Inside Hoopla: How Digital Comics Reach Your Library with Catherine Zappa, VP of Digital Acquisition at Hoopla Digital - The Short Box Podcast ep. 472

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intro music plays 

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Yo, Short-Box Nation, hello again, welcome back, and thanks for pressing play today. If you're brand new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears in them making them.  This is episode 472, and today I'm talking about one of my favorite apps to read comics on. I'm talking about Hoopla.

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a digital service that has thousands of digital comics, manga, and graphic novels from just about every publisher you can think of. Marvel, DC, Image, Boom Studios,  name a publisher,  and chances are they're probably on Hoopla.  Now, unless you've been listening to the podcast on mute these last couple of years,  you know I ride for Hoopla. Hell, it was a shared topic of interest just a few episodes back when I talked with Kyle Starks.  Even Kyle Starks,  a comic creator, a successful comic creator,

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champions Hoopla. The best part about Hoopla is that it's a platform most public libraries give you free access to as long as you have a library card. But I will admit as much as I talk about Hoopla and supporting your local libraries,  I actually don't know much about how Hoopla is run or operated or how the comics end up on the app.  So to help me learn more, today I'm talking with the vice president of digital acquisitions at Hoopla Digital.

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name is Catherine Zappa. She's on the podcast today to answer all my questions about Hoopla's comic book and graphic novel offerings.  She's got some info on comic book streaming trends,  and we'll learn a little more about the company's mission to evolve the public library.  But before we get started, I want to dedicate this episode to all of the Short Box Patronies,  AKA the loyal supporters that make up the Short Box Patreon community.  I couldn't do this show without them. So I got to say, I love my patrons. I'm going to give all of them a shout out by name at the end of the episode.

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And if you're not already a member of the Patreon, well guess what?  You too can join the ranks of the Short Box Elite by signing up at patreon.com slash the short box. You might be asking yourself,  well, what do I get in return for signing up? Well, patrons of the show get access to commercial free episodes, extra bonus shows like me and Drew's spin-off podcast, save it for the podcast. And depending on the tier you sign up for, I'll also send you some free comics and short box merch directly to you. Joining the Patreon and supporting the show will cost you like five bucks a month, which is like the price of one single Marvel comic.

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If that, went to the shop the other day,  bought the new Batman number one, it was $10.  So for half of that, you could be supporting your favorite comic book podcast. It's not a big amount for you, but it would mean the world to me. So once again, support the show, get rewarded, and have my undying gratitude and get a shout out every episode by signing up at patreon.com slash the short box.  And without further ado, short box nation, let's welcome Catherine Zappa to the show.

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Hey, Catherine, how are you doing? Hey, Votter. Great, doing great. Thank you so much for having me today. This is awesome. Big, big fans of the show. Oh, that means a lot. Catherine, let me start off with maybe a silly question, or at least the basic. What does a VP of digital acquisitions do? What do you do exactly? Yeah, so here at Hoopla, I actually oversee not only comics, but also video and music for any new partnerships that come into

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the Hoopla catalog with their content.  we are out there on vetting new opportunities, talking to potential new partners,  and working with all the account managers that we have over here at Hoopla that work directly with our publishers on a day-to-day basis  to make sure that their businesses are growing, that they're getting the visibility that they need via the marketing team. So we also work very, very closely with the marketing team as well.

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um over here to make sure that  all that visibility is happening for that new content, not only that new content that's coming in, but some of that awesome backlog content that we've had. um Because let's face it,  a lot of folks want to reread comics.  Digital is a great way to redo that if you don't have them physically at your home.  And so that's a great opportunity that we offer through the platform. Get that whole series, get all those volumes, um get some great weekend reading in. Like we'll be doing this weekend, right?  Absolutely, I got a whole...

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Backlog  and on that topic I will say I find that the selection  and just like overall ability to rent a plethora of like digital comics and graphic novels and books like to be extremely uh Helpful for me as a podcaster, especially when I having to do like research for a different guest or topic It's like realistically I can't afford to like go buy all this stuff and I think that's where hoopla comes in to circumvent ah Some like the things I need to read to prepare for an interview and things like that

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You mentioned you're in charge  of handling those relationships with publishers and vendors. I guess could you speak a little bit more about what publishers you work with? What's that pipeline look like? How do Marvel comics end up on the app? Yeah, so we work with over 60 different  comic publishers directly.  And then that's not including those that we might work with through aggregators or even those that we might work with uh as far as getting content in from traditional book publishers.

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Carver Collins and what they're coming with out through Allie and in Scholastic and whatnot.  basically our day to day is having the conversations about what are we looking forward to, what's coming up next with those publishers.  And then thereby the marketing team gets involved to identify what are we going to be able to highlight? What are we going to be able to merchandise around? Our operations team is going to be looking to make sure that we've got that content coming in in a timely manner so that we can get it out.

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to those library patrons that are looking for a day of, especially if they don't happen to be located near a comic book store that happens to have the physical copies around uh or maybe near their own library. I some folks can't get into the library during business hours. And so we're a great alternative for them as well. uh And so that's a few ways by which we're working together. The other thing that's really unique about Hoopla, as you probably noticed, we carry a lot of different formats on the platform, right? We carry not only comics.

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but we've got audio books and ebooks, music albums, and TV shows as well as feature linked videos. So  one of the things that we do do here,  we've got a dedicated operations team for comics. We've got a dedicated marketing team for comics. it's like that for all of our formats. It's extremely intentional and extremely strategic because we want to be able to speak to that comic book patron that is

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either coming into the virtual library or going into their physical library when they come into Hooplo, we want them to know that we're speaking directly to them. Likewise, another thing that we do, I feel like this is becoming more more prevalent, you know, in the comic sphere, we're used to fandom, right? I mean, that's that's what the cons are all about. It's what the expos are all about. It's about the fans getting out there. It's about the cosplay. It's about getting so excited about, you know, all the different.

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characters, franchises,  universes, if you will. And so one of the things that our teams do on this side is there's a lot of cross collaborations. That way when you do go into Hoopla, let's say that you're looking for the Walking Dead comics, right? You'll find those,  but you'll also find some Daryl Dixon if you want to check out the links on the video side. So one of the things that our team, particularly our marketing team, where it's really hard to do is say, if you came in and you were just listening to, let's say, uh

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you know, the soundtracks for some of the Walking Dead, you can easily find the videos, but you can also easily find those comics. So we're sort of trying to cross-pollinate to get that fandom growth that we like to talk about to bring you into the universe from a really immersive perspective of any format you're interested in at the end of the day. And so that's kind of one of the things that makes us really special because most platforms out there aren't carrying multiple formats like we are,  especially in the comic book space, right? Not many DSPs are doing that, but we're doing that.

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So if you have a thirst for a particular universe, we are absolutely going after trying to feed that thirst, whether to your point, it's Marvel or DC or any other comic franchises out there. Now, I logged into Hoopla today and I,  for the most part, I'm using Hoopla on my iPad. I'm a nighttime reader. Like that's my way of unwinding.  Uh, and I'm always reading at night, but today I was on the desktop, the website version.

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And I went to the comic book section and I noticed that you guys front and center had a big old banner that read like, manga is here. which was news to me. how new is that that you guys have started adding manga? So yeah, so manga was a little bit of a lift on our side, right? Because we wanted to bring in a traditional right to left reading experience and our player had not been built that way. So we actually went in back in 2023 and rebuilt the player.

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And so as of June of 2023, we started to bring in some manga content slowly but surely. And today, yeah, we've got a really great uh rounded out collection of manga that is available for engagement. Multiple publishers are on board with us already at this point, and we've got many, many more uh big and smaller size publishers that are excited to get in that space. And that includes Monway too. We're looking to bring in some Monway content.  So yeah, really taking a look at  how can we diversify because at the end of the day,

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We know that there's a very diverse group of individuals that enter the library to get the content that they're looking for. And their needs are diverse, their interests are diverse, and we want to meet those needs and interests. So  that's one of the reasons that we  wanted to make sure that Mongo was in there.  Wish we could have gotten to doing it sooner, to be honest with you, because obviously there's been a ton of interest there, a lot of growth for a long time.  But yeah, we had to do some development on our side, and I think we developed out a pretty great experience.

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If you're used to engaging with traditional comics with us or Westernized uh manga,  it probably wasn't too much of a lift for you to move over as a patron and engage now in the right to left because the reader's very, very similar.  It's just, you know, we're switching to the other direction  than you were used to before. And we do have instructions in there too, if you are a first timer or new to manga digitally. I guess, Catherine, I got to ask, because you mentioned, you know, the community aspect of fandom and going to conventions.

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I have to imagine that you probably get to do some pretty cool traveling yourself. Is that safe to say? Like, are you going to like these big conventions and, you know, representing on behalf of Hoopla and meeting publishers and such? Absolutely.  Every single year you can find us at San Diego Comic Con.  Yeah, we tend to go to  New York Comic Con every other year. We also go to the anime expos too because of that growth that we've been seeing in the manga space.  So  yeah, anime, NYC. uh

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LA Expo, we've been at all of those and we're continuing to make an appearance there again to meet with partners in those spaces where we can try to bring in more and more content, meeting with those publishers, talking about what's going to be new if they've been active partners of ours. Are you guys going to be at New York Comic Con this year? So this year, New York Comic Con falls very close to Frankfurt Book Fair, which is the biggest book fair in the world. And it's been surprising, but that

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Manga and comics at Frankfurt Book Fair has been growing at a pretty exponential rate. So this year, we're going to be heading on over to Frankfurt Book Fair in Germany. Like I said, it's that same general time frame. We got to get over there. So we're going to be there this year instead and hopefully back at NYCC next year. Awesome. I guess I'm curious about your fandom and your personal relationship with comics. Because I mean, I imagine in this role, you probably have learned quite a bit from working with manga publishers, Manwa.

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You know, you're talking about the big American publishers as well. How much of this stuff did you already know like prior to, you know, working at Hoopla? Yeah, so  I've been in content and content distribution uh for over 20 years.  Comics, I've been in comics though for, it's been about seven years now that I've been working in the comic space.  But of course my love for comics and content in general, you know, started when I was a lot younger. I can remember going over my grandparents' house every Sunday.

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Uh, sitting on my grandfather's lap and he would open up the newspaper and I would immediately say, just move right to the funnies, right? And that's kind of where my passion first started. Um, my family actually calls me Kathy. So we would see if there was a new Kathy  comic funny in there.  We'd look at Garfield, Zits and Blondie. Those are some of some of my favorites that I grew up on. Um, and honestly, it made me super excited when we went into our deal with Hearst. You might've noticed we've got a binge pass in there.

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called Comics Kingdom. It's all Sunday funnies. That's a deal that we have in place with Hurst. Awesome. Yeah, so if you want to be able to really engage with a lot of comics, uh the binge passes are a great way to go. You can get access to hundreds of titles with one single borrow. uh know, Bader, that's one thing we didn't talk about. If any of your listeners or watchers are unfamiliar with Hoopla, it's a borrowing currency. You mentioned before how it's free, so it is at no cost to the patron. The library is making that payment on the patron's behalf.

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but the library is going to give them a certain number of borrows every month. So  if you get 10 borrows a month, you can go in and yeah, you can check out 10 comics or  maybe you check out, you know, four anime episodes and then six comics. But with a binge pass, it's great because you can go in and you can borrow with one borrow a whole collection of content. um And that's where that Hearst binge pass comes into play for us. We've got another one, too, with fan base um press, who we just love fan base press and everything that's coming out of that.

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imprint uh in publishers area. So  got a couple of opportunities there, but that's kind of where my passion first started. And then from there, know, uh not to show my age,  I got into, you know, Saturday morning cartoons have been a thing for a very long time. They were decades upon decades ago. So, you know, a lot of my interest went back to some of the stuff I saw there. You know, I was watching Captain Caveman and then all of a sudden was saying, oh my gosh.

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Captain Caveman and Teen Angels get out, Hannah Barbera, you're killing me. And so I was getting excited about that. Speed Racer, same situation there, right? Because they were still playing the original shows from the 60s, late 60s and early 70s, in the late 70s and early 80s when I was growing up. So that's really where it all kind of started for me.

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And then of course, on the live action side, you saw live action, you know, networks coming into play with Wonder Woman and the old Batmans from the sixties.  So that kind of really ended up getting me jazzed, especially to see strong female figures coming out with, as I mentioned before, the teenager, the teen angels, and then Wonder Woman um really coming in to see, wow, look at all of these empowered women and the stories that they're having.

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and  the meaningful um advancement that they're providing to females. And I got really jazzed about that. I can't lie. um From there, obviously a lot of stuff started happening on the adaptation side for film. And so at that point, I was already familiar with the Star Wars comics and things like that. So that just sort of enhanced my interest too, if you will. And I got really jazzed when I was looking at the Tales of the Jedi.

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That was a real game changer for me looking at what Kevin Anderson, particularly Dave Dorman's drawings, really loved Dave Dorman.  And uh so that all started to sort of create a different level of engagement for me um in storytelling and in taking me to a place that I can't physically be in myself, but from an imagination perspective,  how exciting. And I think that that's what really kind of started to move me, right? Like being able to whisk

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away emotionally into those stories and start to have that, you know, emotional engagement involved with involvement with those characters that, you know, it's just so crazy to think I'm reading this story. I'm looking at these visuals and I'm feeling so emotionally engaged all of a sudden with those characters and how you would see some of those characters grow over time. So that's kind of where it sort of started for me. it kind of, guess it went back.

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a lot to that whole fandom thing though, right? Because for me, I've always been a multi format,  um, Engager, you could almost say in stories of that nature. uh but yeah, it started with the Funnies originally for me. Catherine, that was such a phenomenal response. Like no notes. You perfectly encapsulated why I love fiction and comics and just like reading overall. It's just the ability to be teleported to a different world. And I think comics to, know, obviously a very bias here, but I think comics is the

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best medium out there is combining pictures and words together for a great experience. was doing some research, you know, and I came across your LinkedIn and I was very impressed to see like, oh wow, she's like been working in this industry, you know, publishing and, and the content. Um, like I saw like prior to this role at Hooply had worked at Dreamscape, which I'm familiar for as, know, the company that produces a lot of like award winning audio books, um, and things like that. I guess what's your favorite thing about working in the publishing market?

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In the publishing space, honestly, it's the passion around content in general. I have to imagine that like you and as I just shared, this is giving folks an opportunity to escape, right? We're creating this awesome opportunity for escapism from the realities. And looking at where we're at here in 2025, the past five years have been quite a ride, right? Engagement is up because I think...

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Everyone has been looking for some level of escapism,  whether it's through comics or some other medium. And I think, you I've always been excited to be part of that. Like I want to be part of helping folks to take a journey that will relieve them of their real reality stresses, you know, and take them into a different storyline  that'll get them excited and maybe stress them in other ways, potentially, right?  Especially when you're left with a cliffhanger.

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Yeah, single editions. Give me a break.  I need that next one to come out soon.  Um, but that's, that's the reality is it's all about content and the passion behind content. I that not only I have, but I imagine that everybody that works with content has to have some level of passion to it because it is,  there's still a level of work associated with it if we're working in it, right. But your passion  and how much you love those stories.

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is what makes it all worthwhile and being able to be a part of it, even on the sales side at this point, right? Cause  I'm on the acquisition and sales side, essentially. So I'm not really in a creator position at this point as I was in some of my previous roles, but it's exciting to be able to get out there and say, Oh my goodness, the patrons are asking us for this. The library is asking us for this. I can't wait to be able to serve this up. I'm so excited to, you know, meet all the needs that they're looking for today, especially again, if they can't get to their local.

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comic book store if they can't get to their local libraries  because everybody's got different reasons that they can't in some cases. Yeah, I recorded another episode with one of my co-hosts and we were talking about, we got on the topic of like libraries and we were talking about like, you know, our favorite memories from the library. And growing up, the library was like the place for to find me at after school.  All throughout high school, know, middle school, you know, when we didn't have a computer at home, now I'm dating like dating my age now.

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Like I was always at the library and when they started carrying like and I don't think they carried a lot of comics then I've actually I can confidently say not but you know, was reading like, you know, choose your own adventure books  Hardy Boys ah I was using I  was using the library's, know, computer to print out Dragon Ball Z images, you know, like the library was like, you know a safe space and I don't get to go as quite as often now but I think Hoopla is a good extension of that and I was thinking about what you said in terms of like, you know

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the ability, the power of really good storytelling and fiction and know,  know, cliffhangers. It made me think about how hoopla can also be a test of patience. Cause when you realize that you have hit your total rental and you're like, Oh my God, I still have eight more days left this month before it's renewed. You know, you really start to like realize like exactly what you want to read in the moment. I'm so happy that you brought that up.  It's weird because we didn't talk about this. had time, but  my, that is.

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I am in the same boat as you. Okay, so my library where I live, they only give me four borrows a month.  It hurts my soul. I know. How do you decide on anything? I know, I know. And I've got my husband and I've got three kids too, who are all first and foremost when they use Hoopla, they're using them for comics, by the way. I should mention that they're huge comic fans on Hoopla. But that was their first complaint to me  was I only get four borrows a month. What is this?  So I'm so excited that we have this favorite.

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And a lot of folks I feel like don't know about that. I use my favorite button on there as almost like a future playlist for when my next month comes. I can borrow again. So it's a little, if you're not familiar with it for any of the patrons out there, it's a little heart button that happens to be on there. If you click that, it's going to go into your favorite carousel, which is going to be on your main page. And then you can go back the following month to remember, Oh, that's where I left off. need to pick up that.

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or these are the other things that I was looking at around the way and I just didn't have enough borrows at the end of the day. um In addition to that, I mean, that's my go-to. I use that all the time because again, four borrows a month over here, it's not a good thing. um But we've also got bonus borrows. At the end of every single month, there's a week-long program called bonus borrows. And that's a really important program to us that um is important not only to the libraries and the library patrons,

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But honestly, it's also really important to the content providers and they're super, they're always super excited to get engaged with it, which always excites us over here. So that's where basically we're able to give additional borrows of any of that selection of content. Just out at the end of the month, anybody can engage with those. Um, you can use as many as you want. There's usually about a dozen available in each format, including comics. So there's a whole lot of extra stuff to engage with at the end of every single month of the year.

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uh that have been hand selected and the publishers have specifically said, we want to make sure this is included in the program. We actually have conversations with every one of those publishers. So you're going to see some publishers that are pretty consistent in there. They are huge fans of that program. They're huge fans of the library and they're huge fans of the patrons and getting additional comics on over to the patrons every month that way. I guess what are some of the common, I guess, hurdles or roadblocks when it comes to working with like a publisher to get their content?

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on the platform because I think manga and how there are certain  authors  that are very anti-digital. They don't offer any of their work digital. It's strictly a print format. I don't think that's the case with Marvel and DC, but I know that for Marvel and DC, some of their stories, they don't have the rights to no longer. So they can't offer something like  whatever, Conan or certain Star Wars books.  I guess what are some of the challenges that come with working with publishers to provide digital comics for the patrons?

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Yeah, so  most comic publishers  that we've been talking to are not opposed to digital.  A lot of them are just asking, you know, I think how much, you know,  is the juice worth the squeeze there, right? Is there enough opportunity in digital for us to digitize? We have heard that before.  And all that we can say on our platform, and not every platform's the same, it's really hard to find digital comics sometimes. It really can be hard, especially a good experience with digital comics. It's a struggle.

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Um, but usually one of the first things that I'll do is I'll walk them into our experience. Anybody that has a relationship with us, we've walked that publisher or that partner into the experience to make sure this is how amazing this experience is. mean, you mentioned my resume before I came over from HarperCollins. They were some of the first in to start working with HoopLuv because the experience is a great experience.  Um, and they were seeing that the patrons enjoyed it and were engaging. So we've had a great business.

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with growth year over year since the launch of the platform. And we're seeing some extremely great growth on the comic side of the business.  I think that it's such a, it's such a, a  fresh and easy intuitive to use platform that at the end of the day,  it's not that much of a sell to a publisher typically. Now, to your point, in some cases, those publishers may have certain creators that have withheld their digital rights because they're not comfortable with digital yet.

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And I think that that's still part of our educational journey with those publishers to be able for them to be able to share back to those creators. And this is, this is the true experience. Check it out.  You know, I talk about our action view processing a lot with them too. That's where we have that panel by panel viewing opportunity.  There's a lot of sensitivity around that because they're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. We don't want you cutting up our, our book or our files, the single, we don't want you doing that.  We don't do that.

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The way that we go about  creating that action view, we actually never touch the file. It's really just a zooming in technicality  that we are able to do. And then there's an additional pinch and zoom there. From my perspective and from how we typically tell it, we're actually giving a lot of great opportunity to the artwork to get engaged with at a much more intimate level. um As  though somebody was holding it in their hand and they could go in for a closer look at, my goodness,

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look at the contour on that figure, right? Like all of a sudden you're able to do those types of things with that type of functionality. And we've a pretty good functionality there. I would say better than most. And so those are a few of the things that we always try to bring to light that we are trying to bring that intimate experience that is though what we're in your hand, even though you aren't holding it, we want the engagement with the artwork that way.

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uh We want you to be able to see exactly how the lettering's been handwritten and  see it and feel the emotion from how it's been written right. uh So that way, you know, they can really get that experience, that emotional experience again with the writing and get that connectivity going, even though it's a digital experience. To on the topic of that um action,  what is it technically called in Hoopla? We call it action view processing and

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And it is actually proprietary. We have our own proprietary software that we developed  to work within our player for that experience. So you won't get that same exact experience anywhere else. It might look replicated, but it's not the same. Good to know. OK, so  on the topic of the action view processing, I told you that I typically read at nighttime  well into the wee hours of the night. And as you can imagine, I've been doing that for many years. So these eyeballs don't work like they used to much anymore. And I can't tell you how many times.

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the action view processing has come in handy when I'm like trying to read like a double page spread and I need to like kind of hone in  or the text is too small. So, you know, I need, I need it blowing up a little bit bigger. I want to talk about the, the larger company. Cause this was new to me. I didn't know that hoopla is, you know, the digital arm of the  larger company Midwest tape. I mean, I'm to understand that that  Midwest tape has been around for years working closely with libraries all over the U S

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And I was curious, when did Hoopla, I guess, come about? And what was the,  and what does Midwest Tape do that's different from Hoopla? Yeah, so Midwest Tape actually came about in the mid-90s. And I love the story. our founder, uh co-founder, um the company's been founded by John Eldred and Jeff Jankowski. uh John Eldred owned some family video stores. uh And Blockbuster came in, bought some of those stores, and he had all these extra tapes. And it was like, what was I going to do with them?

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And he remembered that um librarians used to come in all the time and sometimes make purchases from him. And so he ended up starting relationships with them. And that's when he decided to start up Midwest Tape. And you would be shocked at how many people have been with the company since the company first got started back in the mid 90s, which is awesome.  has been around for more than 10 years now. um Basically it was after 2010 that we started developing out what Hoopla would look like. um

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And today, you know, we've got a company of over 400 people between Hoople and Midwest Tape that are servicing libraries on the physical side. We still provide  DVDs, Blu-rays and CDs. So mostly focused in the video  and music space on the physical side of the business.  And then on the digital side of the business, of course, we've expanded and we're in far more  formats there  for the libraries. Wow. Like I said, I've had the, I've had libraries on my mind a lot, especially the Jax Public Library, you know, where I'm here in Jacksonville.

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And I'll never forget the first time I went into one of the libraries many years after like grad, not that many years, but after graduating like a high school and, and, you know, being in college and having to like, you know, occasionally go to library to find books. And I'll never forget going to the  downtown main library and they had a whole dedicated section to comics and graphic novels. And it wasn't in the kids section for once. Like I was used to seeing it sometimes in the kids section, but it was like a full.

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Blown curated section and I was like so impressed that like, my God, they've got like current books, like books from, you know, last year, the biggest titles here. The website says that, you know, you guys carry thousands of books. Is there an exact number about how many, you know, comics and graphic novels that are available on Hoopla? Yeah. So comics and graphic novels and manga on Hoopla is now over 35,000. Holy moly. Yeah, absolutely. We're really, really excited about that. uh

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Across Hoopla, we've got a lot of content. We've got over 2.5 million pieces of content on Hoopla. uh But comics has been growing at a pretty rapid rate for us and we're excited to  keep that energy going. There's a lot of great publishers  we're looking forward to, you know, announcing in the future new relationships with. And of course,  a lot of those guys have a lot of content. So um we're continuing to see growth in a pretty substantial way year over year.

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with the amount of patrons that are coming in. Again, I think a lot of it goes back to that fandom. I think some of them go in and they're listening or they're watching something else and then they're like, oh, oh my goodness. I didn't even realize there was the comic book opportunity in here for me to start checking out associated with that franchise of opportunities. So it's pretty cool. Oh, absolutely. And you said something earlier, I think a few times about the advantage of digital comics. But one in particular that you said that I want to highlight is that

31:50
You know, I live in a city where I'm fortunate where there is four or five great comic shops in like a 10 mile radius. That is not the case for a lot of folks that live in,  I think the Midwest is a very good example, like where the nearest comic shop might be 20, 30 miles out. And this is where like the advantage of digital comes in handy where, you know, that eliminates the, you know, your geographic location is no longer a factor. You know, it's like, now  you've got a fair shot at, you know,

32:17
building a fandom and finding out great stories too. That's definitely part of the opportunity. I think it's not that everybody doesn't want to go into a comic book store, right? I mean, who wouldn't love to be able to go into a comic book store every day? They're,  they're so cool. You get that vibe as soon as you walk in that you feel like you're at home a little bit, right? Um, but that's just not the reality for everybody. Um, and so it's really exciting to be able to bring, you know, a really great catalog of content across so many amazing publishers.

32:47
directly into their homes, uh through their public libraries still, which is great. I mean, we love that community grassroots type of an opportunity. uh know, clubs, things like that, that are coming out of public libraries. You can bring your physical or you can use your digital if for some reason you don't have the physical copy to engage. So,  you know, we're really just trying to meet the needs of those that want to be able to engage. Additionally, I would say this, if you're looking for something, sometimes we've got some of those niche comics that...

33:14
that can be a little bit harder to find even in comic book stores every now and then.  know, digital may be another reason that, you you pick up another title. Absolutely, yeah.  What are some of the most popular titles on Hoopla? Is there any trends that you're seeing or any specific titles that  you guys notice is like  very popular or franchises, et cetera?

33:35
Well, absolutely. mean, a lot of times things will go along with what we're seeing happening in the multimedia space. So are the theaters, if you will. So like Absolute Superman Volume One is huge right now for us. So is Lois Lane, Absolute Batman. Those are all doing really, really well for us right now. Black Panther is another one that's in the top of our popular carousel right now, along with Lazarus. So there's a lot of different things that are happening. I would say most recently, though, we've been seeing over the course of the past 18 to 24 months

34:04
a really big growth on the kids side of things.  Just about to ask about like, what are you guys noticing trend wise for like  YA graphic novels, know, the teen market? Yeah,  I, you know, I think the biggest thing is what's happening throughout the school systems, um particularly in the US. They're embracing comics, graphic novels and manga in a way that I don't think that I know that I didn't see when I was growing up. They're really embracing it in a very different way. I mean,

34:34
I'm seeing my kids even come home now with their syllabuses for things that they're going to read throughout the year. um you know, Scholastic has that survivor series um of stories that they now have. They've always had it in prose, but now they've got it in graphic novel as well.  And the teachers are accepting that. They're saying with open arms, if that's how you want to engage, engage. got three boys. That's how all three of them engage. They engage with graphic novels and comics first. um And it's been a real...

35:01
you know, welcome, I think that the school system is accepting to that and seeing really what's coming in. And honestly,  from a creative perspective, I love that because it's just bringing them more into that creative art world, too, from a visual perspective that, you know, when I was going through even art classes, we didn't really cover comic type art right now. All of a sudden  you're seeing that being brought in from the English language,  L.A. perspective. And I think that that's really exciting, too.

35:30
You're seeing a lot of stuff too that again was a traditional chapter book like Babysitter's Club now showing up in comic book format. And I think that it's really exciting. I think it's expanding the franchise opportunities to a new audience in a very different way. And I think that's one of the reasons. And then you're always going to have, you know, opportunities like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, right? It does, I mean,  everybody, the demographic for those comics are huge now. And that includes children coming in and checking those out.  The big Nates, oh

35:59
There's a lot happening on the manga side too. You know, I was, that was an exciting thing for me. I'll be honest. You know, I, my kids, I came home one day, one of my sons had, um, Nartoe and I was, I was like, Oh my gosh, I love that you picked this up. said, how did you even know  how to read this though? And he was like, gosh, mom, isn't it obvious? And I was, I just loved the response because it really showed how kids, if they want to read something,  they're nimble to it, you know, and they're going to, they're fluid. They're, they're smart. They're going to figure it out.

36:29
And they're going to engage. And I think that that's exciting, especially from a larger cultural perspective, that not everything is, you know, Westernized necessarily out there and they still love it. They still eat it up. Right. It's exciting. I mean, in short, these kids got it good. Okay, Catherine, because, you know, as I'm thinking about, you know, just my relationship with libraries, reading in school, I had to fight.

36:55
I think I've said this story so many times on the show, so the patrons are like, oh my God, here he goes again. But I'm gonna it anyways. When I was in  middle school, we had the 25 book challenge. I don't know if that was like a national thing, but you know, in my school, if you read 25 books throughout the year, I think you got like a pizza party or something. And I had to fight to have comic books counted. Now, the stipulation was like every five comics or six comics counted as one book.

37:22
And I remember cracking my knuckles in front of this adult, know, this teacher, know, whatever, 12 years old. I was like,  that's it. Watch. Challenge accepted, right? Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, I do that in my sleep, lady. So let's go. Yeah, I like that. I mean, that's the thing is when you when you love to read and you're voracious like that, especially, especially if you're in a franchise universe or a couple franchise universes, you will you will read it all. And in some cases, you may want to read a second, third, fourth time. Right. I mean,

37:52
That's what's so exciting about it, especially with comics, because you're taking a slightly different look at those visuals every single time you reread. You're gathered. It's almost like when you watch a movie and you're like, I totally missed that joke the first time, right? And then you go in  and you're reading that comic again. You're like, wow, I didn't even realize the attitude that that character had when, they just find that visual. Right. So it's exciting.  And I mean, I think too, you know,

38:17
In the manga space, you've got something like manga classics, right? Totally different way to tell about those classic tales, which can be really onerous when you're looking at those huge books and it's just a million and a half words and all of a sudden you get swept right into it in manga classics and taken away into a story of Macbeth or something, right?  That all of a sudden you can kind of understand along the way. It's not that, you know, old Shakespearean English in the same style anymore. You're looking at it differently.

38:44
For sure. think sometimes having that visual element gives you a nice point of reference that sometimes just words alone don't necessarily give. uh So yeah, very good point. Catherine, is there any other, I guess, data points, trends, stats, whatever they may be that you have on deck that you wouldn't mind sharing when it comes to hoopla or the trends that you see when it comes to the comics and graphic novels? Yeah, I mean.

39:08
One of the things that we're really looking forward to doing at Hoopla is coming out with more binge passes  in the comic space and really providing a larger offering of comics  that is meaningful.  We're really intentional when we come out with those products.  We don't do them just every night and day with everybody. So we want to make sure that we're really bringing something to the table that we think is going to lend to a really great opportunity for engaging again with a lot of comics that you can select to create that

39:37
world for yourself that you want to enter creatively  and emotionally as far as storytelling goes. So that's going to be one big thing for us.  And the other thing is I think  seeing where it makes sense for us to strategically get more involved with carrying singles. We do carry singles on the platform right now. Oh yeah, you do. It's kind of hitter. It's kind of here or there that we do.  But coming in really strategically when we're hearing from uh

40:01
patrons that they're looking for that next one. know, think Saga is one of our more popular single series right now that we have.  It's just, you know, everybody loves Saga.  Um, and we do too, but there's a lot of other opportunities out there like that, that I think we want to bring to the table.  Um, so I think that we may end up seeing some more single opportunities come in, um, for some of our publishers along the way. One of my favorite selling points about Hoopla and it always feels like a, like a dirty little secret, but it's the fact that, know, you could read

40:31
Image Comics Day of Release. So sometimes when I'm at the shop, you know,  whether it be budgetary constraints, or I just legit forgot to go pick up, you know, the newest issue of  whatever saga being a great example, or just a new number one, I've noticed like hoopla has it the same day. And I always feel like, like, I'm like, am I supposed to have access like this brand new book that came out? I guess why is that the case for image? Is it because that's the

40:56
the agreement you guys have set up with Image. I'm curious why it's not like that with other publishers. But Image specifically is really good at day of releases. Yeah, Image is absolutely wonderful at day of releases. And we're so grateful for their partnership and  willingness to be able to provide it so quickly. To be fair, not all of the publishers are able to do a day and date release with us.  But certainly, as soon as we've got access to the content, as soon as it's been delivered,

41:22
and they give us the thumbs up that we're ready to go. We're going to drop that out to you guys. em And of course we've got a great marketing team. We've got Ray Berry em and Jada em on his team that are always out there making sure that they're getting visibility of all the great stuff that everybody's been waiting for if it's not day and date. em But yeah, day and date, you know, we're always trying to let folks know sort of back to that point of not everybody can get to the comic book store. It's just not, it's not.

41:47
And  it can be an accessibility issue sometimes, right? um And so that's one of the conversations that we have with a lot of our publishers about, you know,  how quickly they can deliver to us and allow us to release content.  So it is kind of a publisher by publisher thing. If every publisher came to us and said, we are able to give this to you day and date, we would be ready for it. um But unfortunately, that's not the reality. And there's several reasons behind that. think across the publishers, it's not one specific reason. There's a lot of different

42:17
things that I think go into uh how quickly we're able to get access. I'm thinking about a past interview that I had. We were talking about digital comics  and the point was brought up that  the case for a lot of publishers is that they actually don't even have the means  of digitizing their comics or some have like outdated technology or just not a priority. Do you guys ever step in in those cases where it's like, oh yeah, we'd love to offer our content digitally but

42:46
if you can figure out how to do it for us. Do you guys ever go about doing like that technical aspect too? Yeah. So unfortunately we are just a distributor. We don't provide digitizing services at the company.  And in some cases you're absolutely right. That could be one reason why we don't have the titles day and date because  the priority of course um is going to be, you know, if you're in both the print and the digital space is going to be making sure that the comic book stores have what they expect to have on their shelves. um And so um sometimes we end up falling in

43:15
you know, second in line there in that case. um But yeah, unfortunately we don't, we don't provide um those types of services. And in some cases, I do kind of wonder if the publishers would even provide us that type of opportunity. I say that going back to something that we talked about earlier today,  which was um the digitizing of comics in general and the comfortability factor, right?  That some publishers have and maybe in some cases don't have. um If we take on digitizing,

43:45
maybe they would be questioning, you know,  I need to see every single one ahead of time,  you know, to make sure that it looks up to our quality standards and things of that nature.  So that's one of the reasons that, you know, uh it's definitely in the publisher's hand to feel confident that the files that they're providing to us meets their quality standards as well.  And if for some reason it were to ever not meet ours,  we would let a publisher know that  and they would, know, uh

44:12
regenerate it on over to us and re-deliver it to us because every now and then  we'll hit a bug during delivery that, you know, during our QC process and we do QC every single title that comes through,  making sure that that file, you know, is up to par for what the patrons and the libraries are expecting at the end of the day. Okay, that makes sense.  I've got a follow up question about publishers, but I want to take a quick sidestep and I want to pass the baton to a listener of this show who

44:39
Admittedly is the one that put me on to Hoopla was one of the earliest champions of Hoopla is one of the biggest champions of public libraries.  name is Amanda Marin.  I reached out to her and said, Hey, you're my library person, my Hoopla person.  Kat Zappa on the show. Do you want to submit a question? And she went ahead and submitted one. So let's hear from Amanda. Hi, Potter and Catherine. My name is Mandy and I'm a long time short box listener, comic reader, and fan of Hoopla.

45:05
I have been using Hoopla for over a decade through our local library in Jacksonville, and it's how I read the majority of my comics, listen to many audiobooks, and watch shows that I can't find on any of the other streaming services.  That said, as someone who has been a library patron for much longer than I've currently been a librarian,  I am now struggling with the thought that so many small libraries and library systems can no longer afford Hoopla and the effect that will have on their patrons' access, especially to comics and graphic novels.  Libby and other apps just don't

45:35
offer as robust a catalog or smooth layout the way Hoopla does.  So my question is, I'm wondering how the company is looking at lowering costs and affirming that continuing access  amid all the federal budget cuts that have been occurring where so many library systems are looking to cut more and more apps.  Thank you. Hey, big shout out to Mandy. I forgot to also mention that she is also librarian at the St. John's Public Library. So big shout out to Mandy. Thank you for the question.

46:02
Yeah, thank you for that question, Mandy. And thanks for, I'm so excited that, that she's so committed to, to Hoopla  and that it's become sort of a go-to for her. We absolutely love that.  So one of the things, um,  you know, I can say is that we're again, we're constantly expanding our offering in hopes  of, you know, being able to bring in more content,  um,  at, costs that are affordable. think that binge pass that I talked about before, where with a single borrow, you're getting access to huge bundles of content.

46:31
that you get seven days of unlimited access to everything that might be in there. Those types of opportunities are some of the ways by which we're trying to offer opportunities  that will essentially lower the search price that the library happens to be having to pay out at the end of the day  for that borrow. So  keep your eye out for more of those opportunities. There are definitely more coming out.  And there's definitely more publishers always coming on board.

47:00
Of course, with regard to that,  rates are always kind of fluctuating to help overcome those budget costs that are happening at not only the federal level, but even more so the state level.  We're always paying attention to what's happening at the state level too, because so much of that library budget's coming in from the state level at the end of the day. Good point. Guess I should use this time right here to remind everyone, hey, look, public libraries are having a rough out there.

47:26
support your public library, and advocate for them as well. uh Like we said, a lot going on. I want to, on the topic of working with publishers, uh safe to say a lot of aspiring comic creators, indie publishers, et cetera, listen to the show and would maybe be interested in having some of their comic work and uh stuff on Hoopla. I guess, how often are you guys working with indie and small publishers to get their work  available on Hoopla?

47:55
Yeah, a lot of times right now when it comes to indie authors and creators, we're getting their content through various aggregators, meaning it'll be like one company that happens to represent multiple individuals and or imprints at the end of the day that aren't really at the tier where they are out on their own, able to do all those deliveries and things of that nature. They just don't have the bandwidth, right? And so that's what we lean into to get a lot of indie content at the end of the day.

48:24
are those aggregators. And if you're an indie author that's wondering who the aggregators are that we have active relationships with, feel free to just uh shoot over an email to our general inbox at Hoopla. We'll be able to share with you who some of those relationships are in an effort for you to be able to find access to getting on the platform with us. That's great. That's awesome. Unfortunately, uh my uh library was also one of the ones to cut the rentals from 16. I had a good 16.

48:53
Eight, I know, I was eating way too good. um So  it's an interesting time, like I said, support and advocate for your public libraries.  I guess, Catherine, is there anything that you could say or talk about in terms of the future of Hooplo, what features you guys have coming up next, what people should pay attention to going forward? Yeah, absolutely. Well, definitely more binge passes coming out. And the other exciting thing about those binge passes  is it's going to allow us to carry different formats than what you see organically on the platform today.

49:22
So while you see audio books and eBooks and comics, uh know, one of the things that  BingePass has allowed us is to bring in puzzling type games. So, oh yeah, so we've got uh Puzzle Palace and Puzzmo.  Those are two puzzle games, uh both word puzzles, uh as well as numeric type puzzles. They've got a game in Puzzmo called Really Bad Chess. uh And a few other types of games that aren't necessarily word or number type games. So a little bit more on the gaming side, potentially.

49:51
um And then also magazines. So magazines we don't have organically on the platform, but we do through um through our binge passes.  And we've also got some kids podcasts that are available through binge passes too. So I would say expect more on the podcasting space, hopefully more in the gaming space. So that's one of the exciting things in my mind is we're trying to expand that universe. When we think, when we talk about that universe of formats, you know, format  opportunities again.

50:18
There's even more, I think, coming our way soon that's going to get us excited and keep us going about other franchises or other universes that we're excited about from a creative perspective. I am looking forward to that. mean, look, comics, audiobooks, and now podcasts. What can't Hoopla do? I know, right? Catherine, this has been great. And I want to say to the patrons, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast. And we just finished talking to Catherine Zappa about her role at Hoopla and the many different comics and graphic novels and all the things.

50:48
that you can check out for free. Thanks in part to your local library. Hoopla is available  everywhere. I try to look for a place that they're not available. They're on the Android store, the app store, Google Play, Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, all that good stuff. Download Hoopla. It's free if you got a public library card. For more information about Hoopla and how to sign up, hey, check out one of the many helpful links in this episode, show notes.  Catherine, any parting words or shameless plugs before we wrap up? Vartar, I want to thank you so much for having me today. This was...

51:17
So awesome to get to talk about content because I'm so passionate about it and content specifically on Hoopla. I love it. um And most importantly, I really appreciate your shout outs to the libraries and supporting your libraries.  It's absolutely like everybody's action item. We want to keep libraries around. We want to keep them growing. um They serve, they service the community in a way that nobody else quite can. um Going back to what you had mentioned earlier, I was a latchkey kid too. So

51:45
libraries were my safe place. got to learn a lot of the library, right? Because you got access to everything that was there physically. um So keep up supporting those local libraries, you guys.  It's so, important for our communities to have access to those libraries, um both in person as well as digitally, because there's a lot that those um brick and mortar library locations are offering as far as other services today, even outside of content. um So support, support, support. Thanks so much. Here we go.

52:12
Amen. All right, listeners, stick around for the outro. You guys have been great and I'll catch you next week. All right. Peace.  There you have it, ShortBikes Nation. That's the end of the show.  Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here.  And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortbikesjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode,  help us spread the word. Share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do.

52:41
And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. Leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes,  and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box.  It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show  and get rewarded for being a fan.

53:09
Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box.  Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chittani,  R.C. Gamet, BJ Kix, Blake Simone,  Blythe Milligan,  Bo Evers,  Brian Brumley, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Happi, David Morales,  Greg Lictype, Hershel,  Mack Jacobson,  issue number three, Brad,  Jay Sinner, Jeff Fremid, Jerome Cabanatan, Jose Sepulveda,  Justin McCoy, Corey Torgeson.

53:38
Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin, Melissa Burton,  Nick Wagner,  Ryan Isaacson, Steven Ginn,  T-Mix,  The Wait For It Podcast, Tony Aupie,  Trey Namo,  Walter Gant,  and last but not least,  Warren Evans. Big shout outs to the patrons. And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode.  And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon.

54:08
Peace!