can go to the bookstore and find plenty. I can find graphic novels, you know, slice of life type stuff.  And but there's not a lot out there in the direct market. Outside of free comic book day, which is weird, because like you're advertising the comic on free comic book day, but then you don't deliver on the advertisement.

49:01
later in the year. So what are we doing? I found that with my booth too, because a lot of people come and you know, parents are like, you know, they want to buy the bloody beat them up superhero book. But then if I have  a all ages book, you know, then they can get something for everyone. And I've done I've like, expanded the line. Of course, I've got my boy Frankie Boy Monster. He's at 208.  True. But but I mean, just like having  all that stuff is just gets everyone involved. Yeah, you know,

49:31
There wasn't really good. I had some friends that wrote a bad girl story recently. You check it out. Michelle, uh, Nicole goo. Oh yeah. Nicole is dope. She's dope. Okay. I guess on the topic of kids, um,  I would like all kids to maybe cover their ears. Parents cover your children's ears from my hot take. Digital comics should not be the same price as print comics. All right. That is my  freaking opinion.  And in general, I think digital comics,  the experience

49:58
be better. I think we need a better digital comic experience. I think more publishers should be putting more effort and time into offering a better digital experience. Considering that we live in 2025 and 99 % of us live on our phones or use our phones for almost everything. shouldn't we also be having a good reading experience? to go like this when you change it. needs to have... you open it up, like... Now, that said,

50:28
Are there great apps out there? Yes. I think the DC Universe app, the DC Infinite app is fantastic. There's the Marvel Unlimited app, know, the Comixology,  well, I guess it's Kindle now, is still around to some regard, but it feels so,  you know,  segmented. think there's a room to have like one central place to have a great experience of digital comics. And then not only do I think that the price should be a lot more competitive, right? Like I think there's an argument to be made about, you know,

50:58
There's no printing costs involved. There's no  overhead. Now, granted, maybe you could debate that back with like, well, the price of servers and hosting, I totally get that. But I would like to definitely see the math on that. There's no reason that I am paying $5 for an absolute Batman comic when I can buy it in print, you know?  And then in addition to that, I'm sorry, I'm kind of long-winded about digital comics because that's just how I feel about it.  But  it baffles me that

51:25
there was  a recently a Marvel stamp book that came out. I want to say it was either through Fanta graphics  or dark horse. was one of these publishers that print these really nice coffee table style books  that, know, it was thick. It was a thick book. had like all these great articles and write-ups about like the history of  Marvel and then putting out like these stamps and things. And I really wanted to check out this book. It was a $50 book.

51:50
that I was willing to, you know, I was definitely willing, I was willing to pay the 50 bucks, but I didn't feel like buying this oversized book because I'm being more conscious about the space I have, you know, how many books I really own, how many books I'm going to buy and it ends up on, you know, a pile somewhere and, you know, which is growing rapidly. But I'm someone that I, I've started making the shift towards reading digitally.

52:11
I read my comics at night after a long day of work and editing. It's my way of winding down. And it happens that an iPad is just convenient for that wind down. And it just kind of baffled me that there was no option to buy said book. Whether it be the Marvel app or the Kindle app, I just thought it was crazy that the publisher doesn't offer that. It's like, why wouldn't you want another avenue to make money?

52:37
they don't make it easy because they still want you to buy print. Cause that's like what makes them money. So they're like, they're like, if we make this too easy, then maybe they won't even buy the print anymore. Now.  And I guess to, you know, to  try to play devil's advocate to my own hot tech, which is weird.  I do understand  the issue of piracy, right? Like that is a real concern and I can see how, you know, making digital comics more robust,  but I think there's, there's, there's gotta be a better way to it. So that is my,

53:08
hot take that I kind of talk myself out of. And I think with that being said, we'll end on spam. Give us the booth one more time because we're going to have 30 minutes for the floor. Close it down. Where can people find Cosmic Lion? It is 1289 and 90 and I think in 91 we have three artists there and then we have a whole nother Cosmic Lion, Ithmyth instead of an island. It's an Ithmyth and that is over in the 200s. You'll see the big giant Cosmic Lion logos. Go visit Cosmic Lion. Ithmyth.

53:36
BJ, can people find you at, man? What words you got for the folks?  Oh, yeah. Well, I won't be at this con. I'm leaving  now. But  you find me online at comics. Are dope on YouTube.  I am at BJ kicks on all social media.  That's one to say shout out to all my friends. Thank you guys  for coming to the panel. I appreciate it. Yeah, you know what? Well said.  Hey, we appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

54:00
You still got 30 minutes of this amazing  convention experience. Please go enjoy yourselves and truly thank you for hanging out with us. right.  Short Box Nation.  There you have it, Short Box Nation. That's the end of the show.  Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here.  And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com.

54:29
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54:56
Consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box.  It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show  and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box.  Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chittani,  RC Gamet, BJ Kicks, Blake Simone, Blythe Milligan,  Bo Evers, Brian Brumley, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hackett,  David Morales,  Greg Licktype,  Hershel.

55:50
Big shout outs to the patrons. And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time.

55:56
Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode.  And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.