Kyle Starks Knows Where The Monsters Lie: An Interview About Horror Comics, Peacemaker, and Kickstarter success - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 470

00:00
In this episode of The Short Box.  Where do your ideas come from? Do you have a practice or routine or process  when it comes to thinking of story ideas or is it just more serendipitous than that?  It's more serendipitous than that. I think comics should be fun. I think it should be a romp. And that doesn't mean it should be silly. That doesn't mean it should be funny. But I think it should be like, when you get done, you're like, all right. You know what I mean? Like, all right, that was fun. Let's do another one. Let's do another one.

00:26
Volume one for Where Monsters Lie, which is about a gated community for slasher monsters, your favorite horror monster tropes, archetypes, where they go between their killings, they live there together, they're the homeowner society, they have to follow rules, they have to be nice to each other, they're very domesticated, and then they're found by sort of an apex monster hunter, and it's a horror movie where everyone's killing each other, great.

00:47
intro music plays 

01:13
Yo, Short-Box Nation, hello again, welcome back and thanks for pressing play. And if you're brand new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Short box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the creators that put their blood, sweat and tears into making them. This is episode 470 and today I'm joined by three times, Eisner nominated comic creator, four times if you count anthologies for the record, Kyle Starks.

01:38
who is another one of these slash people in comics. All Kyle Starks is a writer slash artist.  He's best known as the longest tenured writer and occasional artist for Oney Press' Rick and Morty comic series  and the hit series Peacemaker Tries Hard for DC Comics.  He also worked on Skybound's Assassination of Erica Henderson  and Six Sidekicks, A Trigger Keaton of Chris Schweizer.  And in my opinion, Kyle Starks writes some of the best humor in comedy and comics today, but you don't have to take my word for it.

02:07
because he's got the Eisner nomination to prove it. He was nominated for Eisners for comics like Sex Castle, Rock Candy Mountain,  and I hate this place for the best humor publication.  And Kyle is still in these comic streets, all He's very active at creating new comics. He just wrapped up a short, four issue crime mini series for Dark Horse this year. It was called Those Not Afraid.  And he's got two new projects coming out later this year. The first one is a brand new Dark Horse series called The Devil on My Shoulder, which is due to come out through Dark Horse Comics in November.

02:35
And the second project is a Kickstarter campaign  to print the third volume of his award-winning series,  Where the Monsters Live,  which is a Bram Brom Stoker, Stroker, Stroker?  Stoker  nominated comic series about the gated communities that slasher monsters go to between their sprees. It's fantastic. I'm currently reading the first volume  in anticipation of the  third volume  and it's incredible. We'll get into talking about that. And that's why Kyle is on the podcast and talk about these new projects.

03:02
What else he's got going on? We'll probably talk about how he got started in the industry  and probably a whole lot more. But before we get started, I want to dedicate this episode to all of the Short Box Patronies,  AKA the Short Box Patreon community. Big shout out to all the loyal supporters and patrons of the show. You know it means the world to me to have backers and supporters like you guys. And for those of you that don't even know about the Patreon, well guess what? You can join the ranks of our esteemed Patreon community at patreon.com slash the Short Box. You'll get access to commercial free episodes.

03:32
extra bonus shows, and free comics and short box merch depending on the tier you sign up for. It's really affordable. Give it a check out or check it out. Once again, support the show, get rewarded, and have my undying gratitude by signing up at patreon.com slash the short box. And without further ado, short box nation, let's welcome Kyle Starks to the show. What up Kyle?  How you doing? What's going on? How they clapping for me? That's nice. Thanks guys. Thanks for the applause. We appreciate that.

03:59
I mean, we have Dr. Kyle Starks, comics, PhD on the podcast. Damn right. better clap. That's That's right. Don't  check my transcripts. uh Don't ask. Don't ask for the degree. Yeah, don't ask for the degree. All right. got to keep moving. Kyle, I was today years old. All right. Just coming off of that, that shameless plug for the Patreon. You have a Patreon yourself and you do  a sticker club every month where you drop new stickers based on your artwork and design.

04:26
to all of your patrons, which I think is a great way for a comic creator to be involved with Patreon and give something back to the supporters. How's that been going for you? Pretty good. It got better when I started doing stickers than when I did nothing. I do think Patreon works best for things like podcasts because it's something you get for free. Webtoons, things that you get for free to show support, you know what I mean? Kind of like buying that...

04:55
Game Pass or whatever for a game you like that you got in Fortnite or whatever. For comic creators, it's different because  usually what we do is we like give previews what we're working on. Some guys do like classes. I don't do that. Some guys do like really smart guy stuff. I don't really do that either.  When I was drawing all the time, it was kind of easier to be like, look, here's a page I did today. But  I write so much more now and have for a long time. I started to do this sticker club.

05:23
which is $5 a month flat, two stickers, they're like three inch stickers. To me, it seems weird to buy a hat for something I like or something that's like, if I could just give them a couple of dollars a month, that's amazing. $12 a year or 24 or whatever, whatever's fair. So I think it works great for those things. And I think it's kind of at its best. For people who make things, I think it's harder because we can't always like, I can't show like DC stuff I'm working on. I can't talk about things that haven't been announced. Usually, some guys do like,

05:51
classes or tutorials or they just speak eloquently about the you know the industry and it's like I don't do any of that but when I started doing sticker club that's when  it became profitable um but I like doing it it's fun I it's through my store too but I don't recommend that because you do the paint around like we'll do like we'll do like boats so like  I'm like hey I'm like hey I'm busy everyone suggests something and whatever gets the most likes we'll put in a poll and then everyone gets to vote on the poll so like the next two months

06:20
are not my ideas, they're the Patreon's ideas.  And if it's something I hate, I will not do it, but it's not happened yet.  So it's fun,  it's a cool little sticker club to be in, but also you kind of get like, maybe twice a month I post something on Patreon. I'm trying to be more active on those things, not just Patreon because people give me money, it's like I'm looking at newsletters and stuff like that, because I think, especially with the nature of social, they're tangenting hard, sorry.

06:49
Social media is so weird right now, but we still need our communities and trying to find how to keep people informed.  Not just because I want to sell things, like,  out tangents again, like the reason why we're doing Wear Monsters Live is the Kickstarter is because people weren't aware there was a volume two. Like there was a failure in getting that information out. um And I don't want that to happen again. Like I don't want it to be the people who are fans of mine not even know that I have things out. So trying to be, I've had Patreon  I a long time.  I know I started Sticker Club.

07:19
September before September 2019, I think so I've been doing it like five years, right? But in those five years is when it felt like a really useful because people there's more people like there's more people to engage with and that means there's more things for me to talk about I think what makes sticker club such a great idea for you, especially is that Your art style because I mean you're drawing the design for the stickers getting them produced shipped out You know, and it's a solid, you know fee, you know five bucks

07:45
is that your interpretations,  your interpretation, I was kind of like, wow, how does he cover, you know, my,  my logistic brain started going off like, why doesn't he cover makeup with a postage and that type anyways. Oh, I do. I do. They're cheap. That's how I think  your art style  works for stickers a lot because I love seeing your interpretation of characters in the small nuances that you add to them and how you kind of make them, you know, bring them to the, the, Kyle Starks style of things.

08:11
I don't know. think Stygic Club is a great idea for  what you do and for the fans of yours. And I might actually end up signing up. But what I wanted to say on the topic of you're talking about taking kind of like your own destiny into your hands, your own uh career, and making sure that the fans know what you're working on. And that is something that I noticed the last couple of days, diving into your social media, your website, and everything about you, is that you're very

08:40
forward-facing, whether that be on, you uh you've got a TikTok, you you've got, uh you've recorded the video for your Kickstarter,  you know, you've got the Patreon. I mean, your social media, you're always like, you know, forward-facing. And I guess I'm curious to know, have you always been comfortable being in front of the camera or was that something that you had to learn out of necessity, you know, as a comic creator? Yeah, I mean, I'm a clownish extrovert. So I think it's easy.

09:10
The only real challenges of that stuff is the technical stuff, which I'm not doing anything complicated, but even the stuff that's very, very simple, I wish I could do better. When I do TikToks, I try to put covers of comics on, but I can't figure out how to put a black background behind it, so it's just a floating. It's like the oldest man making TikToks. I know I could probably look up videos, but I don't really want to. I kind of like how it's crap a little bit.

09:40
No, I don't. never  in my house,  my daughters and my wife are talking about like speech class, like having to give like presentations like you have speech class. And they're like, they don't do that anymore. And my wife was like, that's awesome. And I'm like, I'm like, I never minded. I never I mean, I know. One likes it like no one. But that's part of this is part of the job. That's part of the job. And, and my thing like this, like panels, we're kind of on that panels before we started, like, if I'm on a panel, I feel the same way about that, that I do about these tic tocs are these interviews, like if I'm bored, they must be changed.

10:09
Like if I'm bored, the viewers bored. If I'm bored, the readers bored. And I don't, that's not, that's not what I'm putting out. That's not what I want the product to be. And I'm the product, right? So I am an extrovert. I'm a bit of a clown. kind of a, I wish I was less of a doofus. Um, I wish I, again, I wish I spoke very eloquently and had smart guy thoughts.  Um, but I don't,  um, he's a clownish extrovert. So I don't mind. I like doing it.  I think there's, that's why it's like, I'm looking into these newsletters because I think there's

10:39
there's  better, more efficient ways to do it. Because when I started, I mean, my career, which is  if it wasn't for Twitter, and if it wasn't for Kickstarter, I wouldn't have a career. And that's like, getting after it, you know what I mean? Like that's getting after it self promotion, and the better you are at that. I think if you look at the guys who are really, really successful, who aren't outright geniuses that don't make undeniable work, who have really strong followings, it's because of that it's because they they have

11:09
a little bit of carny in them. I don't have enough carny in them, but I'm pretty good at self-promotion. think it's just, they're better at finding eyes and ears than most people, because they're smart at that stuff. You know, they're just smart at that stuff. And I'm trying to be smarter at that stuff. What names come to mind when you think of creators that are internet savvy, social media savvy, you know, promotion, you know, really good at that? I mean, there's some guys who go, they, who aren't as, they figure out how to cultivate like a following. think like Jim Zubb is really good at that. think Kevin Eastman is really good at that. But if you look at how Scott Snyder has,

11:39
has gone through, like he's great at it. He's real smart at it. um And getting people to have eyes on things. um I think Tinian's real good at it. ah I think Chip, I think Chip just naturally is good at it.  But yeah, think the guys are best at they like those guys have subsections, like I don't think that they're the subsects successful because of them, but they're also like they're doing it, you know what I mean? And, and that's the thing.

12:05
You know, there's something, something, something 2025 about, well, if you just consistently do it, you can just consistently do it. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. I've been thinking about it a lot lately because I do the TikTok, but it's just like, like my priority is my work. work, probably my family, then my work though, it's close. They're very close. And like, if those things take my time, then I don't need to tweet. You know what I mean? I don't need to do a video. But I do think the more frequently you do stuff, and I think that's true of the subsec, and those guys do that now. Do those guys write those posts themselves?

12:34
Who is to say? Do they have help? Do they have assistance that us little guys trying to be big guys don't have? Probably. Probably they have teams of some sort. And I don't have a team unless you can. Sometimes my daughter, my youngest daughter holds the camera. This industry, I don't say it's shrinking because I don't think that's true. But it's it we're at a point right now where I think it's really hard to find people. It's really hard to find people in 2025. And I think 2026 will be harder. But I think it's because the roots are changing. Like I think a lot of people who used to be on social media are in private discords now.

13:04
And maybe those private discourse have 200 people and it builds a 200 people they like from whatever before, right? it like, well, you can't ever get them now. Like there is no echo chamber with those people unless you're in those discords. And why would I be in their private discord now where they used to see me make a bad joke once a week or whatever. So I was like, well, what do you do? Um, how do you engage retailers? Cause I think that's

13:27
becoming a lost art for the publishers is how to engage retailers. And so yeah, I think all this is really important. It's just like the conventions, like, you know, I know you're like, he's done eight shows this year. like, well,  the year before the pandemic, did 36 because I had Rick and Morty and because I was in demand and it's part of the job being at that table, talking to people and being interesting or charming or having a good product is, is part of the job because there's so few ways to promote that I would say still.

13:55
Even as it was in 1986, I think word of mouth is still the most important thing. The best thing you can have is word of mouth. But it's now where is that word of mouth? Where is the orbit of that word of mouth? I don't know. It's confusing, I think. And I think everyone would agree today, not eight months ago, eight months ago, I don't think it was very confusing. But I think it's going to get worse in regards to how to find people. So Patreon is great. think if you have, again, for webtoons and podcasts, if you listen to it, give them money. Don't be weird.

14:20
But for like me, you're already buying a book. Like if you're supporting the Kickstarter, that's $15, right? So it's like, well, what's another $5 a month? It's like, well, I think if there's a service, which is that these stickers are cool and you get something and I'd like to figure out something else, like another variable. Like, we're always trying to figure out something to be smart and clever and sort of ahead of the curve. Yeah, I don't remember what the question was. I think I answered it.

14:44
I think  I answered  it. You answered it like three times over. was very good. Comic answer right there. But speaking about supporting the things you like,  you know, we're here to talk about the campaign Kickstarter being a topic I've got among this list. I was looking at your Kickstarter  profile and it says that you've run four successful Kickstarter campaigns. You're now on your fifth one, which is has already met its goal. But the interesting thing is that you've also backed over 27.

15:12
Campaigns. Oh, have I?  I was curious. I don't think 20 I don't think 27 is that many.  It's a good ratio. It's a good rate Look, that's probably more than some folks,  you know, that's probably more than some folks what what campaigns  I mean of the 27 do any of them come to mind and I guess what do you look for when you're Backing campaigns yourself as a fan. mean, I immediately think of the most expensive ones which were like board game campaigns board games board games exist very strongly on Kickstarter So I definitely have a couple a couple of those um

15:42
that I overpaid for. There's a couple, there's several good things right now. You put me on the spot with that. I did those, those how to write and how to draw books by the, I think the Lorenzo brothers. I bought, they're okay. I think for someone else, they'd be really cool. And I think they're look good. They're really well designed. Like that for me is like the coolest part. I have a bunch of board games I've gotten. I have comics, but I'm looking at my shelf and try to think of what I got. I mean, but generally,

16:11
I'll tell you right now. I'll tell you right now if I didn't already have it if I didn't already have it Jesse Lonergan has a Kickstarter going for his book faster and there's another and I apologize to them There's another creators book. It's the publishers doing sort of two books and one Kickstarter, which is interesting But it's two different creators Jesse Lonergan has faster, which is being reprinted. I got it from him at a convention. Oh cool. I think he's self-published. It's like  a Rizzo graph Rizzo, I can't it about that fancy printing it is Super good. So like if I didn't already have that I would be backing that

16:40
And there's a couple right now. I don't always look at Kickstarter. I, um, someone tweeted, someone pointed out like, um, they announced Eric Anderson's new Harley Quinn book is coming out and I go, Oh, that's awesome. The last comic I bought in a shop was an Erica Henderson comic, but who's a friend of mine that's like, I don't go to shops. So like, I'm sort of getting all comic news by osmosis and I will re I read things a lot, but I rarely go to my shops, which is more about my city and my shops and anything else. Um, so with Kickstarter, it's the thing is like, won't

17:09
Think about Kickstarter for a while because I'm working and I'm not buying. And then if I see one thing interesting, then it sort of sends you down this rabbit hole where you go, I like that. I like that. And then it's a matter of how much are they trying to charge? Like that's a big thing. Yes. That's a big thing with Kickstarter. And I'm not semi-participatory in this because of overcharging. think like I'm not going to pay $10 plus shipping for a 24 page comic. I will not. I just won't do it.

17:39
I won't ever do it. It doesn't make any sense. I don't like paying $5 and no shipping for a 24 page comic, right? So for this one, it's a 48 page comics. It's 48 pages of story plus four covers, so it's 52 pages. In my mind, 48 page comic is probably $10. Kickstarter, it's a $20. It's $20. like you can fairly charge $20 for 48 comic because that's the going rate. I think that's garbage.

18:05
So I added eight pages of back matter. It's 60 pages. I'm doing that at 15. I wish it was 10 or 12, but the long and hard of it is this Kickstarter is so I'm other people. Like I have to pay Peter, I have pay Vlad, I have to pay Josh Reed. The rate that they made where I'm actually paying a slightly better rate. But I had to, I had to because if I didn't get 15 and it didn't happen, these guys would be out of work for X long, right?

18:31
For two months, they would miss at least two months worth of work, which is I couldn't be but so  I don't love that So if it's something that's like grossly overpriced, I'm out. There's it doesn't matter what it is But otherwise, you know, I got started Kickstarter. I've definitely bought a bunch of Kickstarter comic I should look and see what I have on there since you brought it up. I should cheat. I'm not going to  So usually whenever I'm a Kickstarter, I'll kind of notice things  Like Jason the tour has one going right now. That looks real interesting  West Craig has one going right now. That looks real interesting. So there's guys out there, you know

19:01
Jesse Lonergan is the one he got. He's so good. He did one of the postcards for, he did a postcard print for this book. He's a good friend. We like him a lot. That's not faster is so it's like he does. We're not, don't know. Jesse's not on the show. Jesse, no, he's not here. But he does, like he draws so well and he does such interesting things with the page. And there's something about this race car. It's unbelievable. And it's cheap. It's like, I don't know what he charges. I think I bought it. I don't know what I paid for it.

19:30
I would pay $20 for this book. I don't know if it's even like, it could be 12 pages. It's more than that. Jesse Lonergan's faster. Check it out. Anyway, sorry. We're not talking about him. Check it out. On the topic of your Kickstarter, which is Where Monsters Lie, Dead End, I want to give some background for any of the listeners that might not be completely familiar. I do have the link in the show notes. There will be link in the show notes. The goal, I guess the short, the long story short for this is that this will be volume three of the Where Monsters Lie series.

19:58
Volumes one and two were both four issue limited series. So a total of eight issues so far that came out through Dark Horse. Why the change in uh shift from publication? guess starting there. Yeah, I love having this guy. I feel like I've this conversation at times. like,  have I had enough that I'm going to get in trouble with the publisher? Here's the long and short of it. And this is the truth of the matter. And it is what it is. Volume one for Where Monsters Lie, which is about a gay community for slasher monsters, your favorite horror monster tropes, archetypes.

20:25
where they go between their killings, they live there together, there's a homeowner society, they have to follow rules, they have to be nice to each other, they're very domesticated, and then they're found by sort of an apex monster hunter, and it's a horror movie where everyone's killing each other, it's great. The first issue sold out, every issue sold out at the distributor level, it was a success, it was nominated for Braun Stoker Award, that's thrilling, it's funny, it's fun, everyone I know who's read it, who said to me they read it, said they loved it, I think anyone who's a horror fan would enjoy it. So.

20:52
It sold out. It's very good. A publisher said, let's make more. We go, yes, we'd love to make more. And so I sort of thought I'd get to do two more for issue arcs. Like in my head, I'm like, we sold out. This one's going to do pretty good. And now you do a final one, which will do okay. And then maybe they'll put it all together and we'll have like a library edition down the road. Who knows? But what happened is volume two, it came out a year and a half later. Was that it? Is it because it's a sequel? I don't know. Is it because it was not promoted well at all?

21:22
I can't say. I have suspicions and I have theories  because all those things are true. Like all those things are true. Is it as good as the first one? I think it is. I've had several people shot to my like  almost anyone I've talked to about volume two has been like, I think I like it better. And I'm like, oh, that's awesome. Like, I love that. Like I, I think the first one's a little bit better because I think it's a horror movie franchise. They all get a little bit worse. um So I thought we'd be doing a volume three for sure.

21:48
I had planned, but I had ideas for volume three. I had things I wanted to happen. And the long and the long short of it is that it didn't make any money. Like it didn't make any money. It didn't sell well. So when it came time that me and Peter, Peter Kowalski, the artist who was very, who was very enthusiastic about the series too, right? He's like, we're ready to do more. And they're like, like, we can't justify it. And that's fair. Like that's the nature of this industry. If something doesn't sell, you don't make more of it. Like, it's not like it used to be where like you go, well, let it go.

22:17
they'll see it more, they'll get used to it and they'll start like, you know, it's like a TV show. you could have like Barney Miller ran three seasons. Have you ever watched Barney Miller before? That's a rough, it's not that funny. It's not that good. there's only four shows on at one time, right? It's easy to like, they'll start to like it anyway. So it didn't do well, but  Peter was like, well, we'd like to. At the time I was like, well, what if we did a 48 page one shot and they go 48, like one shots on sell. And I'm like, well, that's fair too. I get that. I think that's accurate.

22:46
I will say my Lobo one shot sold out, but that's also Lobo. So it's a different story and it's harder to promote it's one shot. get it. So, but Peter was like, I want to do it. I was like, well, I want to do it too. So I was like, I think I've done two Kickstarter or four Kickstarters and they were all successful to a certain amount. I'm like, I think we could raise enough. Literally. I think we could raise enough to pay the creative team printing costs. And then

23:12
at least we'd have this thing that exists and we did the thing that we wanted to do and that's what we agreed on. We asked Dark Horse, they gave us permission to print it because technically they own the rights to print it. Like that's, it's creator owned, but they own just like Image. They own that part. Like I don't, can't just do whatever. I own the movie rights and the film rights, but I don't own  printing Okay. Okay. The distribution rights basically.  Basically. Yeah. So Image has the same thing, right? Like Image has the same thing where it's like they own the printing rights, but they don't own the other stuff. Dark Horse does all these other stuff like they...

23:40
They people who will try to sell things for you in terms of media, um, theoretical marketing that image theoretically doesn't have, but they do anyway. So, so because of that, and basically I, everything that I did last year, I hope that's right. 2024 kind of nobody saw. And I did do most of my work with one publisher. Is that coincidence? I don't know. I can't, I can't speak to that, but I, I thought that we could make this book one.

24:10
And I get to put the series in a place that I'd like to put it at, which is a theoretical end, but it's a horror franchise. So nothing really ever has to, has the end.  Um, and like, we like it, like we liked making it. Like that's kind of the thing is like, what a place of privilege for me is that if I like something a lot and I want to exist, I can do it in the past. If I really like an idea, I'll just draw it. I'll just draw it and I'll do a Kickstarter. It doesn't matter. Like I, I just want to exist. The money is secondary.

24:37
And it was the same thing for this. We both just really wanted to do it one more time. And, um, I, I didn't want to give up basically, but they were pretty dark horse was real cool about it. Um, I would have loved for it to do like 40 grand just to be like, if you're the publisher that said no, like, you know what I mean? 17, whatever it's at right now, like I'm super happy we're making it, but it's like, we're not getting rich off of it. Right. Um, but it is what it is. The most important thing is that we get to make the thing.

25:06
I think for the people who are fans of the series, which is to say the first volume of the series, the people who are the fans of first volume of the series, I will be very pleased that there's two more and they'll really enjoy it. And yeah, Kickstarter. I love Kickstarter. I like it because of that. like, it's very DIY and you either do it or you don't. I was just about to say, it's got to be, you said something in the beginning where you're like, you know, I've said this a couple of times in the interview. I don't want it to come off like I'm throwing shade, the dark horse. And I don't get that vibe at all. I think if anything, it puts a spotlight on how difficult the industry is where it's like,

25:36
the first volume sold out, know, critically acclaimed, it sold out and just how quickly and uncertain the industry is. Like you never know what happens with the sequel. So it puts a spotlight on the uncertainty of the industry, of the business and all the things that need to happen to, you know, make a comic book come to life. But then on the other hand, I think it also puts a spotlight on the power of, if you own the rights to your stuff, well, you can, you know, in your case, it was best case scenario. You can take it and take this directly to the fans and let the fans vote. Like, Hey,

26:04
Do you guys want to see  volume three? So I think it's cool to see both of those  aspects highlighted.  I want to say, Kyle, I went ahead and backed the project yesterday.  it's because you offered,  you have a rewards here, but you had a digital  rewards here. Where you were like, hey, you can get all three volumes digitally, this brand new one, as well as the two formal ones in digital version. And it was super affordable. It 15 bucks.

26:31
I could not wait for the digital delivery so I ended up reading volume one. I started that on Hoopla. was on Hoopla. Yeah, I it on Hoopla. I fucking love it so far, man. Like the premise is really fun. The art by Peter uh Kowalski  is phenomenal, man.  I've been enjoying it so far. I am on the Kickstarter right now and to your point, you guys had an original goal of $15,000. You  guys are on well on your way to $18,000. You still got 12 more days to go.  You know how Kickstarter is. There's a lot of time left. Yeah, yeah, I know.

27:00
So I guess one of my questions is, all right, take a step back. The last interview I had was with Mike Del Mundo. He was on the show promoting his new. He's doing a very successful Kickstarter right now, I think. Stupid successful. Like, Kyle, it was insane to watch it.  I  think he had a, I forgot what his goal was. was like a modest, whatever, 20,000. Crushed it in the first 24 hours.  So now they're coming up with new reward tiers. And I guess I'm curious, when you have a Kickstarter campaign that has already met its initial goal,

27:29
Is it smooth sailing after that or is there still like stressors that come about like well emotionally? I mean I will say emotionally as soon as you I mean they want I think I think my first day was 10,000 it was two-thirds of was a great relief because I thought in 2025 getting 15,000 was maybe asking a ton Once you get to the goal I think it's very easy and I'm probably guilty in some ways of like just taking your foot off the gas because like you

27:58
you have succeeded. I think my last Kickstarter, which was only me, it wasn't the only person who did anything was me and Chris Reitzler, who's my colorist and my best friend. And I think we did 23 on a $20,000 Kickstarter. And you know what, I wasn't sweating 20,000 then for a Kickstarter, but I was getting a, is it OGN? And that's a lot of pages and it's worth $20. You know what I mean? All those things are factors for me. Cause I always think of, I like to think of Kickstarter as a store more than like,

28:27
funding a promise. Like, so I kind of like this is the first one I've done where the book isn't done. It isn't completed and ready to go. Because I don't think you should pay someone to make something. I think you should pay someone to give you something. But that also is the nature of Kickstarter, right? The nature of Kickstarter is that we are trying to kickstart a project. So we're kind of trying to get different. But once you get the goal, it's a huge relief. I think there are people I know I said the word carny earlier, the people who are very good at making money in comics have a lot more carny in them than I do.

28:57
I could not like the difference between the variant cover and the normal cover is $5. Like I've seen $50. It's like I don't, it doesn't make any sense to me, especially on a Kickstarter because it's not collectible like a X-Men variant cover is in the same way. I just can't do it. When I go to shows and I buy a book now, now I don't get comps the way I used to. So it cost me X number of dollars for a book.

29:24
you're getting my signature, it's like, well, it's $20 in the store, I should be able to charge 25, I lugged it out here. I just can't do it. I just can't do that part of it where there's little things you can do to sort of fairly, which are not even like sketchy, like there's good sketchy ways, I just can't do it. So I think a lot smarter person would be like, how can we go more, more, more, more, more? Like, what can I do? Well, here's the thing, I thought of like, a few, what I thought were high purchase amount items, they're gone. Like, I can't add more like, because Peter's

29:53
volunteer pages like they're gone. um I don't know what it would be. I'm just not carny enough to be like, what if I painted your name on an elephant side and then we had it as I don't know. So there is that like, how do we keep making more money and  the to me, and the industry to it applies is that for me,  all I can do is make something good and hope somebody wants it. And so how it's again, it's just finding eyes and ears. So as the last we're literally in the middle, and there's always things where I go, well, it's going to only make

30:22
500 more, but that's nice. Look, we did it. Where I know in the last week, it's gonna go up a little bit more. I think, I think 23, I 23 on my last two. That would be great. mean, 20 would be great. That's how I feel about it. 20 would be great. If I do 20K on this book and I'm paying again, everyone, so it's not me. Vlad's getting his rate. Vlad's getting a little bit more as a colorist because his coloring rate was insane. Me and Piotr are splitting profits. 50-50 basically.

30:52
And then Josh reads a letter, he gets paid when a letter gets paid. But when this page, when this ends, if it ended today, I think him and I both would make more per page than any project we did last year, basically. So it's like, in that regards, it's a huge success. I would love, I would love for it to be a big enough success that I had to rethink about how I was doing business, just period. And it's not going to do that right now. But it is very interesting to me that this process I love, I love this process, which is

31:22
100 % on me. Like, I don't know if Peters retweeted anything. I don't know if lad has a little bit. I don't know if Peters any promotional. I'm gonna I'm gonna do I'm gonna pack it like me and my kids are gonna pack these envelopes. I really like that. And it's like, well, if I can make this much doing it this way, how viable because I can do I did. I did a book called the least browse stole my heart for a free comic book day a few years ago. So my gumroads for free, you can pay whatever you want. It's a 48 page book, I think I did in two and a half weeks. Because I could do quite a few 48 page comics in a year.

31:52
But I like, I love retailers and I think the direct market is where comics are supposed to be. So there's all these parts that sort of like, on one hand, the industry is very tough. On the other hand, I love the industry. Like I don't just love comics. Like I love the industry for all of its nonstop frustrations and perplexions. But I love Kickstarter. I think that was a long, it's like, it's not stressful after a point. As soon as you know you're gonna get the goal, it's like, what a huge success.

32:20
I have the same feeling right now as I did with whatever the highest amount of it. It's just so nice I get to do the thing that I want to exist. Well, let me ask you this, because now  we could say you've now run five successful Kickstarter campaigns. Yeah, five successful.  Do you have any tips for aspiring creators who are launching their own Kickstarter? I do. And they are, once again, the tips of someone who's happy just being successful.  they're not like the house. Someone else would be like, let me tell you.

32:47
how to make a lot of extra, how to keep going. I don't know that. Here are my tips. One, try to make everything fit in the same envelope. That seems silly, it's really important. I try to always do things like small print sets. I've done in the past temporary tattoos. We're doing a badge for the first time, like a patch, which I think is real cool  to be like you're in the home of society with these monsters. I think it's funny and it's a cool looking patch. Temporary tattoo, stickers,  it fits in the envelope.

33:15
Because here's why when you figure out shipping, you're figuring out shipping for this one thing. If you add four postcards and a temporary tattoo, you're not paying any more. Like as you give people stuff with value, it's all going in the same envelope. Like don't go. What if we now did a stuffed animal? Kickstarter is doing great. What if we added a stuffed animal? Like, dude, you don't know anything about stuffed animals. Don't do that. It's gonna be more expensive than you think. If you can fit in one envelope the best. I break that rule. You have one tier like we're doing original page art, right? That's 11 by 17. And that's rough because you don't want to bend.

33:45
that's tough. like the shipping on that's different, but the people who are buying original art, they know that they're paying, they're paying money already for it. Right. And if I charged, let's say I charged you 50, I don't remember the prices and I have to eat $30 in shipping. So what, you know what I mean? Like, so what for me? Um, but there is shipping over your top of the bike. go, Oh, I charged them $20 to ship it, but this two pieces of cardboard, it's actually more, I'll eat it. That's just how it is. So keep it that leads into also keep it simple. And, you do the math before, like when you figure out what amount you need,

34:15
figure out not how much you want, figure out how much you need and kind of be happy with that. think my first Kickstarter I'd have to look was like 2000. And it was just because I was like, this is how much it would cost for me to get maybe less than that 200 copies. I went 200 copies of the book to go to conventions. I ended up doing a lot better than that. And I use that money to go to conventions. I use it to pay for flights and tables and hotel rooms. And so yeah, the simple one, keep it simple, fit on the same thing. Keep your goals reasonable.

34:47
What's the other one I think is real important? Oh, never stop talking about it. McDonald's never apologizes for having 17 commercials a day. Don't be ashamed to promote it. Again, as soon as I reach that goal, I do take the foot off because I don't want to harass people. I did what I wanted to do. Again, I would love for this to be $30,000. Those Kickstarters, they're creators just like me, and they're day one, they're like 25,000. That's amazing for them.

35:14
It says something about my career where I'm at. I want it to be better than that. Just because I kind of want to rub it in people's faces a little bit, just a little bit. The Kickstarter is so fun just to do versus what was my last? Those that are afraid came out. Those that afraid of one comes out. I see a couple of reviews. We love that, very positive reviews. How many didn't sell? I have no idea. Right now, all four issues came out. The trade comes out I think this month. I have no idea how many I sold. Kickstarter, I know exactly how many I sold.

35:43
I know the name of every person who bought it and I'm giving them something. And I love that. I love that when you buy something from me on Kickstarter, you're not just getting a book, you're getting a book and some stickers or you're getting, you know what I mean? There's extras, there's extra stuff thrown in there that makes it feel like, oh, it's like a little party. I love that interaction. And you get like this, this labor of love, right? Like you're talking about me and my kid are going to pack each individual one. And I mean, it's not the same  at all, but it made me think about, um,  on the short box Patreon.

36:11
At a certain tier, I'll send you like a care package every year, which I need to actually do. I'm just reminding myself I need to actually do that now. is halfway through the year. There is something really fun about packing something for someone that decided to spend their hard-earned Go ahead. looked like an idea. That's the last tip. Here's the most important tip. If you want to do a Kickstarter. Thermal printer. I use a Vrolo. I love it. Game changer. Thermal printer. And I use a service called Pirate Ship. Pirate Ship will give you cheap.

36:37
Don't use stamps.com and I love the post office. We celebrate the post office. I use ShipStation and I think it's pretty similar. ShipStation. You save a little more money than going to the post office. But with Pirate Ship, and I can't speak to ShipStation, but the reason why I like Pirate Ship specifically is I can load a CSV, say here is my $30 tier, okay? We're getting nerdy $30 tier, you break it down into tier, right? My commission guys are getting drawn, so I'm doing them separate from everything else. So when I put in all those 30s, even the internationals,  even the internationals.

37:07
it will compile them all and it will print out labels all at once. So I don't have to go in there and do, yeah. So having that sort of CSV, which is like an Excel file, having that to be able to load in and go now. we'll go tonight, we're just a book tier, right? I've been signing them all day. We're going to print out 150. don't know what's that. And it'll, you don't have to separate international. It'll just go ahead and put them, it'll go ahead and make their own labels for the internationals. And then you, of course you pay, but

37:36
you have the Kickstarter money. So that's what you're paying with that you charge people for that. So those two things, I, I never, the always the worst part when I, before I had a thermal printer and some sort of  Sam's.com is not the one guys. It's great if you're just doing one or two, but they, don't get that big of a deal and it's a pain. have to upload money into it. You don't like, it's so weird. Um, once I was able to just  like get like a row of labels and then what we do is we put them in a shop, we put them in laundry baskets.

38:05
And then we drive to the post office and dump them in their bin. Like it's so easy. The worst parts for me were like postage, printing them out and figuring out to print them out. You had to get stickers. You ran out of ink. I was running out of ink  all the time. And you're like, oh my gosh, we'll reprint that label. Or do I have to pay for it again? Because what? Because I wasn't using pirate ship or whatever. Rollo and pirate ship can go ahead and sponsor this episode. Yeah, sponsorship. I'm here for it. I mean, everything you're saying is bringing me like giving me flashbacks to my whatnot selling days. So I love the. Oh, yeah.

38:33
Baseball and very specific advice for sure. I know I know a lot of people like oh, there's the fulfillment blah blah blah Listen if I was Domundo who's by the way is not his public. He has a publisher He's not doing it. Yeah But if you have Thousands sure it's different. But like I think the most I've had is like 700 backers so probably 500 physical items. It's not that bad It's like if you have you know about yourself, maybe not great. You have to be very zen about it

39:03
But like we have like one year we had like my sister-in-law's family come over. We order pizzas. You know what mean? Like you just have a nice little fun night of it. All you're doing is this. And just make sure you have in the correct grouping and it's easy. My room looked like a one man shipping station, but it was like a conveyor belt. Like I had like, okay, this is where I pack, you know, like if you can get your process down pack and if you have an extra, you know, family member, you know, spare a hand. Yeah. There is something really fun to it. It helps. You can get some friends over and bring some beers. You're all fine. With that said,

39:33
I want to get back to talking about this story, right? You guys are printing the third volume of where monsters lie dead end and everything you're saying. It tells me that this is clearly like a,  labor of love. Like you guys didn't have to, you know, launch this Kickstarter. You guys didn't have to tell this third volume and find like a good end point. Like it's something that you and Peter wants you to do and bring to life. And I guess I'm curious to hear from you directly. Like what is it about this story that that like warrants this time and effort?

40:02
Because I mean, think it was credit to David Harper. I he said it best. Maybe any other comic creator or artist would be like, all right, well, that's the end of this series.  Sorry, guys. But the fact that you guys took it on yourself to like, hey, look, if we break even, great. If we lose money, it is what it is. But we want to get the story out. What is it about where monsters lie and the premise and the story that speaks to you and Peter? Yeah, I had other books that  came out like volume two, Where Monsters Lie, that came out that won't have more that I did love just for different.

40:31
various reasons, though, they're not afraid, Pyne and Merrimack. I know Skybound put volume one on assassination and six psychics, it wasn't going to happen. There's a world where they sell really well that they do what I would hope that they would do, which is that they find their audience and you go, we're, of course we're going to do more. And even that and sort of the current industry where we are sort of four issues and done four issues and done doing four issues and then four issues and four issues, you think would be optimal, but

40:57
the information you get too late as a publisher to even know if it justifies and by the time you turn it around, because they're not done in a month. You know what mean? Like comics take a while. um It's just really challenging.  like, hey, look, I'm in a place of privilege, number one, whereas if I want to do something, I can do it. Worst case scenario is I draw it. In this case, it is a factor that Peter and Vlad are both Polish and the dollar is worth quite a bit more there. And their rate is very friendly um for me to be able to do it at this number.

41:26
this particular number because for any other creator this number wouldn't work. That's privileged. So we were able to make it happen. Listen, it should have been 30,000, we'll try to get 30,000, you know what I mean? You have to be realistic about it. So yeah, look, I really had a lot of fun making this book, which is the place that I made the second volume from. And when I was like, we're gonna do a 48 page, it's the same for this last script. I had a third arc in mind.

41:55
Basically in the first one you go to site a Wilmhurst gated community, which is sort of like  Maybe where the  like the more popular more successful  Slasher monsters are and then the second one you go to site B Which is a  some more but you also to site C Which is where all the sort of hillbilly like rural monsters are so I like the idea like which is implied in the end of the first volume spoilers is that there's a bunch of these gated communities because there's a bunch of different kinds of monsters um

42:24
And as we were doing volume two, where we're sort of doing the rural monsters and sort of redneck ability monsters, I was like, oh, I want to see the Japan monsters. I want to see the Asian monsters very badly. And we do that in volume three. And I had a plan where the main character sort of gets his ultimate revenge as sort of the apex predator final girl, where they go to hell. And so I knew what I wanted to do. I wrote the script in the same place that I was able to write the first two, which is that I don't remember writing it. It was so much fun.

42:53
And I think Peter has so much fun sort of playing with these characters and we're both very professional and I think we just work really well together.  And it's a situation where I could see how it was viable with the success I've had in Kickstarter in the past to do it again. um I couldn't afford to do this and pay like Fran who did Pina Merrimack.  He gets paid what he's worth and he's worth a lot. And  there's pros and cons of that, right? You have to find the audience and you'll find a publisher that can afford it.  I wish that was the case. We love Pina Merrimack. We'd like to do

43:22
I'd like to work with Fran every single year.  And hopefully that's still something that's, I'd like him to be my sort of Phillips to my brewbaker. I love him so much. um But Peter's great. He's very, he's very professional. He's very good at his job.  That's where we're doing devil on my shoulder, which comes out in November, which is not this. It's not funny at all. It's a very dark, bloody revenge. But if you look at where monsters lie, his violence, like the Polish have a different idea of squeamish, right?

43:49
Like they see violence and gore differently than I do. And so I was like, oh, I want to give him something violent, like violent and gory. And I love bloody revenges and I haven't seen a good bloody revenge in a while. And I think he'll be perfect for that. And that's also the best. When you find the job, the good thing, like Peter and I work really well on Where Monsters Lie. Steve Pugh and I worked really well on Peacemaker. Sometimes it's just like, it's just everything's right. And so to not do more, especially since I've not heard a bad word, like no one's ever said,

44:17
It's not my favorite work of yours. You know what I mean? Like some people are like, oh, yeah, that's pretty good.  I really like this one. Like they'll be like, your favorite work. Like we're monsters eyes always on that list, right? Like we're monsters eyes always on that list and we have so much fun making it. And yeah, like, listen,  in this case, I kind of had to ask permission, but like, you don't have to have permission to tell a story. Like you can just do it. You just have to figure out the way to do it. And I have other stories that I've had pitches that people said no to.

44:47
which is relatively new for me, but the industry is bad. And I go, okay. And today I'm going, I could probably just do it. I wanted someone else to draw it at the time, but it's like, it's a good story. And why come up with a good story and then it not exist if you can find a way to do it. And I think the industry we're going to be looking at this thing, there's going to be shifts and not changes, not like it's going to be completely different, but think there'll be shifts that if you can, if you can be like me or John Allison or Daniel Warren Johnson,

45:17
where you can kind of do it all yourself if you have to, if you want to even. Like maybe there's another route, like maybe there's something that makes sense. Dana's not gonna worry about it, he's getting money.  But the rest of us are like not getting money, so we're trying to figure out how to get money. I don't even want to disclose the amount of money I spent on his latest Kickstarter, the art book of his, but he's getting money. But you know Kyle, hearing you talk about Devil on My Shoulder, hearing you talk about Where Monsters Lie, it sounds like you are writing the stories that you want to see, that you would personally read. uh 100%.

45:46
And I think that's what makes  you such an interesting uh creator to follow is that I know plenty of you who are Kyle Starks fan. I mean, I can name three of them off top of my head right now. My best friend Drew, big shout out to Blake Simone, a big shout out to Brad and Lisa Gullickson who you've literally drawn them. It's always interesting to meet other Kyle Starks fan and hear what's their favorite like Kyle Starks joint, right? Like everyone's got their favorite. They've got a different opinions on things, but for the most part,

46:13
Kyle Stark fans stick with Kyle Starks. They'll probably try everything you try.  And  what appeals to me is that  no two  comics of yours ever feel the same. You always have really fun premises for stories. Like where Monsters lies. I mean, I read the first issue. like, wait a minute, this is a gated community full of like serial killers and slashers. Yo, this is fucking dope. um And it's fun to see like your original ideas versus like when you're working on, you know, like IP stuff, like, you know, a Peacemaker or Rick and Morty and things.

46:43
And I guess thinking about your creator own stuff, your original stories, where do your ideas come from?  Like, do you have a practice or routine or process when it comes to thinking of story ideas or is it just like more serendipitous than that? It's more serendipitous than that. I love horror for someone who loves horror, who really enjoys horror for comics to have a viable third option in that as  a sales genre, which wasn't the case five years ago.

47:10
Man, longer than that. forget how long, let's say 10 years ago. 10 years ago, you were either doing superheroes or you were doing what I would call thrillers, which are basically superheroes without powers. um And a little bit, like maybe a little bit crime. Like you can maybe sneak some crime in there, right?  really it's true though. I mean, there's other stuff, but those are the ones like if you did like sort of a crime thriller comic, like you'd probably be okay. um But horror is like, there's been good horror, it was very few and far between whereas right now, like we could start listing just by creators. You know what I mean? Just by creators like.

47:39
all of these good, like all time, classy horror books that are coming out over the last several years. So a lot of it is that I like horror  and  I will say my North Star is always to make the thing that I wish existed in the world. So it's very often like, why isn't there more things like this? And I go, why isn't there more things like this? I'll make it, I'll figure out what it is. And I'll make the thing that I would like. And then even if it doesn't sell, no comment, Kyle will always like it. I will always be proud of it and I'll still enjoy it. So I know for like, is a thing, I...

48:07
I like watching horror and I'm sure that I watch some bloody revenge and who's, I don't know which one and I go, oh, why don't they make these anymore? I would love to do that. But usually what happens  is I will see something or I will read something or I'll be reminded of something and suddenly here it comes. um Rare Monsters lie, but I know I was watching those Fear Streets. You remember when Fear Street came out on Netflix? Maybe not. And then one of them, like they sort of implied that this city,

48:36
has like a new serial killer like every so many, like a new slasher monster like every so many years. And I was like, oh, that's so funny. Cause they would have lived together. And I started thinking about monsters living together in the same place. Do they know each other? And, and it just turns into it's like, oh, you know, how do they, who's building the sawman's traps? Cause he's not doing, I know he's not, but you can't just like get in the yellow pages and hire a contract. You know I mean? I don't think like I'm a very great story guy.

49:05
but I think I'm a very good character guy. I think I'm a very good dialogue guy. so the story I try to figure out to the best of my ability, and usually I like tropes and I like things seeming familiar but being very different. So there's sort of a shorthand of going, oh, I understand this part. I understand these monsters. So I don't have to explain like every part of who the murder clown is or who the puzzle weirdo is. Like you get it, he's a puzzle weirdo. You've seen him before.

49:33
I like that. So I do that stuff a lot where it's sort of tropey and it's like, how can I make it unique? How can I not make it that thing at all? I don't want it to be the thing that you recognize in any way outside of it seeming familiar. So it's all these little things that I do sort of twisted around. Can I find subtext? Can I make someone cry if at all possible? I love that. If I can make people laugh for a while and then cry once, oh, I'm so happy. What a mean man I am. Can it be a little bit scary? We want drama and stakes, but I don't think anyone's gonna go, man.

50:04
then this thing happened. You know what I mean? And then this happened. That's so smart. And I do, I don't know, we're doing the best we can. I think my thing is always, it's the thing I want to exist. I think comics should be fun. I think it should be a romp. And that doesn't mean it should be silly. That doesn't mean it should be funny. But I think it should be like, when you get done, you're like, all right, you know what I mean? Like, all right, that was fun. Let's do another one. Let's do another one. And I want it be sort of the same. Even if it's not comedy, there will probably always be, not on devil my shoulder.

50:31
probably always be a little bit of comedy because I can't help myself and that's what I think is charming and I'm surrounded by funny people like my wife's funny not always but sometimes she's real funny you know I mean so it's like I think there's always that in there because I think the best things in life have everything they have drama they have you feel something you worry about something it's scary those are the best ones so we're trying to reach the point where we're no longer just like poor Kyle or comedy Kyle or it's just like you said like everyone hopefully everyone likes the same one we're trying not to do the same one twice

51:00
I can definitely see where  X book was me trying to also do the things I failed in the book before. Assassination, aforementioned, is objective, like theoretically a mystery. Who's trying to kill this guy? It's not a very good mystery. So then I did Six Five Kicks of Trigger Keaton, which is a substantially better mystery.  And Pine and Merrimack is about two people who love themselves a lot that terrible things happen to, which is the same if I hate this place. I just wasn't done with those yet. So I can see how they're...

51:29
To me they're similar, but I hope they're all just fun. I hope they're all just good fun. I think at the core of all of your comics, fun is at the very core. What would you be doing if you weren't writing comics? Because you have so many projects you're working on. Could you see yourself doing any other job with your talent, with being able to write and a good understanding of timing and pace? What else could you see yourself doing? I don't know, man. It's funny that I made my first, I'd have to look. I think that first Kickstarter was like 2000.

52:00
15. I know I started making comics before my second daughter was born. She's 15 now. So that means I in February 2013. 2013 was was what 13? Yeah. So I started making comics like 15 years ago. I was 33. I was 33. And at the time I was working in a factory. I was working with a pre press for printing. They did pharmaceutical labels like that. I worked in newspapers before that. I when I was a kid, I loved comics. I loved reading comics. I love superheroes. I worked in a comic shop and

52:29
In the  90s, I feel like comics got very bad. I say that generally speaking, I feel like they weren't fun anymore, which is probably a part of my psychosis. I was going to go be a fine artist. I was going be a painter. I was working at the only art gallery in the area. And I was like, I don't have the chops for this. I'm not good enough to do that. It's never going to happen. So I took a bunch of graphic design classes and I ended up doing pre-press for newspapers. And even that's, think, probably completely digital and probably dying out. It's completely different. I didn't think I was going do this.  I just did one comic for fun.

52:58
just to be like, never finished a comic in all my 33 years, I drew a bunch of comics. I never finished a comic, a real comic, like 20 plus pages, like not like an eight. did many comments and stuff, but, and I was like, I'm gonna finish one. And I ended up doing, don't do this. It's wrong. 180 page graphic novel called that's really thunder. And what, and what I found while I was doing it is that it made me really happy. um Also  probably starting so late and just having a lifetime of experiences and a lifetime of consuming pop culture.

53:27
and being critical about it in a way of always never, always like, how could it have been better? How could it have been better? Was always like, man, I really like this, but I wish they wouldn't have done this. You know what I mean? Being very critical about things, but also like,  I love it. I love bad stuff as much as I love good stuff. Because bad stuff, go, oh, don't do that. Like, that's what I know now is like, don't do that because it's hateful it's bad. And like, that's how know that you're doing good and bad. I don't know what I would be doing. I'd probably still be working at some pre-press. I'd probably still be working in some factory or I'd be working for a newspaper.

53:55
I never would have known that I was good at it. um When I was in college, I was a fine artist and I did pretty well. And I took one year of writing classes and I  won some awards. And as I go, guess I'm good at it, but it never really  sunk in that I might actually be good at it as opposed to was better than those people at that time. um And I still don't know if that's true. But I think, like, I don't know if we're gonna rank  all the professional comic creators. I don't know.

54:23
where Kyle Starks lands in terms of like, they're so good. I don't know where that is. But I think it's because I'm so different and I'm unique, even though I'm not repeating anything, there's a feel and there's a voice and there's sort of a charm, I hope. And again, I hope they're fun. think that's my priority. It's like, that was a good time. More than anything else, I think that's the thing is like, I stand out a little bit. I have a suspicion that if I was me, but let's say instead of comedy, I was doing sci-fi, I'd be more successful.

54:50
I'd be more well known, I'd be more liked because comedy is sort of an ugly word in the direct market. A well earned and it's well earned because people get false goods on funny stuff all the time and it's not funny. So how, you're not gonna pick up a funny comic because you were told so many times something was funny that wasn't. So it's interesting, but I say that now, like I'm 48, who knows how many more years I have in my life, how many years before the industry is over me, they're done with me, because that's something that's gonna happen eventually.

55:20
Well, then what am going to do? Guess what? I'm going to keep doing this. I'll probably be doing Kickstarters. Because it's the one thing, especially writing and drawing when I'm cartooning, it's the thing that makes me the happiest. I'm happy in that moment. But I love telling stories.  I love,  if I can amuse a person for 15 minutes of a year, that's a great legacy. If I can do it for an hour, that's an amazing legacy. um So I'm always going do it. I think it's like before 33.

55:47
who knows like I like to drink and I mean like I don't know  now it's like this is what I like to do and and probably if I was smart I would have looked into Hollywood like I got asked I get asked to do that stuff all the time like I just don't I like this I like this thing that's a weird industry that's maybe dwindling that's changing that's problematic it's hard to find it's hard to sell nobody wants it you know what I mean it's like this is the thing that I like to do and there always be some audience you want the audience get bigger but

56:17
I just like telling stories and I think this is the best way for me to do it. think sequential art is my best way to do it because I know how to control those beats  in a way that tells the story that I want to exist.  Amen. Yeah, I mean, you're preaching to the choir, everything you said times 10. I want to ask really quick, I had a question about what got you into comic. You spoke a little bit about it, but according to your Wikipedia page, you had an uncle named Tony Stark? Tony Stark.

56:46
Tony Stark. Sorry about Tony Stark's that got you into comics. he also, according to the article, it said that he also wrote, I guess, for a comic price guide. I couldn't find any more information on that. And I'm very curious. What price guide did your uncle write for? It was the big one. And I can't remember the name of it. But he had an article every month called Comics in a Flash. remember that. Comics in a Flash by Tony Stark. He had a golden, silver age male business, I think, since high school. And here's the thing. I have to presume it's his fault.

57:16
because my parents would take us every week to the comic shop to pick up our pull list, right? Which was like the most basic, you know, X-Men, Superman, X-Men, Superman, Hulk, Justice League, Spider-Man. That was it. Like, you know what I mean? Like we got like, I got like the most basic things. um My parents didn't like reading. They certainly didn't read comics. Why were we reading comics? I have to assume that my uncle gave us comics because what else would you give your new nephews?  And we were like, we like these a lot. Like that has to be why. So I...

57:43
I blame him for why I ever started reading comics. And it's probably true though. I'm also from a point in time though, where like, if  my mom who my dad worked at factories, so he's never around, my mom has taken her two boys to the grocery store, like to shut them up, get them a comic and they'll sit in the trolley and they'll read the comic and they'll be quiet. So that was very common to just be like, give them a comic to shut them up. And it's possible like that was is that we just found that we really liked. I  think there's a certain percentage of

58:13
I don't know what it is. I think there's a certain percentage of humans. So let's say it's one in a hundred. You line up a hundred humans and you give them all a comic book. Some percentage goes, whether it's good or not, go, oh, I like this. I like this. And I feel like having lost news agents, grocery stores, gas stations, we quit seeding the populace like we used to. And now you can see the percentage in manga fans. You know what I mean? Cause they're like, oh, I like this.

58:41
So think we messed up by leaving all, like not just being in everyone's face all the time, real cheap. But yeah, I think that's why I started reading comics. I said, we're gonna have a comic shop. The comic shop sold, it was used movies, or it was movie rental, used books, used music, baseball cards, pornography. So I had like access to anything I wanted. If I wanted to read a book, I could take it home. If I wanted to watch a movie, I could take it home. And when you're 18, 19, you have nothing better to do than to read and watch movies all the time. So I just watched everything and I consumed everything.

59:10
think that helps you become this weird melting pot of all the things you like. And I'm leaning into it because I like those things. And I want there to be more of those things. Professionally, I did that book, like I said, I did the Kickstarter. I liked it a lot. I used the money to go to conventions because people told me that's what you do. I was like, okay, I had a great factor. I had a great union job. Like this is just a hobby that suddenly I'm making money off of. So I did Ricky Thunder, which I liked a lot. And then I did Sex Castle, which I did as a Kickstarter, because I liked doing this so much. I'll do the short version. The short version is...

59:39
at HeroesCon, which is my favorite show, which is where  we met this year.  There's a place called Mertz. There's a place called Mertz. It's my favorite. You gotta go eat at Mertz if you go to HeroesCon. It's a soul food restaurant. down the road. It's walking distance.  Mertz is so good. And so you're always trying to find the group of people who are going to Mertz because you can't go there by yourself. It's not that kind of place. uh the year that Sex Castle was a Kickstarter,  the guy who sort of discovered me, because I wasn't promoting Rick and Bundy. I wasn't promoting it at all. It was literally just a

01:00:08
me achieving a goal before I started having children or my second kid, just to knock something off this list. And I was like, Oh, you're going to mercy. He's like, yeah, but I was like, you won't even know I'm there. I don't know what the but is. Don't worry. didn't know you want to know that I'm just going to eat like literally. I just want to sit down and eat.  I won't I'll be quiet as a field mouse. And the but was that they were doing a podcast interview with Matt fraction and chips of Darcy at the peak sex criminals, peak sex criminals. And we ended up chip worked at newspapers. It just turned to the same like we didn't even go to Merck's because Merck's was too long, which I knew was going to happen the amateur hour.  But

01:00:37
We never go to this terrible pizza place. And so there's more talking and fraction was like, Oh, I'll take a good book because the other guy is like, what's the best book of the year, which is a very nice thing to say about anyone's book. And so he never is Sunday and he never came by and I like, I should take him. I should take him to book. Like I hate leaving my table. You know what I mean? But like, ah, I'll take my book because he did show interest and he's probably busy. So I go over their table and there's literally a line like Sunday because it's peak  sex criminals. Right. And it's him, Chip and Kelly Sue at a table. So like

01:01:07
It's a line for the table. And I'm like, I'm not waiting in that line, which is an asshole thing to do. But I was like, I can't, I gotta get back to my table. So I knocked on the other table, this row of people, all turned and looked. I'm like, hey, you you said you won my book. And Matt, he's like, oh yeah, yeah, he's like, how much is it? And I'm like, oh, it's nothing. I'm just glad you wanted to read it. And Matt Fraction stand up, he points at me and he says, pros get paid. He says, pros get paid and he gave me $20. I was like, that's sweet. And then what happened after that is that, and this is some speculation.

01:01:35
is that his plane didn't take off on time, which is true. His plane didn't take off on time, and I think he was reading things that were in his bag. He was just reading things that were in his bag to kill time, and he liked Sex Cattle, so he started tweeting about it. And he sold, I sold like six books, like $120, you know what I mean? Like I'm stoked. maybe I messaged Sam, I was like, oh my God, thanks so much, dude. Like $120 is a lot of money to me. And he's like, do you want to talk to Image? Which no one has to do. No one ever has to say those things.

01:02:01
And he basically hooked me up with Image. Image was like, what do want to do? was like, I'd love to see this book in stores, this book that I made that I'm very proud of. And that started my entire career. Sex Castle got me Rick and Morty. And Rick and Morty is supposed to be five issues because they did good job. It was 50 in  five years. And everything leads to another thing I've been very lucky. I've been very lucky, lucky that someone would  stick their neck out like that for me, especially being Matt Fraction at that time, maybe one of the three most important people in comics at the time. um He's just a great human being. He's just a really, all three of those, they're just really excellent human beings. um

01:02:31
Yeah, so that's how I got started in comics and then how I started making comics and how I became a professional, which I became a professional. I started 33. I don't remember when Sex and the City came out, think like 2016, but they closed that factory. They just closed it one day. They were like, Christmas, they closed it. And I was like, oh, we'll have to move to keep doing this someplace else. And my wife says, well, do you think that you can make comics for a living if you were just full-time comics? And at the time I said, I think I could do three Kickstarters a year, which would have been like 60,000 in theory.

01:02:59
45 to 60,000 before taxes, which is pretty good. um Also, three Kickstarters a year, like think about how much work I'm doing, full trades, right? I was like, think could do three a year. And she was like, okay, she started cleaning bathrooms in the hospital, which is one of the worst jobs you can do. It's one of the worst jobs that anyone could do. She did it for a year so that we'd have insurance. um And I got Rick and Morty, Rock Candy Mountain did well for me. Just a series of lucky, know, it all worked out at the time. Yeah, like you never know what's gonna happen.

01:03:29
You just try to do the things, be smart about it. You know what I mean? Like there's a, it wouldn't have worked if I was foolish about it. um But yeah, I think I was true to the dream and I had a great support system and I've been very lucky um over and over though. I'll tell you Matt Fraction, I'm always like, hey, you know, I owe you one. Like I owe you one. And he goes, well,  the book was good. And I was like, yeah, but there's a lot of good stuff that no one sees. Jesse Lonergan's Faster, I don't think that's um reached its goal yet on Kickstarter. Insane.

01:03:58
Cause I'm gonna tell you right now, that book is a gym. It's a gym. All right. I can't wait to, all right. You gotta check it Jesse. You gotta check it out. Kyle, you know what phrase comes to mind when I think about you and especially after this interview is- No, I do. It's clownish extrovert. Well, according to half the bios I've found online, a funny boy is a phrase that is used to describe you. Well, we try. Which I think you wrote all the bios. Probably.

01:04:26
On the topic,  we brought up comic shops, you working at one, which brings me to one of my favorite segments of doing the podcast anytime I get to do an interview  is the short box friends and family segment, which means I get to shut up for a minute and someone else gets to ask a question. In this case, it's the guy that runs and owns my comic shop, Mr. Ben Kingsbury of Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. Full disclosure, Gotham City Limit Comic Shop is the official sponsor of the short box. So Ben gets preferential treatment.

01:04:55
But no one loves comics as much as Ben. And when I told him that I was having you on the podcast, he was like, I absolutely want to submit something.  So let's cue up Ben and hear from him. Here we go. Hey, Kyle, Ben K representing Gotham city limit down here in sunny Jacksonville Florida. Thanks so much for taking some time to be here today.  So you have worked on a ton of different comic properties over the last 15 plus years.  But the one that resonates the most with me personally was the peacemaker tries hard series.

01:05:26
You were brilliant  in continuing  the new age peacemaker character that DC has brilliantly reimagined.  So that's where my question for you lies.  If you had the opportunity to reimagine any character or characters in  any comic universe,  which characters would they be and what kind of reimagining do you think you would go with?  I'll leave you to answer.

01:05:55
Thank you so much for all the amazing comics you make. We literally couldn't do it without you.  And remember, short box nation, they'll always take it to the limit. Peace. There we go. Big shout out to Ben Kingsbury in Gotham City Limit. What nice things that they've said. So  it's a really great question. And I bet a different creator would have an immediate, like three guys, right? Like here's the three guys that I would like to revamp. I'll tell you what.

01:06:24
I feel differently about it than that. I'll tell you why. I don't...

01:06:30
People, so here's the question whenever it seems that the question is like, oh, if you could write, if you could write anyone, who would it be? Is what we get asked a lot, right? Meaning who in the big two we would do. And my answer is I don't think about it because if I come up with a great Ant-Man story, I love Hank Pym. I come up with a great, I love a science adventure Hank Pym the most, neither here nor there. If I come up with a great Ant-Man story and I pitch it and they say no, it's gone because Ant-Man requires  all of the mythology of Ant-Man. Like I'm thinking about those things.

01:06:59
So I try not to think about those characters in that way though. I am a kind of a fan. I do have my favorites. I think there are characters who I would do a good job on. Peacemaker is the number one. As soon as someone suggested it, I was like, oh, big dumb violent idiot trying to find a better way. Like trying to be a better person. That's everything I do. Like everything I do is big dumb idiot with feels. And then when I got offered Lobo, I was like, oh, that's the same thing. Perfect. I love a big dumb violent idiot trying to be better or.

01:07:27
In Lobo's case, not trying to be better. Like that's part of what's great. So, and one of my answers, I don't really think about it like that. My second thing is that when I do a character and we'll say Lobo, because Peacemaker, no one cared about Peacemaker before the show. No one did, which is fair. Sorry, Peter Kupferberg.  That's just the way it is.  Sorry, comedian who didn't even get to be in the Watchmen movie. um Is that when I do these characters, what I want to do is I want to do

01:07:57
the best version of that character that the fans like and the story that I would like that they're in. want that logo, which again, I don't think a lot of people read my logo, but for this reason or that reason, I think they thought it would just sell based on the name. I think it did pretty good. I think it sold out. But a lot of people are like, oh, if they ever do a best of, your thing should be in it. That's what I want. I don't want to change these characters. Like Rick and Morty, I didn't want to change Rick and Morty. I didn't want to change Peacemaker. I want to give people the thing that they like.

01:08:25
and them to be happy about it, but I also want it be a story that I enjoy. That being said, I would love a shot at Martian Manhunter. I would love a shot at Martian Manhunter. Is that the guy I think I'd do the best job at? No. I mean, I did a little Peacemaker. I did a little, clearly Guy Gardner is the next guy in that window of big, violent idiots that I should do, but  I feel like Martian Manhunter has been mishandled his entire existence. And I know um Dennis Camp is doing a good job with Absolute, but I feel like Martian Manhunter has never been treated

01:08:54
the way that he deserves to be. And a lot of that is because I'm the Giffen to Betayis, you know, zealot, because I love J.L.I. so much and he was my favorite in J.L.I. But I also love like he serves a clear role and that role is never highlighted. I don't know. I think that I could fix Martian Manhunter in popular culture. And that's the only character I think like that. There's a bunch of dudes who I'm just fans of. Anyone who is anywhere near comedy, think I have been asked to do.

01:09:24
Deadpool, you know what mean? Like, I don't know why wouldn't I? So anyone who's a little bit funny, anyone who's little bit silly, Nort, like we'd love to do something with Nort.  D-Man is maybe my favorite,  not, not hyperbolic, not a bit like I love D-Man. I'm a big Grunwald fan. And I think what he did with D-Man is so interesting and so and it's done in a way that no one cares. But if you read like D-Man's great, he's a great dude. um Even from the burn thing stuff when he first appeared.

01:09:54
There's skies like that. I always thought the little guys, just like Gunn, you'd the little guys that no one cared about. Because generally speaking, they get to be more of a character and more sort of a niche character and no one messes with them. They're allowed to be more human and that makes them more interesting. I said leapfrog earlier because I had Spider-Man, that Spider-Man run, which was terrible. But at one point, just this kid gets the leapfrog suit. Do you remember this? It's like a redheaded kid found the villain leapfrog suit and he's like, I'm gonna be a good guy. All I can do is jump. You know what I mean? All you can do is jump, kid. I guess you could kick good.

01:10:23
But he's like, it's just this kid, like I see that and I go, oh, I see a lot of potential because I think it's more relatable because those characters almost always seem to be more human. And if you look at like Suicide Squad with James Gunn, he took characters like, we'll say Javelin, who none of us ever cared about. Maybe there's one Javelin fan, but I doubt it. And in just a little bit, just by letting him be a real person, go, oh, Javelin's kind of cool. You know what I mean? Like Rocket Raccoon's a thousand times, no offense to Minola, and I can't remember who the writer was on that original run. Because no one cares.

01:10:53
And he's like, I look him this full life and I think you can do that more with the little guys. So I always liked the little guys, but if it was a big guy, probably Martian Manhunter. It's because I think he deserves better. Well said. you know what? Speaking about that, I think I recently seen a clip or interview with James Young where they were asking him like his favorite, you know, like C-list character.  And he mentioned that, uh you know, Polka Dot Man was in the Suicide Squad movie that he directed. And he said something to the effect that he

01:11:21
like went on Google and typed in like, is the worst DC character out there? And polka dot man was one of the, uh, the, results. You know, it was like, you know, it was like condiment King and polka dot man. And he's like, he's like condiment King can't do it. Like, you know, it's a great, you know, which isn't James gun. It was different, but like kite man, like look at the change that I can't because it, know, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha kite man. No one cares. But dude, if you give him, if you give him an ounce of pathos, that's a real dude suddenly. And the reason why we really love.

01:11:52
I say this broadly and I think, and I don't want to disparage the big two, but I think they have moved too far away from pushing character like they did say in the eighties is that the reason why we love Peter Parker is not because he has a cool power and a cool suit, right? We don't love Tony Stark's because he has a cool suit and he's rich.  we like Tony's, he's different now, but my Tony Stark's not my uncle was always the guy who was his own worst enemy who was trying so hard to overcome that who had his demons, but they would never get in the way of him doing the right thing.

01:12:21
And also, he's lying about it. He's trying to keep a facade on top of it. He has a lie he's trying to keep real. That's what we like. It's not who they fought or... um So those little characters, it's like they always get to do that. They always get to just be that little thing, our nothings at all, our complete nothings, right? And I think that's why guys like James Gunn, who are really story guys, and I'm a story guy, those are the ones we like, because we see the potential, because that potential hasn't been touched. So know, Kahneman King was number one, and he was like...

01:12:49
Well, there's no way there's no way on that one. I didn't mean complete. Yeah. We talked about before we hit record some of your convention appearances. You've already been to eight conventions this year. You got three more lined up for the rest of the year. And then it got me thinking about, well, you brought up how we first met this year at Heroes Con. I got a super sick Slick Rick commission sketch, which I absolutely fucking love and adore. Paid a very fair price for it. So if you're going to be at New York Comic Con.

01:13:18
or what are some the other ones? Memphis, Rose City. Those are next ones. much. Highly recommend getting a sketch and or commission from uh Kyle. Please. This is a long one to wind up. Bear with me. But Kyle, on your website, you have a store and I spent 10 bucks today buying two more digital download comics. One of them was called Commission Lines, the under drawings of Kyle Starks, which if I'm to explain this correctly, this is a uh collection of like

01:13:45
pre-commission rough drawing sketches that you've done throughout the years, which I think is one, was five bucks. was like, absolutely. It's a digital comic. Love that. ah With you being a uh convention veteran at this point and also having done so many commissions, what are some of your favorite commissions that you've done? And I'm assuming, and it's safe to say that people like to test how crazy they can go with some of the requests. You being like  the funny guy, the comedic guy.

01:14:13
Did you get zany or  outlandish requests for commissions? What's some of the craziest ones you've gotten? The craziest ones I say no to.  I do feel like there are people who are like, it is a weird test, but not as much anymore. There's like certain characters I get asked to draw a lot that I don't understand why they ask me,  notably Dr.  Doom. I don't think I do a very good Dr. Doom, but I get asked a lot. Thing, I get asked a lot. Things hard,  but I think I do okay with them.

01:14:43
I think my favorites are maybe on the site or on my promotion. I've done a bunch of X-Men stuff. I've been doing a lot of Nightcrawler, and I like Nightcrawler. I like to draw Nightcrawler. He's fun. um Craziest, whenever people ask me about that, I think about the ones where people ask me to do stuff that were next level porn. They were just adjacent to porn. And I always think of someone who's like, would you draw Summer from plays that I've done a billion Rick and Morty commissions.  Could you draw Summer as a cat lady? And I was like, nope.

01:15:13
Like that's not my job. That's someone you can find someone that that's her job. It's not my job. So can't think of any crazy ones. Those are always sometimes people are like, we do mashup where it's like this, because they kind of draw Rick and Morty adjacent to like we have very similar aesthetics, which is why they asked me to do the book, which is why I did a good job in the book for so long. Sometimes like, you draw this character as Rick and Morty? I that's kind of fun. I'd rather I'd rather draw Kyle Stark's things. Now I've got a lot of fun ones. It'd be easier for me to do the ones like these weren't super fun. And even though I can't think of because they're few and far between.

01:15:42
If it's something I don't want to do, I just will say I'd rather not do that. I don't think I'd do a good job or because I do have, like you said earlier, like I think like my aesthetic for that type of thing, it works a certain way. Like I like a character or however many characters on a blank background. And I think that's why my stickers look good. Cause that's basically what they are. It's just the figure. I think it's interesting to see me do a depiction. And I think they always look a little fun and a little happy. Even if they're not fun or happy. Like I always draw daredevil happy always. My daredevil is happy. He's not going through it today.

01:16:12
Maybe yesterday and maybe tomorrow. You're drawing Daredevil from the Mark Waid run where he had a pretty good life. He's okay. Well today, or know what, maybe he saw like some birds having sex or something he thought was funny. I don't know. um He's having a good day today. ah So like that's my preference. Sometimes people will be like, well you do this very complicated thing. like, it won't look good if I do it. And I having that awareness also, I don't charge that much. So it's like, I'm not taking an arm or leg.  I think it's a very fair price for what you get. And they're fun. I can't think of a crazy one.  They're all like, I haven't.

01:16:41
They're all over the internet. you can find, you can find them if you want. Look, I'm telling you, if you got five bucks to spare this digital collection of Kyle Star, it's called commission lines. It's on his website in the store. Best five bucks I've spent all month. I will say that wholeheartedly. I'm actually like kind of scrolling through the, book while I'm chatting. And I mean, but one of my favorite ones speaking about, you know, podcast, uh, do one of Brad and Lisa Gullickson from comic book couples counseling. That's awesome. I didn't look really, I didn't came out really nice.

01:17:10
I think I'm supposed to draw their bird for him. I keep forgetting. Maybe I put that on the list. I put that on the list. I want to do a pitch. So I have a Gumroad, which is gumroad.com. think Kyle starts, you put Gumroad, Kyle starts to come up. You can get all of those things. can get commission. You're like, I just paid $5. You can get commission lines. can be the Louise Sprouse I mentioned earlier. Almost everything I've done digitally for $10. You can get everything I've done. I think commission lines is five on there too, but you can get everything for $10. I have other digital stuff on my site too.

01:17:40
which I like a lot. think there's a thing with Stabby using my avatar. But you can get like, Life of the Ricky Thunder for 10, like it's in that package. Like it's for me, it's older stuff. It's stuff from when I was starting and then Commissioned Lions and like Louise Sprouts was $10. You get a ton of stuff. So it's on Gumroad. Gumroad's cool. I like Gumroad. think we should, we should be doing more digital stuff in a smarter way. And that's what I appreciate about you is that you're looking out for

01:18:08
Folks like me that have way too much shit in their house already. And I'm like, you know, try,  I'll support if there's a digital tier or reward or version. But one of the last questions I got  as a comic convention veteran, what advice do you have for existing and aspiring comic creators that, you know, know they need to be at conventions. They need to have that, that FaceTime with comic fans, et cetera, and all of that. Like, what advice do you have for them? Conventions are tough, man. When I did,

01:18:37
When I did Legend of Ring of Thunder, which is my first book, now I use the profits from my Kickstarter to pay for the tables and the hotels. So I was always working from a place of everything's profit, right? I always did pretty well and I only had two things then. I think the most important things, especially when you're starting out and whenever I have a slow show, because I did Rick and Morty for five years, I'm in a different place than I was when I started, I go, you should remember who you were five years ago. Because I'm mad, I'm mad at the show because it's slow. I say, it's your fault, it's kind of your fault that it's not.

01:19:07
I think the most important things are  make it look like a store as much as you can. Have an interesting layout. You gotta have a banner or something that has your name on it. um It has to look interesting and you have to engage as many people as possible. But you need to do it in a sincere and enthusiastic way, which is to say, if you made something you love, you're excited to talk about it. You know what I mean? Like there's even now, it used to be when people walked by, because Legend of Ricky Thunder was a wrestling comic, I'd be like, the wrestling show, but hey, you like wrestling, you wanna talk about wrestling? I have a wrestling comic. Let me tell you about it.

01:19:36
cool because it's this dumb idea and I think it's fun and maybe you like your wrestling grand. And I would do that with everybody and that version works like that carny guy, that carny promo guy works. If you're the guy that goes, hey, do you like reading? It's a weird thing.  it's a weird like,  it looks like you're trying to like hassle them. It's different but engaging people. Listen, you made something great. You should be proud of it. And you made something that's meant to be consumed. I assume my stuff is. My stuff's meant to be read.

01:20:05
and enjoy it and I want people to read and enjoy it because I made this thing that I think is really fun and enjoyable. So I think that's the thing and that's that is super hard. mean, social stuff is it's easier to do a Kickstarter. It's you know what mean? It's easier to do these other things because they're just things you're doing in your like in your unfinished basement in Indiana. It's easier to do those things and be like, oh, you know what? You have to meet other people. But instead, the nature of this industry is there's only a couple of forms of promotion. There only a couple of forms of marketing that absolutely exist.

01:20:34
The retailers sell it for you. That's hard. Like that's hard. We're all trying to get retailers to like us. We're  all trying really hard. You go on podcasts and you hope that you do a good job because it also is a very social interaction.  how I might, your hope is people go, Oh, he seemed cool.  If he's cool, his work's probably cool. Like, yeah, if you like this, for whatever reason, you're going to like my books. And it's the same in a show. The show is the other form of marketing is that you have to hand sell it there. And I think that's a talent.

01:21:02
If for people who just artists, there's ways to just be more of an artist and like  more of performative thing. Like I'm drawing and can you see me drawing and I pull art. um But as like a storyteller, you have to sell the work and it's hard.  And then the part of it, like now it's like I do shows and people are like, oh, you don't have this book. And I'm like, man, I got to make choices.  I got to make choices at these things and I never make the right choice. And this year's, these last, these last couple months are interesting because like it's so, like I used to just get cops.

01:21:31
because I was doing image books or doing kickstarters. I always had one book I could bring a ton of. And now it's like, well, they cost me so much. It's hard for me to get books. I have to make choices. And I think for New York, it's going to be a lot of like Rock Candy Mountain, Old Head, I'm doing an Ashcan for Wrestle Heist and a little bit of the other stuff because I can bring a lot of Old Head to New York because I have it. I can bring a lot of Rock I can't bring a lot of We're Monsters like that. They cost me X dollars a book and I don't have it. Yeah.

01:21:58
So yeah, the thing is like, really want my table to feel like a store with a really interesting owner. You know what I mean? Like I want that to be the experience where it's like, oh, that guy was cool. Yeah, he had a nice little shop. You know what I mean? Like I think that's the experience I want people to have. And it's curated with great fun, good things that people would want, hopefully. You know, speaking about that store approach, you know, it as if like someone's walking into a really nice store, you're the store owner and you're selling things. You brought up Matt Kent, you know, being a good friend of yours.

01:22:27
Matt Kent at not this year's HeroesCon, I think uh the one prior, his setup was  crazy. It really felt like you walking into some weird oddities store.  Matt,  again, he's my very good friend. um We've kind of briefly had this conversation, and he went more, and he wants to do, he won't do it now because it's too much work and he doesn't need it. But he had his idea for something that he would have done. like, I wonder if it was like this. I'm like, that's really cool. We've had this talk, and again, with social media, uh

01:22:56
the connection to the audience and finding an audience and what is comics and like if we're musicians, right? And the comic is the album is a convention, the performance. And if it's the performance, should we be doing something? And Matt Kent was like, I'm bored and I want to do something. So he made this. He's doing like typewriter commissions. And I kind of joke, especially when they're slow. I was like, what if what if I was doing like a bit the whole time? Is here? What if this was a candy shop? I candy. You know what mean?

01:23:25
and I have the hat on and I'm like, welcome to comics in camp. But here's the thing, that's funny once, you know what I mean? Because I don't want to sell candy, I want to sell comic books, I want to my comic books. But we think about it, if this is the performance, and we're always kind of shawm it, like, well, it doesn't really, like, what if one did, I'm saying things and people are gonna be like, I can say it because I know it won't work. What if I did a commission happy hour every day? What if I did a commission happy hour and it's like, listen, from this time, from three to four, I will do $10 commissions as many as I can do in an hour.

01:23:55
It's interesting, right? But this makes it a performance. It means you come to my table at a certain time. So I think everyone's going to steal that from me now. Remember, said it first. I don't think it'll work though, because the people would have to remember what time it is. There's all these issues, right?  There's issues that we both think about that, which is why Matt did that. And I've seen other people do similar interesting things. um Really, like you fill out forms and put them in a box and say, that's all fun. um But I know he's like, what if someone you had like an office, if you were actually coming in and sitting down, it's like a

01:24:24
like just one at a time. You only come in one at a time.  It's interesting, but the truth of it is, is that really the book is the performance. You know what I mean? Really the book is the performance, it's not the album. And meeting us is just meeting us, is really the truth. But that being said, I think for, if you're a me and you know I'm the product as much as my books are,  I want people to enjoy seeing me at shows. I want people to want to come see me at shows and talk to me about wrestling or talk to me about basketball.

01:24:53
Art talked to me about this character that only them and I like. Like, I love that. Art talked about my work. He's, what an amazing thing that would be.  But I also, you need to exist in conventions, which is the hardest part. You want to exist in a way that not just people who like comics and you, the people just walking by will go, oh, and that's the hardest part. Like, that's really the hardest thing. Until you're a big enough name that just your name is good enough, you have to, having something in between is the hardest part. Having Rick and Morty was the best thing that ever happened to me at conventions, 100%.

01:25:22
Cause everybody wanted it. Everybody,  like grandmas wanted it cause they knew their grandson liked it. Um, and if you don't have that, if you don't have four batmans, if you don't have four spider-mans, then you know what I mean? Like, look, did spy, I'm the spider-man. Like it's tough. It's tough. So you gotta kind of yap at him a little bit. You gotta give him the yapping. Kyle,  I, when we started this,  uh, interview  and you had Dr. Kyle Starks, PH, comic PhD after your name, I was questioning the validity of that title, but I can say after

01:25:51
After almost two hours,  yeah, I believe that you've got this comic thing uh on lock.  Oh, good. And with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast, and we just finished talking to Kyle Starks about his life, career, and his new book slash Kickstarter campaign, Where Monsters Lie, Dead End. You've also got Devil on My Shoulder, which will come out through Dark Horse on November 26th. I have links to both of those in the show notes, so if you want to support the Kickstarter campaign, which you absolutely should, we just spent two hours talking about how much of a great deal.

01:26:20
and value and how much passion and love Kyle puts into his projects. So support the Kickstarter campaign pick up devil on my shoulder. Number one, when it comes out, I have links to Kyle's website as well as social media and the show notes. Do yourself a favor. Give those a follow and like the follow and stay up to date with what Kyle's got going on. Kyle, this has been great. Do you have any parting words or shameless plug before we wrap up? Yeah, Kickstarter, where monsters lie dead end. We have a bunch of catch up options if you've never read where monsters lie. Also Hoopla.

01:26:48
I think everything I have is on Hoopla. We love that. If I did a good job and you read it on Hoopla for not free, because you're supporting your library, which we also love. Damn right. If I did a good book, if I did a good enough, hopefully you want to own a copy of it. That's like the wish, right? Or a commission of a character. um I think if it's good, we want to own a piece of it. I think that's the nature of us as fans. So I love Hoopla. I support that wildly. Check it out. Like I said, at Gumber, I pay what you want options on things. Like don't pay anything. That's fine. That's why it's pay what you want. That's the trick. But I think if you like it, you'll support those creators.

01:27:17
Just like we're saying at the very beginning with like Patreon, like this is a free service you do as a podcast. They don't have to pay to get it. Well, reward them for doing something nice. think of Hoopla as a great way to read a lot of work. If I like something and I read a lot of stuff on Hoopla, I get it because I want to own it. I want to read it later and I want to support them because I liked it. So we support Hoopla. I'm the Kyle Starks everywhere except for Patreon. We're on Kyle Starks, $5 sticker club, two sticker clubs a month. We're doing this Kickstarter. You can catch up real easy. We have real cheap...

01:27:46
PDF or digital whatever if you've never read it and most people didn't read volume 2 so don't feel bad We'll get you caught up. It's gonna a lot of fun We're making fun comics good. If you like any of those you like other stuff. We got a of good stuff Dude, you gotta let me you gotta tell me to stop talking at some point. I'll just keep going forever You are a a scholar obviously in a gentleman as well. I can't wait to see a New York Comic Con Yeah, I saw all of that in the show notes listeners. Thank you so much for hanging out. You guys are great. Here's my outro I'll catch you around next week probably alright peace

01:28:13
There you have it, Shortbox Nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode,  help us spread the word. Share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

01:28:41
or wherever you get your podcast. takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes,  and in some cases, free comic books,  consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box.  It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show  and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box.

01:29:07
Speaking of our Patreon community, want to give a big shout out to our current members, including...  Marcy Gamet, BJ Kicks, Blake Simone,  Blythe Milligan,  Bo Evers,  Brian Brumleaf, Chad Landenberger, Chris Hacker, David Morales,  Greg Ligteich,  Hershel,  Mac Jacobson,  issue number three Brad,  Jay Sinner,  Jeff Fremid, Jerome Cabanatan, Jose Sepulveda,  Justin McCoy, Corey Torgeson,  Matt Godwin, Amanda Maron, Melissa Burton.

01:29:36
Nick Wagner,  Ryan Isaacson, Steven Ginn,  T-Mix,  The Wait For It Podcast, Tony Aupie,  Trey Namo, Walter Gant,  and last but not least,  Warren Evans. Big shout outs to the patrons.  And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode.  And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.