Chip Mosher and David Steinberger are shining a neon spotlight on digital comics. An interview about DSTLRY, creator equity, and Neon Ichiban - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 477

00:02
in this episode of The Short Box.  Our challenge really is going to be like,  dude, chill out. You can just buy and read a comic. It's fine. And by the way, like it's turning out that people are putting on comics for less than cover price  into the marketplace so you can get them even cheaper. Like it's okay.  But yeah, getting people past that like,  oh, this feels like an NFT and so I can't do it. It's like, no, you can own it and read it.  Let me be clear. We have nothing to do with NFTs.  We are not on the blockchain.  There is no cryptocurrency.

00:31
I used real money to buy those comics.  Yeah, it's only real money, right? Sorry.

00:42
intro music plays

01:06
Yo, Short Box Nation, hello again, welcome back, and thanks for pressing play today. If you're brand new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. This is episode 477, and today I'm joined by David Steinberger and Chip Mosher, Comixology pioneers and the co-founders of DSTLRY. David is the co-founder and former CEO of Comixology.

01:31
And Chip is a comic book industry veteran with experience in publishing, marketing and editorial. And he also helped launch the creator owned Comixology original line  in 2018. Together in 2023, though, David and Chip co-founded Distillery, the Eisner winning boutique publisher and groundbreaking digital marketplace. And now in 2025, they're introducing the next evolution in digital comics and manga with Neon Ichiban.  Which is just a fun word to say, Neon Ichiban.

01:58
It's a vibrant new digital comics platform designed to serve readers, collectors, creators, and publishers alike. The platform offers single issues and collected editions of comics and manga on the same day as their print availability. Participating publishers include Dark Horse Comics, DC, Distillery, Kodansha,  Marvel Comics, Oni Press, and Vault Comics so far. David and Chip claim to know what's been missing or what's been lost in today's digital platforms  and what needs to come next.

02:25
And that's why they're here on the show today. We'll talk about how things are going with the  DSTLRY and what comic fans like us can expect from Neon Ichiban. But before we get into that, I want to shout out the official sponsor of the Short Box, which is Gotham City Limit, Jacksevilles' premier shop for comics, toys, collectibles, and more. Check out this episode shown us for a link to their online store, GothamCityLimit.com, where you can buy and shop for exclusive comics and merch. And lastly, I want to dedicate this episode to all the Short Box Patronis, aka the friends, family, and loyal supporters that make up the Short Box Patreon community.

02:54
If you want to support what I do, if you want to help me keep the show going in exchange for some great rewards,  then consider joining the Short Box Elite at patreon.com slash the short box. I also do free comic giveaways on the Patreon every month, and you don't even need to be a paying member to take part in the giveaways. Check it out for yourself at patreon.com slash short box. Big shout out to all the Patronis out there. And without further ado, let's welcome David Steinberger and Chip Mosher through the show. David Chip.

03:22
Welcome to the podcast. nice. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. What up? All right. First and foremost, hey, thank you both so much for being here and sharing your time with me. I know for a fact you guys are both very busy people. So thank you for coming on. bet. Never too busy for you. Oh, that means a lot. You say that to all the comic podcast hosts. That's true. That's true. I think it's safe to say I have read

03:48
probably over 100,000 words about the both of you between DSTLRY and Neon. Ichiban, I've read articles from Publisher Weekly, Comics Beat, Big Shout Out to Heidi McDonald,  Pop Verse, New York Times, all of these great publications trying to get caught up and do my research about you guys. But one thing I noticed that's lacking in a lot of those interviews with full respect is that I didn't really get to know you as comic fanboys from those. So what I would like to do.

04:17
to start this interview is ask you a question based on one of the questions that Neon Ichiban asked you when you initially set up your profile. I did find it kind of cool that it asked you a personalization survey. And the first question that it asked you is, what publishers do you follow? David, you want to take that first? Oh, man. Well, I'm a Marvel kid from way back.  grew up  on, well, actually the first two comics I bought were Major the Hero Discovered, like number eight or something, from Matt Wagner.

04:47
Kamiko, I don't know if we say Kamiko, is that how you Yeah, Kamiko. Yeah. And an amazing Spider-Man or spectacular Spider-Man or something like that. And I was just hooked. And I was very nerdy and kind of an outcast at that time. So I felt a kinship with Peter Parker. So I still keep up with Marvel DC. I'm more into comics these days. And I've collected a lot of art from Matt Wagner, made the, Chip has too, who made the

05:17
the mage series. But yeah, I mean, at this point, I got hooked on the absolute line a little bit more recently. But I mean, I have to follow everyone, at least in terms of their output. I can't read everything. I don't have time for that. But for their output, I've to follow everybody, give them the job, right? Yeah, solid answer. All right, Chip, what about you? Yeah, mean, like currently, you know, it's kind of sharp shooting. Like my current reading habits, you know, it's like I'm

05:46
I have so many people  that I work with, that I'm friends with,  I try to keep up.  I  read issue five of this,  issue one of that. ah So ah I've uh enjoyed  recently the cruel universe, the EC reboot  that Oni has done, uh had some good stuff. uh

06:14
Kurt Peters' Lost Fantasy is really great.  The Marvel stuff that uh Stephanie Phillips is doing, I'm gonna leave people out. mean, Snyder and Dragata's Absolute Batman is  fantastic. I can't wait for The Absolute Joker.  And a touchstone book that David and I have a uh lot in common about is  Mage by Matt Wagner.  David owns a couple of pages, a of pages. I own a cover, maybe.

06:43
You don't have to be sure. Flex right there, David. It's right here, actually. here. You don't have to cover. It's my pride and joy. I traded X-Men 94 through 100 for Grendel Primer, number two page, and a mage page. Still super happy with that trade, because I have one of a kind of art. I learned this year that you were, I don't know how far back, but I know that for this year's New York Comic Con Harvey Awards,

07:11
that you were a member of the steering committee. And I was just curious, like, what does that entail being a member of the steering committee? And how long have you been, I guess, involved with the Harveys? I got involved in the Harveys 2018. Did some work with Dennis Kitchen when I was at Boom Studios and we became friendly. And Dennis had been Harvey Kurtzman's art agent agent. And then after Harvey died, he was representing the family.

07:41
and the Kurtzman family uh really wanted the awards to come back to New York City where uh Harvey worked.  And so once they set up the awards at New York Comic Con, they wanted some people in the industry to just make sure that  things were  going the way it needed to be. And so me  and uh my pal, John Lind,  were recruited for the... oh

08:10
for the steering committee. John's  longtime book designer uh editor  has done some fantastic work. He did the John Romita Senior Art Book for Marvel that Dark Horse published. It's amazing.  When you're doing awards, there's some things that crop up and issues, and you really want awards to be representative uh of the industry and be...

08:38
you know,  in my viewpoint and in John's and Nellie Kurtzman, who's also on the steering committee, who's Harvey's daughter,  to guide people's reading choices.  And so, uh so we, you know, the first thing we did when it went to New York is we changed the award. you know, it used to be very similar to the Eisner's, it's like best letter, best artist.  And we changed it to book of the year, manga of the year. So it was really about the end product. And it's the only award ceremony that

09:06
The only awards  in comics, it's really about uh the whole uh expression  of comics. It's the collaborative art form. We have nothing to do with the voting.  We  keep a wall between us. Because Nellie's at McMillan, I'm at Distillery, and before that it was at Comic-Sale, and John Lenn has publishing stuff. So we try to keep  a wall there. uh

09:35
but it's nice to be a part of it  and be something that  helps promote the industry. It was my first year um attending not only just to Harvey's, but any comic award show. And I got to say, I had such a fun time at this year's Harvey. Okay. I've never been to a comic book after party with an open bar. Okay. I was in heaven. then my friends, Brad and Lisa Gullickson of the Comic Book Cups Council, were hosting the event. I was in Nirvana. I had a great time. So big shout outs to you.

10:06
and the entire team for throwing such a great event. Yeah, they did a fantastic job hosting. Totally agree. David, I want to go to you because me and you were speaking about comicsology  a little bit before I hit record. Founded 18 years ago in 2007, you're here in 2025 launching  a brand new digital comics platform.  In your opinion, based on your experience, on a scale of one to 10, 10 being drastically different and almost unrecognizable,

10:35
How much has digital comics changed in the 18 years that you've been in the business? Have we come 18 years far? Has the technology advanced and in your opinion?  Oh, that's a really good question. um Yeah, I think so, right? Because  we predate Webtoon. Comicsology predates Webtoon. And so I think that's a phenomenon you can't ignore. You've got a public company that's worth two point some billion dollars based on worldwide comics and manga. um You've got

11:04
Amazon is a major player,  although less so than they were a few years ago. um So  and then you have  Nyan Ichiban, which we think is differentiating itself in multiple ways. So has it gone far enough? Probably not. There are a bunch of things that we want to do in comixology that still haven't been done, ah even at this point with Nyan Ichiban, but hopefully will be. ah So I'm excited about that. But yeah, I think I I think at this point you could say

11:33
There have been,  with Neon Ichiban, second, this is like the,  you call it the second or third generation of digital, if you put comic solid at the beginning.  Although there are a couple of little things before that,  but nothing that has lasted, other than Marvel Unlimited, which actually predates comic solid by a year or two.  Wait, Marvel Unlimited came out before comic solid? Yeah, they had their own platform,  web only, web only. I don't know if it was every comic at that point. I don't even, I don't remember exactly the form of it,  but yeah, they had their own thing.

12:01
They had their own thing. then, course, we did the retail side of Marvel and DC at Comicsology.  In fact, they still did it until just a couple of years ago.  Chip, was telling David before you joined us that  in my freshman year of college, I think this is like 2009 or 10,  I wrote maybe my most,  the paper that I'm still most proud of as a 36 year old, and it was about the future of digital comics. And at the time, uh Marvel had the AR uh technology.

12:31
which blew my whatever 18 year old, 19 year old mind. So in my opinion, it is crazy to see how far, you know, just how far digital comics and technology and comics has come. I still think there's room for obviously innovation in like some disruption. think we really need like a good, you know, shaking up the industry. So I am excited to hear and learn more about Neon Ichiban. Neon Ichiban, I said it's a very fun word to say. How did you guys land on the name Neon Ichiban? Like  what does it mean?

12:58
I I wish I wish we could, you know, we did a hell of a lot more work on distillery than we did on the on it. Uh, OK, so for so a couple of things. You're not supposed to admit that, David. We really thought about it deeply. Well, I mean, it isn't without a bunch of writing and experimentation with some stuff, but it was was a lot faster, I guess, in the story. once. Good save. We wanted something that could signal the ambition. You know, we have.

13:26
manga and comics. And we think about it as kind of one house for all  sequential graphic storytelling, however you want to put that, for manga and comics, inclusively. um We think there's a real opportunity for this model to work worldwide. In Japan, of course, it's the biggest market for that.  played around with...  I  like  the idea of kind of throwback techno, like almost future tech, retro future tech.

13:56
And Neon somehow fits that nicely because you think about the, I had this image of like the  open markets  in Japan where they're in Tokyo, where they're like, it's kind of narrow  alleyways where people are walking across the street. Lots of Neon signs and that type of thing. So I thought Neon was really fun to play with. We played around with Ichi-ba, which means market and Ichi-ban, which means uh one or the top best.  we just,  and honestly Neon Ichi-ban

14:24
with the end on the end felt better to say. And  I love that you said that because we got this asked same question by over at the beat.  And uh I said to Heidi, said, plus it's just fun to say. So people are going to remember what it is. They're going to remember what it is. So here you're the first person to say that back to me. It's the first person to say that back to me. So I was like, yes,  inside my heart, my heart got a little bigger and felt better about life in the world. Glad to hear about David.

14:54
mean,  behind the veil at Comixology slash Amazon, uh David's well known as the CEO of Comixology co-founder, the thing that a lot of people didn't know that he was head of comics  globally at Amazon. And so  he built the Emanga team in Japan uh and spent a ton of time over there. then my team...

15:22
pre-dating Comixology originals, we uh were the uh Ivan Salazar, who's now at Kadacha. We onboarded Kadacha onto not just Comixology, but the Kibble platform. So we have a lot of uh touch  points with manga, with the Japanese publishers. It really kind of comes from that.  Which I think is notable and impressive when you consider, if I'm not mistaken,

15:50
I think Kodansha has their own app or digital platform. So,  you know, like they could have easily looked at you guys as competition, but I understand like they were pretty big investors into Distillery and Neon Ichiban as well as I'm forgetting the name of the individual, but you guys even have like buy-in from the French comic side of the house too.  Oh yeah, Delcor. Thank you, Delcor. How important was it to get buy-in on like this kind of global scale? Oh, super important. think, I think for us like having

16:19
ah having built the trust that we did at Comixology with all these different publishers worldwide, Comixology and Amazon. ah I think for us, having that validation was a very big deal.  And Chip initially when he wrote this up, had them both as target investors right from the start. ah So it's super satisfying that that happened.  It's  been great. think  Kodansh in particular has been a

16:47
don't want to say faithful sounds like a weird personalization of it all, like they've been faithful investors and partners, you know, and want to do more with us. And so being able to go same day as print for manga right out of the gate and somebody in a company as big as Kanoncha USA was really great for the brand. And so I'd call it very important. You know, the three biggest, the three biggest countries for comics are in, right? So. Yeah, definitely.

17:16
You know, uh Alvin Liu,  who's president of Kenachie USA, uh has been fantastic to work with and was someone that we did a lot of business with  at Comixology. Comixology Originals, uh we underwrote the completion of uh Drops of God, the translation of Drops of God, which is now an Apple Plus TV show. And then Delcore uh is our publishing

17:46
on the distillery side is  publishes uh our collected editions  in French  over there. They do a fantastic job. So I mentioned in the intro, and really I kind of lifted some copy off the Neon Ichiban website, but  there is a line that says that Neon Ichiban  will fulfill the promise of being the next evolution in digital comics and manga. And I wanted to hear from both of you, like,

18:13
uh If you could expand on that, what is Neon Ichiban doing different from some of these other apps that we've already spoken about from your comics, your Marvel Unlimited, or even like the Viz Media and all of that? How is Neon Ichiban? How have you guys carved a unique space for Neon Ichiban? Yeah, I pulled that down to the three things that we put up on every single page for  the comic or item that you're buying.  The first is that,  and all this is publisher-opted, and we've gotten some

18:42
some good publisher opt-ins. So the first is that the books, the items that you buy  can be resellable. And so we have a marketplace and we addition number everything that you buy. ah And for publishers that want to participate,  we have variant covers as well. So Marvel, for instance, is a publisher that's variant covers.  And in  the first seven days of availability, after the same day as print, you can buy any of those variant covers for the regular cover price. After that, only the cover A or the main cover would

19:12
I think Marvel calls it cover one, but main covers continues to be available. And a sketch cover, if there's a sketch cover. uh Everything else is, that's it. If they sold a hundred of those  in the first week, it's edition number one through a hundred in order of purchase. And then those people who own those can resell them if they want. You don't have to, right? You can behave like it's a Kindle and it's just a license to read,  or you can resell that. And we're seeing some really interesting behavior in there. People selling it. Yeah, there's some stupid prices on there, like edition ones for $500. uh

19:42
And then there's like $1 comics because somebody wants to turn it over and get a little money in their account so they can spend money on the next comic. I think that's great. I think there's  going to be a really interesting low cost option for a lot of people to try out new comics. The second is what we call remarkable.  In a remark, traditionally in comics ah and books is you take your book to somebody at a signing and they, uh for comics, a lot of times the artist will actually draw something in there, ah know, little what they call a remark or  signature.

20:12
uh And then you have this really great one-of-one collectible, essence, a book that you have that you can uh treasure or resell if you really want to.  And so we built that into distillery for us, and it's part of Neon Ichiban as well, in that as an owner, you can go to a convention, bring up a QR code for that edition of the book you own, hand it to an artist, they can scan it on their iPad and sign or sketch on it.  And we'll also have commissionable remarks there. Or creators can own

20:41
editions themselves and remark on their own editions. As we verify creators and their identity, you can get a verified signature where somebody put Apple Pencils to screen, if you want to say, pen to paper, and have been verified through us through a process. They can get comp editions from their publisher or they can buy their own and do a sketch on a sketch cover and sell that marketplace. It's a new revenue source for creators.

21:10
That's a really important thing given our history with distillery in that we have uh creators that are equity holders in the company. They're building equity by being a part of our initial group. uh Then finally, we've got what we call downloadable, but may have to change the name. Downloadable means that you can grab a PDF file from us as a local backup. ah Why I say we may need to change the name is because if you have the app,

21:40
you'll always be able to download and read offline, no matter if it's downloadable or not. This is really about you taking possession of a PDF. If you're one of those people that like, I want my MP3s, I don't  want to subscription service on my MP3. I don't want a license that's stuck in Kindle. I want something to be able to download and read in my own PDF reader. We'll be out for that too. And so that can be DRM free or can be DRM, so to speak, depending on the publisher. I was just about to ask if it's the same concept as like DRM free, cause you're speaking to someone that is

22:09
absolutely I want to own my MP3 or my comic that I'm buying online. Yeah. And so when you get to any item in the whole  catalog for Neon Ichiban, uh it'll have three check marks and it'll say, this is resellable or not, this is remarkable or not, this is downloadable or not, and what kind of download it is. uh Distillery, for instance, is going to be DRM free PDF. Good to hear. So I mentioned earlier, I started an account about a week ago or two weeks ago and I've already bought

22:38
a of comics. bought a couple of issues, the latest issues of Mr. Terrific Year One, because my guy Al Letson is writing it. Big shout out to, he's a fellow Jacksonville guy, big shout out to Al. And then I bought a manga series, oh, Ashita Nojo Fighting for Tomorrow, which is a series I've always wanted to read. I've heard that it's, you know, held in high regard in the fact that like, you guys have it on here. It's like, why not? Let me try a little bit of both worlds. Now,

23:04
I did want to test something out with the resellable market. ended up posting my, I think, Mr. Terrific, one of the issues of Mr. Terrific on the marketplace for like two bucks. And now,  and this is me being fully transparent and hopefully an opportunity to learn. I am someone that is that you would call a digital hoarder. I have  so many external hard drives around this house. I just recently built my own NAS because I have so much  like local files. And I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around

23:33
the concept of my digital comic holding value to anyone else but myself. How would you explain it to someone like me or even a layman that these ones and zeros have value, that there is a potential marketplace for it? I guess the word that I see online, some of the critique I see around this concept is like, is digital scarcity really a thing when it comes to digital comics if you could just produce these things infinitely?

24:01
How do ones and zeros have monetary value for resaleability? Yeah. You want to tackle this, Chip, or you want me to tackle it? I'm happy to. You know, I can tackle it one way and you can tackle it another. So the Mr. Terrific, how much did you buy the single issue for? We'll call it like $5? I think it like $4.99. And then how much did you put up for sale? $2. I was like, know, if I make half my money back, I'm good. There you go. You've answered your question.

24:31
Yeah,  there are two ends to it, right? mean,  let me put it this way. We don't have this built for Nyaniji-Ban yet, but for distillery books, we, for instance, if you owned, uh we did this thing where the same kind of thing, the QR code, what we call proof, proof of ownership. We did a deal at New York Comic Con last year, not this past one, but a year ago, where if you showed your QR code, you could get the toy, the physical toy from Somna for half the price.

25:00
So you said like, I'm a fan, I'm an owner.  get to,  I can prove I own this right now. I get to have some benefits to that. And we did, we did special covers that you could only buy if you own something. We did special print covers you could only buy if you own something. And I think doing that at scale, getting that up and running for all publishers, if they want to participate in that could be really, really fun. Cause you're saying like, I can prove I'm a fan, I'm an owner here. ah You know, for some people it's just pride of ownership, but I think where it really starts to make a difference and we're going to prove this or not over the next

25:30
years to uh is where artists get to come in and create one-on-one. I mean, yes, can somebody take a screenshot of it? In most places we have remarks, have watermarks on it, so you can't actually uh get the original. But regardless, of course,  people can figure out ways. You can probably use AI to take out a watermark. I don't know at this point. But it's more a pride of ownership of very visibly supporting a creator, of getting close to the creator in terms of owning a piece of their artwork.

26:00
they've we verified they put their hand to paper on. That type of thing, I think, does have value. And then, of course, you've got some speculation and that type of thing, which we don't really care about. Honestly, the people that put up the books, it frustrated me to no end to see that 500 and $700 books right out of the gate. like, you know, in fact, we changed the sorting, we changed the initial sorting now, which we may change again. But right now it's from low to high. It was from high to low. Just we just didn't even think about it honestly. And like total turnoff 700 bucks. OK.

26:30
No, no,  yeah. But I really like what you're doing. I actually really think that the OK, I'm going to speak out of turn here, but digital comics cost too much. Generally speaking, right. That has been my comic book hot take for years that digital books should not be the same.  That is, of course, like dismissing a lot of different math and  justifications for it. But it actually isn't that much. It isn't that much because obviously you're spending money on printing and shipping and all that stuff that you don't spend a digital whatever.

26:59
I try to convince publishers for how many years did you say it's been? 18?  18 years?  And as a store owner, can't set pricing. You can't even collude on pricing, right? You can just say, here's the evidence.  this market is built around collecting. It's built around scarcity. It's built around that. And so  we  are making an attempt to say, we can provide value against scarcity. We can provide  whether that's the special covers or proof or the signatures or the things that really do make a difference and feel like

27:30
a fan can get closer to a creator. In that way, I think that we are making a difference in the quality of what this means to own something. But I really do love the idea of you going, all right, I'm going to put every book that I don't treasure and don't need to have on my NAS drive, back up for sale to make a couple bucks. And somebody else comes in and goes, I wouldn't take a chance on this comic for $5, but I will for two. Sure. Yeah.

27:55
And then maybe we get another fan out of that and they start buying up and then they get so excited they buy the same day as Brent and then they get or start getting signatures and that creator can make more money. I mean, that's the dream,  Yeah,  I mean, I think there's a couple of things and a couple of things that are going on in just the, they used to call it the comics blindosphere, but the blinds are a thought. Just the conversation that goes on. eh A, first and foremost, I think it's, there's a,

28:24
There's a generational divide where I think people 20, 30 years younger than the three of us, they  intrinsically find value in digital goods. For instance,  my stepdaughter has an allowance to buy pants and clothes for one of their characters on an app. It's not a  competitive app, it's just  an open sandbox app.

28:54
that they really love and they love dressing up their character and that has real value to  them.  And so for the kids growing up right now, being able to buy and sell digital goods in the video game space and stuff is just,  it's kind of second  nature. uh And then  secondly, I think  most of the journalists  in

29:22
in comics are big readers and they're less collectors. And I think the great, the thing that I love about comics and I love about the medium and the hobby is that there's so many ways to participate. And the industry is twice the size plus all that extra stuff from Webtoon and all that. Absolutely. And so, you know, I think, you know, there's a ton of

29:52
people who are buying comics in the direct market that wake up every morning looking for like what comic they, you know, what particular comic, what cover, what number, what they're going to buy that week. And that does not get a lot of uh ink.  And, you know, I think, you know, in 2020 during quarantine, you had like whatnot and the whatnot stores come out of the online stores and you saw a big surge in uh collecting.

30:22
that hasn't quite abated, which has been fantastic for the industry. And so with Nyanituban, we're trying to serve, know, if you just want to read comics, it's great. We have 100 plus free comics on nyanituban.com right now. So if you just want to read comics, we got you covered. If you want to collect comics, every comic has an edition of them. We have variants.

30:51
I mean, we have so many ways for people to participate in the collecting of comics that, you know, it's a lot of fun. And with reMarks, there's providence. So, Becky Clunin, for instance, when we were basically prototyping the Anichibana distillery.co, Becky Clunin would, you know, sketch on a somna number one and sell it and write a little note and go, here's you know, here's a little piece of art I did on...

31:21
cover of the first issue from the co-creator. And that note  is attached to that comic forever. And so the person that bought that has the prominence. They bought the digital comic signed and sketched by Becky Clunin. On this day. On this day. We're doing a lot of crazy stuff all at once.  because  the comic book,  the hobby, for lack of a better term, is

31:49
It has a lot of crazy elements to it all at once too. If you're a reader, you can just read. you're a can collect. You can collect CGC slab books.  You can collect ungraded books. You know, there's, there's all different sorts of people out there participating in our crazy industry. And, uh, and it's fantastic. And Neon Ichiban is, is really a celebration of all of that. I think it's, you can't talk about comic book culture without talking about those two sides of the same coin. You know, being a reader,

32:18
the art form, but also the commerce and collectability side. I think some folks just feel very strongly on either or the spectrum and they can usually be the loudest ones. I do really respect what you guys have built, both with Distillery and Neon Ichiban, especially of Distillery. was reading your comics beat article when you guys announced Distillery and you guys were very adamant about like, hey, you know, we are trying to give creators a better deal than historically like many of them have had, you know, like.

32:46
We're giving them a revenue share and paying them accordingly. uh even like the digital, the resale side, they get a cut of that. It sounds like  for life it seems, which I think is  kind of mind blowing. I do respect the innovation that you guys are bringing. Where you're trying to bring the fun of the physical collecting  aspect, the resale, the trading, the limited things into the digital space. Like let's be real, it hasn't been done. And I  think some folks are still trying to wrap their mind around that.

33:15
I think the uphill battle that you guys have, in my  humble opinion, that it almost, I think it reminds people too much of NFTs. And NFTs are are kind of icky if we're being real. Like the wrong people were pushing NFTs, especially like during COVID. And I think so many people got tired of it just got a weird vibe.  I can see how folks might look at this and compare a lot of it to NFTs. But I know that you guys have also been adamant that, this is...

33:41
Not NFTs. None of this is fungible. Like, yes, we track, you know,  the provenance of these sales and things like that, but it's not NFTs. And I think that that's just where you guys are at is like that education, like constantly having to educate, you know, potential uh users that, you know, the difference between what you guys are doing and what NFTs are. I think either Chip or David, both have said it, but it's not like I have to participate in the resell. Like if I just strictly want to  use it as a reader, it's great so far. I've been having a great time.

34:11
Is the app available really quick? forgot to Is Neon, it should want app? Not yet. It should be in, it's actually like near hours away from being turned into Apple for beta, for public beta. And so we will be, we will be slipping that link around a little bit. But it shouldn't be in beta very long. It's actually really in solid shape. We're just, making some changes to our login right now. The magic link is just a pain in the butt. And just about to say that might be my least. So we're, so

34:40
Oh, yeah, it's terrible. It was supposed to be easier. It's terrible. It was supposed to be easier was like, you know, you don't have to have a password. It's great that way. Except sometimes it's slow and you got to go to your email and like, Oh, man. So we've got Google, Apple login coming and a regular login password coming. And I tested it out this morning with my own account and it worked perfectly. didn't I, you know, got to log in with Google. And then I logged in with Apple both tried them both and took over my

35:10
It added that login capability to my account. So that was great. Yeah. I do think, to go back to your thought about the collectibles and the NFT stuff, we tried to take the best parts of that, which is the provenance, and make that really easy and clear with verified creators only. Creators, they had artwork stolen and put up fraudulently. And there's no authority out there for that.

35:36
the blockchain to tell you what's the real one. So if you see any distillery book on the blockchain, it's not real. The only place you're going to get that is Neon Ichiban, right?  And so there's that. But also, just the  proof parts, the remark parts, I think it's all, you know, making good on the promise of the  better parts of NTPs. But yeah, think that's our challenge really is going to be like, dude, chill out. You can just buy and read a comic. It's fine. And by the way, like it's turning out that people are putting on comics for less than cover price.

36:04
into the marketplace so can get them even cheaper. Like, it's okay. You don't have to do this. And you know, if you feel a little weird about it, you feel like the rug is going to be pulled or something like, go ahead and download it. They'll take it out of the marketplace. You can't post something for sale once you've downloaded that file. But that's yours. Like that's, that's why we have this kind of suite of possibilities. But yeah, getting people past that like, well, this feels like an NFT. And so I can't do it. It's like, oh, you can own it and read it. And let me be clear. Let me be clear.

36:32
We have nothing to do with NFTs. We are not on the blockchain. There is no cryptocurrency. NFTs are not something that we're doing. I used real money to buy those comics. Yeah, it's only real money, right? Sorry. uh You guys got me thinking. I think one of you guys brought up Jock. If I'm not mistaken, a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago, his cover for, and I'm drawing a blank on the issue number, but his infamous cover of Joker made out of like the bats.

37:00
Right? Like the original art for that. Detective, like,  yeah, was Detective Comics. Yeah, it was one of his famous covers, but it recently sold for a couple, it sold for a very pretty penny. Yeah. Rush job, by the way. That was a rush job. Mike Marks, who was over at Bad Cave, who's a bit a friend of mine for  a bit. uh Marks was the editor on Detective.  And I was like, man, it's so cool that cover, you know, sold for so much. And he was like,

37:29
You know, for some reason, you know, I came to the office that day and I was like, how am I missing a cover for detective? I need a cover quick. But I called up, I called up Jock. He's like, I got you. And I got this the next day. It was great. And I went up to Jock and I was like, you never told me this was like a rush job. I looked it up. had to do it's $288,000. Okay. So let's, let's press pause there for a second. Talking to Jock. And I remember this conversation. This brings it up for me.

37:58
about like, hey, do you think you would want to assign or have resellable digital comments? you want to do that? Talking about NFTs and all that stuff and how distasteful they are. And him saying like, and I think at that point, the biggest cover he had sold had been resold was like 50 grand or something, which is also a lot of fricking money. And he was like, if I got a little piece of that each time it resold, that would have been incredible. That would have been incredible because as I...

38:26
work really hard to  improve my reputation, to deliver incredible artwork and storytelling, and my value becomes higher, I don't get any participation in the stuff that goes for that kind of money because it was so long ago, and I'm not attached to that in any way. And so I don't think it'd be a good sign if things were going for $288,000 on  YouTube, but if something goes for 50 bucks and he gets to participate, and again, Becky's actually made some real money on the side by  just participating regularly,  then  that says like,

38:55
as any creator's reputation grows, they get to participate in that resale. I think that's pretty cool. I respect that both of you are trying to get these creators paid. And until someone comes up with a better solution, hats off to you guys. What was the driving force or the decision for Neon Ichiban to be separate from Distillery Digital? Because as far as I understand it, Distillery Digital had a lot of the features that you guys have brought up. The remarks, the...

39:22
the ability to sell your comics, all of that was capable  on Distillery Digital, but that has now become Neon Ichiban. guess why was it important to  make Neon Ichiban its own thing and not just keep it with Distillery? Do you mean like rather than  opening up Distillery to be multi-publisher? Sure, yeah. Yeah, I think the most important thing,  and Chip, I'm gonna just use your words here. You know, as a store for multiple publishers, we're a brand of brands. And Distillery has a very distinct, we work really hard to...

39:50
feel like an entire brand born whole, so to speak, know, born fully formed. We thought a lot about the creators. We thought a lot about what could make life better for them and what would get us the best content to work with. And we took a lot of risks. We made these bigger size issues in print, which is, know, antithetical to digital, obviously, but bigger, you know, to let the artwork really shine, really create, you know, 40, 48 pages worth of content each time.

40:21
So at nine bucks, you're actually getting more than two issues worth of artwork for sure than any Marvel or DC book or any regular comic. uh All those things, that's not the same thing as a marketplace. And for me, really felt like Distillery needed to be its own thing and continue to carry that brand and that ethos with it. Now, there's a lot of relationships between Neon Ichiban and  the ethos of trying to get creators more revenue streams, get them close to fans.

40:48
make things collectible, those types of things that we put into distillery. But it really is a distinct thing.  We had and plus like,  we're treating every publisher equally  at Neon Ijivan. And so publishers like Markle in DC, I'm sorry to say to everybody are more important to the for the industry and for Neon Ijivan to be successful than distillery right now.  And,  know, promoting yourself. David,  That's not true. That's not true.

41:17
You know, I hope for, for, you know, for our creators, if they feel like, you know, we've done all right, but, uh, and the content is great. It's award winning chips. So don't worry about that. Talk that shit. It is award winning. But, know, you, you, publishers don't want to feel like we're getting, we're just going to constantly put distillery in front. Now we're using it for free issues every week. We have a different free number one issue from distillery right now. I think it's next week. I think it's some of the next week. Yeah. Spectra graph right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be some.

41:47
It'll be Somna when this podcast airs. So Somna number one, know, later edition number, but completely free. You don't have to do anything in the marketplace. You can just read it. Just enjoy it. then you can resell it if you want it. If you want can make some money off of a free comic. Well, on the topic of Distillery, in the two years that Distillery has been active, you guys got a murderers row of founders and creators on the roster. You got an Eisner Award for best new series for Somna. shout out to Becky Clunin and Tula Lete.

42:16
I want to hear Chip, what are you most proud of when it comes to distillery and what can fans expect next from distillery in the coming years? Like it sounds like you guys are putting obviously a lot of focus, attention, manpower behind Neon Ichiban, but it's safe to probably assume that you guys are not going to let distillery fall by the wayside. Like what can fans expect coming forward?  I'm really proud  of, uh you know, what David mentioned before establishing  brand, you know, fairly

42:47
immediately. uh I think people  are,  you know, when they hear the word distillery or see the brand, they know it's like top notch, top quality,  you know, the diversity of titles we have, I think is pretty astounding from Somna, which is like an erotic romantic,  you know, period piece to life, which is a flip book, you know, with, you know,

43:16
by Brian Azzarello and Stephanie Phillips with Dean Olsedge, are to Ryan Stegman and Jason Howard doing missionary to, you know, I mean, just in the history of the Eisner's, there's never been a first year publisher that has won Best New Series. It has won anything for themselves by themselves. And you know, the quality of the print, they oversized all of it. Yeah. there's a very distinct brand.  And also, I think you got, you got the creators you attracted, Chip, and I got to give kudos to

43:45
ship, did all the hard work, you know, really points to like a trust and, and,  and honestly, like them earning equity in that it's been a huge part of our relationship to them. Obviously, diamond went bankrupt in January. And so it's been a really weird year for us for publishing because we were caught up in that. And so we put out less books by far this year. And the creators have been lifesavers, frankly, and  it means a lot. Yeah. And all the creators that have equity in distillery, you know, are

44:13
participated in, know, Neon Ichiban is  part of Distillery Inc. So they're equity holders in that too.  So, you know, we get their feedback on Neon Ichiban and yeah, it's been fantastic. Fantastic. David, I understand that before, you know, before the launch of Neon Ichiban, you were pretty much close to like looking to do other work, going to different fields and industries.  Oh yeah.

44:42
If you weren't working in comics, what other business or industry would you be passionate about?  Okay, sure.  Look, I've always just kind of tinkered with the computer.  I don't know if you've got any research. You probably did, but I was  a performance, a music performance uh major. Yeah. Vocal performance. I still love singing an opera. ah But  honestly, at this point, given where we are in the world  and

45:09
I had a great experience for the first five or six years at Amazon. I would go back to just inventing smaller things probably, some software that I really like for my own life that might work for other people as well. Start a little more modestly on something like that. But industry-wise, if I could make money doing opera, being any part of opera or theater or performance in any way, which has got to be almost as hard as...

45:37
as doing comics, creating comics and being successful, uh money-wise,  I would do that, something related to the other. Really quick follow-up question on that. Whatever names come to mind, who are some of your favorite singers or vocal performers, whether they be in opera or any other genre? Just what comes to mind?  Oh,  well,  look, Luciano Pavarotti was  the greatest thing I'd ever heard. And I got to see him multiple times in the  1990s while he was still really singing incredibly well.

46:08
So he's one of my favorites. There's a guy named Dwayne Croft that people don't know very well that was kind of a regular singer at the Met. I kind of idolized him. had the same voice teacher as I had, and he sang between baritone and tenor. And he did a lot of really cool roles that I love through that. And there are a couple of recordings of him. But honestly, Luciano Pavarotti, mean, the Metropolitan Opera, which Chip went to with me the other day for Cavalier and Clay, related to comics, by the way.

46:33
We were all the way in the back and it's a huge space, right, Chip? mean, it's a huge, huge space. and Pavarotti could do this thing where he would, I mean, he would do this thing, he just sang, but it would feel like it was like three feet from you, even up there. It was just something really special about that. So I would, I would always recommend that. All right, Chip. And then, uh, same question to you. If you had the ability to work in a different industry, uh, I guess what industry or business would you want to get into? Well, if I could write faster, write comics.

47:03
I've written two comics in 20 years. You know, so I'm proud of both of them, but I'm just like the slowest creative person ever. So I have a third comic, you know, that'll be finished in something. Look for it in 2030. Yeah, 2030, 20. I've to, you know, I have 2007- announcing it now.

47:30
2008, 2007, eight, 2020 was my 2021 was my next. Oh, so that'd be improvement. Yeah, would be an improvement. You know, I'm a big genealogy nut. I've helped like two people like find, you know, family members. Wow. Yeah. And I, you know, that would be fun. I really, I really enjoy teaching people about

48:00
uh, financial literacy and, and stuff. And I've helped a bunch of people with their 401ks and IRAs and Roths. And I find that, you know, a lot of fun. All right. Quick side story. We're in Montana planning distillery. We were there for 10 days in my uncle's place. He was not there. So it was just two of us. We actually drove up to a spot outside Missoula to see an unmarked grave of your great grandfather. Great, great.

48:30
Great great grandfather on Mark great. He'd been murdered. So like been murdered when he says he's into genealogy. He's into genealogy. The headline in the newspaper was butcher knife to the neck.  Oh, no. So I'm sorry. Yeah. a laugh. That's fucking fun. No, you know,  my forex great grandfather,  William Henry Mosher, I'm supposed to get a report on soon he died. He was a drummer in the Mexican American War and died.

48:58
age 33, say reputedly sailed around the world. My only genealogy story is that about two or three years ago, I forget if it was like 23 and me or one of the ancestry.com or whatnot. had a wild hair on my ass to just try it. I was like, you know, let me just see like what's my background. And I managed to convince my dad who is one of the biggest I will never give the government any of my info or, know, like, you know, he's got everything in the house covered up in case they're listening.

49:28
I'll never forget just like randomly asking him, hey, they got a two for one special. Do you want to get in on For the DNA? Yeah. And my dad was like, yeah, yeah, sure. Why not?  know, to this day, I can't believe I got him to do it. But ah I think he was a little like, well, we'll see what this BS is like. You know, they're just going to get an easy check from my son. But whatever. I'm along for the ride. But he genuinely enjoyed the process. When he got the results and he got to see like, you know, where his genealogy like goes in the different countries, you know, and all that.

49:55
He was like blown away by it. So that's like a very fond memory I have of like getting my dad to try something that he absolutely would not do on his own. Yeah,  I'm a huge history buff. like how I really got into this is I was, I was  when I was working at Boom  and uh I came across a publisher, the last name of Moser  who, who uh would steal people's works and publish like really

50:25
like nice volumes, uh which something happened a lot in the late 19th century in the United States.  And he was in the arts and crafts movement. I was like, I got to figure out if I was related to him. I figured out very distantly related to him. But uh Robert Frost like begged this guy to publish his book,  his first book, because he was like, he loved how,  you know, the vellum and how he printed stuff. And so he's looking for more information about this person and his name's Thomas Byrd Mosier.

50:54
And  we have a couple of family names, Alfred and George. And so I was looking for Thomas Byrd and I came across George Alfred byrd. Now, like my dad was a lawyer, his dad was an accountant, like my mom's a nurse, her dad was a construction worker. You know, like there's just no one in publishing, no one,  not a lot of book people, not a lot of bibliophiles.  And so I'm looking at like all these documents and I find

51:24
find a reference to George Alfred Moser, a bookseller in Syracuse, New York. And so that was my second, my two ex-great grandfather. And he had a bookstore in Syracuse, New York from 1877 to 1899 and also published stuff. And so was like, oh, and so then I found a picture of the bookstore and I have a couple of the things that he published that I found on eBay. So yeah, I get a little, get a little.

51:52
That's awesome. I can't wait for this to be told in comic book form in 2030 looking forward to that ship. Yes Okay, I have I have two more questions one for each of you I won't lie I was a little hesitant if I was even going to ask this but both of you have been Fantastic sports very open book if you've answered this a hundred times you let me know if you don't want to answer you let me know but I am curious here Do you ever regret the sale of comic sology to Amazon like knowing what you know now knowing all the heartbreak in the heartache of that sale and

52:22
know, how Comixology unfortunately not around anymore. We've got like Kendall. But I guess I'm curious to hear like, what are your thoughts in retrospect? Like, do you feel like it was the right call? If I had, ah if it was fair to go back in time with all that I know, I don't think we would have had to be in a situation to sell to Amazon.  That's that's how I'm going to answer that. So do I wish Comixology  continued to be in great shape to do the features that we had laid out and all that stuff? Yeah, for sure.

52:51
And I feel badly for folks that kind of got stuck in with that, I guess. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing this. I wouldn't think there was an opportunity here. um But generally speaking, I don't kind of look back and judge myself that way. I knew what I knew and we did what we did. we really like, we sold a lot of comics and manga in print and in digital uh for  Amazon. We made a lot of new fans. We created a ton of new kind of fans. Yeah.

53:21
Yeah. And the idea that we had at Comic Solidity was, you know, there's a comic or manga for everybody and that everybody on the planet should be reading a comic or a manga or both. ah And Amazon really felt like the right place for that because they were reaching so many people. And for a long time, it was it was the perfect place. I'd love for this journey to end with  us being more like a webtoon, I guess, you know, go from, you know, a startup to a larger

53:50
company in the space to its own company in the public space so that it just continues to be like focused on comics and manga. ah That would be a great outcome.  Everybody wants me to promise I'll never do  anything and never sell anything and all that kind of stuff. And I just  in the spirit of that's one of the reasons we tell you upfront what you're buying, it's resellable, downloadable or remarkable, we tell you that stuff upfront because you should make those choices.

54:16
And if I have to choose between millions and millions of own comics not being readable because we go out of business or selling to somebody else to keep it going and to keep your comics available, I probably will choose the latter, just to be honest. I'd rather you continue to have access. Yeah, if I could chime in, I find it very interesting from a perception point of view that

54:43
when people talk about Comixology being bought by Amazon, they really are talking about the merge with Kindle in 2022.  And they don't, they're not really referring to when Comixology was actually bought by Amazon, which was 2014. And, you know, that was,  it  was really life-changing,  I know for David and myself, you know,  we had  a fantastic run uh working

55:14
doing Comixology at Amazon from 2014 to probably about 2020, you know, was when it was starting to get a little oh less awesome.  And  a little clearer that we did not own the company. We  did not own things. We had not actually owned  it. But things that we were able to accomplish in that time was, uh you know, we uh debuted Comixology and Limited.

55:43
We uh did comicsology originals. Dave and I talked about this all the time.  Really proud, you know, the deals that we did at comicsology originals, paying the creators right. You we really took that into distillery. I mean, there's still, you know, still comics coming out from that program that, you know, are contracts that Dave and I signed,  which is fun to watch. You know, Thought Bubble, which uh when we started participating was still run by Tool Lotte.

56:10
we were able to underwrite uh in a big way, uh which allowed them to do a lot of community outreach. We underwrote uh SPX for many years. During COVID, uh we sped up payments to publishers, uh which I don't think we've ever talked about publicly. We moved a lot of folks from quarterly to monthly payments.

56:34
uh And you know, I'm really proud  of the investments that we made in the comics community. Now lot of people thought it was like, oh, Jeff Bezos is trying to take over these, you know, it was just really like a couple of guys in the office, i.e. David and I going, okay, we have some extra budget this year, you know, let's do this, this and this, this will be good to do and good for comics, you know, good to get the brand out. You know, obviously it wasn't all  altruistic, but. uh

57:03
exceptionally proud of the run that we have there. was nice to be reminded of, Thanks. Yeah. And so, you know, it's sad how it ended. It was a bummer. It was a bummer to be there when all that was happening and it was out of our control. It was a bummer to not be there when they let go all those people, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, 2014 to 2020 was, you know, seriously great run. you know, I think

57:32
You saw a couple of retailers out there, like Digital Comics Destroyed Print Industry. it's just like, look at, like, ComiXology really hit in 2009, 2010. And sort of the apex was, for the business as its own entity, in the early 2020s. And you look at the line of the US industry, and it's just hockey pucky. And so you can't say that Digital Comics

58:02
didn't have a dramatic impact  on bringing new people into the hobby, into the industry,  making new lifelong readers,  lifelong fans. Buying print. We took our mission there seriously  and I believe we fulfilled it for the time that we had control of the business. Well said. You know what they say, the devil's in the details. Thank you guys for sharing that. Some of that stuff I did not know, so thank you. Most people don't know that stuff.

58:30
We're way past  our NDAs.  All right. Last question that will wrap up. I always save the last question ah in honor and with the thought of the aspiring creator that's listening.  Chip, you can answer this first, but David, I would love for you to chime in as well. Chip, you've held pivotal roles at Oni Press and Boom Studios. You know your way around the indie comic space.  I was curious if you could share any words of advice for aspiring creators that are hoping to...

58:58
know, elevate their, you know, reach a wider mainstream audience. Like what are some common mistakes or misinterpretations you see all the time from like the indie creator space? I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go with my portfolio review pet peeves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really bad lettering. just like, like I, all the portfolios that I've ever reviewed of new people, new creators.

59:28
new artists like wanting to break in, they will letter their own stuff and it'll be like a huge word balloon. It's like tying  letters in it. And it's just like so much negative space that draws your eye to that. You can't look at the sequential storytelling.  I just, open up fully, it's like stop lettering your work. I just want to see your art. to see your storytelling.  So don't letter your own work. It's an art form. Lettering is an art form. I'm a huge lettering snob.

59:57
literally stop reading a comic book that's horribly lettered. David, about you? Any advice for the aspiring comic creators as a publisher yourself? Yeah, like any creative endeavor, it's hard to break in and become a big star. One of the things I hear from so many creators, particularly the artists, but the writers too,  is the commitment to doing it over and over and over. And for me,  I was actually an art major as an undergrad.

01:00:26
I really wanted, I traced a lot of, or I did a lot of side-by-side drawing with Todd McFarlane stuff when he was transforming how Spider-Man looked. mean, that, you know, he set the stage for Spider-Man that still goes today in terms of the webbing and the  poses and all that stuff. He really transformed it entirely. And I just found that I didn't have the patience to get good at it. And what I hear from, you know, Matt Wagner's story is that he did a daily strip or something, weekly strip.

01:00:56
I think it was daily actually in college. And so every day he had to get  one thing done, you four panels done every single day. And it became so, he became so regular at it. He just became a proficient  creator. you know, now Matt would probably argue that a few of the issues relate for some of his stuff,  but, regardless, I think, you you think about Stephen King and writing, he's like, you have to write to be a writer. You got to do it. You got to just always do it.

01:01:25
And for me, like going back to the singing career that I didn't have, I had a teacher that once told me like, there are singers,  there are singers, and there are people who love to sing. You got to decide what you are. Like there are people that love to sing, there are people that need to sing. If you don't need to sing, you're not probably going to make it. There aren't enough jobs. You have to give up family. You got to run around the world and do and go to different places as a young person. I ended up

01:01:51
staying in New York City, wanted to keep my apartment that I didn't take so in the summer gigs that I got. Well, that's an indication that I love to sing, but I don't need to sing. And I think it's the very same thing for comics. If you're not willing to dedicate constant time and you don't have the need to make comics, it's really hard. It's really hard because if you want to go on webtoon and be successful,

01:02:15
You gotta have something out every Tuesday or Wednesday or whatever day of the week that you pick. You gotta do it every single time or you don't build that audience. But if you can do that, or if you need to do that and express yourself that way, then I think you just keep at it for as long as you humanly can and  hopefully you'll break through. Sound advice. Thank you, gentlemen. And with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast and we just finished talking to David Steinberger and Chip Mosher about...

01:02:41
Everything right we talked about distillery we talked about neon Ichiban which I advise if you're looking for a new Digital comic platform to check it out. We also talked about genealogy We talked  about we reminisced about  the golden years of comics ology. We covered a lot today I have links to their social media and a website in this episode show notes in description Check that out if you want to give them a follow and keep up to date with what's going on with distillery neon Ichiban uh Gents any parting words anything that we missed any shameless plug before we wrap up?

01:03:10
We will have officially launched when this lands. So I would say like, even if you're just a print  person, let's come out, come out, check out a free comic or two, maybe you'll find something you want to buy at a retailer, you know, discover something new or get into the marketplace and see the $1 $2 books, grab something that you wouldn't normally take a risk on something and find the new creator that you love. That's my that's my last pitch. What David said. No, no said I co-signed that.

01:03:38
Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. guys have been great.  And with that being said, we'll wrap up. Thank you so much.  There you have it, ShortBikes Nation. That's the end of the show.  Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here. And a special shout out if you made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortbikesjaxx.gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode,  help us spread the word.

01:04:06
Share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. Leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books, consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box.

01:04:34
It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box.  Speaking of our Patreon community, I want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chittani,  RC Gamet, BJ Kicks, Blake Simone,  Blythe Milligan,  Bo Evers, Brian Brumley, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker,  David Morales, Greg Lictide,  Hershel,  Mack Jacobson,  issue number three, Brad,  Jay Sinner,

01:05:03
Jeff Fremid, Jerome Cabanatan, Jose Sepulveda,  Justin McCoy, Corey Torgeson,  Matt Godwin, Amanda Maron, Melissa Byrne,  Nick Wagner,  Ryan Isaacson, Steven Ginn,  T-Mix,  The Wait For It Podcast, Tony Aupi, Trey Namo, Walter Gant,  and last but not least,  Warren Evans. Big shout outs to the patrons.  And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode.

01:05:32
And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.