Doug Wagner is locked and loaded: An interview about 12-Gauge Comics, Narco, and the Materials Universe - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 486

00:02
In this episode of The Short Box. The first thing I had was plastic. Daniel [Hillyard] and I wanted to work on something together and we couldn't figure out what, so I kind of pitched him three or four ideas and he picked plastic. And I was like, man, are you sure? Cause this one's like, you know, serial killers and kind of weird and it's got a blow up doll in it. You know, like, he's like, I love it. I love it. And so that kind of got us down that road and we found like, we just have this love for dark comedy horror.

00:26
I mean, I wouldn't say we wouldn't do anything else, but we just kind of got sucked into like, man, we really love this.  And since Plastic did so well,  I mean, if people keep letting us do this, we want to keep doing books like this for a while because we just love doing Give the people what they want.  Exactly. doll, blood.

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intro music plays

01:08
Yoo, Short Box Nation! Hello again, welcome back and thanks for pressing play today. If you're brand new, welcome to the show.  I'm your host, Badr Milligan, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the people that put their blood, sweat and tears in the making them.

01:28
This is episode 486 and today we have Doug Wagner on the podcast. He's a comic book writer and has been described as a storyteller of the delightfully deranged.  someone who has spent the last week diving into his bibliography and his past projects, I gotta say that is a very accurate description. Doug is best known for his dark comedy and horror comics following serial killers and cannibalistic furries. Like the Image Comics series, I was a fashion school serial killer,  plush  and vinyl.

01:56
Some of his other works include Batman Arkham Origins, World of Warcraft, and Marvel Zombies. He's got a brand new Image comic series along with Daniel Hilliard coming out in March 4th called Narco. And it takes the perspective of every man Marcus attempting to solve the grisly murder of his neighbor. Except Marcus is a narcoleptic who passes out at the slightest hint of alarm. Narco is also the next edition in the Materials universe, the same universe where plastic, plush, and vinyl take place.

02:22
Doug and his co-collaborator and artist of the series, Daniel Hilliard, have pitched Narcos as their version of an Alfred Hitchcock movie,  drawing inspiration from a classic cinema like Rear Window and Psycho. Issue 1 of Narcos comes out March 4th, so we'll talk to Doug about the new project, what it's like working with Image Comics, and what it takes to create a shared universe. But first, I want to thank our two amazing sponsors, starting with Gotham City Limit Comic Shop, it's my local comic shop,

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And it's also Jacksonville's premier shop for comics, toys, collectibles, and more. And last but not least, big shout out to Collective Con, Northeast Florida's premier anime, comic book, and pop culture event. It's taking place again, year 11, here in Jacksonville, Florida on March 27th through the 29th. You can get your tickets at collectivecon.com. Now, without further ado, Shorebox Nation, let's give it up for Doug Wagner. Hey, Doug. Welcome to Hey, how's it going today? Not too shabby, Doug.

03:16
We are kind of smack dab in the middle of an insane winter storm all over the US. Now granted, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida, so cold for us is when it dips below 40. This morning it was like 20 degrees and I was bundled up. You are from, I believe I've read that you are in Park City, Utah, is that correct? That is correct, yep. I looked up the temperature today. You guys had a high of 39 and a low of...

03:44
I was looking for the other digit. was like, where's the other digit? And it's like, no, that's it. Are you keeping warm? How are you doing today? Oh yeah. I it's been such crazy weather this year. moved to Park City because I love skiing and I live in the mountains. So 39 is actually pretty warm, kind of a regular sunny day for us. That's no big deal. But I mean, it's been so weird because we haven't gotten any snow this year. It's been going right over the top of us and then hitting the rest of the nation.

04:09
We're actually kind of envious that everybody else is getting all this snow. We've got none, you know, so it's like a weird like here for snow and I didn't know you were in Jacksonville. I'm actually was born in Fort Pierce, Florida. Oh no way another fellow Florida man. Yep. Yep. So until I was 15, I lived in Florida. Wow. Okay. Well, look, we got something else in common. We both love comic books and we're both Florida men. love that Doug, but before we hit record, I told you, um, I even mentioned the intro that I have been, you know, deep dive in your work. Big shout out to Sean Edgar, who connected us. He also gave me

04:39
a really awesome trot box full of, you know, awesome comics written by you, which gave me a good place to start. ended up reading  the first issue in Narcos. I got an advanced review. That was awesome.  I read, read the first issue of I was a fashion school,  uh, I was a fashion school serial killer. And then I started reading. went a little back. was like, all right, let me go like further back in your bibliography.  And I want to thank you for introducing me to maybe like one of my new favorite comics. I ended up reading the

05:09
Ride for the first time and was blown away by it. It's like just to take a step back for anyone that might be a little curious, The Ride is an anthology series centered around a 1968 Camaro and the many characters whose lives it alters. mean, you know, and with it being a crime focused comic book, we're talking about police, cops and robbers, know, gangsters, all of that stuff. I mean, it's kind of funny, you know, I mean, Kevin Gardner, who's the president of 12 Gauge.

05:37
Um, you know, and I've told the story a couple of times, but it's always fun to rehash it. It's like, we were the typical, like we, at one point we both ran a comic shop. Oh, wow. And friends. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. And we did what everybody does in comics. You know, we talk about like, well, if I ran Marvel, if I ran DC, this is what I do. And we did that for several years as friends. And I think I was sitting at his house one night and we were sitting on the couch, you know, doing the same thing. Well, if I was in charge of Marvel, this is what I'd do. And, uh, and I can't remember which one of us said it.

06:05
said it but one of us looked at each other and went, it's time for us to put up or shut up. And so that's where 12 Gauge Comics was created. We decided we were gonna do that and then it became like, well, what kind of comic we wanna do? We knew we didn't wanna try to compete with Marvel and DC doing superheroes. We went, what's missing? And Kevin was like, I really wanna do like Southern crime. And I was like, oh my God, that's a fantastic idea. And then we started pitching it to a couple of friends like Brian Stelfreeze and Cully Hammer and they were all in.

06:32
You know, and so like that's where it kind of got started. We just really wanted to try to do something that was different and, you know, easier to follow with, maybe more of an anthology and yeah, you could follow. yeah, dude, I mean, that's where it all began. I mean, that's that's that was my first comic that I'd written  probably in like a decade. Interesting. OK. And I guess one thing I should note is that the ride is a black and white anthology, which I think is a very interesting uh creative choice. But it brings.

06:59
the artwork to life in a way that reminds me of how much I love like Batman, black and white. I have a whole new appreciation for Collie Hamner. Collie Hamner and I actually went to high school together. Yeah, that's cool. And that's where we became friends. And then after we graduated high school, like he moved over to Atlanta and became part of Gajan Studios, know, which had like Adam Hughes and Dave Johnson and Tony Harris and Jason Pier, you know, like the list goes on and on. And so luckily I was friends with those guys. And so when Kevin and I started talking about, what do we want to do first? It's like, hey, let's talk to the gang.

07:27
And luckily I was friends with those guys and they were lucky. were again, I keep saying luckily, but it was all luck. know, it's like, all were in and wanted to do something different. And that's where the whole like, Hey, Ryan's like, I can't commit to four issues, but I could do 11 pages. And Kelly was like, I can do that too. And that's where it kind of started layer in like, Hey, wait a minute. We could have amazing artists every 11 pages. And that's, that was the whole goal. I loved your story with Colleen Hamner.

07:53
I think I'm currently on  like the one where you and Brian Stelfree's continue the story, but there is a remarkable Ron Mars and Chris Brumner story that at first  it it stands out so much because the first half I mean like you said it's like 11 12 pages So they're like really quick stories to read but the first  nine pages are in I'm assuming Chinese or something  and I'm like this is a radical difference and then by the end the way it wraps up and then he adds the script that's translated it's like

08:23
This is what I'm talking about, like thinking outside of the box, making a bold creative choice of black and white.  Yeah, man,  I love the ride. I gotta say, you got a new fan. I know it's like from 2004.  But I think that's the beauty of art is that to me, the time,  it doesn't have an expiration date.  Great stories, great art, last, they speak volumes even throughout time. Oh yeah.

08:48
So I mean, I was just talking to a friend and I recommended he'd never heard of Cosmic Odyssey before and it's still one of my favorite DC books. I just reread it the other day. Like it's sitting on my stand, you know, it like, man, I want to go back and reread that, know, Mike Minola and Jim Starlin. Yeah. Like it was just a great story from cover to cover. Doug, you mentioned you ran a comic shop and I did not have that in my, in my research. How long did you own a comic shop? I didn't own one. ran one. So I got, you know, I was the manager and then at one point we had four stores. So was kind of like, guess, technically a district manager. Where at?

09:18
Oh, that was in Birmingham, Alabama. Huh? Okay. Yep. What was the name of show? It oh was called The Comic Strip. Oh, cool. And yeah, I ran those for probably two, maybe three full years.  Okay. Yeah. And so yeah, I I look, you know, I originally started in Walden Books back when it was in the mall, and I was a manager at Walden Books, moved to Birmingham, and then I was like, I need a new job. So I got this comic strip job. Love that. And you know, it's just I loved being around books and comics. And so, you know, like for me, that's

09:45
there's like a no brainer as I'm trying to learn how to write comics. You know, I'm, I'm, I still wanted to be surrounded by them. At your peak working in the shop at the peak, like how many comics would you say were you, were you reading on a, on like a weekly basis? Oh God. Um, when I was working there, dude, I tried to read as many as I possibly could get my hands on. It was like one of those things like, if customers come in and want a recommendation, I have to be ready. So I would say on a regular week, I was probably reading 30, 40 comics a week.

10:13
I mean, it was free for me. I just came off the stand and wrote a book. So that made it lot easier. yeah, mean, dude, was at least when they came in, like half of my day, that first, and that's back when they all came out on Thursday, I spent the whole day just reading comics. Is there anything from your time running a comic shop that you still like that experience and that moment in time for you that you still tap into when like you're creating comics now or writing?

10:41
Oh yeah, I think one of the biggest one  is covers. I'm trying to figure out how to stand out in a crowd of 50 to 100 books. And  I think unfortunately we've kind of even in American comics, we've kind of gotten like,  we all our comic covers tend to look a lot,  you know, and so like they can blend in too much. So was trying to figure out how to like make it different. And even if you look at the ride with Adam Hughes, one of our big questions for him was like, Hey, how can we make this stand out? And he's like, we're not going to do a lot of backgrounds. We need to do like a solid color. It needs to be white.

11:12
And it worked, you know, just stood out.  so like that, was a big one. It like, how can you stand out amongst the 400 comics that come out that month? And not only, not only from the cover part, but like, you kind of have to have, a good log line to sell it to the retailer. again, they've, you know, I think it's like 500 to a thousand comics come out every week. I mean, every month. And they've got to pick and choose what they're going to spend their money on. And if you've got a really bad sounding, you know, like description of your book and it's kind of boring, they're going to like, well, I don't know how to sell that. Yeah.

11:42
you so you  have to like hit  those kind of notes  to work in a comic shop. And, know, I'm looking at  if you're watching the video version viewers, um you'll know that Doug has got his library behind him and he strategically has a copy of all of his books placed within eyesight. And I think it looks great. But, you know, thinking about, you know, a cover that garners attention.

12:06
I gotta say, you know, you've got Jay Lee who did the cover for I Was a Fashion School Killer. You got Andrew Robinson. I mean, the guy's great who did all the covers for Plastic.  And  I'll admit, I was unfamiliar. I feel like that shack me, but I apologize. I was unfamiliar with your game. But Daniel Hilliard is  remarkable.  And I think it's a damn shame.  You know, I'm just learning about him.  Maybe he's been taught, you know, he's getting the praise he deserves elsewhere. But um

12:33
I want to say if you're not familiar with Daniel Hilliard, has been your artist, your co-creator on several of the Materials Universe titles, that guy is great. didn't know he lives, but he's not here in the States, right? He's in Spain? Yep. He's an Englishman that lives in Spain.  That's great.  How did you two meet? Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. Like he sent in em a portfolio, like actual pages, right? So he sent a portfolio to the 12 gauge website. Oh, wow.

13:00
And at this point I'm working,  I'm living in Atlanta and I'm in the studio with the guys at Gaijin. And so he sends the  portfolio to Brian Stelfridge and goes, hey, is this guy any good? know, cause you know, sometimes, know, you have your favorites and you're like, oh, this isn't what I thought it was. And then Brian immediately brought it over. He printed it out and brought it over to me and he said, Hey, you need to work with this guy. You know, was like, Oh, okay. Guy looks pretty decent. You know, I'll get in contact with him. So we're emailing back and forth.

13:25
And we start working together and it was just one of those things to where like sometimes you meet people, you know, and you like, just work really well together. Yeah. And we've got the same kind of quirky sense of humor, you know, for, for horror books and that kind of thing. And we started just working together and dude, we've been working together ever since we like, we have a system, you know, we're yeah, I get along great. So it's just one of those things that like, I just got blind luck.

13:48
We know, I guess while we're on the topic of Daniel Hilliard, how about we talk about Narcos  and  on the topic of log lines. em I want to read you the solicitation for issue one. I think this issue one,  and  I want you to tell me what else would you add to it or what can people expect from the rest of the series? Cause it is supposed to be a five issue series. Issue one, like I said, comes out March  4th. So I'm going to read the solicitation. Tell me what else you would uh add to it. All right. The solicitation for issue one in Narcos reads Marcus Westfield.

14:17
has a rare form on narcolepsy. When he gets excited, he passes out. He's adapted though. Homebound life, a harmless infatuation of the girl next door. But when he witnesses her murder and collapses, he becomes suspect number one. Now he must leave his apartment to pursue a killer. Talk about an interesting and attention grabbing premise. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah. mean, I mean,  that's usually as far as I tend to go because I always hate being the guy, the person that spoils things.

14:47
I can tell you like it's exactly like that's how the whole series goes. Like you got Marcus who's dealing with this form of narcolepsy who in our timeline, you know, in our current time, like it's easy to adapt to, right? Like you can do door dash to get your food or your groceries. And so like he learns like I can be kind of insulated and I have to  interact with the real world. And so he learns how to deal with this. And then of course, you know, we're going to tear him out of that  very roughly. He's got like really good friends. he's got a good.

15:17
a good group of misfit friends that we don't really, you you can't throw in the log line kind of stuff, but he's got a good group of friends that like help him out and understand what he's going through and love him for exactly who he is. Yeah. When we throw them in the middle of this crazy murder mystery. And, know, we're like, you know, imagine a guy that's got this form of narcolepsy being interrogated. You know, it's like, you know, I got too excited and I passed out. So there's that kind of stuff. And then we lead into like, well, who's the murderer? And the murder was the person they murdered the target or Marcus the target.

15:47
You kind of things. just had a lot of fun with like diving into a, I mentioned it a little earlier, like I love Hitchcock and we want to kind of do our version of Hitchcock in a modern day setting. Yeah. When I, when I read the press release and they mentioned a rear window was in the press release, I got excited because that was a film I had to watch in like a intro to a film class and like a freshman year of college. And it was the one that like really stuck with me because of just how tense it was.

16:13
how helpless you felt for the main character as also yourself. You're like, what does a guy with a broken leg gonna do for something happening across the street? So I saw some of those parallels here and it was cool to see that you and Daniel both have that shared love of Alfred Hitchcock and that was a big inspiration for this series. I guess, what would you say, what kind of writer in today's day and age, specifically like a comic writer, what can they learn from a master like Alfred Hitchcock? What lessons or things have you learned from Hitchcock that you personally use in your scripts or plotting and such?

16:44
I think you nailed some of the things from where we're one of those one of my favorite films. And if you go and watch that it takes place in one environment, right? You're basically just in his apartment and how he uses small scenes to like lead you down a path that you assume is right. But then you find out later you were completely wrong and being able to like take that kind of stuff and mislead your reader. Not like

17:10
intentionally with dialogue or anything, but just like with small scenes or snippets of things and how you can make something  so intense in just one setting, just an apartment for an entire film to me was amazing. Like I just, don't, I'd never seen anything like that before until I bumped into that film. I'm not sure you see a lot of that even in  Hollywood now.  Like, know, there's these big bombastic sets and those kinds of things. I think we can learn is like, it's not necessarily about you have to do end game.

17:38
you can do something like rear window and people are still enthralled. It doesn't have to be like nothing but you know, blow blowing stuff up and in, you know, Fast and Furious style movie storytelling, you know, I mean, hey, there's always a place for that myself. But in comics, you can't necessarily pull off, you know, some of that stuff as well as they can in film. So you gotta learn like what how cinema works and how cinematic shots can determine how a book reads.  That said,

18:06
I can help but notice from Plastic and Plush and Vinyl, you and Daniel have put out so many comic books based on horror and serial killers and crime in action. I guess, is that a conscious thing? You tend to lean in on the genre comics, and I guess why so? I think for us, the first thing I had was Plastic. Daniel and I wanted to work on something together and we couldn't figure out what, so I pitched him three or four ideas.

18:35
And he picked plastic and I was like, man, are you sure? Cause this one's like, you know, serial killers and kind of weird and it's got a blow up doll in it. know, like, he's like, I love it. I love it. And so that kind of got us down that road and we found like, we just have this love for dark comedy horror. And we just got, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say we wouldn't do anything else, but we just kind of got sucked into like, man, we really love this. And since plastic did so well.

18:59
I mean, if people keep letting us do this, we want to keep doing books like this for a while because we just love doing it. Give the people what they want. Exactly. sex, dog, blood. And so we just kind of fell into that gap of like, hey, we love doing this. And if people are going to continue to support it, we'll keep doing it. Because like I said, it's just one of those things we love so much. I think we'll break out, you'll see us maybe do some supernatural stuff and that kind of stuff in the future because we just, we'll probably stay in the supernatural horror space. Now, I think what's interesting is that I,

19:25
I had no idea that all of this was connected. this is, know, plastic vinyl plush. Now Narcos is all part of this materials  universe. ah Damn, this is interesting because I don't know how many other horror, how many like horror specific comic universes there are. So I think what you're building is very interesting. All of the books feel different, but there seems to be like  this through line. I guess like what defines what gets included  in said materials universe.

19:54
And what is the connective tissue between the different titles? Like, are we going to see these characters overlap or interact with each other? Yeah, I mean, for us, it started out with, know, basically we did plastic and Eric Stephenson from Image came and said, hey, we think you should do a trilogy all based on materials. We're like, hey, yeah, we'll jump into that. And then the decision became, hey, do we want them to be connected in the same universe kind of thing? And we agreed we wanted that. And then it was just like, we want something that was very important for Daniel.

20:22
from the very beginning is we wanted all of our trades to be standalone. You don't have to read one to understand the other. But hopefully we'll put enough Easter eggs in each one of them to where like, wait a minute, these are all connected. And I think, you know, if you'll notice, like most of them are set in different cities. And I wanted, since I've been able to travel a lot in the United States, I wanted that like, hey, wait a minute, we can do a serial killer, cannibalistic furry thing going on throughout the United States, but each state has kind of its own vibe.

20:47
And so it was just one of those things of like, let's continue to like create stories in this universe. But like, they don't all have to feel exactly the same. Like we can do one in Louisiana. We can do one in Kansas city, you know, just kind of move things around so that they'll help. They all feel a little different, but again, they're all connected. And  what makes  one  fit in there? Honestly, we just kind of start and go, Hey, this is, you know, Narco is going to be in the, in the universe. And we just run with it. I don't have to tell you cause you're a fellow Florida man. I imagine the creative potential.

21:17
for a horror comic book base out of Florida is limitless and you're just waiting for the right time and the right opportunity. But I know you know, Florida is chock full of some weird shit. Oh yeah, mean, Florida, man, is a thing. yeah, it's like, there's, know, growing up there and seeing it all, yeah, it's pretty crazy. I mean, what's great about Florida is like, there's even different vibes in different parts of Florida. know, North Florida doesn't feel anything like the Everglades. No, not The G-West is a completely different.

21:45
world altogether. It's so much fun you can have with all that stuff. Yeah, always joke that Jacksonville is like southern Georgia that's like a little looser. So yeah, I totally agree, which is not the same as like the vibe in Orlando or Tampa. Or like you said, Key West is like a whole different country. It's like, what is going on here? Okay, what else I got for you on here? I want to go back to take a step back to some of your earlier career. You running a comic shop was news to me, but what I...

22:13
I I was able to find was maybe the first comic project that you were credited on. um The earliest entry in your bibliography that I could find was a writing credit in Ultra Force Number 4 from 1996. features the Black Knight on the cover  written by Doug Wagner, art by Pino Rinaldi and Tom  Wigerson.  And it's got a beautiful cover by John Statema and the late great George Pettis.  What do you remember from that?  And is that the first comic that you wrote?

22:43
Oh yeah, that was the first one that was, um, I mean, that was an interesting life. That was Malibu comics, um, just as they were being bought by Marvel. And so, Kali Hamner and I had actually created a series that Malibu was going to do, um, and said to keep me busy while Kali was finishing up, um, firearm at the time. Um, they were going to give me a couple of issues of UltraForce to do. And so we had all, everything planned out, all that kind of stuff and did the first issue of UltraForce and I was supposed to do three more before we jumped into our new series. And then  the next day Marvel called up and shut them down.

23:14
And so you can imagine like for me, because I finally felt like I'd broken in. Yeah. You know, it's like, oh man, I finally got it. You know, I got an editor that believes in me and, know, we're going to do some work together and I get one issue out and then it's over. You know, and then it's like, you know, for me at that age, you know, like I was devastated. Like it was like, wow, I've got to start from scratch. I got to see if I, know, because it's not easy to get into comics. It's really difficult. And so, you know, then I spent, you know, I was devastated for about a year, didn't do anything. They got back into writing.

23:40
And then it was just getting back into the  grind of being hard-headed and getting as  many rejection letters as you possibly could. Until finally uh Kevin and I started 12 Gauge and  that just kind of became its own beast.  How did you get your foot in the door with Malibu and Ultra Force? How did you break into comics? Well, luckily, mean, at that point, Kelly Hammer was doing Firearm. And he said, hey, Doug Wagner and I have this idea. We want to throw it at you. And we threw it at him they loved it. It was going to be like their new premiere title, that kind of stuff.

24:10
But I guess, what did you show them? mean,  like, it was just based off of Cully's, like, cosign was enough? No, no, no. We had to come up with a pitch and everything. So Cully did sample pages and we had a whole pitch. Back in those days, it wasn't quite as easy as putting it together on a computer. You know, you had to do a lot of that stuff,  you know, over at Kinko's with  different things. And so, yeah, I mean, we sent them a whole printed out  pitch.  And that back in the day, you know, that's what I did. Like, I mailed pitches.

24:37
You know, just like you hear Jim Lee and Todd McFarlane liking all the rejection letters they received. I mean, it was the same thing, dude. You like you type out a script and put a one page pitch on the front and send it to Marvel and DC and Malibu and Dark Horse and everybody else under the planet. you know, either a way to phone call that they wanted to do it or, you know, your form rejection letter in the mail. I learned an interesting trivia, at least to me that Malibu was the first company to use digital coloring for all of its titles.

25:07
And I think because they were like this computer coloring pioneer, it was a big reason why ah DC wanted to buy them. But then Marvel was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, if DC buys them, then we might be in trouble. Let me go ahead. We'll buy them. uh then, you know, unfortunately, they don't really do much with them. ah And then I also learned that Malibu, think because ah they were the publisher for the first handful of image comics, ah it helped them get enough market share.

25:35
that they were like bigger than DC Comics at a time.  Like, what do you remember from your time at Malibu? Everything at Malibu is great. The whole staff was great because, they flew me out there to talk about, know, getting the contracts and that kind of stuff signed. And it was a great little company. Like you said, they were the first ones doing digital coloring. And the worry when Malibu first sold to Marvel was that Marvel was going to do exactly what they ended up doing. Basically, we bought you for your coloring system. um

26:01
But Marvel promised them that wasn't the case and they were going to continue to do stuff like having Black Knight in the universe and that kind of stuff. But I just remember like, dude, they were an up and comer and they were really going to, I think at that point, like they were third or fourth, you know, as far as like comic book companies and sales. And they were making an impact. To this day, I think it's a shame that company didn't get a chance to see what kind of damage they could have done. I mean, they were doing superheroes, but they were doing them a little bit differently.

26:30
And I was looking at like just the  that run that, you wrote issue four, but that was among, you know, I think that's like right in between. Like  Warren Ellis was writing, you you George Patterson doing like, I mean, he did interiors for the first Ultra Force series.  mean, there was some heavy hitters at the company. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great books. I mean, they had great books. You know, Firearm with Kelly Hamner and James Robinson was a really good book. Basically like a  war detective stuck in a superhero world.

26:56
Yeah, yeah. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, that's a good point. Malibu is kind of a uh cool like what if, you know?  I wouldn't mind watching a document. I think they're like prime for a good documentary. It feels like a very Netflix documentary, especially like the Marvel buying them and promising one thing and the other. Yeah, that's great.  I guess going back a little further, I guess what made you want to write comics? And do you remember like  your first conscious exposure to comic books? Like, do you remember the one that made you like a fan? Oh, man. That's I mean, so it's

27:26
That's a little bit of a long, like I started out as a kid, like if it wouldn't have been for comics, I wouldn't have been able to read. So was one of those things back when they had Spinner Racks in 7-Eleven and my dad, you know, took me to 7-Eleven every Saturday. I started out with stuff like Casper and you know, Wendy the Witch and the Flintstones. And then kind of graduated to like, you know, I started reading Avengers and Fantastic Four and probably didn't bump into something that I was just like completely obsessed with until the Uncanny X-Men and it was the John Byrne, Chris Claremont run.

27:53
classic. you know, at that point, like then I just became obsessed with the uncanny X-Men. And then I met Cully Hamner in high school. And you know, I was a senior, he was a freshman at the time. And, and, know, he's over in the corner like doodling. And I realized he's doodling a superhero. I think it was Batman. I said, Oh my god, are you into comics? And he's like, Yeah, so we immediately became friends. And just for fun, we started like creating our own characters and writing our own stories. And we did that for about six months before it like dawned on me like

28:22
wait a minute, I think this is what I want to do. And so I remember the morning I woke up, I was 17, I woke up and I went into my mom's bedroom and I was like, hey, I think I figured out what I want to do. I want to write comic books when I grow up. You know, my mom wasn't too happy about it. She like, good luck with that. Better have a plan B. Yeah, that was the first like at 17. I was like, man, this is what I want to do with the rest of my life. Wow. It was very specific. Like I wanted to do comic books. It wasn't movies or TV or film or books. You know, I

28:51
can't recall who said this quote, that made me think of this quote I heard about how much of a blessing it is to figure out your calling early in life, because then you can dedicate all of your time and energy and youth to doing that thing. And I could not imagine, I mean, I know at 17, I had no idea, I couldn't even fathom. So for you to have this calling and pursue it so hard and run a comic shop, work in publishing,

29:20
And then, you know, in the co-creating your own comic line, I think that's awesome. And now here you are, you know, going forward almost five deep  of your own series of image comics.  do want to ask like, what is it like working with image comics throughout the years and, know, having them support your vision and work? Like what do they offer you as a writer and as a, know, uh someone that owns his own like comic publishing? Yeah. I mean, they're fantastic. Like, you know, especially production department, like I work with Erica Schnetz now, but everybody I worked ever worked in production, like being able to call them up.

29:50
and go, Hey, I don't know how to do this on a computer. Can you help me like figure out how to get this, these letters on a page or those kinds of things. They're fantastic. Um, I mean, image is still the number three company in America. And so having the image bullet on your comic gives it some sort of treat credit. Sure. That's like the huge benefit. Um, Eric Stevenson's always been super supportive. So he's great. You know, like, mean, I remember when we pitched plastic to him, it was actually in a, in a conference room at San Diego Comic-Con.

30:20
And, you know, we'd already,  Daniel had already drawn three issues. So we just took him on an iPad and he started thumbing through them. And we, couldn't tell by his expression whether he liked it or hated it. You know, then he looks up and he's like, Hey, it looks like you've got three issues done. When can we publish this? And we're like, Oh my God. So, you know,  they have always been super helpful and  super knowledgeable and telling you what you can and can't get away with. And, know, in comics, um, I can't recommend them enough. I mean, it's just, again,  as I'm sure you know,

30:48
They're the only company where you outright own your IP, 100%. So, you know, there's like all these great benefits from a creator standpoint that I've always enjoyed. And the fact that they get your books out, they get them out on time, they handle all that stuff for you. I don't have to worry about talking to the printer. I don't have to worry about talking to the shipper, you know, those kinds of things. And they have really good, you know, obviously relationship with the comic retailers too. So, you know, they help you on that side as well. Yeah. So it sounds like they handle enough of the things.

31:15
that allow you to focus just on being creative, know, just on the relationship with you, Daniel, your colors, your letters, et cetera. And they handle a big bulk of what comes after you hit, you know, publish or finish. Yeah. I mean, a lot of this way, I'm not spending my day talking to a printer, trying to figure things out. I spend my day talking to Eric or Daniel or Erica about, how, what's the coolest comic we can come up with? You know, so you're spending your energy on that versus trying to figure out, Oh my gosh, I can't figure out how to do this for the printer. Got it.

31:43
You know, we talked about Alfred Hitchcock being kind of like the North Star for, it sounds like a lot of your writing, but especially for Narco, what other writers  have also served as maybe like your North Star or like inspiration? I guess I'm asking like, who are some of your favorite writers that, you know, really influenced your work or give you inspiration to do better? It's been, you know, obviously it's grown over the years, but you know, I mean, it started with Chris Claremont.  know, Chris Claremont and ex, and Kanye X-Men run still.

32:09
to this day, think  is one of the greatest you have to say that's ever been done is over that period of time. Yeah. Denny O'Neill is another one that I absolutely love. His stuff on the question and some of the stuff. Yeah, he was just amazing. um Right now. mean, mean,  James Tiny and like, I don't know how  he just seems to do great book after book. Really good answer coming from you. like such a good answer.  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every time he comes up with a new book, I'm like,

32:37
man, I wish I had a couple of And he actually influenced me on like, uh calling I was a fashion school serial killer that long of a title because I realized, oh man, like he's coming up with titles for his books are almost like a mini log line. Yeah, nice house on the lake. Yeah, you don't have to question what it's about. You know what it's about just from the title. There's, know, and I'm obviously I'm gonna miss a ton of them. But you know, there's just so many book great books and something is killing the children. Yeah, you're Yeah, you're right. You're right. That's the pitch is in the title. Yeah, it's in the name.

33:07
I mean, I lie, like with the material stuff, like people walk up and they're like, what's plastic about? Because that doesn't tell you anything about what the book's about. you kind of have to do the log line. If I was a fashion school serial killer, when I had that at a show, I don't have to say anything. It sounds so. Yeah. All  right. So do you count if I was a fashion school serial killer uh within the materials universe? Oh, yeah, definitely. OK. So that one gets an exception in terms of the title. I do think, though, you know, even though plastic,

33:36
And even writing my notes, was like, well, how do I make this sound?  Plastic vinyl plush. If you say it, it's just like, why is he just naming these random things? It's like, I'm naming a comic series. But I do find if you dig even just a little deeper and you're like, oh, these are all part of a connected universe. And each one of these comics is centered around the thing in the title, plastic being the sex doll, literally being  the vinyl records that  set the main character off. Plush.

34:02
for those that don't know, is centered around cannibalistic furries.  I say all that to say I think you have very interesting concepts and hooks. I remember when Plastic came out, uh my local comic shop pushed it really hard. They spoke really highly about it. They  were just really uh into just how different it was. Have you ever been met with any, I think resistance is too strong a word, but maybe any hesitance, hesitance is better,  any hesitance with a publisher?

34:30
pitching a book or a story where they might be like, Whoa, that's, that's kind of out there. Oh, yeah, I run into that from time to time. And even with with plastic, when were when Daniel and I were doing plastic, some of our friends would ask us what we working on, we tell them, and I would say probably about 5050. Half  of them would say you're making a mistake like this is going to end your career. Like you'll never work in comics again.  So yeah, we were just like, we're doing it anyway, because we love it. You know, uh

34:55
And, we had support from Eric and Robert Kirkman, you know, and they're like, Hey, well, if we got their support, you know, like, yeah, we'll keep moving. But at cons, I run into like, I offend, you know, somebody will come up and just be offended by the concept. Whoa. Um, I actually, there was, there was one small show that the guy came up and I, at this point, I, now I use blow up doll. When I first was pitching it, I always use sex doll. And he got so offended that I said sex doll out loud that he tried to have me removed from the show. And so.

35:26
The great experience for me on this is it toughened up my skin. had to learn like, listen, some people aren't going to get this and they're going to be offended just by the concept without even reading it. That's okay. You got to let them go. You just got to accept it. And then sometimes we just kind of sit back and laugh at some of the reactions because they're so offended. You're like, it's just a blow up doll. It's not... It's just a funny book, brother. There's a sex doll in my funny book. I'm okay with that. And then so yeah, you do run into like, you got to kind of be...

35:55
I've learned you can kind of read them when they walk up. Sure. Like, like, I don't know if I want to give them the full picture because they might lose it on me or whatever. But yeah, you run into people that are like, hey, this isn't for me. And I totally understand that there's plenty of stuff that isn't for me. It sounds like you do a lot of traveling for conventions. You mentioned, you know, having an affinity for Chris for Chris Claremont. Have you had a chance to meet Chris Claremont? Have you been starstruck being a professional in the industry yourself?

36:23
Oh yeah. mean, I mean, when I met Chris Claremont the first time was at New York Comic-Con and it was at his table. And you know, I did the same thing. Everybody says, you know, I walked up and I said, Oh, Hey, Chris Claremont, you know, I love your writing. I'm a huge fan of your work. Like it was impactful to my youth. You know, you kind of tell, was like, yeah, I hear this all the time.  Super nice the whole time.  Um, yeah, I mean, there's been several times where I've been like at a table or whatever. think,  um, you know, I've always had anxiety issues, didn't realize how bad they were.

36:53
At one point I started having panic disorder  and that happened at a table. So Cully Hamner, I'm at a table with Cully Hamner, Jim Starlin, Walter and Louise Simonson. Nice.  Yeah. And like, I was so starstruck that like I started having panic attack for the first Oh, whoa. Yeah. You know, it's not like I'm sweating profusely, you know, like I can't come. I didn't hear a word anybody said.

37:17
Yeah. When you run into some of the super big stars, you're definitely like, I'm still starstruck by several of them. I just don't know what to say. What do you walk up to somebody like Walter Simon and say, what do I have to say that probably he hasn't heard a million times? That's when you tell them that I was a fool and thought myself too brave to ask the Tide restaurant to give me a 10 on the heat meter. All right. That's why I'm sweating.

37:42
And that's why I'm tongue tied and that's why I can't talk. That's what I would say. I'd lie.  Doug, I want to get into  the signature segment when it comes to these interview episodes. And that is the Short Box friends and family segment. It's where I shut up for a little bit and I let someone else ask the questions.  In today's case, I've got two voicemails from you. The first one is from the owner of my local comic shop, Gotham City Limit. It's Ben Kingsbury. He's got a question for you and I want to toss it to you.

38:12
Hey Doug, Ben K. from Gotham City Limit down here in sunny Jacksonville, Florida. Thanks so much for taking some time to answer a question.  I've got a two-parter for you.  So I've always wondered about the material naming scheme you've used, plastic for the doll, vinyl for the records, plush for the fursuits.  Is there a deeper  reason behind choosing those specific textures?

38:36
Or was it more about how punchy and memorable single word material names sound for these wild books?  Secondly,  could we get another material book down the line and what material would you choose next?  I'll leave you here to answer.  Thank you so much for everything you do for the comic community.  We literally couldn't do it without you.  And remember, short box nation, always take it to the limit. Peace.  Big shout out to Ben Kingsbury.

39:05
Thanks Ben and dude, I feel the same way about retailers. Like I couldn't do this without you guys. So like it's a symbiotic relationship, you know, and like it  support you 100 % on everything you do. So the two-parters, the first one was like, you know, was there deeper meaning behind them? I mean, obviously plastic was, it just started out, you know, I knew Edwin was obsessed with plastics. That's kind of like led me down that path, that title. The other two kind of came around because we wanted to make sure it wasn't what everybody was predicting would be the next one.

39:32
So you know, got a lot of people that were like, oh, you should do leather or pleather, you know, and it's like, you know, like, no, we don't want to do any of those. Like, so then we did vinyl and people were like, what's that? I wouldn't have never thought of that. I'm like, yeah, that's, why we came up with it. You know, then, then it was like, okay, now we need to make another hard turn. You know, we went, okay, well, nobody's going to guess we're doing something called plush, you know, so like, there was never like really deep meaning behind it. It was more like us just being assholes about like, didn't want people to be able to guess what we were doing next.

40:01
And, uh, and I mean, obviously, you know, we, Daniel are  sorry, Daniel and I are going to keep doing these type style of books as long as people let us. And, I don't know if we'll do like necessarily a straight up material one, just because of like what you and I talked earlier about, like it's just tougher to sell because people can't do it. Um, but I don't know if I had another one, like the other day I had, uh, we were talking about it and I don't know something called asphalt, just kind of like rang. was like, man, what does that mean? And what do you do with that?

40:31
You know, like, so, you know, the next one to be like that is like, what does that mean?  And what do do with it? Yeah. You're like slippers. Yeah.  Okay. And then  I think we might answer the second one considering that uh Narcos, like I said, is coming out in March and that'll be the continuation of the materials universe. uh Narco being short for narcolepsy.

40:55
So I guess what was the departure from, because mean, narco narcolepsy isn't a material per se. I guess why the departure from plastic vinyl plush, like that wording. Yeah, I mean, for this one, mean, honestly, Kevin came to Daniel and I with the idea. And he was like, hey, we got this guy with narco. He kind of had the title in his head already. He's like, I want to call it narco. I was like, that works with us. It's just another, we didn't want to get hung into every title we had. Had to have like a.

41:23
a material name in it.  mean, I know that it kind of makes it fun over time, but at the same time, becomes kind of, it doesn't feel fresh to me. Yeah, I like that. And you know, I was just about to say, I think that's a great word to describe the materials universe. And really, think, you your career in general is that  you really do keep us on our toes.  None of, even though like they're all part of the shared universe.

41:48
No, I feel like no, you know, plastic is not the same as, you know, plush. It doesn't have the same feel and, you know, whatnot. Even though that you guys do manage to, like I said, have that through line to justify them being in a shared universe, but I think they're all different in a great way. Oh, thanks. All right. And then I got one more voicemail for you. And I think you'll recognize the voice here, but let's play it and see if you catch it. Hey, Doug. It's Sean Edgar. I really want to know...

42:17
which serial killer you've written that you identify with  the most?  shout out to Sean. He is the senior marketing director of the new creator-owned comic publisher Distillery and responsible for hooking me and Doug up. So big shout out to Sean. Yep. Thanks Sean. Yeah, this is great to have a question from him.  That's a tough one because I won't lie, like all the characters in my books honestly have a piece of me in them. So, you know, like even, you know, when I started thinking about like the difference between Edwin and Walter and say Edie from

42:46
plush, like they all have kind of like parts of me in them. But I still think, you know, till this day, like Edwin will still be the one I relate to the most. He's that awkward, weird guy that like doesn't always necessarily know what the right thing to say is or says the wrong thing, you know, not thinking it through. and then, you know, I kind of based it on, I always feel like everybody has something in their life, that one thing that they love so much. Now for most regular people, it's their spouse or their kids.

43:16
stuff like that. like, you know, for me, it's my cat, you know, and if somebody threatened my cat or kicked my cat wrong, I might skin them alive. I'm being honest. So that's where I really  relate to Edwin to that fact, like he loves Virginia with all his heart. He's like, I'm going to protect her and take care of her no matter what.  That  no matter what path that leads me down. And so I kind of relate to that, like, man, you mess with something I love and like, this could go sideways.

43:45
people around the world are sharing you  on. say the same way. uh Okay, uh Doug, we've talked a little bit about  some of your collaborators. I normally play a name game where I  say a couple of names and I ask  what's story that comes to mind, an anecdote, thoughts, what it was like working with them. I have a couple of the names here. Let's start with Brian Stelfreeze. We've mentioned him a couple of times, but what comes to mind when you think of Brian Stelfreeze? Is there a story, a memory? I mean, there's so many with Brian. mean, he's just kind of like...

44:14
The first thing that comes to my mind when you, when you mentioned him is like, he's a storytelling genius. And so, you know, like you having a chance to talk, sit down and talk to them on a regular basis about story and what works and what doesn't has always been a huge benefit to me and shaped what I, how I write. With him, the story that always like the one that changed my life is he, I went into him one day and we were just having a talk in the office. I said, you know, I am kind of getting, you know, reviews on this story I'd written. And goes, oh, that's the worst. And go, that's the worst. He goes, yeah, I'd rather people love it or hate it.

44:42
He goes, anything in between is a failure to me. Interesting. And having somebody of Brian Stelfree's caliber saying he'd rather people hate it than not like it. You know, he's like, no, I want them to either love it or just hate it. And I'm like,  oh, that's what I need to start aiming for. Not trying to please the people in the middle, but finding the people to either love it or hate it. And so for me, that's, it's always been an inspirational story and changed the way I thought about writing. I guess coming off of that advice, which comic

45:11
or which series or project do you feel you accomplished that where you got, you know, met one of those extreme feelings? I think right out of the gate was plastic. Like, you know, obviously we've been able to continue that since then with Lionel and Plush and the rest of them. But when plastic came out, like there were people, you know, including my mom was like, you wrote about what? I need to ask, what does your parents or wife think of? Yeah, I think of your work. mean, because I'll be honest with you.

45:39
Your work, mean, yeah, Daniel has Daniel here has a way of drawing some very gory things. And I mean, he's working off a script you gave him. And I got to say, uh your personality is very warm is betraying everything that I thought going into this, you know, author research I was doing, I guess, what are some of the?  Yeah, like, what's your what are your family and friends think of your career? I mean, it's always interesting because, know, I got

46:04
friends in different, you know, as we all have, have different lives, right? So like I play softball, so I'm a softball friends and you know, like, yeah, then my mom kind of pretends like none of this happens. She's like, oh, that's kind of cool. That's kind of neat that you're a writer, but she doesn't want to read anything I do. Oh, wow. She just like, you know, I don't, I don't have anything to do with any of this. I'm surprising that my wife loves it. My wife, my wife is very overly honest and blunt about it.

46:34
And so like she'll read, she'll read one of the comics we do. She waits until it gets collected in a trade. And then she gives me a grade. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like, you got a B plus on this one. I'm like B plus, what did I do wrong? You know, so like,  you know, those kind of things. She actually loves a lot of the stuff we do.  She loves the quirky, you know, murder mystery kind of stuff anyway.  I love that because it's like,  look, comic nerds, I don't care what you say. Have you tried to impress my wife? Have you tried to get a C grade from my wife? Yeah.

47:03
I gotta ask what's been the highest grade that she's given you? you know, if you don't mind sharing, what's like the lowest grade? Um, both on plastic death and dolls, which, know, was a sequel, pretty cool kind of thing we did for, for plastic. She gave me an A plus as well as she gave us an A plus on. was a fashion school serial killer. Um, think the worst I got was on, Oh, let's see. I, it would probably be when we did the ride burning desire.

47:33
that just wasn't the book for her.  She's like, eh, it was kind of a little slow movie.  She's like, get to the killing, Doug. Get to the murder and the and the action. She loved the black stories in it, but she didn't like the main stories much. And I got a C plus on that one. I love the honesty. My wife is the same way. I value her input because she's also in podcasting. She comes from a journalistic background. She's a straight shooter. So when I know something sucks,  I'm going to hear it.

48:02
live for those like, you did really good on that. I'm like, yes. All right. So you gave me a story about Brian Stelfree. That was great. How about Andrew Robinson, who was the cover artist for for plastic? What comes to mind when you think Andrew? I Andrew's like, I love Andrew. And he's like, for me anyway, he's very guarded. So it's really tough to like, to know Andrew because he hides behind a pretty good shield. But once you get to know him, like, he's like this giant gorilla guy.

48:33
He's like massively strong. when you talk to him about what he does at the gym, and he's just like a block of a dude, but like he's like, it's the same time, like he's just like really sweet, emotional, sensitive guy. And so like when you're talking to him about covers and stuff and like he dives into like stuff that I never thought of, right? Like I'm like, Oh, well you're talking about philosophies. didn't even think about when I was writing the story, but he picks up on it and turns it into a cover. And so what I just love is like, got like, like I said, like this giant guy that you would not expect.

49:01
be like this really smart, really intuitive artist that can like really dive into something and go, Hey, I got you.  I think you described them perfectly. I've had the opportunity to,  uh, uh, and Robinson has been a guest at collective con for a couple of years now. And I've had, uh, two separate occasions, two different years and two different appearances to hang out with Andrew. I've interviewed them for the show. We've gone to dinner and yes, he is.

49:29
I think at face value, you're like, oh, this is kind of a physically intimidated guy. He keeps really quiet, but man, he is such a softy, man. He is a softy and extremely, and I think philosophical was a great word. He thinks, know, the way he thinks and, you know, his perspective on things is great. Big shout out to Andrew Robbs. And then  we've talked extensively about, about Daniel Hill, your, your, your co-creator, you know,  your friend, you know, uh, in all of this.  Um, so I will save that and ask for, uh, what comes to mind when I say Dave Stewart.

49:58
Which I think is such a big flex. One of the best colorists in the game has  graced  a couple of your series. comes to mind, think,  Dave Stewart? Yeah, I mean, this is just lucky that you get to meet people like Dave and Daniel and Brian.  Super sweet guys, super nice. Maybe the most mellow person I've ever met. I don't know if I've ever seen him excited.  When  you were Dave, you of like start getting relaxed yourself where you're like, no, I could take an ass.

50:29
But Dave, like working with Dave is always, mean, he's the consummate professional. Like he tells you exactly when the book, you know, when he's going to have time to do things and when it's going to be there and he never fails you. And when he, and he's still super humble. Like he just turned in some covers for Narco today that he colored. He's like, Oh, let me know if you like these or not. You know, I can always do it again. If you don't, if you want me to, and I'm like, you're Dave Stewart, whatever you color, I'm going to say yes. You know, so like he just an amazing like guy, but like super mellow.

50:56
Doesn't like, you know, you don't see him in a lot of cons. He's not very, you he doesn't like the social aspect of all that kind of stuff. He just kind of wants to color comics and enjoy them. And, and the fact that after all these years and all these Harvey's and Eisner's and everything else, he's one, he still sends me an email going, Hey, if you don't like it, I'll redo it. It's just, that is a professional. Yeah. That speaks to his character. Yeah. No, that's great. That's well said. Um, Doug, I think, man, we're getting close to it's wrapping this up, but but I want to ask you one last question. I feel like the theme.

51:26
for the past couple of interviews I've done so far this year has been about,  I've been trying to put a bigger emphasis on like the collaborative aspect of comics  and like mentors that, you know, that help each other out. So I want to know what's the best piece of advice that you ever got? Like who comes to mind when you think about like mentors, whether that'd be directly or indirectly, they're like really stand out when you think back on like your career and you know, moments of, you know, helping you reach that next level.

51:55
Yeah. mean,  I just gave him my best mentor thing with Brian. Yeah. That was probably the best piece of advice. Just flat out, at least it hit me hard.  Um, I was lucky enough to be like friends with Cully and Brian and Jason Pearson and Dave Johnson and Adam Hughes and Tony Harris and Joe Phillips and all the guys from guys in Laura Martin and in Carl's story and all those people over time. You know, I was, I would go and ask questions about like, what do you like? What do you not like those kinds of things?

52:21
And it's hard to put it into like one little story because it was all small nuggets,  you know, that kind of built up over time.  being  number one as a creator, you have kind of have to be that person that goes and asks those questions. But at the same time, all of those people taking time to answer them and they all took their time and were thoughtful and gave me their honest opinions about like, Hey, here's what I would do if I were you. Um, so all of those people over time, but you know, probably Brian, I talked to the most.

52:49
we were next door to offices each other and Cully Hamler too. And we would just talk about story. And it wasn't necessarily like me going in and going, Hey, I need advice on how to write a better story. We just sit down and talk about what makes a good story. And so those were the, those were the times that like over the years really had the  biggest impact.  Well, I guess maybe this is an opportunity to, to return to favor maybe to someone listening that's an aspiring writer. Do you have any advice  for the aspiring comic writers out there? Like maybe advice that

53:17
You wish you would have got a little earlier in your career. And I think somebody probably told me this a couple of times and I didn't listen. So if you're hard-headed like me, try to take this one in. Um, stop trying to write a story that you think an editor is going to like. Start trying to write a story that you would want to read, because if you don't want to read it, nobody else is going to want to read it. And that's how you find your voice. You know, a lot of times you get writers and creators going, Hey, how do find my voice? And I'm like, you got to start doing what you think you want to do.

53:47
not start writing a Batman script because you think the Batman editor will like it. If it's, you know, that's, that's a really tough pill to swallow. And I've been told that's from, some young creatives that that's being selfish. But I think if you find any other writer, like he, I've heard James Gunn say the same thing, you know, like write the story you would want to read period. Well said. And I think with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the short box podcast. And we just finished talking to Doug Wagner about his brand new horror comic. It's called Narco.

54:16
Issue one comes out March 4th. It's a five issue limited series.  FOC, final order cutoff for issue one is February 9th, which should be the following Monday after this episode drops. So look, you know how important it is  to uh final order cutoff. You know how important it is to get these titles on your pull list.  So  if you've become  a instant fan of Doug Magner, like I have, because he is so friendly, so awesome,  and he writes amazing comics, do yourselves a favor, do him a favor.

54:43
put Narco on your pull list. Once again, issue one comes out March 4th. I'll have links  to some previews can check out in these show notes. I'll also have links to Doug's website and social media in the show notes so you can give him a follow so you can stay up to date with everything that he's got going on.  Doug, this has literally been amazing. You've been fantastic. You've been super pleasant.  Any parting words or shameless plug before we wrap up?  No,  just thank you for having me on the show, dude. I really appreciate you taking the time to have me here. So  again, just like with Ben,

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in the comic shop, we are all in a symbiotic relationship.  None of us can do this without each other.  I really appreciate you taking the time to have me on. Hey, that means the world and the door is open for another interview if you ever want it.  Thank you.