Badr Milligan 0:10

The Short Box Podcast is recorded live from Jacksonville, Florida. Hey everyone, I'm sitting here at the booth of a man whose pen has drawn some of the funniest faces in all of animated uh history. He is the original character designer of Bob's Burger and the co-creator and animator for the Nickelodeon show, San Jay and Craig. I'm sitting here for the legendary Jay Howell. Jay, how are you doing? Good, thank you. Nice to meet you. Pleasure being able to sit here with you. Thank you. Jay, you have had this will be very interesting to watch you multitask.

Jay Howell 0:53

Okay, sure, I can do it. I'll try my hardest. Here we go. Here we go.

Badr Milligan 0:55

Starting. You have had a line wrapped around the corner all weekend. I I don't even want to try to estimate how many uh sketches that. I read out a paper a long time ago. Yeah, which is uh a good problem to have. Is this more fun for you, or do you see it as kind of like an exercise to keep your skills sharp?

Jay Howell 1:12

I'm not sure who wants to do exercise ever. This is just fun for me. I love to draw, I love to hang out, you know. This is Do you ever pick up any uh, I don't know, like new techniques in the world? Constantly, yeah. I mean, doing a lot of music festivals and uh I don't do very many conventions, but um you see you see new things, you see new outfits, you see new hairstyles, new shapes. I definitely incorporate it into my drawings all the time. It's it's it's helped me like grow as an artist for sure.

Badr Milligan 1:37

Now, you know, we're here at Collective Con, we're surrounded by physical art, we're surrounded by handmade crafts, by comic books, etc. In an age where we've got AI and super polished digital art, what do you think? Why do you think people are lining around the corner to have a more hand-drawn, slightly messier vibe? Messier. In a good way, in a good way. I think that's what makes your art unique. It's got this frenetic live energy to it. I think it's been described as beautifully human.

Jay Howell 2:05

Thank you. Um that's awkward. That's a really nice thing to say. Um AI is fine. I don't care about it. It's it's it's a it serves a purpose. I mean, it's just another phase like YouTube or something like TikTok, or you know, everyone thought that'd be the death of everything. It's just AI, I mean, AI is fine. It's uh I don't know, it's just it's just um it's to me. I think people people want interaction, people want experience, people want one-on-one things. People want when everyone can do anything, that becomes boring super quickly. You know what I mean? Like it's it's that that's that's how it is. You know what I mean? It's just like it loses its luster. So AI in a lot of ways, like you know, look at Instagram reels, like, oh, there's a bull going through a China shop and everyone's thing, it's just like that's not that's fine. I mean, it's just that just like you're just listening to pop music at that point, you're not you're not special, you know what I mean? So people really are seeking out getting tattoos, getting prints made, they want one-on-one experiences, they want more cool things happening. So, yeah, I mean that's just really it. It's it's it's gonna continue to be that way. You know what I mean?

Badr Milligan 3:03

Yeah, what you know I want to take us back to uh I believe it was June 2011, is when Bob's burger first came in. If I got my dates right, yeah. What do you recall about seeing your art in motion for the first time? You know, like was it?

Jay Howell 3:19

I was doing I was doing some indie stuff before that, but seeing it like on that level was uh was amazing, like truly. Um Lauren stood up and he's like the first thing Lauren said at the party is like, people hate new comedy, people don't like new things. He's like, but this show's really good and we have a real chance of like getting there. And I was just like, yeah, dude, we do. And then I just went crazy from there.

Badr Milligan 3:40

Now, how do you feel about the show and its legacy? You know, fast forward now, you know, over 300 episodes, 16 seasons in. I think it just got renewed for like 19 seasons. Um I I guess how do you feel about the success that the show has had and like having your name attached with it? It keeps me relevant.

Jay Howell 3:59

And that's all I think. That's what the old man needs these days, you know what I mean?

Badr Milligan 4:03

I have to have something going. I am curious about uh the the the art team and and what was the process. Was it hard? I guess what's the hardest part of translating your unique style into motion and giving it life and animated form.

Jay Howell 4:16

It was a real learning experience too, because I was just like making skateboard graphics and independent comics and stuff. I had no idea how I was gonna like translate any of it, so it was uh it was a real learning curve. It took it took forever, you know what I mean? Like each character took like a year or so to really like to work out. So it's cool. I'm really happy that it happened.

Badr Milligan 4:34

Now, for the aspiring artist that wants to get into animation as well, what are some animated shows that you think are quintessential to study? To uh and they don't have to be like the the big names, maybe even personal things.

Jay Howell 4:46

I love the introductions to all the Pink Panther movies. Like I love those intros so much. I think they're really, really cool. They're really well done. The colors are great, they're very inventive. I I watch those quite often to find like more inspiration. I like I like a series called Moomin, which is uh like this Scandinavian uh comic series. I look at that a lot for like line work and kind of inspiration in that too. But those are two things like I find a lot of like keep going back to.

Badr Milligan 5:10

Yeah. One last question. One last question for you. You famously got the Bob's Burger gig based on your uh do-it-yourself zines. I think uh Punksy It Cut was the name of it. What role, if any, does the that that DIY, that zine culture still play in your career now?

Jay Howell 5:26

It's everything. I mean, and that's what that's and that's what Lauren Bouchard, the creator of Bob's, was excited. He wants to do. Like, look at everything he's done. Look at Luke's daughter of the devil, look at home movies, look at Dr. Katz. He's always looking for independent, new, cool things that are happening and finding artists. And it's his curiosity and you know, my weirdness that came together and things really worked out.

Badr Milligan 5:46

One last question for you on the topic of zines, as a lifelong comic book fan. What are some uh some of your favorite zines, like ones that you would point people towards uh to learn more about the culture of zines?

Jay Howell 5:58

They're all like adults, so you know what I mean. I really like a zine called Roller Derby quite a bit. I think that's a really good one. Um, I like uh the zine called Comet Bus, I was really into as well. Um, and just tons of fanzines out there, you know, like old skateboard zines and stuff too, which are really cool, like wrench pilot and other stuff like that. That's really important to me. Hell yeah.

Badr Milligan 6:16

Well, Jay, thank you so much for the comments. Thank you so much for the channel. This is great. Hey Collective Con, it's your boy Badr here on the show floor, and I'm standing with Andrew Robinson. He is an Eisner award-winning comic artist, painter, multimedia artist. Uh, he's got an amazing signature painted art style that has graced the pages and covers of hundreds of comic books for the likes of Marvel, DC, Dark Horse Image. You name it, he's done it. He's here at Collective Con with us. I'm excited to talk to him. Andrew, it is always a pleasure seeing you here, man.

Andrew Robinson 6:47

Hey, good to see you again, man.

Badr Milligan 6:49

Andrew, at this point, you're like a a veteran, uh uh, you know, a veteran talent of the of the show. Um, some might not know that you were born and raised in St. Augustine, less than an hour from here. Did you ever have anything like this growing up? I mean, what does it feel like having a reason to come back to your home state and partake in an event like this?

Andrew Robinson 7:09

Uh, it's really cool, especially come out to Jacksonville. Uh I actually went to high school in Jacksonville, Alanese high school. That was crazy. Uh, even like I get to see some friends from my art class, which is great. Awesome. Um, yeah, it's good to be back.

Badr Milligan 7:24

Now, Andrew, I mentioned in the uh intro, you're kind of a master and a jack of all trades when it comes to art mediums. I mean, uh pencil, ink, watercolor, uh uh charcoal, etc. I'm curious about what's the decision making process like when deciding on what medium or art uh you know art tool that you're gonna use? Is it based on the project? Is it more of a gut instinct? Is it input for editorial? How do you go about approaching a project and what tools you'll be using?

Andrew Robinson 7:54

Uh I kind of go with whatever feels right. Um, but also it's what the uh publishers ask for. So as a cover artist, sometimes they want it to be just you know a black and white traditional in cover with uh Photoshop colors. What about uh but other times because they want something a little more realistic, so then I go for a painted uh piece, and I might even take reference shots, get models, yeah, get the lighting just right, and uh again try to make it a little more realistic.

Badr Milligan 8:24

Yeah. Now I think a lot of people know you from that, especially in the note that you know appreciate comic books and original graphic novels. I think a lot of people will know you from your work on the Fifth Beatles original graphic novel, which I believe is what won you that that Eisner. Um I know I think it's safe to say that music plays a big role in in your art. There's a certain like sense of musicality to your artwork. Um could you I guess talk a little bit more about like the role that music plays in your art and what type of music that you listen to when creating?

Andrew Robinson 8:56

Um, well, as far as music and my taste, it's uh very eclectic, kind of all over the place. Um as of late and listened to a lot of uh Brian uh Jonestown Massacre, and then a spin-off from that is uh Tess Parks, really like her a lot. Uh for me, like getting to that initial idea and drawing for a cover and designing, it's not just the drawing and and uh trying to get all that correct, but there's like you need sort of an emotion to it to really get through and like have people not just like the drawing, but they have to feel something. Yeah. And so it's nice to get the right soundtrack and the mood that just kind of gives you that extra something that it's not really it's hard to describe, it's not really something you see, but again, it's something you feel.

Badr Milligan 9:43

Let me ask this uh because you've got uh prints of your um uh variant cover for absolute Martian Manhunter. What kind of music was either playing or what music uh uh what yeah, what kind of music does this image evoke for you?

Andrew Robinson 9:57

Right. Uh me, it's just kind of like that space, psychedelic rock, yes, is a good way to put it.

Badr Milligan 10:04

Yeah, well said. Alright, Andrew, I said in the intro, you know, I I could probably spend a lot more time going through your accolades, but you've been working in comic books for 30 plus years. How do you keep the energy high? How do you what what keeps you excited about the the industry and the art form that is comic books?

Andrew Robinson 10:22

Um for me it's just telling good stories, you know, and hopefully reaching the people that appreciate you know the way that you draw, the way you tell a story. One time the way you have your own little sort of angle and style. And uh again, uh I wish I was just faster, you know, because I've got a lot of stories to tell. But unfortunately, like I like to draw pretty pictures and trying to make everything look pretty takes time.

Badr Milligan 10:49

Absolutely. Um I think we can all appreciate the fact that you do take your time and put a lot of thought and energy into it. I want to talk about speaking about your own story stories and original uh stories and whatnot. Um, your latest project, Standstill, just came out. It's collected in this very nice and very interesting horizontal hardcover. Can you talk tell the people at home what the story is about?

Andrew Robinson 11:11

Um it's kind of a technoir story, and I can go ahead and like tell the spoiler, it's like a guy gets this device which can actually stop time. But I mean there's some limitations to that, but then you know, if you could stop time, what would you do with it?

Badr Milligan 11:27

Yeah. Okay. Well, look, uh the story I'm sure is amazing, and one other thing for sure, the pictures are going to be as pretty as Andrew Robinson said.

Andrew Robinson 11:36

But uh if you get the hard back, then you can see it in the format it was meant to be seen in, which is horizontal.

Badr Milligan 11:41

Which I don't think there's a lot, I think that's what makes this unique. You don't see a lot of uh collected editions printed in that horizontal format. There's only like a handful that come to mind for me. But Andrew, this has been great. Uh for the folks at home, uh, catch uh Andrew Robinson. If you're ever at a convention like CollectiveCon, get a chance to stop by, it is a mandatory. See all the amazing art he's got. Andrew, this has been great. Thank you. Hey, Badr, thank you. Collective Con. Hey, what's up? My name is Badr Milligan, and I'm sitting here at Comic Colorist Artist Extraordinaire, Mike Spicer's booth. What up, Mike? How you doing? Now, for those of you that might not know, all right, Mike Spicer is a comic colorist extraordinaire. He's the uh primary partner of Daniel Warren Johnson. He's colored all of his acclaimed work, including how to do a power bomb, murder falcon. I mean, the list really goes on. Uh, Mike has also worked with Marvel in DC. He's colored for Wonder Woman, Batman, and he's the current colorist for the Transformer series, uh, helping to redefine the Autobots and Decepticons for a brand new generation. Mike, it is always a pleasure seeing you here at ClinchyCom, buddy. Mike, now I mentioned in the intro that you and and Daniel Warren Johnson's partnership is pretty legendary at this point. For those that might not know, how much of your color approach is discussed ahead of time? And versus how much of it is you just reacting to the colour. Almost zero. Like wow.

Mike Spicer 13:00

And that's from like the beginning, too. Uh, I did like a test page of stuff, and just the work I was sending in, and I think Extremity was the first thing we did. And uh it just clicked. We just clicked. Uh, I guess you know, Dan likes my colors, and really all we do is like uh I'll he'll send me the scripts, an idea of what he wants to do, and then I send stuff back, and he has a little maybe just small things here and there. You know, if I miss something, or like if there's a part of the art where it should be like uh background instead of like character or something. But um yeah, not a ton of direction. He trusts me to 100%, I think.

Badr Milligan 13:37

Yeah, I I think it better. I think it comes through in the work for sure. I want to shift gears and uh talk about, let me see if it's around. Oh, here it is. I want to talk about Batman the favorite subject. Yeah, my wife. The Batman, this is it. That was a very well, that was a uh husband as I've ever heard one. I want to talk about Batman the Second Night. Uh it is a time piece period, right? It takes place in 1939, if I'm not mistaken. Uh, you do the colors on this alongside Dan Jurgens, who's the writer, and Mike Perkins, the amazing Mike Perkins. Perky, yeah, he's the best. Perkins, yeah, who's a great artist. How do you go about shifting your brain from neon, big robot, you know, explosions and transformers to something a little more grounded and more shadowy and more noir?

Mike Spicer 14:20

Well, I used to uh like bounce from like uh one book to another. Um I mean I still do, but like, okay, so I prefer to work sequentially. So I I prefer to work like let's say I'm doing Transformers, I prefer to work one through 20 uh and then jump on to the next book. I used to like because sometimes uh the artist will send you art and you'll be waiting on some more pages from them, and you'll get art from another artist, so you don't want to be waiting around, so you'll jump to another book. But for me, it's like I prefer to work on one book and go to the next for that exact reason because I want to stay in that mindset and yeah, in uh the vibe of that book and know and remember what I'm doing from the the couple pages before because it really is like the colors are storytelling as well, and you have to make sure that you know you you're in the story, yeah. You're you're mentally in the story and helping move it along, hopefully.

Badr Milligan 15:11

And I'm glad I'm I'm glad you you said that about you know the the the purpose of colors in a comic book because I feel like a common misconception that maybe a casual fan or people just not in the know have is that oh, color just fills in the line. But I've always thought of you guys uh as a colorist more like the director of photography. Could you speak to maybe like what are some of those common misconceptions that people get wrong about the color stuff?

Mike Spicer 15:33

Yeah, again, it's not just like uh just adding colors, uh a lot of color theory to it. Like color makes you uh makes you feel different emotions, angry, sad, scared, and attention can add tension. Um there's a lot of storytelling when it comes to to colors. Yeah, um, if you go into even just like things you don't even really pick on, like you can think of like action scenes as like red and like orange and and and yellow because they're very vibrant and and there's a lot, there's a lot happening and very powerful, but then like there's stuff you don't think about, like let's say you're in a hospital scene. You know, most of the time that stuff's like got green in it for some reason. The hospitals have traditionally had like green colors on the inside. So you things you don't even think about, like the the walls and the hospital, what colors those would be, and how because if you had a purple hospital, you walked into a purple hospital, you're like, that doesn't feel like a hospital. So you have to know these things as well, just the simple things, but also the storytelling things, too.

Badr Milligan 16:30

I think I'm in a jamba juice. Right.

Mike Spicer 16:32

I don't think I'm gonna get my leg fixed. I'm working on a book right now, it's like 1970s. You wouldn't have like a neon green car, just basics like that, too. You know, some things you don't even think consider, but if that you did have that in there, it'd stand out. But again, the storytelling elements are the most important part of the color. Um, you know, the sad's part of the story. Again, you don't want huge, vibrant colors because it wouldn't make sense. You'd feel off. You'd literally look at it and you know, I feel this doesn't feel right. Yeah. Without even thinking about it.

Badr Milligan 17:00

That's well said. Now I want to talk about uh the the elephant in the room, which is you have uh the color sorry, the elephant in the room being that you've got a couple issues of uh absolute Batman, specifically the issues and the covers that Daniel Warren that you've worked on with Daniel Warren Johnson. It is, I think, factual to say that Absolute Batman might be the hottest book of definitely the last two years, if not maybe the last decade. I'm curious from someone that is you know uh boots on the ground, what is uh, you know, what is the hype around Absolute Batman? Why do you think it has garnered such attention, you know, and what's what's it been like, you know, being able to contribute, you know, your art to the franchise in the.

Mike Spicer 17:40

Well, I mean, I like every version of uh Batman, first of all, just so let me get that on record. My favorite is actually like this classic type of Batman. But every I think every Batman, every generation has its Batman that fits that generation, yeah, and maybe how they're feeling. And I think like a big F off Batman is what we kind of need right now. Uh and it's just I don't know, I think it helps make the reader like feel empowered. Um, but yeah, it blew up. Like last year I was at Heroes, and the book, you know, we uh Absolute Batman was doing well, but I don't know what happened. Like someone said the other day, like maybe the introduction of introduction of Joker helped elevate it more for people to pay attention because it does feel like that was extreme, yeah.

Badr Milligan 18:23

The second winning.

Mike Spicer 18:23

And then it just like the books just took off. Um, absolute Batman annual number one is the book is been such a success. People love it. I I've signed so many of these books, it's crazy. Uh MegaCon, it was like I was there for only three hours. I signed so many, they were just coming and coming together. All absolute Batman annual. Could not stop signing those books. I can't complain. Thank you. Yeah, no, yeah, there's a lot of them. That's awesome.

Badr Milligan 18:48

That's popular. All right, and I guess speaking about characters for a new generation, uh, you know, I I mentioned that you are, are you still doing the you're the primary colorist for the new Transformers run? I'm still working on Transformers, yeah.

Mike Spicer 18:59

I'm not going anywhere.

Badr Milligan 19:00

All right, so kickmail. You know, you and I if they're smart, they'll keep you on forever. But you know, you're dealing with classic characters that that everyone knows. How do you keep someone like Optimus Prime looking classic but also you know inserting your own flair, your own style?

Mike Spicer 19:15

Uh so like the first part of uh the new Skybound Transformers, we went with like a G1, it's still G1, but uh it was a little bit more vibrant, um, I think uh in our own um in our own way. It was just a little bit different than classic G1. And I think um we had some uh flashback scenes that I tried to uh bring the old colors sort of back a little bit just for people to be like, oh yeah, that feels familiar. Um and then we had like uh Dan Mora stuff, yeah. It's like super clean and really nice looking, but then you gotta like I think you gotta kind of like up the vibrancy a little bit, maybe. Um and same thing with like uh we got uh Jason Howard coming on, and and the they look it looks like an animated TV show. It starts at 32, and it's really fun and interesting, and I think people are really gonna enjoy it. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, with with Prime, like yeah, you just kind of there's little variations here and there that I do. Um I'm trying to, I'm trying to work my I'm trying to work yellow eyes onto them, but they won't let me get away with it. It's all blue eyes, so you know, there's little things like that. Like same thing with Batman. Every time I work on a Batman book, I try to put them in like purple gloves. Yeah, the editor is always like, no, no purple gloves.

Badr Milligan 20:29

I like hearing that though, you know, because it you'll hear from like, you know, penclers that where they're they're you know morphing the character and you know, maybe updating the the costume to you know add their own flair in there, but to hear like you know, from a colorist standpoint, you know, the color of a glove might give it a different feel. The color of the eyes, sure, you know, I I think that's real fascinating. Um for I guess you know, just sticking to the theme of the next generation, for the next generation of colors that are walking around that you know want to do what you do, what's the most, what's the one mistake that you feel most beginning colorists make when they're first starting out?

Mike Spicer 21:04

Big mistake. Um I don't know, look, mistakes are good. Like, you know, um it took me a long time to learn a lot of things. I taught myself how to do it. I made tons of mistakes. Uh my my colors weren't great to begin with. I think the biggest mistake is just kind of like getting in your own head and and and quitting and stopping and not doing it enough and being like, oh, this isn't gonna work out. I think the worst thing you do is just like telling yourself, like, oh, I'm not gonna get there, or whatever. You know, you just hang in there and eventually like you keep at it and keep at it, and you learn, and you you you you talk to other colorists and other artists and show them every portfolio and you learn things from them, you absorb more stuff. But again, I think the biggest mistake is to quit, is to stop. Just keep keep powering through, man. Cause you'll hit you'll hit like a brick wall and you'll be like, oh, I'm terrible. But then like the week after you'll be like, oh, I think I just leveled up.

unknown 21:57

Yeah.

Mike Spicer 21:58

Like, what just happened? Where'd that come from? You know what I mean?

Badr Milligan 22:00

One foot after the other. Okay. Last question. Obviously, we're recording this uh live at your uh booth. You've got some incredible things here. If you could pick one thing that you feel represents, you know, what is the most Mike Spicer thing on this table that someone can buy the next time that they're at CollectiveCon and come to see you?

Mike Spicer 22:18

Um, geez, that's tough. Uh, probably this black and white cover right here, just because I love this freaking cover from Dan.

Badr Milligan 22:26

I also want to say I'm a proud owner of this said cover from Mike's table as well. It is amazing.

Mike Spicer 22:31

It's a black and white cover. I didn't do the cover. We did it, I did the interior with Dan. But um, I really love that uh sort of gritty Wolverine sort of story. I mean, I love the Batman stuff. I can't I can't complain about any of that. I love working on all Batman. I'm a huge Batman fan. But as far as like me personally, inside my own head, I'm like dark Wolverine samurai all day. I love it. Or Batman with purple gloves.

Badr Milligan 22:56

Yeah, awesome. Mike, this has been a pleasure, man. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Collective con. Next time you see Mike Spicer at a convention, make sure to stop by his table. I'm Bodder Milligan for the CollectiveCon. Take care.