Badr Milligan 0:01

Ladies and gentlemen, the short box podcast is recorded live from Jacksonville, Florida. Should move up a little closer. You should. We might as well make it a fireside chat, folks. Yeah, come on up, y'all. We can get to know each other. My name is Bodder, alright? I am here to do your panel today. I'm just gonna go ahead and get this thing started. I've wrote an intro and I'm gonna save my intro, okay? Yeah, go for it. Let's do it, alright? Good afternoon, everyone. I know we're hitting the home stretch of the con, but you know what? We saved the best for last, all right? This is the best for last. Welcome to the Dave Johnson QA panel. Our guest today is a true talent of the uh that is right. Look, Henry Marca. Uh, I'm gonna need you guys to uh clap and applaud uh for all like 10,000, 10,000 seats in here, okay? So let me try that one more time. Good afternoon, everyone. There we go. Yeah. All right, look, I know we're hitting the home show. It sounded like all of 10 people. Dave, here's the best part the video is one view. They'll never see the bank. Oh, you alright? This is a theater of the mind, is what we're doing. All right, fair enough. All right, folks. Welcome to the uh Dave Johnson QA panel. Our guest today is a true talent of the comic industry. He's an Eisner Award-winning comic cover artist and a man whose work has defined the look of modern superhero and comic cover design for over two decades. From his legendary 100-issue run on 100 bullets to his Eisner Award-winning work on detective comics, uh, as well as Superman Red Sun. Uh, his billboard philosophy has changed the way that we look at comic book covers. He was a cornerstone at the legendary Gaijan Studios and even helped shape a generation of animation as a lead designer on Ben 10. Please join me in welcoming Dave the Reverend Johnson to CollectiveCon. Let's give it up, Dave. Super loud. All right, there we go. Dave, welcome to CollectiveCon, man. Oh, thanks for having me. Dave, before we dive into the deep stuff, um, you've been referred to, uh, I mean, how like I said in the intro as the Reverend in this industry for a long time. For the folks who might not be in the know, what is the origin of that story? And uh what the hell are you preaching about?

Dave Johnson 2:27

Well, uh, Dave Johnson's such a boring name. And uh uh back when I was at Gaijun Studios, uh there was a guy who was uh looking to do something nefarious. Uh long story on that one, but uh he told me about this thing called the Universal Life Church, which you could send off uh self-addressed stamped envelope and ten dollars, and it would put you in their roles as a reverend. So if you wanted to start your own religion, they believed that there shouldn't be a gatekeeper against starting your own religion. So I just thought, you know, why not? And uh, you know, uh also I was a fan of Reverend Horton Heat, and I just loved how it rolled off the tongue. So I just started calling myself Reverend Dave Johnson, you know. Dave, that was a better answer than I thought it was gonna be. All right, but I have legal Reverend. I have legally performed three different marriages. So come on now.

Badr Milligan 3:22

Let's get it.

Dave Johnson 3:23

And one of them was Darwin Cook's.

Badr Milligan 3:24

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Well, rest in peace to a true legend right there. He he is sorely missed. Absolutely. Dave, I want to start also with something uh very current. I think that it might be safe to say this is your latest comic book project. Um for the folks at home, I'm holding up a copy of the new Superman Spider-Man um special. I'm holding up the Dave Johnson cover, which features uh Red Sun Superman versus uh Spider Hulk. Um Dave, if you don't mind, I I guess if you don't mind giving us the the play-by-play like breakdown on how this cover came about. Like who reached out to you? Did you get any um um, I guess, like starter ideas? How did this come together?

Dave Johnson 4:01

Uh DC reached out and uh they asked me if I wanted to do one. Of course, I said yes, because uh any idiot would say uh you know yes to such an easy thing to do. Um and uh they gave me a list of uh they they specifically wanted Superman Red Sun, but then they gave me a whole list of uh Spider-Man-esque characters, and uh I said, you know, how ridiculous is a spider hulk? You know, it's the craziest idea ever.

Badr Milligan 4:33

And uh you're like, sign me up for 10.

Dave Johnson 4:35

Yeah, and originally I wanted to make it into kind of like a uh a Soviet uh propaganda poster that would say fight in Russian uh along the bottom, and you're like, Well, people will get confused if it, you know, they'll be like they won't know what it is, and I'm like, What what? And so I came over the compromise, which was I put it like a building thing on the background, so but yeah, it says fight in Russian, which doesn't make any sense. Uh but then again, the whole cover doesn't make any sense, you know.

Badr Milligan 5:09

So on the topic of of Superman Red Sun, uh, you know, this is a character that came to fruition in I think 2003 when you teamed up with Mark Millar to do the Superman story. And and I'm curious, when you were tasked initially with putting a hammer and sickle on Superman's chest for Red Sun, was there ever a moment of like, oh man, I hope the internet does not tear me apart about this? Or did you just like lean into the chaos of a totally different look for Superman?

Dave Johnson 5:37

In in Russian, S is a C, and that you know, that that didn't look very cool, you know. And uh um actually uh I don't know how many people know this, but uh Stalin actually means uh man of steel. You know, curiously enough, uh that wasn't his real name. Um but it just seemed to make sense to put the hammer and sickle because Superman in this story isn't as much of an individual as he is uh whatever he's doing is doing for the state of of Russia. So it made sense that he wouldn't have a personalized thing on his chest, it would be more of a propaganda tool for for Russia. And uh yeah, I originally I thought, well, you know, the Cold War had just about ended at that point, but I I was worried that people would be upset by making Superman a Russian. I mean, you know, it's not as bad as making him a Nazi, but uh but it it seemed to work out and people seem to like uh I've met so many people that weren't fans of Superman, but they seem to have like gravitated towards you know our version of that you know story.

Badr Milligan 6:56

So you know, I I am curious what what was why did that project warrant you uh being able to do or doing the interiors? Because I mean most people know you for I mean, so many different cover work. I think it's safe to say you could probably count on a you know, maybe two hands how much how many times you've actually done an interior work for an extended project.

Dave Johnson 7:16

What was it about like Superman Red Sun that I mean before I became mainly a cover artist, I was doing interiors. I did I did my own uh series for DC called Chain Gang War. I did uh two different mini-series for uh Eric Larson uh called Super Patriots. That's right. And this was the next thing. And uh, you know, when they offered it to me, I was like, hell yeah, it's got propaganda, it's Russia, you know, that would be a lot of fun. And uh I discovered at that point, working on it, that uh I'd I'd rather do one cover at a time than a whole series. So um that's why I never finished it because I I just burned out. So and then after that, I also went into animation and uh you know did that for like 15 years.

Badr Milligan 8:03

So I guess I guess how often are you getting like input from editorial? Are you at a point in your career where you know editors or creative teams are kind of trusting your vision, you know, based on you know your you know the the work that you've done?

Dave Johnson 8:14

Well, I mean, you know, you you always have to work with the editor because they know what they're what they're looking for. Um, but yeah, luckily, you know, you'll have some editor who be like, hey, can you give me like five concepts? And I'm like, no, like I don't have time for that. You're not paying, you're not paying enough for me to do five different versions of a cover. And and I learned early on that if you give an editor too many choices, they inevitably always pick the worst idea. So I just approach it and I say, I've thought about a hundred ideas in my head, but I went with the one that I think I can pull off the best, and and and I think it would be the best version of that cover. And they usually, and I say, hey, if you don't like it after I draw it out, I'll be happy to do you something else. But you know, I I you know, once again, they don't really pay enough, and uh it, you know, hey, if I screw a cover up, I've got next month to do a better job.

Badr Milligan 9:17

So you don't have to say any names, but I am curious, have you ever had any just wild or outlandish, whatever crazy, whatever adjective you want to use, uh input or ask from an editor that maybe worked out better than you expected?

Dave Johnson 9:31

Uh nothing that I can think of. I did do a Batman cover where it was all bat silhouettes and all the info was inside the bat silhouettes. And originally the DC liked it so much that they sent it down to the production and they were gonna make a die cut of it. Um, which I was I was like, okay, I didn't design it to be a die cut, but sure. But then a couple of days later they came back to me and said, Yeah, the die cut's not really gonna be feasible. Can you do us a new design? And I'm like, Well, no, this this design is good. Like, I didn't want it to be a die cut in the first place. So and they were like, Oh, yeah, I guess you're right, you know, so that was kind of funny.

Badr Milligan 10:16

Yeah, Dave, I also came uh doing my research online, I came across a couple of quotes where you've um uh compared comic book covers to to billboards, which you know, a single image that really needs to sell the content of the book and you know be attention grabbing, etc. I'd like to know from you what it what makes for a good comic cover? Like what are some of the elements that you feel need to be prioritized to make a good comic cover that meets that kind of billboard philosophy of yours? Well, yeah.

Dave Johnson 10:44

I mean, if you think about what a bill a good billboard is, it's it it needs to be identified, read, and absorbed within 10 seconds or less to be effective. And you know, uh back when I started doing this these kind of covers, uh, there wasn't a whole lot of design work, you know, in them. Uh and you know, I I I learned early on that sometimes the simpler the cover, the easier it is to pick up and understand when you're in a sea of of color on on the stands. And uh so that you know that kind of started informing my design philosophy to you know make sure the cover was readable, you know, and and simple enough that it you would be able to go, oh, I I understand what that cover is. You know, a lot of covers are way too busy, there's way too many characters, it becomes a sea of color, you know, and it makes it harder, you know. You know, that's why I try to usually stay away from team books because they want all the characters on there, and and it just becomes a mishmash of too much information. So I'm a much more of a simpler cover design guy.

Badr Milligan 12:07

You know, I I think if you were to ask me prior to this to the panel, uh, you know, what comes to mind when I think of a Dave Johnson cover, I think I I would have told you it's either gonna look like a movie poster or a propaganda poster or a classic kind of graphic design uh illustration. And I guess I would like to know, because I have a feeling that I mean the the energy that I get from your artwork is that you're pulling from much more than just like comic artists. Oh, yeah, yeah. What what is in your studio? Like what do you uh what what do you have on? What are you listening to like that that's non-comic? Like, where are you pulling inspiration from that isn't just in the comic realm?

Dave Johnson 12:43

Well, you know, once again, uh when I started absorbing other styles of art and and uh other genres of art, it became like I call it like a big pot of gumbo where I was just adding ingredients constantly. And I I didn't go to school for design.

Badr Milligan 13:04

Specifically, what is in this gumbo? Like what is in the pot?

Dave Johnson 13:06

Well, I mean, uh books on propaganda art, books on uh uh uh paperback novel art, uh uh album cover art, uh, you know, ill just standard illustrator art from the the you know 30s on. And uh, you know, you can pull references from anything, and I think a lot of comic book artists they only look at comic books, you know, or or anime or something like that. It becomes kind of you know, you should be pulling uh influences from everywhere. And uh, you know, I love kind of pushing comic art into other areas, you know, and and and now there's so many people that are doing so many different and unique things, it's yeah, it's kind of hard to stand out anymore, you know. Um uh you know, hopefully I'm not you know, I I look at uh a lot of old guys from the the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s that were kind of house style guys, you know, like guys like Curb Trempe and uh uh Don Heck. And then when the style taste changed, they were pretty much out on the street, you know, when Jim Lee and those guys came along. So I always try to keep it uh in the back of my head uh to never be stagnant on one style or one particular way of doing things. Because you can get stagnant, and and you know, i i call it the McDonald's effect. If if you know the reason McDonald's is so popular is or became popular was no matter where you went, if you know, a different state, you would you knew exactly what that burger was gonna be like, and I think that becomes a comfort food to uh to people who look at art, you know. But if that style completely goes out of favor, then you're you're kind of screwed, you know. And I remember Herb Trempy tried to uh do Rob Leifeld stuff at the end of his career just to fit in, and it I was like, oh that's that's that's kind of sad, you know. So um now everything's hyper rendered and stuff is looking more and more AI looking, you know, uh with all the and and even if it's not AI, but there's so many tools now and and programs that enable you to go more hyper-realistic rendering and stuff, but you know, that's just not my style. You know, I'd rather just do something fun and and interesting, and you know, so maybe there might be a time where the phone stops ringing for me. I don't, you know, I don't know.

Badr Milligan 15:59

So I'm like I'm glad you brought up uh tools because I I'd be curious to know uh how often are you you know getting your hands quote unquote dirty with like you know physical media versus maybe uh uh uh preferring the speed of digital tools and and digital art. Um I I guess what is that balance like for you?

Dave Johnson 16:18

Uh I I personally don't like drawing on a tablet or a Cintique, um but you know I I tend to do all my work uh traditionally on the black and white side, the ink style. Um, but the coloring is way easier in uh in Photoshop. So, you know, when I first started, other people were coloring my stuff, and I usually hated it, you know, or they you know never got it the way I wanted it to be, so I had to learn how to color my own stuff. And I've been doing it ever since.

Badr Milligan 16:52

So what's one thing that you absolutely need to have in in your studio, whether it be like a tool or or something to like maybe personal, like maybe something that you're like finding yourself constantly restocking. Like if you could buy a lifetime supply of of one thing for the studio.

Dave Johnson 17:07

Uh there was a Japanese pen that I I I think I've got like 300 of them at this point, which is good because they discontinued them. So I was like, you know, thankfully I I there was a Japanese pen and they just stopped making them recently.

Badr Milligan 17:22

So um I feel like you're probably very precious and probably very precise when you use those pins.

Dave Johnson 17:28

Well, no, you you gotta you gotta use them and abuse them, otherwise they're kind of pointless to have. So eventually I will run out and I'll just have to find something else to replace it. But maybe I'll be dead at that point, you know. I figured, you know, maybe 12 a year, that'll last me to the rest of my life, you know. Dave, I think you got much longer than 12 pens a year. Yeah, you don't know me.

Badr Milligan 17:51

I'm a hard-living man, you know. So Dave, uh did what do you uh what's your first comic memory? Like, do you remember the first comic you ever read or was given, or the one that like really inspired you? Like, I want to do this full time.

Dave Johnson 18:05

Uh the the ones that really got me into to comics, I mean, I I remember buying them as a kid, but then my mom made me throw them all away, and I didn't buy them for a while. And then I started buying Micronauts toys right before Star Wars came out, and I was really into Micronauts, and then one day I was at the uh local drugstore and there was uh Micronauts number four or five on the stands, and I was like, What? There's you know a comic book about my favorite toy, and it was drawn by Mike Golden, and I became an instant fan of his and that led me to uh discover John Byrne, and so it was like Mike Golden and John Byrne, and then I would go to comic book stores and uh uh they would I would I would find boxes under the main boxes and uh there would be all the 70s underground comics and and like comics like like Metal Hurlant and uh Heavy Metal, which as a young man, I mean that really blew my mind. Um and that you know, once again, it was kind of like it it started pushing me down a road of uh not being uh just a traditional comic book fan, but I was being influenced by all these other you know genres and stuff. Yeah um and then uh at some point I discovered uh uh manga and uh like books like Appleseed and uh Akira. And uh that also influenced everything. And once again, just I just kept putting stuff in the pot of gumbo and just mixing it up and seeing what came out.

Badr Milligan 19:42

So you brought up heavy metal and you made me think about the first time I found my dad's box of heavy metal uh magazines. I was wondering why he kept it separate from his other curve collection. And uh he told me don't go in that box again. Dave, uh uh when did you know that you made it? Like that, hey, I've arrived, I'm like I am this is a legit career path for me. Like, was it a the release of a book? Was it the cosign from a a peer? Was it you know a fan interaction? I guess when did you really feel like okay, I'm in this now, this comic industry? Have I made it? I don't know, you know, like uh I'm still my show of hands, who thinks Dave Johnson has absolutely made in the comic industry? Come on, all a hundred thousand of them in that.

Dave Johnson 20:21

I mean, it's been a good career. I I can't complain. Uh uh, you know, I mean, the first time you uh I remember uh you know, my first gig at DC was uh a fill-in issue of The Web, which was a horrible comic. And uh, you know, seeing that in my hands, you know, it's like whoa, I'm I'm official. Uh you know, it wasn't a good book, it wasn't my best artwork.

Badr Milligan 20:48

Uh but uh it was the one that you're most proud of, would you say? I know it's a long list to think through, but like what immediately comes to mind, like, man, that's that's the one that not only do you did you feel like a sense of like, oh wow, I'm I'm here, but also I put my best foot forward.

Dave Johnson 21:04

I mean the hundred bullets, I mean that was twenty years, you know, of my life, you know, doing you know, a cover every month for 12 years, and then the you know, you had to trade paperback covers and it just kept going. Um you know, I was really proud of that. And uh, you know, uh designing Ben 10, um which, you know, I mean, that's a better sweet one because I'm proud of what I what I co-created. Um, but you know, seeing that it's gone on for as long as it's gone on using my designs and and you know, it m I think the last I saw it made it's made over eight billion dollars, you know, which is bigger than some of the Marvel stuff, you know, and I get zip. So uh, you know, I was on the second season and the toys started coming out. And uh, which were all my designs. I didn't have any help uh from the creators, quote unquote, uh of the show. And uh I asked uh the producer, I said, Hey, these these toys, can I get a set? And he goes, Yeah, target's right down the street if you want to go buy some. And I was like, Are you shitting me? Like, you can't even give me a set of these toys. And uh, you know, between that and the guy that was right above me, he was a giant asshole. So I just I left, you know.

Badr Milligan 22:32

So, you know. Dave, I'm sorry you had to go through that, man. I I know comics is a is a hard industry for artists. I mean, they we could it's the whole history of it is, you know, um rich with uh unfortunate, you know, uh you know, lack of competition.

Dave Johnson 22:47

I'm in good company. I mean, you know, you don't Stanley and even the guy who created uh who actually created Mickey Mouse, you didn't yeah, he didn't get to own it. So, you know, it is what it is.

Badr Milligan 22:58

You brought uh you did you brought up Ben 10, and I will say that is a a cartoon I I I vividly remember kind of growing up watching through the eyes of my little brothers and just enjoying it myself. And I think it's safe to say, uh, you know, present company included up until now that many fans that grew up with Ben 10, you know, probably didn't realize that you know you design all those original cards.

Dave Johnson 23:17

Oh no, yeah, yeah. They always think the men of action did it, and I was like, no, they they really didn't. It was I I designed the whole show.

Badr Milligan 23:24

So is the biggest difference between designing a character for a 22-minute cartoon versus uh you know a single comic book cover that's you know static images?

Dave Johnson 23:34

I don't think there is a difference, really. I mean, uh with designing for animation, you gotta make sure that it's it can be animated, you know, you can't make it too complicated. But you can say the same thing about a comic book. I mean, because somebody's gonna have to draw it 22 pages every month. So, you know, like uh I did a series of silk covers, and uh the initial design had way too many webs all over her, you know, and I was like, oh my god, what a nightmare, you know. And uh I asked if I was gonna do the the series covers if I could redesign the costume, and I did, and seemed to have worked out. People seem to like it, so you know. Um so there really isn't much of a difference, you know. You just can't make it too complicated. Yeah, I know the new uh absolute poison ivy costume looks like a freaking nightmare. I wouldn't want to draw that with a gun to my head. It's like that would I would never be able to do a book. I would it would never get finished. I would be drawing that costume for way too much, you know. It's it's no, no, hell no.

Badr Milligan 24:46

You know, I on the topic of of of modern art, I've I think I, you know, I had a chance to talk to you before we did the panel that I've been in a few interviews where your name has been brought up and you know, great stories, people have had great things to say about you. Um all lies, all lies. I mean, I did pay them. Um, but when you think about maybe the the modern landscape of comics, maybe just in general and art, what what are some uh uh artists, creators that that you're looking out for that you think you know other people would enjoy? If they're like, hey, I like Dave Johnson, who else should I be on the lookout for?

Dave Johnson 25:18

I uh I've I've said this online a bunch, but uh Gigi Cavanago is one of the guys that just blows me away. He started over in Europe doing Dylan Dog stuff. Oh and uh he is you know, he did uh the Order of the Magic, uh the Mark Millar uh book, and he he did that um I don't know if you saw uh Love, Death and Robots. He did uh was it how Zeke Got Religion? Uh he he won an Emmy for it. I mean that guy is just a beast. Uh but you know, there's so many good artists now. It's it's really it's it's humbling and exciting all at the same time. Um, you know, but you know, old classic guys like like I said, Mike Golden, and you know, he still can bring it. Um he's always been amazing and uh you know Kirby and Mobius, and uh I could go on and on and on, you know. And I mean one of the greatest things about being a comic artist and and getting into the business is you've you get to meet the heroes that you know you grew up looking at and and uh enjoying and and and having their feedback, like you know, like I met Jim Starenko uh the first time I met Jim Starenko, I was worried that, you know, because people were referring me or referring to me as like the new Jim Starenko, as far as like how designy my stuff was. And uh, you know, when I finally got to meet him, I was worried that he'd be pissed off that people were even uh you know referring to me as as him, and and he was just he was like he kept a file on me. Oh wow, yeah, it blew my mind, you know. Now I'm friends, I'm really good friends with Howard Shaken, and uh, you know, we get together for lunch like usually about once a month with guys like Bill Sinkevich and Mark Chiarello and wow, just a bunch of old guys that all live in Los Angeles and and we try to invite other people along for the ride every once in a while. And uh it's it I mean that to me is a big thrill. You know, I I kind of wish I'd met some of the older guys before they'd you know ultimately passed, uh, just to see if they give me a thumbs up or not. Like, am I am I am I doing okay, sir?

Badr Milligan 27:42

You know, like you know, uh on the topic of that, uh, one of those names that um you know I that had a lot of great things to say about you is the writer uh Doug Wagner. Uh and he spoke real fondly about uh the the Gaijan studio days. I mentioned in the intro that you know that included people like you, Cully Hamner, Adam Hughes, Brian Stelfries, Jason Pearson, Tony Harris, uh Joe Phillips, Carol Story, like a murderous row of just insanely talented artists. What is the most uh prevalent memory you have of that time? And did you ever have a uh, I guess, you know, I'm thinking like Adam Hughes, Brian Stelfries, all these like great like artists around. Like, how often were you guys trading notes and like getting lessons and doing critiques? Like, does anything stand out from that time?

Dave Johnson 28:30

Well, I mean, when I joined Gai Gen, I I wasn't published yet. Um and actually Brian Stelfries didn't even want me in the studio because he didn't want a studio full of wannabes.

Badr Milligan 28:41

Wow.

Dave Johnson 28:42

You know, he wanted you know guys who were actually working. And uh so, but they gave me uh like a uh what do you call it, uh a grace period uh to see if I could you know make it. And I was like a dry sponge when I joined that studio, and I just soaked up as much of you know what they could teach me as I could. And uh I learned about storytelling, and I learned about you know just every aspect of comics, just osmosis, you know, looking at what they were doing and and how they were doing it and their philosophy and stuff. Uh it was a great learning experience that you know I basically got for free, except for you know, paying rent, because we were all paying rent towards the collective whole. And uh it was it was great. We were super slow, we were super, we would always get distracted, you know, uh having talking about stuff and playing hacky sack, and I mean we were known for not making you know deadlines very well. Um, but you know, it all worked out for just about everybody, so you know, but yeah, it was a great experience, and uh I was in there for about two and a half years.

Badr Milligan 29:57

So wow. I want to get back to um 100 bullets, uh, because it it's definitely when I think of Dave Johnson, I definitely go to 100 bullets. I mean, it's it's insanely impressive, right? Like that series I think ran from 1999 to 2009, you know, Ryan Azarello, uh Eduardo Rizzo doing uh the story and interiors, and you did all of the covers. I mean, 100 plus covers. What was it like trying to maintain the visual identity for that long? And and you know, at any point did you feel I I guess like did you develop shortcuts? Did you develop like a signature that you leaned on to make that experience easy? I mean, what was that like building that visual identity for a hundred bullets, which I think you know is is one of the best looking books, you know, still to this day?

Dave Johnson 30:45

It um, you know, when we started, uh I had full script, I had had the art that was drawn and inked. Uh and so that made it easy because I could see what the book was, but you know, because we have to do things so far in advance for previews and catalog, uh it got to the point where I was you know, it got to the point where I was just getting pencils, and then it got to the point where the pencils weren't even done yet, but it was a full script, and then it got to the point where Brian hadn't even started writing it yet, and I had to come up with a cover. So I would have these conversations with Brian. I'm like, dude, what do I put on a cover? And and luckily about that time, you know, the whole series had been developed, and and uh, you know, a lot of the characters had been developed, and uh so that's why if you look at the whole run of the covers, you know, they're very character heavy at the beginning and story, you know, at the beginning, and then they become more uh suggestive because I didn't want to put anything in the on the cover that wasn't gonna be in the book, so I I started relying more on the uh iconography of uh the the trust hand and and uh you know just kind of you know give you an impression of what might happen. And but that that actually led to some really cool covers, you know. Not every cover to be successful has to have all the elements of the story in on the cover. It just kind of has to evoke an emotion. And uh, you know, once again, it kind of worked out. I mean, there was a case where the story takes place in Miami, and I had the idea of uh of an image of uh like when somebody's floating in water uh at night in a pool and the light is inside the pool, it kind of creates a sh like a dark shadow on the back that's not in the water, and I wanted to do that, and I was like, you know, and I told Brian, I was like, you know, I want to draw somebody who's been knifed in the back, laying in the pool, yeah, and the blood coming down the water, and and you see a face in the blood. And and I said, You can do that in the in the story, right? Kill somebody, and he goes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he didn't. And I was like, Oh man, it's gonna make me, you know, like you made me a liar. Damn it, Brian. Yeah, and uh towards the end of the run, I said, Look, before you end this story, somebody has to die in a pool, so it makes it look like we, you know, I was a genius and we gave you a preview of what was gonna happen. And he did. That's awesome. So it all worked out.

Badr Milligan 33:37

So that's awesome. Um, I uh I got one more question. I would like to open it up to uh the the audience. If anyone has a uh if anyone has a question or would like to think of one, um I'm gonna give you guys time and then uh you know you guys can ask it to Dave himself. But Dave, uh you know, I'm hearing you say that you know you you get uh input from editorial, you know, every now and then uh it sounds like at least a hundred bullets case that you got the full script, the full pages. Um Is there ever been a script that has really moved you? Like that is that's let that left an impression on you that you know that I don't know, what whatever you know feelings came to that. But is there a particular script that comes to mind that you got that you were like, man, this is amazing stuff, and then channeled it into the cover or whatever the project was?

Dave Johnson 34:23

I mean, most of the time now I don't even get scripts. I you know, the the with all the variant covers, they just want something with the characters. And I'm like, come on, you gotta give me a little bit more than that. But you know, that's why so many variant covers are just basically pinups, you know. They they don't really do a whole lot other than hey, here are my boobs or here's my muscles, you know, kind of a thing. Um uh but I you know I it's funny, I I was a fan of Hundred Bullets, and because once again, because of the way I had to sorry, I had to do stuff so far in advance by the time the book came out, I was reading it like everybody else. Cool. And uh there was so many, I remember there was a New Orleans uh uh storyline where this uh trumpet player ended up uh falling into a bear trap and and he uh took his bottom lip off. And so no more trumpet player for you know for that guy, and it was man, it was a brutal story. Um and I have a fond memory of that one because uh Eduardo made me uh a character in in that story. Oh the biggest, and I was a real uh real asshole in the in the book, so that was kind of funny.

Badr Milligan 35:47

A hard living man, huh? Yeah, I've been funny.

Dave Johnson 35:50

I've you know, I've been in a quite a few books. I was in a Darwin Cook uh uh get Carter uh Oh, that's cool. Um was it uh uh uh Parker? Yeah, Parker, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant. Uh yeah, I get killed by with a shotgun. Uh Jimmy Pommiati put me in a in a uh Harlequin book, me and me and Dan Penossian. We're on a beach. Uh, we're in Speedoes, you know, it's kind of ridiculous.

Badr Milligan 36:18

Um your friends don't take advantage of making fun of you and uh kind of like what type of friends are they? Yeah, of course. I I do it all the time myself. So awesome. All right, I've I've got plenty more questions, but I would like to open up. Does anyone in the audience have a question they'd like to ask? Uh Dave Johnson? Nope. Okay, well, look, I will I I'm gonna take it that you guys are enjoying the flow of the show. All right, oh, good. Well, I'm doing a good job. Yeah, he's doing a really good job. Okay, well then uh Dave, um, with four minutes left, I hopefully I can get off these last two questions. But you know, you've been in the industry, you know, like you know, very 30 plus years. So you've seen a lot of it change, you've seen trends come and go, et cetera, et cetera. But on the topic of of a cover artist, I guess what is how has the role of a cover artist changed in today's day and age of comics compared to when you first came in? Has it changed any, if any well, I think it's changed with all the variant covers, you know.

Dave Johnson 37:16

Um and uh how do you feel about that trend? Hey, it's kept me in kept me in, you know, uh, you know, kept me in my apartment, that's for sure. Because, you know, once again, the competitions, there's so much competition now. Like when I started, it won it wasn't anywhere near uh as as flooded with talent, you know. Um I mean I you know, I even even when I'm doing a variant that is just a pinup cover, I try to make it somewhat interesting, you know, beyond just a guy standing there, you know, beautifully drawn. Um so yeah, you know, uh it's whatever flows people's boats, you know. I always look at variant covers as almost like a choose your own adventure. You know, you don't have to go with the the standard cover. Um so once again, it it it it's kept me, it's kept the lights on for me. So I can't I can't really complain.

Badr Milligan 38:18

And I guess to go back to my original question, I mean, do you feel like the role of the cover artist has changed dramatically or or much since no, no, you're still trying to get butts and seats, you know?

Dave Johnson 38:29

You were still trying to get somebody to pick the book up, and if you do a good job, then then hopefully it it helps sell the book.

Badr Milligan 38:37

So Okay. All right, I got one last question for you. This one is a is a white whale, what if kind of question. Is there a specific character or like a specific universe or world in comics that you haven't had the chance to touch, but you've got maybe like a a killer design for the back of your head? In the back of your head that you're like, just the minute they give me this opportunity, I already know what I want to do.

Dave Johnson 38:57

You know, it's funny. I grew up a total Marvel zombie, and but yet I've I've actually done way more work for DC. Yeah. Um, Batman's always fun, but at the same time, Batman is how many different ways I mean, you know, I've almost kind of exceeded my ability to do something new, you know, and and that's that's one of my things that kind of drives me a little crazy. I I it's hard for me to just rest on my laurels and kind of do the same old, same old, you know, and and you know, Batman's one of those characters, like there's been a million versions uh within that, and it's hard to come up with something new and interesting, you know. Uh personally, I'd like to do more Nick Fury. I don't know why I'm drawn to that. You know, like I just think he's the coolest character ever, and and uh, you know, I've had a lot of fun drawing him, so you know. Uh I don't know. You know, it's whatever's whatever comes next, you know, looking for new challenges, and it's as long as it's uh the character has a good design, I can usually have some fun with it.

Badr Milligan 40:11

I'm sure we've all heard of uh comfort food, but is there a such thing as like comfort art? Like do you ever find yourself just drawing one particular thing, character, whatever, maybe just to just uh I don't know, just for the hell of it?

Dave Johnson 40:22

You know, I I you know you get to a point where I feel like a sausage maker, and the last thing I want to do is go home and and eat a eat a sausage, you know. So if if I'm doing anything for myself, it's not comics, it's something completely different.

Badr Milligan 40:38

How do you separate like what do you do to separate from drawing and comics? Like do you have another hobby or something that you're also really into?

Dave Johnson 40:45

Right now, I I I kind of don't. I I got into costume making briefly. Oh wow. I made a samurai armor out of uh rubber-made garbage can material because I wasn't cool enough to use all the new new stuff. Uh I hope you have a picture of this because I want to see it after this. Oh yeah, no, I got them. Yeah, uh, it turned out it turned out way better than it should have. That's sure. Um, and it could take a licking. I mean, it's actually sitting on a mannequin along with a Superman samurai outfit in Mark Brooks's uh man cave because I didn't have any room to bring it out to LA with me. So um and we actually wore it for Dragon Con one year. Uh it was crazy. So um but yeah, it was just fun making it, you know. So that's awesome.

Badr Milligan 41:31

Well, look if you ever have uh any more um a superhero themed samurai outfits that you need help storing. I've got uh a whole storage unit. Um one last question to wrap us up. Dave, what are you currently uh working on? What can people expect from you in the future?

Dave Johnson 41:46

Well, the the popkill uh hardback just came out, and that's been a fun ride.

Badr Milligan 41:51

For those that don't know, what is popkill about?

Dave Johnson 41:53

Popkill is basically what if Coke and Pepsi really, really, really, really, really hated each other and to the point where they would hire uh saboteurs and assassins to go after you know each each each one. Uh and the story is about a woman who worked for one of the companies and she was on the verge of creating a formula that would make uh soda fizier 50% longer. And the other side finds out about it, they activate their best James Bondian kind of guy to either seduce her and bring her over, but if you can't do that, then to kill her, uh, because they'd rather nobody have this formula than their competition. And but once he meets her, he comes up with a third option, which is they take you know what she's about to create and try to sell it, and then that enrages Coke and Pepsi, and they try to kill both of them, and it's it's a shoot 'em up kind of thing. And and it's sold really well, and people seem to really love it. And uh so now we're doing a sequel where those same two characters now run afoul of the candy industry. So it's called Pop Kill Big Candy. So that's it. And it's full of the craziest characters you could ever want to meet. So it's just a goofy little fun book that I've I had an idea for it years and years and years ago, and now it's it's out there and done, and and uh I'm writing it with Jimmy Palmiotti, and and uh it's just been a blast.

Badr Milligan 43:28

So that sounds awesome. And to everyone in the honest, you can actually check it out. He's got a copy of the book at his table. Highly recommend you guys stop by. Uh, but Dave, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for giving us a curtains. Thanks for all the five people that have showed up. Let's give it up for yourselves, let's give it up for Dave Johnson. You guys have been great.

Dave Johnson 43:48

Uh please do sta stop by his table, check out his well I'm leaving now, but 'cause it con is just about over, so but come by tomorrow or go to Gotham. Gotham has uh the booth at Gotham. Gotham City with the hardbacks and For sure. Highly recommend it. All right.

Badr Milligan 44:01

Let's give them one more round of applause, folks, and do yourselves as well. Thank you so much.