A Frank Frazetta masterpiece is going to auction. An interview with Chuck Costas of Propstore about original comic art and preserving movie magic. The Short Box Podcast Ep. 492

00:03
In this episode of The Short Box. And part of the fun of doing this job is meeting other collectors, but also finding the things. I think what's a little different around collecting comics or comic art is behind movie props and costumes and all the rest of it, there are stories to also be unearthed. It's kind of a question as to like, you know, when we unearthed Darth Vader's lightsaber and sold that last year for $3.65 million,

00:30
It's like, where was it all these years? know, who has it?  And, you know, regularly we have people that sort of just walk in the door and  a lost piece of history  is in their hand.

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intro music plays

01:07
Yo, Short Box Nation. Hello again. Welcome back and thanks for press and play today. If you're brand new, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Badr Milligan,  and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations  about your favorite comics with the people who put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them.  Or in today's case,  get ready for a great conversation about comic art  and auctions.

01:34
This is episode 492 and today we're joined by Chuck Costas. He's the VP of business of Prop Store, one of the world's leading auction houses for entertainment memorabilia. uh Chuck has been collecting comic arts since the mid  1980s.  He's curated major exhibits  and hosted collector events nationwide.  He'll be joining us here in a few to talk about Prop Store's upcoming three day live auction taking place in Los Angeles,  both in person and online on March 25th through the 27th.  The live auction will feature over 13,

02:04
100 film and television lots,  as well as more than 200 lots of original animation artwork.  I'll have  a link to the digital catalog in the show notes if you wanna check it out.  And might I say, it's  worth combing.  It's worth just combing through it and seeing all the incredible  and interesting things going up for auction. There's actually a few comic uh movie props up for auction, like the cowl that Christian Bale wore in Batman Begins,  Wesley Snipes' sword in Scabbard.

02:33
from the Blade movie is also in there, like things I can only dream of owning. Speaking of dream items, one of the big draws and headliners hitting the auction block is the highly sought after Frank Frazetta painting titled Captive Princess, which was famously used as the cover for the 1973 paperback edition of The People That Time Forgot by Edgar Rice Burroughs. This particular piece by Frank Frazetta is estimated to sell somewhere between, I hope you're sitting down, is estimated to sell somewhere between 500,000

03:03
to a million dollars. That's just an estimate. Which leads me to a really important question listeners. Alright, I'd like to ask all one million of you listening right now. Can I borrow a dollar? think if I can get a dollar from everyone, I might have a chance here  on behalf of the Short Box Nation. How great would it be to have this Frank Frizzetta classic right behind me? Alright, do some thinking. I'll have a link to my Venmo and all of that in the show notes.  Look, I'm joking, but look.

03:28
The captive princess is a famous and gorgeous piece of fantasy art and Chuck will chat with us about what makes this painting  a quintessential  Frazetta work.  But first I want to thank our amazing sponsors who help us keep the lights on here at Short Box HQ,  including IDW Publishing. They're the award winning publisher of comics, graphic novels,  and books like TMNT, Star Trek, Sonic the Hedgehog, and giant lizards like Godzilla. IDW publishes Godzilla comics.  Go find and read some of these fine comics at your local comic shop.

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or check them out at idwpublishing.com.  And last but not least, a big shout out to Collective Con, Northeast Florida's premier anime, comic book, and pop culture event. It's taking place again here in Jacksonville, Florida on March 27th through the 29th. It's their 11th year show. It's gonna be a good time. These are all things you already know, and one other thing you know, I'll be there and you can get your tickets at collectivecon.com. Big shout outs to our sponsors.  Without further ado, Shorebox Nation, let's welcome our guest of honor today.

04:27
Let's give it up for Chuck Costa.  Hey Chuck, how you doing?  Doing great. It's wonderful to be here.  Always love to talk comics. Me too, Chuck. You also gave me a great reason to revisit some show notes that I wrote years ago when we did a Frank Vazetta artist spotlight episode. it was nice to get refreshed about Frank Vazetta, his career.

04:51
the rabbit holes I was going, like just the most amazing images I got to revisit and see once again. So I got to thank you for giving me excuse to just look at great art like on this random Thursday. You know, I had the same thing when we got this painting in for auction. You know, I got to go through back through what I loved about Frazetta, you know, back to the I guess the early days when he was drawing comics, the famous classic run of of Buck Rogers covers that he did for famous funnies. Those are probably some of my favorites, but.

05:19
You see him evolve as an artist from doing  things like Johnny Comet and Little Abner, some of the Western stuff that he did in  the  40s, and even some of the EC stuff, all beautiful pen and ink work.  But then he just bloomed into  being one of the  premier painters. It's amazing how an artist can be really good at one thing and then switch and do something else and be just as good at doing that, for as I was that guy. Yeah.

05:45
To your point, I even the stuff he did with like Playboy with little Annie Fanny, know, like  his his influence and mark on art permeates not just in comics, but it's crazy how his art touches almost every corner of pop culture. know,  that's not even thinking, you know, obviously books, comics, but music with the album covers that he's  done. mean, his fingerprint DNA is is  everywhere you look. Yeah, I mean, I kind of look at him as the the father of modern uh

06:15
fantasy artwork. Similar to how Norman Rockwell sort of set a tone,  a lot of other artists sort of copied his style. I grew up also with Boris Vallejo, um used to have some Boris Vallejo paintings. And you can directly see the DNA between  Frazetta and Boris and then others like Ken Kelly who would also do album covers as you sort of pointed out. Like  Frazetta's famous Death Dealer became the Molly Hatchet cover I think that everybody's very familiar with.

06:41
ah But then you look at things like Dungeons and Dragons and go, wait, I think a lot of those people were inspired when they were doing like the player's handbook and other cool things. They were sort of doing their own version of Frazetta. ah And then in today's Magic the Gathering, in some ways, I think a lot of those artists that draw or paint for Magic the Gathering, all those card paintings, in some ways also inspired by Frazetta. So yeah, you're right. think he's  somebody  that, as I call him, an artist artist, everybody looked up to him.

07:11
uh as sort of the ultimate. And I think that's why when you look at originals that go up for sale on the auction block,  they are  sort of truly  heads above what anybody else is selling their artwork for. Well said. And know, Chuck, this conversation comes at  a really good time. I just had the opportunity to go to OAX, Original Art Expo,  down here in Orlando for the first time.  So you've been yourself? Yeah, great show.

07:37
I did, I went to the first year. ah I was actually at there, there's an artist that folks know, Gerhard.  We were there together for the first year, unfortunately. uh My house burned down last Oh, shit. So  I was supposed to go to last year's show  and had tickets but didn't make it. And then this year I was gonna go with Gerhard but we had to cancel out. But it's a great show, I think it's for anybody that's a comic art enthusiast.  I used to do these little get togethers in Washington DC for the local collectors called the Cherry Blossom Spectaculars.

08:05
And this is really sort of the much bigger, broader version of that where you bring all these people together that just love comic art and buying and selling. I think they were targeting around 1,000 people. Since you were there, you might know. But just a great community. And then the artists are approachable. They have the sketches that you can get from different artists, even sometimes for free because they do it on Sundays, I believe. It's a great show. Yeah, to your point, it is maybe the most low-key

08:34
comic show I've been, and I mean that like with full respect, like it was like I could walk up to John Romita Jr. and have a convo with him and like the line is maybe five people deep,  not because there isn't a lot of people there, but it's just very, you know, low key and everyone seems to know each other. And  for me as a first timer, I think if anything, it only enhanced my appreciation for the craft and, you know, getting to see like original art and, you know, the things that

09:04
Didn't show up outside of the borders, the um pay stubs,  and a deeper appreciation for what goes into creating  comic art. I said in the intro that  you've been collecting comic art since the 1980s.  Do you recall what's the earliest comic art you remember buying? Was there a certain piece that maybe set you on this path to work in this industry? Yeah. I grew up in the Washington, DC area, and we used to have the benefit of uh

09:33
A couple cons we had the Jubilee conventions that were all up and down the east coast.  We had the creation conventions which a lot of people are familiar with. They've sort of evolved into the Star Trek conventions of today.  But they used to do a combination of comics  and they used to be huge  and they would go city to city, at least the major cities. Then we had serendipity convention.

09:52
The great thing about being in an environment like that is we would have artists like, as you say, John Romita Jr. I think I first met him in 1984. Wow. You think about that when he was on his X-Men run. And I think I remember talking to him about taking over the X-Men. And I think at that time he told me that he drew all the pages for X-Men 175, which he drew the last, I think, eight pages for that story after Paul Smith. He drew it in one night. He said he just like pulled an all-nighter for 24 hours and like had to draw those pages. Now, whether I remembered that correctly or not,

10:22
But what was great is that's where I got to love uh comic art. And so one of the first artists I met and bought an original art page from was Rich Rankin, who was doing, uh he was inking the elementals, which was  drawn by Bill Willingham, a lot of people may have known later on uh as a writer. He was doing fables.  But before that, he actually worked for Dungeons and Dragons. Kind of coming back to that,  he was one of the, what I would call one of the great Dungeons and Dragons artists. think he did...

10:48
Module s3 if I want to get very specific if you look back you'll see his artwork in there  It felt like a cut above and in some ways he may have been inspired by Frazetta if you know if I was to go back and ask him  Because he sort of set himself apart for the other Dungeons & Dragons and then he moved into comics  But my first page was they the page one from elementals number two It was just a  picture of the Seattle FBI  and rich charged me five dollars for that page

11:14
And then, know, comic got me on the original art kick, but back in the 80s, you could buy things relatively cheap. And then I met Mike Zak in 1986, right when the Punisher limited series came out. And I was, yeah, he was also doing GI Joe covers at the time. first thing I bought from him was the cover to GI Joe 47, because he had issues 45, 46 and 47. And he charged me, I think it was $40 at the out of here, Chuck, you're breaking my heart. Like I'm, I wish I had a time machine.

11:42
Well, and then he's like, hey, I just did this, you the Punisher limited series. it was, you know, I couldn't even get a copy because it had sold out on all the newsstands. But I was, I think I found issue two and I was blown away. And I was like, he's like, well, how would you like to buy a complete book? And I'm like, you know, and I think he charged me $400 for all of Punisher two. But, you know, as a kid, you know, I was mowing lawns as a kid, you know, $400 is nothing to sneeze at. So I spent the entire summer, you know,

12:09
mowing lawns to pay my parents back for the loan that they gave me so I could buy that original art. But that got me started on the original, you know, sort of collecting original artwork. I didn't know how much it was going to be worth, you know, and it's been a crazy ride since the 80s to today to see pieces like a Frazetta going for a million dollars. And  even in some cases, Mike Zek's,  one of the pages from uh Secret Wars 8 went for over $3 million.  It was not mine. I will go on record as saying I did not own that and I did not buy that.

12:39
I wish it. have that's a lot of lawns to cut. There's a lot of lawns. That would be even a lot more. That's a  mowing around the world, I think, for that many lawns.  But but no, it's been amazing. It's been an amazing ride for people that just appreciated comics and saw, though, the original art is a unique piece. And I think that's what sets it apart is it. It's the one of one. And you can't get any, know, if you collect comics and you're a great  fanatic.  Yes, you look for a nine point eight. But in this case, there's only a one of one. And when somebody gets it,

13:08
you're not gonna get it unless you can pry it out of them. Chuck, I'm so glad you said that. uh Speaking of really quick, one more thing about OAX, I ended up recording a  very short recap live from OAX with uh Dave from West Coast Dave Vendors. Big shout out to Dave. Attending that event showed me that, but that was something I forgot to mention is that  no two vendors were alike. They literally did not have these same things because  original Comic-Gar, it's in the name, it's original, it's one of one, and I think that is

13:37
a facet of a show like that and really just comic art in general that is  so unique and I think adds maybe the thrill of the hunt and shopping. did not leave. Unfortunately, I did not leave with a piece of original comic art, but I did learn a lot about, you know, what I'm looking for. And I think I said it on the show, but I'm gravitating more towards like uh intro splash page, you know, like the first uh splash page that's got like the indicia, the writer credits.

14:05
I think I'm waiting to look for the right piece for that. Yeah,  everybody's got what they like. Some people like end pages, some people like splashes, some people like just  a page has got great dialogue on it. In today's world, they don't necessarily always put the dialogue, but obviously back in the 80s,  90s, they did. And  people look for different things eh on that front. Chuck, that's someone calling to go out and buy the Frank Vizzetta.

14:28
Yeah, I'm sorry. It gets like that all the time. We're focused on you right now. You're fine. You're fine. Speaking of which, we're talking about uh shows. Prop Store is not necessarily throwing a comic show, but you guys are throwing one hell of an event. Like I said in the intro, March 27th, I'm sorry, 25th to 27th, you guys are throwing a three-day entertainment memorabilia live auction taking place live in Los Angeles, if you're in the area, or online. I do like the fact that you guys have it covered where you can bid in person or online or even via phone.

14:58
I want to talk about maybe some of these standout pieces and lots from this auction.  And I want to take a moment real quick to address the uh audio listeners.  I love you guys. We'll paint a picture with our words. my uh bread and butter is audio. But as you guys know, there is always a uncut video version of this podcast on YouTube. And this is one that I highly recommend you might want to at least peek over to the YouTube video. Because Chuck is behind him are some of these pieces.

15:26
and lots that are taking place in this auction.  I mentioned uh the Wesley Snipes blade uh outfit is behind them. got the Judge Dredd uh costume as well. Is that the Frank Fruzetta piece right behind you as well?  That is. We have the Frank Fruzetta right next to me there. Yeah, with the little book that goes with it. That was the original paperback cover that was published in 1973. Incredible. In your opinion, what are some of these standout pieces and lots from this upcoming auction?

15:53
Yeah, so the Frank Frazetta I think is the number one. to get into what is that, so that is the paperback cover for the 1973 edition of The People That Time Forgot. The People That Time Forgot was an Edgar Rice Burroughs novel. It was actually part two of a three-part series. The first one was The Land, excuse me, The Land That Time Forgot. People For The Time Forgot also was made into a movie in 1977. And I like to think, I wasn't there, but I like to think that the Frank Frazetta cover, he would...

16:21
you draw people and the reason they hired to paint covers is that he made these stories interesting and here in this painting he draws this picture of a woman getting dragged off by eight men in some type of prehistoric world which is you essentially sets the context for the movie it's a it's a it's it or the movie in the book in that it's a book that set in prehistoric times like a a land kinda like the savage land in x-men that sort of is stuck in time where they just go back and encounter pterodactyls and

16:51
uh... prehistoric creatures  and  uh... there's the the den of the dargas is is kind of the evil people that they have the encounter in there that the kidnapped folks  uh... but it's you know frank frizzetta was drawing in the late sixties he sort of moved from being a comic book artist as we talked about with doing the buck rogers and ec artwork  to  uh... painting and so i think some of the images of conan  he did for the back in the nineteen sixties for some of those book covers for robert howard

17:19
define the Conan character that we know today. think a lot of people would say the modern Conan and the Arnold Schwarzenegger version in the movies  was defined by Frazetta's vision of that. And I would say  even the Barry Smith and John Busema versions that we saw in the comic books  were based on that vision. uh But then for Edgar Rice Burroughs, he was doing Tarzan, he was doing John Carter, and then other books  that were the Burroughs series,  including the people that time forgot. And I think what was special about Frazetta is A, his ability to draw women,

17:49
was second to none and I think you saw that even in his pen and ink work that he was doing for  say Johnny Comet, you would see these beautiful women that were drawn in there  and when he painted it had a very, uh even the way that he drew the soft skin other things  was very Frazetta like  and I think you see that in this painting and I think when we talk about uh Frazetta paintings, the things that you're usually looking for are  babes,  you're looking for brutes, he always had some type of whether it was ape man or some other kind of

18:17
creature in there, you're looking for something that they're fighting against. And then  the Burroughs connection is also something that you're looking for. You want something from a publication that people remembered. And I think these book covers are now collected,  but they also brought this to a new generation. And I like to think that the book cover inspired people at the time to say, wow, we need to make this into a movie.  And then they made The Land That Time Forgotten, and they made The People That Time Forgot. The problem is that movie came out in the summer of 1977.

18:47
and there was another movie that came out in summer of 1977 that seems to dominate the box office called Star Wars.  Both starred  a gentleman named David Prowse.  David Prowse was Darth Vader in Star Wars. In the People of the Time Forgot movie, that was ah the executioner was the role that he played. In both, he didn't speak at all,  which is kind of funny,  but he played these large, uh foreboding characters in both movies.

19:12
But anyway, so this Frisetta sort of has a movie connection, which is why you're seeing it in our Entertainment Memorabilia Live auction,  but also stands on itself as its own piece of artwork as well. Chuck, I want to say  you might have inspired my new Frank Frisetta spin-off podcast called Babes, Brutes, and Burro.  That rolls off the tongue.  I think something else to think of as I was going through my old notes for that oh artist spotlight.

19:41
is, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but  like having Frank Rizzetta artwork on a cover of your book meant that, you know, your book was selling millions of copies, right? Like a lot of,  and if I'm not mistaken too, at some point it was also like, you know, case of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. I've read somewhere that uh he was oftentimes commissioned to do artwork and then a writer would kind of base a story around the artwork. I don't know how true that is.

20:08
Yeah, mean you can imagine he creates his own world. So I mean I think a lot of times he was commissioned by book publishers and I think Frank, if you read some of the books, you know, it's interesting especially on this painting because if you see how narrow the paperbacks are, they're very skinny and this painting is more, I would call it square. And so he knew that certain parts of the painting were going to get cut off in publication. So it's interesting, this particular painting, if you compare it to the published book cover, is slightly different.

20:36
And the reason for that is when he was drawing the painting there's really two reasons.  One, he would always draw based on what he was getting paid. And he always felt like, if they're paying me a large salary, I'll put a lot of detail into it. I'll go all out. If they're not paying me as much, then I'll do sort of what's needed. It'll still be a great painting, but I'm not going to go and draw some of the extras. And so think when he originally did this painting, like there was details off on the right side where you see her foot sort of hanging off.

21:03
there wasn't a lot of detail in the original painting because he knew that that wasn't going to actually be published. And when you look above sort of what's going on in the action, the trees and all that, the details in this piece weren't originally there. And he added them later when he went to go sell the painting, because he felt like, hey, if I'm going to sell this as a work of art, I want to have the final vision of this painting the way that I want it to be.

21:26
But when for publication if you add all that detail in the background it sort of obscures the logo because I know they're gonna put this Edgar Rice Burroughs logo over there so he didn't put all that detail into the painting originally and then later revisit it when he went to go sell this and this painting was originally sold in 1994 at Alexander Gallery they did a they did really the first retrospective on Frazetta and if you go back and find you can go on eBay and find that gallery book from that sale this painting as well as others that were sold there

21:56
They were really the first Frazetta books that were hitting the public. People hadn't done a retrospective on Frazetta at the time. And so that was really one of the first. And then there was the Frazetta books that came out series, I think it was one through four, that you find out there that go back. now there's been plenty of different books on Frazetta's career at this point in time.

22:13
I am just amazed at how knowledgeable you are about Frank Frazetta.  I should not be surprised, but I would love to ask if you've ever been to the  Frank Frazetta Museum. Have I met Frank Frazetta? No, no, not met. Have you ever been to the Frank Frazetta Museum in Pennsylvania? I have not. have not. I've seen pictures of the Frank Frazetta Museum. I have not actually visited it. But I did get a chance  to meet Frank Frazetta. Oh, wow. uh Yeah. That was, guess, I do have a story to tell there.

22:39
uh Steve Jeppie,  who  there was a comic museum that had opened in Baltimore in the Inner Harbor. And so Steve had invited me to the opening of that museum.  And for that opening, Frank Frazetta showed up and he actually had the cover with him to Weird Science Fantasy Number 29, which is one of his all-time classic EC covers that he had done.  He wanted to display it there and sort of was standing by it. so  it was great to see. was later in his life in some ways, but great to have met.

23:07
the great artist, Frank Frazetta, he still, Frank still had many of these pieces. And I think that's one thing that you realize and why they are rare and scarce is that the Frazetta family, especially Ellie, his wife, wouldn't let go of a lot of these pieces unless they got the price that they felt like, you know, Frank deserved. And so many of the pieces stayed in the Frank Frazetta family. And a lot of those are still on display at the museum that you just referred to, which I think is great. So not necessarily a lot of his great paintings ended up.

23:36
in the public hands.  are some out there and I think in recent years, especially in this last year, we've seen the prices, we've seen some pop out and when they now appear, they've been selling usually north of a million. I think the Vampirella cover  for issue one that just sold a couple weeks ago for a little over $3 million and of course there was the uh Conan cover that sold for $13.5 million  last year as well. So mean there's been some crazy record prices on Frazettas.

24:06
I'm lucky we were able to get i was able to sort of secure this consignment about a year ago so before the prices started going crazy i talk to the consignor and said hey i'd like to offer this auction and the five hundred thousand two million it's not not anything small that you see that but i actually think it's a bargain at this at today's prices because i think paintings like this are selling for over a million pretty consistently out there so somebody's you can get it for something close to the low estimate here. ah

24:33
I think it's a great deal.  we're also offering, we also realize it is a lot of money, so we are offering uh a payment plan if people are interested. They're always welcome to reach out to me  or somebody here at PropStor and we can discuss that with you. Short Box Nation, mean, look,  even more reason to help me achieve my goal of having this amazing masterpiece hanging in the studio.  Now,  I will have a link to  this piece in the show notes, but it's lot number 130 for anyone curious. Like I said, it's worth just...

25:01
combing and window shopping the catalog. It's put together very well, by the way, Chuck. Big shout out to whoever put together the catalog. had so much fun just going through it. I guess what's really cool about Frank Vazetta, just the name of his  pieces, right? We're talking like one singular piece, but there is so much composition. There is a story being told in every single one of these.  I feel like all of his  pieces capture the pinnacle of that moment. Look at the captive princess. It feels like,

25:30
That is the pinnacle of that moment and how just the names of his pieces, you know, like I have weight to them. You know, we're not talking about,  know, Secret Wars Eight or something like that. It's like Frank Verzitta, Egyptian queen. Everyone in the know knows what that means. know, woman with a scythe, Conan the Conqueror,  the Mothman, you know, like all of these famous pieces of his and it's like one single, I don't know, just something about the weight that comes with uh certain and just the names too are always like so bad.

26:00
ah I would agree with you. I mean, think all those are classic paintings, uh but I would also say if they sold in today's world, think Man-Ape was the Conan  cover that sold for $13.5 million.  I think Egyptian, you know, 2019, as we also know from the comics industry, was a very different time sort of pre-COVID. And what I've seen continuously over the years, I remember when I was,  don't remember what it was, it must have been  90s or early 2000s.

26:27
The Vampirella one cover sold for the first time and I think it's all for over a hundred thousand dollars and that made a real big impression on me that a comic book related piece could sell for a six figure some  well again fast forward you know to two weeks ago uh where the Vampirella one cover sold for over three million dollars Frank's stuff continues to set new market barrier you know break market barriers and so I do think what you just talked about and what happened in twenty nineteen and some of those record sales that happened in.

26:56
the six million dollar sales that happened at those times now have made way for  sales over ten million dollars. ah Frank continues to be sort of setting the pace  as comic art as you were just talking about  has increased in price. are now comic art pieces. I the Spider-Woman one cover sold for, I  guess the Black Cat, the Spidey 194 cover sold for a million dollars.  So there are comic book examples that have uh

27:23
you know, have started to also start breaking records. But as comic book examples break records, Frank's sort of pulled away from that. You know, he's kind of at the upper echelon of both comic artists,  as well as fantasy painters, he sort of sits in this very specific realm of like the best of the best. And I agree with you on those, you know, captives. So this one's called captive princess, which is  a great way of doing it. And obviously it has a secondary title for the book that it that appeared with.  But  but I do think yeah, and it's also for you know,

27:52
The Frazetta, he goes by his last name, right? It speaks for itself as well. know, Frazetta said that even his signature is a work of art. You know, like you see like his signature is like, man, this guy is the best of the best recipes to a true master. uh I am curious to hear  about what's your favorite part of the job, because I mentioned in the intro, your title is VP of Business at Prop Store. But I'm hearing you talk about, you know, meeting with private collectors. And I just want to kind of get an idea of

28:21
What's your favorite part of the job and what you do at Prop Store? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I look back on my career. I started as a guy who basically would buy comic book collections in the  1980s at local and in Selma at local conventions. And I got to know the collecting, you know, my collecting  friends, you know, back then. And it's funny, however many years later, we still see each other at like things like Baltimore Comic Con. And we still, you know, still are buddies, uh however many years ago. And remember those times. But, you know,

28:49
I  for twenty something years I worked at a large management consulting firm which wasn't quite as exciting as getting back into collecting and so I joined prop store maybe seven years ago. uh I'm in part of the the the fun of doing this job is meeting other collectors but also finding the things I think what's a little different around collecting comics or comic art is behind movie props  and costumes and all the rest of their stories to also be on earth.

29:16
It's kind of a question as to like you know when we are on earth Darth Vader's lightsaber and sold out last year for three point six five million dollars  where was it all these years you know who has it.  And you know regularly we have people that sort of just walk in the door and a lost piece of history is in their hands  and to be the person the first person to essentially see these things after all these years  is amazing but then we also have the onus as an auction company.

29:44
to authenticate these things because there are, sometimes, think about like a Star Trek phaser, you may have bought that at creation comic convention back in the 80s. Was it real, was it not real? And part of what we get to do is we get to do the Indiana Jones type thing and we get to investigate and try to prove which is the real grail piece. We have to decipher that for fellow collectors and I think being able to tell those stories to other collectors and also just sort of help them.

30:10
to understand the journey of how we authenticated things as well.  It's pleasure to do that kind of thing. Does Prop Store have existing relationships with Hollywood and studios and guess like uh artisans that work behind films now? Yeah, yeah, that's actually my day-to-day job is uh I work with the film studios, I guess film and television studios.  And in today's world when  like a television show wraps,

30:36
they don't have room to store all this stuff.  each of the major studios has an archive  and they need to keep the archive just in case they revisit things and or if they want to do their own sort of museum exhibits,  they always keep it. But I think what's a little different, again, based on if you collect comic art, there is one and only one of those pieces  in the world of film and television.  They always have to make multiples. So if you see Arnold  Schwarzenegger's leather jacket from Terminator 2, well,

31:05
you they may have made fifty of those because they shot it up and so every time they shoot it up it's a different level of what they call distress to it uh which is the know the beat up damage to it they have to add a bullet hole and so they have you know different iterations of the same what can you on to you seems like one jacket uh they may have fifty of those things on a on on that so there actually are fifty originals that are there some that are actually seen on screen uh but some of them they do multiple takes oh of things and so they might

31:35
you shoot off the squibs that that caused the battle damage on the jacket but then they may not use that cut and so it's technically used in the making of the film but it's not on screen  so there's a lot of little subtleties  to what we do  some stuff we get from the studios directly nowadays so if it's a modern production  a lot of times we will work with them and then we'll actually promote it together so for instance Star Trek  we've been working with them on the Star Trek television series and

32:01
We've been lucky enough to be able to offer those straight to Star Trek fans out there that can now wear or display their own authentic Star Wars or Star Trek uniform.  But other things like,  you know, Star Wars, a lot of that stuff ended up in the hands of crew members that may have worked on the set. uh A long time ago, they may have disposed of it and then ended up in a dumpster and then people ended up salvaging it out of the dumpster. So, you know, finding this stuff  comes from many different sources.

32:28
And sometimes it's just been, like I said, in  somebody's garage for the last 40 years.  And it could have, you for, you you think about your day job, some people, you know, they work and they type up pieces of paper. Well, for a lot of these movie professionals, this is what they did. They made movie props and they took some of them home. But to them, it feels more like they kept a piece of their work as opposed to art. And I think when we see it, as you said, we look at it as artwork, you know, in some ways it's almost like a piece of original artwork,  but it's 3D.

32:55
em and we always appreciate the costumers and the prop makers and  the set decorators that that you know made these things and sometimes  Really fast, you know, they had to make you know when you're on a movie production They have to crank this stuff out and make sure that they're always prepared for the next shoot So it's an amazing industry to sort of get to know and so yes We do know a lot of the professionals that worked on these films as well and sometimes they'll come forward with their own personal collections of things  that they've accumulated over time and it's always great to be able to present those to the world sometimes the actors do have it although

33:25
you maybe not so much as is some of other people like producers or others that that took on some of these pieces but  in the eighties especially or even before these things weren't valuable kind of like original comic card you you you were cringing when i told you what the prices i paid for that first year joke over if you go sort of rewind the clock  a lot of these things didn't have a lot of value because  they were just thrown out at the end of production and so the people that kept it with i want to the smart ones

33:51
but because a lot of the stuff was destroyed you don't exactly know what survived and what didn't when something truly important shows up that that's that's where it is almost treated like a unique piece  because we just don't know how many are out there is no census like there is in comics to tell us all you know how many of these things are ours but prop store you because we sold so many of we've handled this we have sort of a different perspective as to we know if we've seen another example it helps us to establish whether or not the one that's currently in front of us is authentic or not.

34:22
Chuck, I want to know what's the most  random or interesting prop or memorabilia that has come your way? Has anything truly left you in shock and awe? ah Right now we have a piece or we have a couple of pieces in our current auction that I think a lot of people have been shocked and awed by.  So one is the Rhino from Ace Ventura, When Nature Calls.  Yes.

34:45
I saw that. I've actually been surprised because I got to do a video with Adam Savage about it and I guess I was relating my own personal experiences with that movie.  But um the impact that that had, the amount of people that saw that scene and just love it. And the fact that we're selling something where something's coming out the rear end of a rhino. uh I mean, you think about it,  it's funny that so many people are drawn to that, but  you never know what we're going to have. And  I think about it, who's going to have room for this?

35:15
you know, somebody that loved that movie or loves Jim Carrey or they're gonna make room for it and they're gonna be proud of it every day and they're gonna get a kick out of it and they're gonna laugh at it and you know, God bless them, you know. So it's, I hope that person  gets joy out of that piece every day. But yeah, how did we get this piece? You know, it's like I never would have thought that  that was something that was gonna come our way. Man, yeah, I,  listeners, I'm telling you, it is worthwhile just combing through the catalog, all right?

35:43
I mean, you know what? If you don't mind, Chuck, I'm going to share some of the things that I screen-shotted and quote unquote favorited. You tell me what comes to mind, if there's anything, we'll just keep it moving. But the fact that you guys have, I think this is lot number 17, or it's on page 17 of the catalog.  You guys have Oliver Queen's,  Stephen Amell's, season eight arrow quivers with the production made ensemble. And when I say ensemble, I'm assuming that means the whole costume, right? That's a whole costume, yes. Wow.

36:12
Fancy word for full costume. When I tell you  I  loved that series, and I guess there's something about seeing  these items  just kind of like as is.  I don't know, there's a word for it that I can't quite grasp, it's bringing, it's gotta be something for you to,  and I guess if you don't mind describing, seeing these things in physical form, being able to touch them out of the context of the show, but knowing that there is.

36:39
this context, this history to it, there's a fandom behind it. What is that feeling like, being able to be among some of these props and things? Yeah, it's funny.  I've had the pleasure over my career. We did a lot of auctions directly with Marvel for the Marvel television show. So I got to handle all the Daredevil costumes, the Punisher costumes,  Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, you name it.  And I'm working on another superhero-related project right now that's a lot of fun. uh

37:06
You get to study it.  It's interesting to see the materials that they used uh in making these superhero costumes. There's been an evolution.  really, the first Superman costume is probably the one that everybody thinks of. And even that has this, the Christopher Reeve Superman costumes from late 70s. Those have a special fabric to them. But to see the evolution of Superman costume to Batman costume, and that was really a game changer with using foam latex  on that, and to today's where you've got a rubberized print for the most part.

37:34
on  a flexible type of material that they're using for a lot of these costumes.  The workmanship that goes into a superhero costume these days, and I've talked to people in the industry, the most expensive superhero, mean, the Iron Man  suits are probably the most expensive to make a complete Iron Man suit. You're probably  talking a half million dollars. But some of these superhero suits,  just to make them for what's gonna be on screen,  can cost upwards of $100,000 a piece.

38:03
which a lot of people may not realize. And so when we sell them at auction, people are like, wow, I can't believe it went for 20, 30,000. I'm like, well, that's a fraction of what it actually costs to actually make some of these suits because of the amount of detail that they put into these costumes is just so fantastic. So when you get something like the Arrow costume, everybody kind of, you think about putting it on, but you're not gonna do that. But there's always that strong desire of like, wow.

38:32
And it becomes real.  that's the thing with when comics sort of evolved into, especially the Marvel movies,  the first ones when we hit Iron Man,  they really took a life of coming out of the pages of the comic book. And I thought the Arrow costume is a good example of it really brought Arrow to life and made it more like, wow, this person could live in the real world. And I can see what it was. And there's obviously different versions of the Arrow costume out there too. So sometimes you get the pleasure of seeing all the different evolutions of it.

38:59
Like Daredevil for now, there's a different version in every series that they've sort put out recently, but subtle differences. Chuck, you're a better man than me because the fact that you have the Judge Dredd ensemble and costume behind you and you're not doing this interview with at least the helmet on, I think, speaks to your professionalism. And that is why you are a VP of business and I am interviewing you. Well, I am the law as well. So there you go. All right. What else have I got, Screenshot? I had the Rhino from Ace Ventura.

39:29
uh screenshot and saved as well just because it just brought me back to that incredible scene  and how much trouble I got in elementary school trying to quote this movie  in front of all my classmates. That is so awesome. Yeah, for me,  we also have the Happy Gilmore, I guess the alligator that ate Chubb's hand. Which was a thrill to find because there's just not much from Happy Gilmore and I love that movie.

39:56
And you guys have a  lot of the other stuff I saved. Those from the uh Batman 1989 movie. You guys have so many props and things from it. You guys have the cathedral belt, the Gotham Cathedral Bell. Yes. Wake you up in the morning.  I can imagine that. m It would wake me up, my wife up, and the entire neighbors on every single. But you guys have a ton of the  rubber chest  emblems.  You guys have, uh oh my god, when I say I want one of these grapple guns,  so bad.

40:25
Yeah, and a lot of those grapple guns, as far as we can tell, there's only been two that have sort of surfaced. This is one of the two. So they can be very rare.  I think we actually have two different style of grapple gun in this one as well. But uh not very common. yeah, we do. And it's interesting. The Batman movies have always been collectible. And for whatever reason, a lot of it ended up in the hands of collectors. And so we do get it, whether it's Batman 1 or  we've got Mr. Freeze's gun. I'm looking at that right now. uh

40:53
from the fourth movie from Batman and Robin, a true work of art that's very cool that lights up and all that stuff. bat gadgets are very key.  And you know, may be going there too to talk about animation, but we've also got in this auction some Batman animated stuff. And I know the nineties, as we talked about with Ace Ventura, nineties is really, you  for our collecting public, it's getting very hot because people in their forties that are sort of coming into their own  are starting to find our hobby more and more.  And we want to have some something different.

41:21
Whether it be a prop or an animated piece that they can add to their collection because everybody some people are visuals Some people are tactile and you know, they want something to put on their desk or they want something to put on their wall You know, it's our job to help find something, you know, that's just for them.  I'm curious about how you guys go about  judging  Something's value or worth is it is it a combination of things like, you uh time period

41:47
IP or what you don't like Batman for example would obviously sell there's a huge fandom there I guess I'm just curious like how what goes into valuing something like an extra Jack you know like you mentioned the Arnold Schwarzenegger's like you know spare jacket what goes into valuing some of these things yeah a lot of it is is comparable so as I say there's multiples of a lot of these things so bat chest emblems you they had they would would have made

42:13
i don't know how many like you know across all the different movies hundreds  because they would have to swap them in and out for the actors in the sun actors and you know that they would use them all the time and then cows as well they had to swap those and because they get one little thing on them that are no longer camera ready and have to swap it out so um so there are cops for a lot of these things but something like the ace venture rhino you know i think we are frankly we  have already found out that we miss. uh

42:40
we underestimated the value that that piece is. I think we estimated originally at 4,000 to 8,000 and last I checked the bidding was already up to 18,000. It's a unique piece.  But  part of the reason we estimated it so low is what we find in this hobby is  the bigger a piece is, actually the less value is because you have to think about how much  it costs to ship this thing  and sometimes it can be very particular for somebody to have space in their house. You limit the number of potential buyers when something is bigger.

43:08
So something like a bad emblem, everybody can put that on their desk or anywhere. ah And those smaller items, we also have like a Willy Wonka golden ticket, which is not very large,  but everybody,  it's also instantly recognizable. So first thing we do is look at comps.  And if we can't find a direct comp, we look at  similar type of items that we think sort of have the same pop culture appeal, so to speak, that would be similar that we would sort of use to help price it.  But we do sometimes find we're completely off because

43:37
Sometimes with these unique type items,  there's just no telling uh what somebody's upper limit might be. What's the most  awkward  or largest thing that you guys have had to ship? When you think about, when you mentioned like, you know, sometimes the size of the thing complicates shipping and where it goes. I guess what's like, what's a case that comes to mind? Well, I guess one thing that comes to mind is we had somebody buy, we had a replica of the Pirates of the Caribbean ship.

44:02
Get out of here. I think it was a half size, technically, and it was used for Disney promotional events. And the buyer bought it. unfortunately, they found out I think it was going to cost them like $20,000 to ship this. They hadn't thought about this. so when you think about that, something like that is like, a lot of people don't think about that. Vehicles are also very, you have to deal with those, although there can be car carriers and other things.

44:32
But you do have to think about, again, the size of these things. We  have great services that will create boxes for things. ah But  if you're going to bid on a large item, like the Rhino, I would suggest contacting our shipping department in advance, because we do give out quotes or we'll work with a shipping company to get you a quote. Because I do think that's a big thing that you have to take into account when you're thinking about these large items. Chuck, I won't be able to watch any movie going forward without thinking about how much that would cost to ship.

45:01
It's always good to think about that. I gotta ask though, when you're watching, guess how has this, you know, when they say like sometimes work bleeds into your personal life and stuff like that. Yes. How is it for you in terms of like your relationship with movies and just like, you know, just enjoying TV? Like is your memorabilia brain always on? You know, it's funny. Sometimes I have to turn it off. Like what will happen when there's a series on that I'm really excited about? I usually typically watch it as a fan first and then

45:30
try to enjoy it. But then, especially if I either know that I'm gonna get this one to sell, I'll go back and rewatch it and sort of go episode, sort of minute by minute, and make a list as  I'm watching either TV or film of the items that  I think  we would want. So typically what happens, like for a studio or production company, they'll give us a list of items or they'll let me go in. Sometimes I go into a warehouse and they're just like, go to  town, take whatever you wanna take. ah And so then,

45:58
I have to have my list of like, want this, this, this, this, this, because sometimes I only have like a day, day and a half to actually get everything out of the warehouse that I want. And so I have to be very precise in asking for certain things. like, oh, I didn't see this. Where is that? But yeah, so it does bleed together. My wife tells me all the time that she's like, what are you doing? You're making lists. And I'm like, sorry, it's second nature. I got to figure out what I'm going for here.

46:25
She's like, we're watching Iron Chef and you're making a note about the burner they're using. You're like, maybe it could be worth $10,000. Come on. I've even thought for like, uh we watch a lot of Bravo shows and it's like, real housewives. I'd like that bunny that they're all passing around.  Yeah, it  gets almost a sickness. Sorry.  Look,  if that's a sickness, I don't even want to know what the negative is.  But look, for the rest of my stuff, I'm just going to just lightening around this. I have also saved or screenshotted of notes. You guys have.

46:55
from the Big Lebowski, the dude's cardigan. And on the topic of appreciating something a little more when it's in front of you, this cardigan actually looks like something I would absolutely wear. I don't know what that says about my fashion choice, but I think it's super cool. You guys have  the Big Lebowski's cardigan. um Obviously, I mentioned the Blade Ensemble and Sword and Scabbard, which is on display right behind you on the video version. And last but not least, the last thing I'll make note  is maybe my favorite item.

47:24
I've praised the Frank Vissetta piece obviously is incredible. All these other comic props and whatnot. But the fact that you guys have the Michael Wilson volleyball from Castaway. don't know if I would- It's one. It's one. I believe there were 12 or 13 of them made according to somebody that I talked to in production. Because you remember, evolves. His hair gets longer. And then they had to have extras just in case, especially for the water scenes, he would get waterlogged and they'd have to have a new one. But yes, it is very cool.

47:54
It is one I think he talks to at the end with the very long hair. It came from originally from the Fox archives. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. And the catalog here, you guys have certain spots on the back  of the volleyball circled. And then you guys have like a frame matching up, which I think speaks once again to  how much on the up and up you guys are, how much you guys do take provenance and the certificate of the authenticity  very seriously. You guys have that trust built in and something that you guys take seriously.

48:23
which got me thinking about, you know, talking about shipping  and, you know, collectors that buy these like  one-of-one pieces and places that you've gone and seen collections. I understand that prop store serves a global audience of collectors, but I'm curious, where are the nerds and fanboys at in the world? Like, where do you guys ship the most? Is there a big concentration  of memorabilia and prop collectors? Do you see any, maybe one country contributing to a lot of sales and purchases? Just out of curiosity.

48:52
Good good question. would actually say yes  the United States is the number one place that we end up shipping what we do options both out of London  and out of the US and for both of those options I would still say that the US is the the number one location for it and we also have a fair presence over in the UK Europe as well.  Canada you know I guess also counted as North America  but we do find occasionally you know there's other places like Dubai or. uh

49:19
in china in some cases that you're finding people movies are loved all over the world and so that's the great thing about it i think they can give the market continues to evolve and i think. Unlike comics that a lot of people know they can collect a lot of people don't know that they can collect movie memorabilia that actually came off of the set they didn't know where they could find it that's part of what's great about us is that we introduce a lot of people to a whole new world of collecting that day.

49:45
they haven't been able to see before. yeah, the US is still the main consumer, at least at this point, of movie memorabilia. But we'll see. It's a relatively new hobby compared to others. And we'll see where it continues to evolve. Fantastic. Chuck, I think you have answered every single nerdy question I had about this. I'm going to have a good time going through the rest of the digital catalog for this upcoming auction, which once again is taking place March 25 through the 27th.

50:14
live in person at Los Angeles. You can also bid online.  I have links to that in the show notes. But Chuck, is there anything that we did not discuss that you want to shine a spotlight on or give a little more information on? Yeah, I'll mention two things. I guess as far as one of my favorite pieces, especially this comic book related is  over to my right over here in the corner,  is  this is the first time a Black Panther helmet has been offered. So this is one that  was actually slightly damaged in production and taken out of production.

50:42
but it's on a Chadwick Boseman uh life cast, but it was one of the stunt  helmets.  But it's amazing that it was used in that movie. um So check that out, especially if you're a Black Panther fan.  The other thing is if you're in Los Angeles or planning on coming to Los Angeles the night before  on March the 24th, we're gonna have a live preview at the Peterson Automotive Museum. People are welcome to come in. Just go to our website, propstore.com. You can register for the event there.

51:09
You're also welcome, you mentioned, it is a live auction. on the 25th, which is the first day where a lot of the key items that we've talked about today are going to be sold, including the Frazetta painting. You can be there live, partake of that, see some of the things that we've got live and in person, and that's free as well. Just come on out. And it's right across from the Academy Museum. So if you want to make a day of it, you can go check out all the amazing things that they have over at the Academy Museum as well and really immerse yourself in the world of film.

51:39
Well, they don't have television there, but film and television, at least if you come to the CR exhibit. That sounds incredible. Chuck, actually, I thought of one more question, a little light hearted, a little fun, but what is the most expensive thing that Prop Store has sold in the history of the company, if you happen to know? Yeah, no, we talked about it at the beginning, which was the Darth Vader lightsaber that we sold last year. That went for $3.625, I believe, a million dollars.

52:06
But you never know, every year that goes by, like Frazetta paintings are sort of setting new records all the time, we're finding new things that set new records. Star Wars has really been our number one franchise. We've been lucky enough in this auction we've got a C-3PO helmet as well from Empire Strikes Back, which is pretty amazing. And we've been lucky enough to, handled Anthony Daniels personal collection in the past. And I think some of the helmets that he had out of his personal collection were selling sort of upwards of sort of $700,000, which is quite a lot.

52:36
We handled an  X-wing that went for, I think, $2.375 million a few years before that. That was a model that was used in the filming of Star Wars. ah But yeah, every year that goes by, new records are made in  the world of film and television.  But at the same time, you can always jump in, whether it  be animation  or  getting something from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that's  relatively affordable.  And you can start  collecting.

53:04
sort of a new offshoot of  your love of comics, which is kind of what hooked me into this industry. Hell yeah. Chuck, I will be tuned into the auction virtually.  And  I'm excited to see what this Frank Fazzetta piece sells for. mean, it's incredible. mean, everything that you shared about it only makes me,  you know, I'm even more anticipating seeing what it goes for and what collector  ends up taking it home. But Chuck, you've been great. Thank you so much for sharing your time with me. Thank you.  And I think with that being said,

53:34
Ladies and gents, is the Short Box Podcast, and we just finished talking to Chuck Costa from Prop Store  about a whole new world that I was unfamiliar with until now, and I think I'm in it, guys. I think I'm gonna have to raise the Patreon rates, because there's some great stuff that Prop Store is selling. We talked about the  genius that is Frank Rosetta, the godfather of fantasy art. We talked about the captive princess painting that is going up for auction  later this month. Hell, speaking about the option, we talked about Prop Store's...

54:02
Entertainment Memorabilia live auction taking place in Los Angeles March 25th through the 27th as well as online. And yeah, and then you guys got to hear me fanboy out about all of these amazing comic book movie props and memorabilia and costumes. Yeah, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm gonna have links, like I said, to the auction, to the digital catalog, all in these show notes. Do yourselves a favor, check it out. And that's all I got for you. You guys have been great and I'll check you out next week. Peace.