Kasra Ghanbari 0:00

In this episode of the short box, you have a responsibility not just to get bodies and warm bodies at a show and not just to have the good looking people show up at the gallery to drink your cheap white wine and take the photos. You have a responsibility to bring people that are engaged with what is available at the show.

Intro Music 0:26

Ladies and gentlemen, short box podcast is recorded live from Jacksonville, Florida.

Badr Milligan 0:52

Yoo, Short Box Nation, hello again. Welcome back and thanks for press for press and play. And I genuinely mean that no I sound like I do read from a script, but I do mean it every time I say thanks for pressing play today. If you're brand new, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Badrr, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show, where we bridge the gap between the panels of your favorite comics with the people who put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them, or in today's case, with the people who put their blood, sweat, and tears into bringing together some talented artists and throwing amazing events to celebrate comic art and artists and comics in general. This is episode 502, and today we'll be talking with Kasra Ghanbari, who might be the most interesting man operating behind the scenes in comics right now. If the name doesn't ring a bell, that's okay, because I think Mystique is part of his brand in a good way. Khasra Gonbari, right? He's a writer, he is a researcher. He's got like over 40 scientific papers to his name in the field of cancer and Alzheimer's disease. He's a former biotech entrepreneur. Uh he's also the co-founder of the 44 Flood Artists Collective. He started two independent book publishers. He's he's created and published more than a dozen comics, graphic novels, and art books. He's worked with the likes of some serious legends like Ahayo Miyazaki, uh Mobius, Bill Sinkevich, Dave Sim. He's been an art rep for 20 plus years. He's he's represented the likes of Scott Raddock, Clive Barker, Ted McKeever, and Richard A. Kirk. He's curated gallery shows around the world in places like Berlin, New York, Chicago, and more. And the list of projects and things he's involved with goes on and on and on. But he's specifically on the show today to talk about his work with comic art fans, which is the largest original comic and narrative art collecting website in the world. They have over one million pieces of art listed on the website. Uh that it's the same company, Comic Art Fans, that owns and produces shows like Indie Comics Creator Con and Original Art Expo. And if you didn't know, uh IC3, Indie Creator Comic Con, is partnering with Jacksonville's own First Coast Comic Con this year on Saturday, July 11th, for a groundbreaking Comic Con. So we'll be talking to Kazra about what to expect from that. But before we get into that, how about we show some love, give some uh recognition to our amazing sponsors who help us keep the lights on, okay? Big shout outs to our presenting sponsor, coverprice.com. It's the ultimate comic book price guide and collection management tool for comic collectors. If you want to figure out what your collection is worth right now, let CoverPrice do all the hard work for you. And I got a special uh offer for you too. You can get cover price for one dollar for one month by using the special promo code in this episode show notes. I won't even give you the URL because why give you the URL? You can just click the link in the show notes and you can start using coverprice.com for one month for one dollar. So go ahead and do that. And we can't talk sponsors and not show some love to my local comic shop, right? The best comic shop here in Northeast Florida. I'm talking about Gotham City Limit comic shop. If you live in Jacks, you can go visit them today on Southside Boulevard. And if you don't live in Jax, that's fine. You can buy comics for them online at GothamCityLimit.com. Those are our sponsors. They're great. You you guys know this by now. Our sponsors, only the best sponsors in the world. And we also couldn't do this without our loyal supporters over on the short box Patreon, aka big shout out to the Patronis. You guys, I love you guys. You guys are you guys got a special place in my heart. Now, without further ado, let's bring on our guest of honor today. He's a a man of of many hats. He's he's got a lot of roles, he's done a lot of amazing things in this space for this medium that we all love. Let's give it up for Cosmo Gunbar, y'all. What up, Kaz, how you doing? I'm great.

Kasra Ghanbari 4:26

I'm here to completely ruin my uh the mystique. Let's do it. I got I got as much time as you need. I think we could do it in 10 minutes, though.

Badr Milligan 4:35

Ah, that's funny. That's funny. I mean, honestly, there's a lot about you online, but it's not like I got to do a little bit of digging. But it was a lot of fun research, man. You have led uh uh an interesting life. When you told me um um before we hit start that uh you were uh 50 years old, one, you don't look 50, brother, all right? That's that that's that good brown skin, all right. I love the way you lie. Thank you. I think that might be the first Rihanna reference we've had on the show in this 500-plus episode. That was awesome. That's not fair, yeah. It had to be you, but uh Kaz, I've been looking forward to this, man. Uh, and I I I want to use this opportunity to say how incredible original art expo was, man. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad you could make it. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for the invite. I had uh an amazing time. Uh, you know, I had a chance to record like a recap episode alongside uh uh West Coast Dave Vengers, which was you know only added to how great it was getting to meet him and sorry.

Kasra Ghanbari 5:30

By the way, my writer said that you can't mention his name more than once, so that's it. That's it, okay?

Badr Milligan 5:36

That's true. There's a hefty find attached to saying that he who shall not be named anymore. He's just texted, he just texted me.

Kasra Ghanbari 5:43

He like knows he knows that we're talking about him. He's asking like when I'll be at HeroesCon. That's incredible.

Badr Milligan 5:49

All right, I was this close to wearing a HeroesCon shirt, and I won't lie, I I kind of got in my head about it. I was like, it would it be disrespectful to wear another convention shirt in front of you.

Kasra Ghanbari 6:01

My favorite show. There we go. HeroesCon is my favorite show. Absolutely disrespectful, totally disrespectful, but it's my favorite show. Yeah, it's our it's calf, it's our entire team's favorite show. All six of us are gonna be there this coming weekend.

Badr Milligan 6:17

Yeah, Keso, what is uh because I think it's safe to say con season is here. I mean, uh MegaCon has happened, OOAX has happened, um, um Fan Expo, I think in Portland. I mean, there's uh quite a few that have already happened. Obviously, we got the the big ones coming up here soon, San Diego Comic-Con, New York Comic Con, and et cetera, et cetera. How busy as a fellow you know uh event organizer and and Comic Con organizer, how busy is right now for you? Like what's this week been like for you?

Kasra Ghanbari 6:46

You know, honestly, it's not that bad at all because you know, we really we kind of hand select which shows uh we go to and the events that we put on are they're very focused. I know they're like community events, uh, you know, indie, uh indie creator events, and OAX is uh is art only, and then we're pretty qualified to do it. It takes an unbelievable amount of work. But honestly, going to Heroes for us is a break. This is the closest thing to time off that I get is I get to go to Charlotte, which is an awesome city. Yeah, it is. A whole lot of art collectors are there and an unbelievable number of artists. All my friends are there, the calf team is there, all the Ma and Pa barbecue joints and places to eat. Great places to eat. There's that diner that past 12, you know, cats you down for for weapons. That place is awesome. Is it called Midnight Diner, right? I think it is. I think it's Midnight Diner.

Badr Milligan 7:39

That is a mandatory, like I uh and not just once. You gotta go like twice or three times. Like, yeah, that place is amazing.

Kasra Ghanbari 7:46

If you've never been to Midnight, you don't tell your mom that you went there, but you know the point. There's like a random, there's a random thing. Like there's a thing on the wall, like a like a like a I don't know, like a uh restaurant at the end of the universe, Hitchhiker's Guy of the Galaxy, like little number thing on the wall. Like right now, the improbability of what's about to happen is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love it. I love it. It's honestly so it's a break. Like we're gonna end up at San Diego Comic-Con, and that's a lot of work for everybody else. Yeah, but we're just strolling around saying hi to people, being glad that we're not at our you know, desk working 80 plus hours a week. So it's good right now.

Badr Milligan 8:24

Hell yeah. That hit me. Yeah, yeah. I feel you on that. Um, I I will I won't be able to attend HeroesCon this year because I'm I'm doing another conference here in Jack's. Uh, so I'm a little heartbroken by it because it feels like all the cool kids are gonna be there this year. But um, you know, there's plenty more conventions that I'm looking forward to.

Kasra Ghanbari 8:43

You're gonna miss Big Phil's big uh opening Friday night too at the gallery. There's a whole bunch of people coming in for that too. Yeah, it's gonna be fun.

Badr Milligan 8:50

I'm gonna play catch up. Uh, I'm gonna live vicariously through everyone on the show.

Kasra Ghanbari 8:53

I'm just trying to make you feel bad. I can keep going.

Badr Milligan 8:56

Can I say real quick, we spend some time on OAX? Can I, because I want to say how normally, like to me, MegaCon is normally uh the start, I think, the early start of the con season because it happens pretty early. But I gotta say, going to OAX, which happened, I think, before MegaCon, like a month before MegaCon, I had never been to a convention that early in the year. I think OAX was end of February this year. So it kind of set the precedent for the rest of the year in a big way. And what I when I what I've been telling everyone that has asked me about that is that it was unlike any other comic show because it introduced me, as someone that's been podcasting and in comics for the last, you know, since 2012. Sometimes I think I've seen it all, like I know all the different pockets, but going to OAX was such an eye-opening experience because it it re-introduced me and really kind of showed me the the full magnitude of this really interesting subsection in the comic fandom, which is, and I love the way you guys phrase it on the website, narrative art pieces, you know, art collecting. And getting to see not only like, you know, uh uh John Romita Jr. there, um, you know, I'm the list, I'm drawing a blink. I know there was a ton of great artists there. I'm Jimmy Palmiani, Amanda Connor. But also getting to witness the passion of art collectors was, you know, just the crowds and the dealers. I think it was the most fun I ever had, just like watching vendors and dealers like talk about the art pieces and their favorite comics. Like it was truly a unique experience, man.

Kasra Ghanbari 10:28

I appreciate you talking about it or at least talking about it first, because when people ask me to describe it, I don't normally know what to say. Yeah, it really is kind of an experiential thing, it is very different. It we were really frustrated years one and two, trying to explain what it is to people, and thank goodness, West Coast Dave, many people, ink pulp, uh so many people, uh uh Spidey Hits, uh people with sub-specialties and different audiences showed up and filmed it. The Comic Sten from here in Central Florida, did like long form, almost like real-time documentary style um episodic uh content from the show, like 20, 30 episodes. Go if you go to Comic Sten, you'll you'll see it all. And that helped us so much just to show people what it is rather than tell them uh what it was. So I love hearing that, especially, you know, because you know the art world is relatively, if not almost entirely new to you. And one of our mandates as a public benefit corp is quite literally to get people to realize that they can uh buy art and especially narrative art and especially comic art. It is literally one of our mandates. And this show is the brick and mortar uh sort of place for everyone to congregate and and learn about it. And we have the rest of the year through our channel and different outlets and all the things that we can talk about to get them to sort of not be intimidated by the idea of it. Yeah.

Badr Milligan 11:57

Yeah, and there's a lot of things, uh, you know, if we're looking at comicartfan.com, uh comic art fans as like the the the the top of the umbrella and the way you know it's kind of spiraled down. It's like OAX and then all the different like OAX IC3, and then uh I'm I'm sure you've got some other like pegs from that wheel, but I think what's interesting is that none of them feel similar to other things. And I think it's kind of representative of of cause your space that you operate. Like, I I truly feel that you are you're operating at like a really singular intersection of life in comics. Like you don't quite live or interact with the direct comic market space, like most of the guests I have on. Like, I think you truly kind of operate in this whole different category that's still within like comics, but like kind of off to the side. And then like your background and your previous roles are also different from any other guests I've had on. Like, you know, I mentioned in the intro that you said, you know, you're a CEO at a biotech company. You've, you know, raised millions uh for you know uh for for charity and and health care. Um you've published like peer-reviewed research on Alzheimer's and and cancer, and then on this whole other side, you write like occult comics like a monocyte, and you you edit like very esoteric art books and and you represent world-class artists and you organize all these great comic shows. I guess in your mind, where do you know like deep medical science and dark surrealist art and comics like intersect?

Kasra Ghanbari 13:27

Let me take six months of therapy and get back to you. I don't reflect much, which there's a superpower in that. Um Yeah, you're just living in the moment. Uh well, I try. I know we all fail at that. Um so like I don't really think of my life in in um in any sort of durational way, or and I don't I guess let me ask that maybe let me simplify that because that that did feel like a pretty uh broad question.

Badr Milligan 13:53

What what was the catalyst to jump from one field to another? Like was there a goal you had in mind moving away from you know uh working in in healthcare and you know uh biotech to working in in the comic industry? Like these two things don't match, especially if we're talking like monetarily wise, you know what I'm saying? Like you damn sure didn't jump to comics for for the money. So I guess what was what was the catalyst?

Kasra Ghanbari 14:20

Lifelong love of comics since I was like three years old on the on sitting on the floor of State College, Pennsylvania comic book shops with my older brother reading back issues, and that just was basically just I probably we got immunized for like 20 years just from all the crap that was on those comics is just dust and pollen and whatever. It you know, we were we're healthier now, these these little Gen X kids. Sorry, you youngins. Um so that never left, and and um just a deep, deep, deep respect for comics uh as some sort of like eternal uh way for us to communicate, words and pictures, and it it ain't any more complicated than that. It's not just words, it's not just pictures. So, you as the reader, as sort of the third party to that, or potentially the third party to that, but um, other than trying to buy time to answer your question, I'm gonna go upstream a little bit and maybe even keep deflecting. My parents were immigrants, they came in 1969. Um, and my father is uh uh a scientist, a biochemist by training, um, uh PhD. He worked in academia and then in industry and then started his own companies, uh, and he's very accomplished uh in multiple fields. And my mom uh has her MFA in ceramics. Wow, and she's um uh a poet, uh a pretty damn good singer, even before any uh any like drinking, and um uh a staunch feminist and lecturer, and um and I was a fuck up. So I got uh in and out of school and sort of just wanted to work and apply and and be part of teams and figure things out, hard issues. Uh probably five or ten years before most people do. I was just kind of wired that way. So I fell into biotech and I did so well that I just kept getting offered opportunities. And then I started going insane because I was actually probably supposed to be in the creative fields. All of my own dreams were to be like a um a writer-director, like a filmmaker or a documentary filmmaker or an ethnomusicologist. Those were always what my dreams were. So the reason, for example, that I ended up nearly fully leaving uh the biotech, biopharma uh world and going back to the arts was pure and utter devastating fatigue. And a promise that I made myself when I was younger that I would do this and try to do this full-time uh at some point. But all along the last 25 years, like when you when you read off some stuff there, while I was doing the biotech work, I was still writing books and publishing them and representing artists. Uh and I was doing that pro bono because I figure, hey, I've got this business experience, strategic experience. I kind of know how markets work. I can work with artists, I get along with them. It's like a giving back sort of thing. So that's how I ended up um doing it. That and the opportunity um to join comic art fans a little over three years ago, and and uh the conversations that I had with uh Bill Cox, one of the founders of Comic Art Fans, and what I knew that we could do and what I felt like I could like manifest was so intoxicating that I was like it was easy. It was easy to do.

Badr Milligan 17:52

You may and I I guess we talk a little more about comic art fans because uh how long has it been around? It's been around at least 23, 23 years. And that's what I'm getting at is you know, no one knows everything, but once again, yeah, as someone that's been in this space for so long, I was I was pleasantly surprised that there was still another corner of comics that like was relatively new because prior to OAX, I think I might have seen comic art fans. I might have even been on the site looking for like reference materials at some point, but I think this year was my first time consciously like really taking in what they were putting down. You know, like this is a site that's got millions of art pieces. This is a place where uh, you know, people who have original comic art, original art period can go on there, showcase their collections and uh, you know, trade, sell you guys, uh, you know, comic art fans does a virtual conference, which I think is is awesome that you know uh they're leaning into the digital aspect, technology, and things like that. How did you feel finding like this tribe at comic art fans? Like what what words come to mind when when you when you were brought on board and you really kind of got to understand the scope and you know, understand the the the users and things like that? Like I guess to me, comic art collectors and comic original comic art fans, there is something different about them, and I've been having a hard time putting that into words. Could you help?

Kasra Ghanbari 19:11

When Bill and his wife Maureen and their friend Chris Haggard started comic art fans, I was one of the first people that signed up uh to have a to have to post my art there in in my own gallery. And uh I think I was I don't know how many, there's over a hundred thousand accounts now, well over. I was like 546, something like that. Yeah, so I'm an old timer and I met Bill and Maureen back then, and Bill and I uh became friends and have known each other throughout, and I always had ideas for the site. But I can tell you that um there uh they they they made the site because there was there was a lot of art out there and there was uh there was a building community of original art collectors, but they had really no way to talk to one another. There was an old Yahoo message board that we used to all be on and a few other uh strange little corners of the uh the internet, and uh you'd run into someone maybe standing in front of the same art dealer's table at a show just by chance, right? And Bill was a big commission collector back then. He loved to commission artists to do pieces of shows, and he realized it's almost an innocent thought, in a way, like there are a lot of other people commissioning art, and I don't get to see it. And I want to, yeah, you know, it's like you know, put on you know, the voice of a two-year-old there almost, right? Show me your cool shit. And that's not condescending, that it's pure like intent, that's like pure like problem solution. Who's gonna do it? I'll do it. So they built the site, they had a uh a web design and hosting company, and so they could build websites and they built it. And you know, field of dreams, right? And it was slow going at first, but people all over the world ended up uh joining in. And you know, what effect did it have on me? I think like essentially was part of your question. I think like in and um I'm probably um not answering exactly what you uh asked, but uh comic art fans has been life-changing totally because it is such a fairly specific, cool, adjacent to what we love, uh reinforcing, joy-creating, unique, amazing thing to do, collect comic and other visual or storytelling art. And what people feel like when when they're at OAX and they're surrounded by a thousand people that do the same thing, there is a flow there that is almost spiritual. I can't describe it. After the first year, I had goosebumps. I I was Freaked out by it. It was everyone was the best version of themselves. Because I'm a sensitive boy and I I definitely can I can feel these things. And uh it was it was tremendous. So it's can it still comes down to community. How do you convene? How do you communicate with one another? Is there like a regulator of all of that? Can some of that regulation um can it help keep it healthier? Comic art fans really did that like certainly decades before anybody else. And by the time that I came in, you know, three, three and a half years ago, you know, the world had just come out of like some really rocky stuff. Uh, you know, collectibles were on fire and uh and then depreciating and uh all the chicken little stuff that's normal in our industry was I was out in spades 30 years running for chicken little, but let's we can talk about that. Um and uh there was some sort of modernizing and reinvigorating and new ideas and stuff, and uh, you know, six months or so of talking with Bill, you know, six, eight-hour days and laying out all the possibilities and what could be done, and it was pretty clear that uh what we could do and that I should join and and and all of that. But comic art fans has I guess the simplest way I can put it is most of the most of my friends that I've made as an adult and most of the people that I still talk to on a weekly basis, I met through Comic Art fans.

Badr Milligan 23:34

That's awesome.

Kasra Ghanbari 23:35

Well, it's the best like uh monogamous dating site of all time.

Badr Milligan 23:41

That is well said. And I promise we'll get back to talking some more about original art. I got a I got a question for you later, but I I do want to emphasize that something that I I don't think dawned on me while I was there was until like the drive home was that how unique, and I'm like multi-layered, like how kind of double entendre, how unique OAX was in terms of like the scope. Hey, we're here to present, you know, uh you can buy original comic art, we're here to celebrate uh artists and and things like that. But then also I got me thinking how no two vendor was alike because they literally can't have the two same, like the same things. Every vendor had a different flavor, a different collection. You know, like it's original art, it's in the name. So it's like if this guy's got this original page, the other guy doesn't. So, like, there's a I don't know, there's a certain energy, I guess, to every single vendor that I that I went to that I didn't really appreciate till much after. Um, so yeah, and it lines up with a lot of the same feelings.

Kasra Ghanbari 24:36

Can I give you one example just for myself too? That the uh the second year I created the card art expo, CAX is part of OAX, and there was this whole sub-world of of people that collected not just the cards, but the original art created for the cards. And I'm a guy who loves uh illustration and uh painted art. Uh I have a I have a bias towards that my whole life. I love, don't worry, black and white paneled art forever, right? But that's my thing. That's like my court jam. And a lot of that art uh that's created for the cards is like single and two-character painted art. Yeah, so there's this whole world for 30 years that I didn't really know about. I would buy cards from time to time, but I didn't know there was a community. I didn't think that there was art being created for I didn't know if it was recycled. And now all of those guys are in there. Yep. And then they're all there. Now I'm looking at all their stuff with total envy, which is what you want to feel is collecting. At the end of the day, you're like chasing jealousy and envy without all the downsides of it. That's a that's a good day as a collector. And then with them, we get to create all these events surrounding OAX. So there's stuff going on in the penthouses, there's live streams, there's breaks, there's Marvel masterpiece artists, there's live drawing, there's sketch cards, there's this entire thing that gets incorporated in OAX. And then we did that for Illustration Art Expo, IAX, and now we're doing that with animation art expo, A2X, but now we're gonna do it for Game Art Expo, GAX is part of OAX. So we're bringing them all together and it's enriching OAX, and you can't describe it. At some point, you're not gonna be able to describe it, except what I like to tell people if you go to shows, drop one, come to ours.

Badr Milligan 26:25

Bars right there. I like that. Can I also can I add Julie Bell, you know, world-renowned uh painter painter Julie Bell and responsible for some of the greatest Marvel art card art in the world was at OAX. And she had a line the whole weekend, and I was like, this is so cool to see like her as a rock star right now. Like she's a rock star goddess here right now. Um, yeah, it's so yeah, great time. I this is not this is not meant to be a commercial for OAX, but I will go on and say uh I co-sign everything you're saying about it. Um Kaza, I want to move into uh another uh item that uh something else from your career that piqued my interest. Early in your in your comic career, you were the co-editor and publisher of an anthology called Drawing the Line. And then there was a follow-up called Drawing the Line Again. It is a uh Schuster, for anyone that might not be familiar, I wasn't familiar prior to this, all good. It is a Schuster Award nominated anthology, I think from 2004 and six, uh that was uh anthology for a cancer charity. It featured some uh some of the greatest names in fucking uh narrative illustration, you know, illustration comics of all time. Ahayo Miyazaki, Mobius, Clive Barker, the likes of them all contributed to this anthology. Uh, given your immense background in medical research, how did it feel for you personally to see the comic book medium rally together to give back to a worthwhile cause like this?

Kasra Ghanbari 27:53

It was a turning point of my life. That was the first time that I turned my back from the biotech work. That was the first wave of exhaustion. And I and I took a temporary leave and I just did like consulting and it was on some boards and things like that. And I got I got almost two years of back pay because we raised some funding and I had gone without pay for two years. So imagine working 90 plus hours a week without pay for two years. That was that was rough. So what I decided to do with that money is I decided to blow it on MODOC commissions and start a small press company. Yeah.

Badr Milligan 28:30

Who did you get some of these? Who did you get that commissioned this? Um, these Modoc pieces, I gotta know.

Kasra Ghanbari 28:34

I'll show you in Jacksonville. Oh, deal. And you might want to film it. Okay, deal.

Badr Milligan 28:38

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

Kasra Ghanbari 28:39

I got more than 500 of them. God damn. And so, you know, 20 years passed, so you're like, how'd you get that guy? How'd you get that guy, right? Well, well, back then it was like a hundred bucks for that guy, sure. So, you know, Modoc commissions in a small press company, and and I I went to a show in Toronto because I started to go to a bunch of comp book shows again, and I was uh like uh putting a docket together of like books that I wanted to publish. And uh I met Sully Fata. Um, he's from Toronto. He's uh I would say he was a magician uh by trade, and uh, you know, he was putting the drawing um uh drawing the line anthology together and and wanted to do the drawing the line again book, and we decided to work together uh to do it. So it was the first book that I put together, the first book that I published for my my small little publishing company. And um, I got to bring in uh a lot of the artists and um and oversee it with Suley, and we raised quite a lot of money for uh the Princess Margaret Foundation, uh Hospital in the Sick Kids uh Hospital up in Toronto. It was incredibly fulfilling and it set me on uh like a parallel and then divergent path for the rest of my life.

Badr Milligan 29:58

Yeah, that's beautiful. I can't take credit for this, but I I read a review or something online that that was talking about drawing the line and it described it as graphic medicine, which which I think is a really interesting term, right? Like it kind of like encompasses like the power of how sequential art can heal and like process you know trauma much differently than text. I think you know you said earlier about the beauty of comics is is as simple as it's art and you know words together. And I've always said that yeah, it's the best medium out there. Like, who doesn't want like badass art to go along with like some of the best writing you've ever seen? Um, I gotta say, I am now on the hunt for this drawing the line.

Kasra Ghanbari 30:39

That was uh hearing you talking about I still have a few copies, I'll bring them both up to Jacksonville.

Badr Milligan 30:44

Wait for us to meet at ICO.

Kasra Ghanbari 30:46

I don't think you can find that.

Badr Milligan 30:47

I'm bringing I'm gonna take a quick detour. You had it speaking about you, you bring up Jackson. Obviously, I'm gonna uh see you next month, but uh did you have a chance to go to DCAS this past weekend? Oh yeah, it was oh man, let's talk about that real quick.

Kasra Ghanbari 30:59

I got stacks, I brought back stacks of stuff too. Oh, yeah.

Badr Milligan 31:03

Damn, big shout outs to my DCAS, Duval Comic and Zine Fest team, uh Tony ALP, James Green. Uh the the list goes. I know I'm missing some people, and I'm so sorry. Man, that's that's awesome that you had a chance to to to. I guess what what were some of your biggest what what impression did it leave on you?

Kasra Ghanbari 31:18

Well, I keep hearing all this stuff about Jacksonville being different. Hmm. What's that? Duval, what's what's that, what's that, what's that call, you guys? Wait, wait, do I got it on here? Yeah, I got it.

Badr Milligan 31:30

You got it recorded.

Kasra Ghanbari 31:33

Yeah. There you go. I mean, when James Green emails me and goes, hey, we are different, look this up on Google. One more time. There you go. It's nice tone on that. Good job. Um, there's so much creativity. And what I love about shows like that is if you don't slow down, if you don't shed the way that you go to other shows, if you don't, uh I don't even I don't know how to describe this. I'll I'll just let's just be therapeutic about this. Like if you don't shed your insecurities, if you don't like uh rip away your expectations, if you don't do any of that, um, it's not for you. And while I was there, I slowed down, I looked at every table, I talked to people first. You know, I mean instead of looking at the you know, it's like one of those like the world is upside down sort of things. And there were like nine or ten artists that just blew me away with just if it was skill, if it was passion, if it was emotive, if it was, you know, a lot of them had the whole thing, and a lot of them already applied to uh IC3 Jacksonville. I've already accepted their application. So I, you know, I got to see them in person too. It was just it was awesome, but in a way, it was I I had to step out like every 20 minutes because it was pretty, it was actually overwhelming if you like really take it in.

Badr Milligan 32:59

Yeah, I I I will never forget the the first DCAS or the the second one. I truly was like a you know, and I don't say this with you know, I don't mean to sound hyperbolic, but it really was a magical kind of experience. So it's awesome to hear. Um, you know, someone also had a first-time experience and experienced that as well. Uh, since you brought up IC3, uh, you know, I mentioned that it's owned by comicartfans.com. Uh you you brought actually brought this up that you guys are a public benefit corporation. I actually had to look that up because I wasn't sure what the difference between that and a nonprofit is. The the big difference being that uh you guys have a uh uh a social responsibility. You mentioned like the mandate of like, you know, uh showing people the the the the side of comics and you know celebrating uh original art. I guess can you explain like why that distinction matters? Like how does IC3 actively fight to make because I think I read somewhere that like what part of the IC3 mission is to like, hey, what we're trying to make this affordable, sustainable, and empower independent comic book creators. I guess could you speak a little bit more about that mission?

Kasra Ghanbari 34:02

Yeah, so the public benefit corp thing is it's uh it's a mission statement. It it is a social good statement that we're that we're judged by, and and it has a a very important educational uh component. It's also for us building like fundamental tools and platforms that enable period. Who do they enable? For us, mostly artists and collectors, not just artists, not just collectors. And then, you know, uh other other other people that participate, art reps, uh dealers, auction houses by by extension. And then fundamentally our goal with as a public benefit corp is to promote uh the the the narrative arts, the visual and storytelling arts, and to make individual human beings understand that they can own art. That is a very pivotal moment in it's a liberating thought. Okay. So that's sort of the prism by which or the framework by which we conduct ourselves. Um when it comes to IC3, that's incredibly well aligned with the the public benefit um corp uh uh mission statement. Um indie creators need opportunities, they need platforms. My original idea like why do I want to build uh uh build out indie cons is that we were uniquely poised or positioned to help indie creators by actively bringing art collectors to indie comics. So that's the the the central premise or conceit of the whole thing, right? Or that's a cornerstone of it because you can sell a hundred comic books in a year, and that's and you hustle and it's freaking awesome that you do. And you know, maybe you make $500 because there is a financial component to this. But what the art in the indie world overwhelmingly really isn't addressed or sold, or it isn't like uh like valued or certainly um appropriately valued. So the idea was we have this base of collectors, we have this uh network, we have OAX, we have all these, we have YouTube channels, we have newsletters, all of it. Bring it to bear on the indie scene. And then as far as the indie show itself, construct it so that it draws you know at least like 40-50 percent from like a three-hour driving radius, so it remains local. And then place them, build out it, build it out nationally. Uh the the model for it is like uh like an indie music uh tour sort of thing, right? So uh have it in different places, eventually going west throughout the country, but starting east, eastern seaboard, all up and down, go into the country a little bit, and have a brand, a model, and a delivery that you're comfortable with, that you understand that's reliable, that's there for you. And if you're able to do that uh and keep it inexpensive and tie it into a lot of what comic art fans can do, naturally it creates a lot of opportunities depending on the individual ambition of the indie creator. Some of them want to work for Marvel, some of them would like the if you ask them if they did, it'd be insulting. There's every kind of individual and creator and ambition, no judgment on any of it. But if you want to go show your wares and your new works and interact with people and get deeper into a local, a regional, and even a national indie community, that's what we want to try to do at IC3. And if I can say just one more thing in this long-winded answer, is it's it's I wanted to build out three categories of shows. So the there's our in-person homegrown shows. Um, Matt Sardo is a showrunner of the the New Haven show that we've just moved to Providence. That'll be September 26th this year. I'm creating the Jacksonville show. There's homegrown shows like that. The the Jacksonville show is our first example of a co-promoted show, which means I find like a great local show that's run by great people. Uh and we we we have it out with one another and see how aligned we are, and we build a show out together. So this will be the first time doing that. And in Jacksonville, we're gonna end up with 40,000 square feet or more than 200 vendors, and we're gonna have the Jimmy Palmiotis and Amanda Connors uh and the Pat Brodericks and the the Greg um Greg Land, yeah. Greg Land. But we're gonna have 100 plus indie creators and the Jim Ruggs and Amati Keens. We're gonna have the incredible people there, right? And then the third category, other than these co-promoted ones, that we're very proud of is our Comic Art Live Virtual Art Con, which takes a little bit of explaining, but we hold it on Comic Art fans in May, May and November each year, and it's free to attend and almost zero to exhibit. And we get incredible traffic and numbers for that. And so we built out a Hall I for IC3, and now we have two virtual shows that indie creators can add to their annual docket that doesn't cost them a penny to travel. Sure. They don't have to worry about their pillows and bed bugs, they don't have to worry about where they're eating, nothing. It's from home and it gets them in front of the 30,000 unique attendees that come to that show over the weekend.

Badr Milligan 39:29

That's awesome. Yeah. I want to make a comment on on what you said about uh IC3 Jacksonville show being the first uh example of you guys uh uh collaborating with a you know an existing um comic show, in this case First Coast Comic Con. Big shout-outs to them. Uh I think it that speaks to me personally, not only because you know it's here in my hometown and it's like, oh, this is great. They're bringing indie comic creators like like you know, Jim Rugg is coming back down, Moddy can uh what is it, Marty Keen, right? Marty Keen. I never thought I'd see his name on a flyer that also said Jacksonville or Matthew Allison too. You know, so for me, I'm like excited for the different talent that's coming in. As someone that runs a local community for podcasters here in Florida, Jax Podcasters United. Um, I think it speaks to me because it it's it reflects an ethos that we have here too, which is collaboration over competition. Like we're all about bringing people together, sharing the resources, and just celebrating. I think there is something special about knowing that the person that you're here with is also from the region. You know, there's like a certain connection that that you have that you probably couldn't have make in a you know in a larger uh uh comic show. And what you said about being at DCAS and just slowing down and getting a chance to like really meet the people there and the artists, I think uh I think that's a benefit of these indie shows. There's something about being able to build a, you know, slowing down, being able to really prioritize connection and you know, sharing like a you know, the the this thing that you love with someone else that's there.

Kasra Ghanbari 41:03

And you know, it's the show, but the the general model uh is the day before the show, we do a drink and draw. Oh, that's right. And everyone's invited, right? So uh it'll be uh you know, we've got the we've got the news out, but you know, a lot of the artists, most of the uh most of the artists will be there drawing, and you know, I'm not gonna speak for them, but a lot of them just they they give the art away to people, or whoever likes something can kind of grab it sort of thing. And then there's the show the next day, and then after the show, we have an after-party get together where everybody is invited. So it's kind of like a a 48-hour uh community event with stuff away from the show that has absolutely freaking nothing to do with commerce. That that just feels right and healthy to me. I agree. I don't want to see Jim Rugg come off the airplane, rush the show and go, hey Jim, and not be able to talk to him. You know, I get to see Jim the night before and have dinner and uh maybe a drink with him and draw some stuff and laugh, and he's talking to like 15 people that are getting you know mentorship from him or asking him, you know what I'm talking about, right? And that's our model for every IC3 show. Drink and draw, show, after party, congregate at the same hotel. Whatever happens there, I don't want to know about.

Badr Milligan 42:24

I just don't want to see it in the news. Yeah. Florida Man at uh original art expo, you know, whatever, whatever. Fill in the rest. Okay. Uh Kaz, I want to I want to jump into uh um I want to jump into a different segment here. I want to take a break from asking you questions and let someone else ask the questions. We're getting into uh my favorite part of the show called the short box friends and family segment. It is the part of the show where I shut up for a bit, let someone else ask the questions. Uh, but I I did some legwork, right? I I reached out to a couple of people that I had a feeling that uh that one, you either you know them or you've worked with them in some regard. And I was like, let me see if I could get some people to chime in here. Wow. So um surprising, uh you might this might have been one of the more easier uh asks out there. I I put out a wide net and I got back some responses. So I got three voicemails to play for you. And uh I'll leave them as a surprise and uh we'll we'll go from there. So let's play our I'll play you my first voicemail for you. Okay, here we go. Oh, this is a good one. Here we go.

Chris Ryall 43:26

Hey, this is Chris Ryle, uh writer, editor, publisher, etc. Um, at the time I met Kazra in 2011, I was the editor-in-chief and chief creative officer at IW Publishing. Um, and what I learned then and in all the years since is that Kazra just has a very smart, discerning eye for talent. Um so he helped artist Menton Matthews on that book. And then and with what he's done since with comic art fans and launching the Jack Kirby Awards, he's certainly proven that not only does he No talent, respects the industry and its history, um, but he's also been great in helping promote those talents, promote different books, and just in general, I think make uh the comic industry better for all of his efforts. So I don't have any questions for him today, just uh just general praise. So, Kazrah, here's to you.

Badr Milligan 44:18

Oh yeah. Vic Sazuck Israel. He was that was the fastest I ever got a voicemail, which I think settled.

Kasra Ghanbari 44:24

So cool. Thank you.

Badr Milligan 44:25

Yeah, thank you.

Kasra Ghanbari 44:26

I saw your interview with him too.

Badr Milligan 44:27

That was a great one. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Um what do you okay? What do you remember about your time working with Chris at at IDW? I think I mentioned it in the the intro. Uh uh you for IDW, you put out a four-issue occult action adventure comic book series alongside uh the artist M3 called Monosight. What do you remember from your time working with Chris at IDW?

Kasra Ghanbari 44:48

Well, I always like Chris, and um I remember um yo, I always like to answer these questions in unexpected ways, right? I remember I knew Chris was a huge Bob Leighton fan, and Bob was a good friend of mine. So I called Bob. I'm like, Bob, we're nervous as shit over here. We're about to pitch this book to IDW, right to Chris Rao. We got an opportunity here. And so I called Bob and I had Bob give me the greatest pull quotes of all freaking time. Like Bob didn't even look at the PDF I sent to him. He basically said, if you're an editor-in-chief that has any guts at all, you'd be a fucking fool not to green light this book. That was like basically the quote. And then I called Ashley Wood, who Chris had worked with for since the beginning, right? And Ash was a friend of mine too. And Ash said, Whatever you fucking want, I'm gonna make sure this gets through. If I have to call Ryle, I'll go ahead and do it and I'll do your incentive cover for issue one. Wow. And we sent that to Ryle. And what was he supposed to say, right? Yeah, it was the weirdest book of all time, and I made it so that man didn't have a choice. I love Chris. Yeah, that's great. How many people work 25 years in the comic book industry and it's hard pressed for anyone to say anything negative about it? That doesn't happen. Yeah, that doesn't happen. Chris and I uh talk have been talking a lot more the the last six, eight months. I I'd love to work with him again. I think he's the best. I'd like to figure out a way for him to work uh and and help out with some of the stuff that we do uh at CAF and Extended. So um, but he asked shitty questions.

Badr Milligan 46:31

Kaz, do you do you uh do you miss writing or being on the creative side of comics? You're now like, you know, this organizer, this uh this event guy, you're putting, you know, uh relationships that putting people together. Do you ever miss like doing, you know, just writing or the creative side of comics?

Kasra Ghanbari 46:45

I do, but it's funny, like uh like like creating OAX, people don't realize that it's thousands of decisions, it's thousands of intentions. And I write almost every word that goes out for IC3, for OAX, for all this stuff, or certainly like wholesale amend it. And when I'm doing that, I'm forming all my thoughts and taking my thoughts and forming them into words and trying to really like have them like self-narrated in your own head about what we're trying to do. So there's something there. There's something there, but it's not, it's not like you know, writing an occult action adventure, uh, creator owned uh book. And I would like to do that one day, but I figured this is just another phase. I won't do this forever. And uh maybe I still even have time to like make a little fun film or something, even if 18 people see it. That's fine with me.

Badr Milligan 47:37

Man, uh I hearing you say talk about writing website and event copy speaks to my soul. When I tell you, um, you know, like I said, with the Jax Podcasters United Group, I'm always throwing events, so I'm always working on some sort of event page or a press release. And you're right, I you know, it's not comparable at all to making and writing and drawing comics, but I think, yeah, it can be very tiring. You're right. There's so many decisions. And if you're someone, uh I'm assuming same here too, where you're an overthinker like myself and you're looking at every single word, it can be maddening and draining.

Kasra Ghanbari 48:13

Thank you for saying draining too. People don't realize I'm like, it took me two days to write this press release. I've written 32. I'm gonna send them to you in one PDF. I'm not giving you any of my other books until you I've written 32 official press releases for calf since I officially was announced as CEO October 2003. And it is literally written as narrative. Yeah, it is as an artist. It's written as a story, it is a gigantic freaking story, though.

Badr Milligan 48:40

I agree, I agree. Wow, I can't believe I found someone to nerd out about and commiserate about press release. Those are great. All right, that was Chris Ryle. Big shout-outs to him. Uh, he said that you know he was a former publisher, uh C CO of uh IDW. He is now the co-founder of Scissor G uh Scissorgy Publishing. So if you want to see what uh find out what he's been doing.

Kasra Ghanbari 49:00

And editor, I think editor at large at uh Abrams Comic Arts as well. And of course, he's published uh you covered the books beautifully there, the calendar and uh all the other stuff. Yeah.

Badr Milligan 49:10

Okay, uh I got another voicemail for you. So here we go.

Michael Traylor 49:13

Hi, this is Michael Trailer, long time listener, first time caller. I have a question for Kevin. Um, with Heroes taking place this weekend, and we're all excited about it, and we're in the final planning stages of First Coast in IC3 in Jacksonville, July 11th. I'm curious, what was your first con experience? And I know you've had attended many since then. What positive con experience elements have you has uh resonated with you over the years to point that you try to implement them into your own shows? Thank you.

Badr Milligan 49:45

That was Michael Trailer, one of the owners of First Coast Comic Con uh, you know, happening here in Jacksonville, Florida. So he wanted to know what my first show was to begin with. What was the your first Comic Con show, your or first a comic show? And then uh what elements of a comic show make or break it for you, you know, like what what what elements does a comic uh show need to have to be, you know, considered, you know, a good one to you?

Kasra Ghanbari 50:11

Yeah. Honest, man, I don't know what my first show was. Like officially as an adult deciding to go, it might have been Wizard World Chicago, like back in the early 2000s. Uh, and believe it or not, it wasn't that much later that I went to San Diego Comic-Con in 2003. So um when I was younger, I might have stepped into one uh like local shows or gym show or or or something, but it wasn't until uh 2002 or so where I started just like going to like 15 a year for like five years straight to catch up for lost time. Yeah. Um what what makes what are the things about the shows that uh that I take away as as good or I'm an intangibles guy. Um I think most of the world is obsessed with tangibles, and and thank you for addressing tangibles. God bless you. I'm gonna address intangibles. That's how it was you're going this way, I'm going this way. And not just because I'm a a dick or like a counterwater. It's just the way I'm wired. Yeah. And uh so I'm a huge intangibles guy. Uh, when we've constructed our own shows, is there free parking? How long of a walk is it? Is the floor carpeted? When we walked into the space when we were looking for space for OAX, and you've been there, there was a large, you know, main show floor. When we walked through it to go to the little small in-between rooms that we just use now as like side special galleries, that was what the original OAX was going to be. And I walked Bill back into the main room because when I walked through it, I felt it. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I'm on the spectrum. I have no idea. I'm very sensitive to light, I'm very sensitive to sound. And I had rarely ever been in a room where it felt great and I didn't have to struggle. Like my voice didn't go out like six inches from my face and die off a cliff, commit suicide. And I knew that the carpeting was felt good on my feet, the sound was uh amazing, and I'm like, we have to have the show here, and that meant more, like disproportionately more to me than any freaking other human being. And I I will say to this day, I don't care how stupid it sounds to other human beings, but a huge part of the experience at OAX is because after hours there, feeling what you're doing, hyperventilating, being on overdrive, your metabolism, like going back to when you were 18, your your step count, I don't care all you're spending way too much, nervous about your spouse, anything, you're feeling better than any other show that you've ever been to before. And it's because the sound there, especially, and also the the the carpeting changes everything. Wow. And I've started having people tell me afterwards, you know what I noticed? I could talk to people and I wasn't exhausted at the end of the show. Yes.

Badr Milligan 53:22

And here I thought the whole time it was my good shoe choice that weekend. And it turns out to be that soft ass carpet that uh, yes, it was quite nice on my feet now that you bring it up.

Kasra Ghanbari 53:34

There's so many ways to answer that question, like the artists, the artists, like uh who they bring in, like uh how how fresh it feels year in and year out.

Badr Milligan 53:43

What's an immediate, I guess, turnoff for you when it comes to a comic show? Because I loved hearing what you said earlier. I mean, you know, you're thinking definitely like I think you're thinking really, I don't know, it's like super detailed, but also, yeah, I've never heard anyone mention the, you know, the taking into account the acoustics of a space, the um uh, you know, the the audio sensory, I guess, experience. That's that's really interesting. But you mentioned like free parking, which definitely was like, yes. The the walkability, it's like, yes. I didn't even like really prioritize that. I guess what's an immediate, I guess, turnoff for you? Or or what is something that you absolutely try to avoid um uh bringing into your uh uh shows?

Kasra Ghanbari 54:21

Again, I'm sorry, a lot of this is feeling instinctual. When I can see past the facade to the intentions of the people who put the show together and it's financial and it's corporate, and it's like, how can they funnel me into here and there and they didn't give a fuck about this or this or this? Fuck you. Immediate fuck you. Now it doesn't turn me away from the show because I don't necessarily blame everybody there. I don't impose this on people. I don't think that my truth is the truth, but when I feel something, I hold it as something that I trust within me, that from which I operate. That's the best way I can explain it. And that's fundamentally what turns me off. And when when shows or even when when galleries, when um publishers creating creator own works, when any of those entities take on a book or put on a show and invite artists and guests, or have a gallery opening with an artist who works for six months and pays out of their pocket to ship everything there. And it's this moment in their life, and their families are those are really related situations. When any of those things happen, you have a responsibility not just to get bodies and warm bodies at a show and not just to have the good-looking people show up at the gallery to drink your cheap white wine and take the photos. You have a responsibility to bring people that are engaged with what is available at the show. What they do thereafter is up to them. But if you're not being, if you're not bringing people that are actually excited and bringing that excitement with them, fuck you again. I just go right to the fuck you because that's your responsibility that you took on. If you don't recognize that, I feel that right away and it pisses me off.

Badr Milligan 56:14

We're gonna be in for a damn good time at this IC3 First Coast Comic-Con. I I I fuck with this. Yeah, I total respect there. It like I said, you're coming at it from the the experience versus like you know that the monetary commer uh uh commerce side of it. And I think when you prioritize experience, I think the the wrest will follow suit. You know what I'm saying?

Kasra Ghanbari 56:37

Yes, yeah, thank you. You said it way better than me. Exactly right. It's experience, and then I'm not judged by the eight-hour one uh day indie show at table number 162 and how much they brought in versus the expectations and baggage, maybe even that they brought with them. Sure. I'm judged by the in the entire thing. And if they're left feeling confusion, because normally they would have just been like, you know, how was my income? Did I at least cover my expenses, whatever? If I'm left with the person being confused because so much of it was awesome, and they learned a lot and they met all these people, and man, that time away from the show there, or meeting that one person or this experience or this book I picked up, but this person I might collaborate with, it's the entire thing. When I tell people why, when you come to OAX, I want you to be there for 15, 20, 25 reasons, half of which you didn't even know about. I don't want you to go to a show because there's four artists you have to see.

Badr Milligan 57:42

Yeah.

Kasra Ghanbari 57:43

And they have really good churros. Okay. Well, that's a reason. That is a cool that's a and and you're you'll be satisfied and and and great. I want people to be. This is where you sound pretentious. I want it to be a lot more than whatever it is that you're bringing with you.

Badr Milligan 58:01

Man, uh, I feel that, but I'm also hungry for some churros right now. And if there is no churros, I wish I didn't know.

Kasra Ghanbari 58:08

I'm on zero carbs, brother. I can't eat churros, I can't eat tacos, I can't eat all the good things.

Badr Milligan 58:14

Okay, look, that was Michael, a trailer. Well, once again, one of the owners of First Coast Comic Con. Big shout outs to him. Uh, Kaz, I got one more voicemail for you, and I can't wait to press play on this. So here we go.

Intro Music 58:27

Hey, Casra, it's your old pal Eli here. I'm just wondering, you're this like pillar, this monolith in the art collecting world. What was the piece of art that you first got, or maybe even the first original page that you saw that made you be like, I I've gotta own this, or I've gotta like start my collection ASAP. Um, we had talked about Sam Keith before. Is it Sam Keith? Stuff from Marvel Comics presents, or is there something off the wall? And uh, what are you listening to today? All right, y'all. Have a great rest of your day later on.

Badr Milligan 59:08

Oh yeah. That was Eli Schwab. All right, writer, artist, publisher, podcaster over at Cosmic Lion Productions, one of the best uh independent comic book labels out there. Eli is doing great things.

Kasra Ghanbari 59:21

Man, Eli. The first comic art, okay. I a lot of people have a moment that's it's a it's an uh uh epiphany. Oh shit, you can buy the art for this stuff? And it was like, especially back, you know, the pre-CAF days or the mid-2000s and earlier. It was basically you might be you know on eBay a whole bunch, you know, looking for whatever, use toilet seats or something, and for some reason a piece of comic artwork, and you're like, what? Like I went to conventions and there was art there, and I just yeah, yeah, I never it never connected. And it is the greatest feeling of being stupid in the world. It's like one of the happiest, stupidest moments of your life. I wish I had lots of stupid ass moments like that, because on the other side of it, it's the best. And it was uh my my older brother said, Hey, you know that you can buy the art for the books. And I'm like, What are you talking about? He's like, You can you can actually buy the art. There are like people that sell the art, right? And uh he found this uh dealer who's still one of the prominent dealers out there, Albert Moy, out of New York. Albert works with Jim Lee and J. Scott Campbell, I think, and Bruce Timm. Albert's one of the old-time and best uh art dealers out there. And uh Sam Keith had just come out with a book, uh Hulk Wolverine Book. It was a four-issue limited. It's a if you haven't read it, it's it's it's really beautiful. Sam wrote and drew it. And um it's centered around a little girl in a plane crash. And I won't give too much away, but Sam did the the hyper detailed, as only Sam can do, drawings of both Wolverine and a Hulk, like some of his renditions of Hulk in that book are they would make Sinkevich cry. And then he would show like the perspective from like reality, if you will, or the perspective from the the little girl. And when he did the little girl's perspective, it would be drawn in crayon. Wow. It was so it was so well done. And uh he said, Yeah, you can buy this art. And let you know, check out this Hulk Wolverine book. And Albert Moyes, uh, who was Sam Keith's art rep and and lifelong friend, um, he was gonna make some art available, and um uh a portion of the sales were gonna go to um a charity. Honestly, I don't remember the charity anymore, but like it hit my brother and I's you know, it hit every note, right? And uh I think we ended up buying, and it wasn't that cheap, brother. Even we splurged, we bought like 14 pages of sand key dart. Wow. Now, some of them were colored, some of them are black and white, and I just vaguely remember the price range being like $200 to $600. A steal it was and so back then with a ton of money, like you don't put zeros on those numbers now, right? Sure. Um that's the first one that I really remember. A lot of other early purchases that made a big impact on me, but that was the first one.

Badr Milligan 1:02:31

I know this might be an impossible question because I can only assume how much original art you've amassed throughout the years, but if I say just tell me what comes immediately to mind when I ask this. What would you say is your crown jewel in your original art collection? And it doesn't just have to be one. Whatever like comes to mind.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:02:50

Yeah, no, I have one because it's the most like personal sort of um, I mean, the there are there are three or four or five that vie for it, right? But you know, you got five kids, four of them are gonna be killed by this terrible alien that just came down that's sucking up little baby heads. You gotta pick one to keep, right?

Badr Milligan 1:03:10

Yeah, my mom picked me, but yeah. Sorry, Joseph Elliz Isaac David.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:03:13

Obvious, obvious. Outliers are all aliens. Um, I'm gonna say uh it's uh Wolverine Natsuke number three cover by George Pratt. So in 2002 and 3, George put out a four-issue uh Wolverine series, Wolverine Natsuke, fully painted. It I don't I think it took him over a year.

Badr Milligan 1:03:33

I have seen these covers so many times, and I've never put two and two together.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:03:38

And um it was, I mean, that date 2003 was 2002 and three was literally when I would came back to comics, started going to conventions and looking at art, and my brother breaking my my mind open the fact that you could buy art, and I didn't know George's work, and I saw that. Uh, I thought that it was incredible. Um, I saw his art at San Diego Comic Con in 2003 at Scott Eater's um booth. Scott Eater is a New York-based art dealer who has a gallery who is a huge underground and indie aficionado and has everything up to Dave McKean Sandman covers. Wow. Scott has like one of the most incredible um collections, and he's incredibly refined in uh in his understanding of sequential storytelling and an artist. And uh I bought two pieces from him. Um, there were interior panels. Some of the pages had like three or four different paintings that George would then assemble in Photoshop. So an entire painting would be a panel. Wow. But it allowed him to kind of zoom put the camera where he wanted and assemble the pages the way he wanted. I took them over to George's table, some of the very first pieces of art that I ever bought, and I showed them to George, and within three minutes, I was playing like um uh some 1950s blues music for him, and we were exchanging our iPods and exchanging our love for blues and jazz. George has literally been my brother ever since that day, and that cover shows you know Wolverine in this pool in this dreamscape with Mariko coming down in like a dream sequence and just like not touching him yet completely enfolding him. It's beautiful. Wow.

Badr Milligan 1:05:38

I I could tell you got damn near Tyriad talking about it. That's beautiful, man. Man, the power of art. I I think that is what um uh you know, uh if if I was to be able to dilute this whole conversation, it is the the power of art. And I feel like uh cause you you definitely are a champion of it and and you celebrate it. And I I think maybe a perfect example to point at, uh leading me into My next topic is um this year at uh OAX, I know I keep bringing it up. Sorry, not sorry. It was a great event. You had to be there. Um, it was the first instance of the Kirby Awards. And I would love to hear from you. I know that it took a lot of work to put that together, to work with the Kirby Estate to get that award going. I I guess for the layman, what is the Kirby Award and and what it what is it meant to champion?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:06:25

You know, we heard that the Kirby Estate, the family uh was considering um, you know, taking proposals for an award named after Jack, name, image, likeness, sort of thing. And um uh Jack is my number one comic artist. I have a lifelong love for Bill Sincavich, for example, and many others. But Kirby has got me when I was a kid, he got me when I was a teenager, he got me when I was a young man, he got me when I got out of jail, he got me when I was like old and not admitting it in midlife crisis. Kirby gets me. Like with so many people. And then his story, um, you know, his story, like where he came from and and what he did and how he put his head down in work. I'm an immigrant. Uh, I can't relate to that anymore. So I told everyone, I'm gonna put the damn proposal together. I I really don't care that there's like bigger people that are trying to go after it anyway. And then that I was really liberated to do it. So again, what's your specific question? Because man, I can talk about this forever.

Badr Milligan 1:07:28

I guess I I mean you you answered one half, which is like how did this award come about? But I guess what what is the spirit of the award? I know that there's a couple of categories for it, but like who is supposed to be receiving these awards?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:07:40

Right. So I was super liberated to make it, and I came to the understanding that some of my uh I went to school for philosophy, religion, and biology. Uh, I've studied like esoteric um uh books and alchemy and iconography, and um I've had some very good mentors with that. I put uh an anthology together based on melancholia, which was this old idea of there being an inspired form of melancholia, quite distinct from depression, that is like a it's like multi-phase process that you go through to train yourself and then embody what it is that you're supposed to create and then to create, and then you go through this process again. And um, I read a lot of works related to that, and I had this moment where I realized that Jack Kirby was basically a serial-inspired melancholic. He created entire categories of comics that extended out deeply into different uh types and categories and genres of pop culture. So I thought, okay, um, put an award show together that's different, number one, demand number one. What's the point of doing an award show if it's not entirely different? And uh I thought, okay, this inspired melancholia thing is like way too esoteric, but it's basically uh an artist's journey, you know, a hero's journey through the prism of an artist's journey, through these phases, and then have the awards in their own way take you through aspects of those phases that are required from beginner to master, and have those awards individually reflect attributes that Jack and Ross Kirby as a team, as a coupled entity, embodied and expressed like in nuclear ways. So that was the high bar for it, and that's why it took me a year to kind of compose it. And it's only seven awards, and I tried to make them less weird than it just sounded, and give them like you know, you'll love the copy on this, uh, Bodder. You'll see it like it's like an independence award, is one who remains steadfast and fierce. There you go. There's like six words for you to go, oh, that sounds kind of cool, and then I get weird how I describe it, but it's seven awards, five core awards, two legacy awards, which are basically like lifetime achievement awards. And we just had our first one uh at OEX.

Badr Milligan 1:10:14

Yeah, and I uh I had an opportunity to, I damn sure I made sure to be there. I was like, I can't miss this at all. Um thank you. And it was a it was a beautiful ceremony, man. I just a beautiful award show. Um, I had never, I don't think I've ever seen Walt Simonson at a con, or I've always just maybe I don't know. But hearing him speak about Kirby, you know, just like everyone just bringing really good positive energy. I left there thinking, we throw the phrase legends around a lot, but Kirby it truly lives up to that. And and I think it's because I mean we can spend another fucking five hours talking about why, but his work and the his spirit, I think, resonates, you know, decades afterwards, you know, like just the his his work ethic and what he represented. And yeah, you know, like I don't know, it felt like his spirit was there that night. I you know what I'm saying? Like just hearing all of the the award recipients, like, you know, just to be surrounded by, you know, uh peers and colleagues. I don't know, man. It was a great reward show, and I'm so glad that um, you know, you put all this thought into it, you know, your heart and soul into it, it sounds like.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:11:23

Literally, the only reason to like to start something of your own is you get to like infuse yourself in it. You get to take all the responsibilities of it. And um, if if I I I've avoided being the CEO or the leader of anything most of my life, and I've been asked a lot of times to do it, and it always bewildered me. I'm like, world's pretty desperate if they need me as a CEO, sort of thing. But also, there's like a there's a line that you don't want to cross because it sucks. Yeah, it does. But the award for it is you get to think something and then create it. So this was the central satisfaction for me creatively of like the last 18 months when to answer your prior question. Was it a book? Is it something someone's gonna have on the shelf or pay $13.99 and I get three cents per download? No. But very, very few things in my life do I allow myself to sort of sit back and say I'm proud of that. Very, very few things. That's that's one of them.

Badr Milligan 1:12:23

Yeah, that's a high caliber man. Uh, yeah. Bask in it. Uh bask in that for sure.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:12:27

Thank you. No, let's get let's get two, three, four years under our belt. Yeah, yeah. And uh because it's hard to manage uh an award, right? Everyone's everyone's a critic. Damn it, right? And then and then uh let's just retire it and get rid of it before it fucks up.

Badr Milligan 1:12:43

All right, I got you know, on this topic of of art and artists, you know, um you've spent over a a decade as an art agent for some of the biggest names. Uh, you know, I mentioned Clive Barker, Scott Raddock. The list goes on. As a gallery curator and an agent, what would you say is the secret to protecting like the raw vision of like the some of these avant-garde minds without letting the commercial side of the industry dilute their art?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:13:12

Conversation, trust. They have to be able to express what they're feeling. And uh, and then you gotta like on an empathetic level, like exceed their even remote expectations that someone would understand the condition that they're in. And if you can do that at the right time, you preempt them from making all the wrong decisions. That's the real answer. It is complicated. Um, but that that's the way that I manage it. The the the the stuff like related to like who you should work with and is this a good gallery to show at and what is it gonna take, and uh and helping them put like a simple agreement together so that it's not just uh arm shake and and you get them other the third party to do some more work or helping them with their pricing and where they can place their art so that more people can see it, and having you know, get them a better uh uh camera so that they can photograph their workers or kind of living on online sale, all that kind of stuff is easy. You know, you just figure it out. Problem solution, you're sensitive to it. All those things are very important and cumulative, but fundamentally, it's walking the path with them.

Badr Milligan 1:14:26

I like that. What would you say to the the aspiring artist that's listening right now that is on this journey and they want to, you know, uh get themselves elevated to that status where they could even start thinking about an agent and galleries? Like, are there any um common misconceptions, anything that that you would say to the aspiring artist?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:14:47

No, other than the engage, just engage, like go to the shows, talk to other artists, see what their experiences are. Um always being invest in yourself to to begin with. Like I try to tell the in I try to do these town hall meetings, Zoom meetings with the indie creators, and I tell them, Instagram is not your friend. I get a little brutal with, you know, like I get the likes and the comments and why you do it. You should do it. Don't tell me it. Don't don't let's not get crazy here. Don't tell me it's your friend. Yeah, if you post your a one piece of art every week on Comic R fans cumulatively, that is gonna do a 10, 100x more for you than Instagram will. I'm not saying drop Instagram, so it's figuring out like outlets and places and shows and people and possibilities, like just the idea that indie creators could do commissions and that there are a lot of uh character collectors out there that have 300 and 500, they have 500 Modoc pieces. Who are these freaks, right? And that they love looking for like new perspectives and styles, and there's no better place than an indie con for that. I mean, there's no it's crazy for a character collector. Um, and that the original comic art market, in a way, is helping indie creators because a lot of the prices there are escalating. Where's the joy? I say the joy resides at an indie show with indie creators and directly dealing with human beings. So, what I would tell them is start to form a worldview around it and how you sort of pace what it is that you want to do and what it is that you want to need, and talk to people and test it. And then, like with anything else, walk the path with somebody. It doesn't have to be an agent, it can be a collaborator, a friend, a writer, another artist. And don't make it into a club. Don't make it so that it's you against the world and you guys got a shield because you're separating yourself from the world. Just walk together with other people. It's that's different. That's a that's a that's a mistake, I think, that people make. And I man, I get it. Uh you you're gonna need to do that, but you know, don't do it on purpose and forever and have it be impenetrable. So that question again, you ask the hardest questions. They're gigantic questions, right? It still comes down to the individual. Um, but survey the landscape and um always remember that it's a whole bunch of small steps. That is not a cliche. It everyone wants to come out fully formed. Who doesn't? Of course. Sorry, you know, one in a billion, maybe, and when you read that story, they're lying to you.

Badr Milligan 1:17:32

I I think that was a gigantic answer, a damn good answer with some good advice. I'm gonna follow that up with a silly question because you keep bringing up Modoc. Who is who has surprised you the most in terms of artists that have depicted Modoc in a way that have just left you like, you know, wow? And I guess any like artists that I would not expect on this list of uh of artists that you've commissioned for Modoc faces?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:17:55

I got one on the wall. I I look at it all day. I can bring it over and show it to you. Well, is this audio or video? I have no idea.

Badr Milligan 1:18:04

Audio is my bread and butter, but there is a video version if you want to check it out. There's so many, man.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:18:09

So yeah, just it's just tell me the artist, it's fine. Uh Jonathan Wayshack. I love John Wayshack. Uh uh he's uh he's one of my boys from 20 years back. The reason that I picked Modoc is the actual answer to your question. I picked Modoc because he was the most throwaway, weird, slightly esoteric Kirby creation. But this this big head in a chair kind of design or motif is something Kirby ended up coming back to like three times in his life. Modoc was the last version of it. It started in the 50s. I I can show you some really weird Modoc precursors, right? But tell me another character that embodies Kirby more than Modoc. There's nothing about that character that should have lasted more than one issue. And 55, 1967, TOS 94 is uh November 67 it came out. So what he's coming up on being 60, 60 years old next year, right? Yeah, and that character has endured. Writers and artists have been able to project all kinds of shit onto that character from serious to mostly humorous, take the piss out of him, whatever, right? And the character, Kirby's creation is so malleable, it's been able to take them all. And I that is literally why I did the character, and every single freaking human being on this planet, whether they're a pro artist or not, draws Modoc differently. It's the genius of Kirby.

Badr Milligan 1:19:44

It freaks me out. Wow, that's powerful. I cannot wait to uh see some of these in person when you when you're down here in Jags.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:19:50

There is one question that got that's Eli asked what music I was listening to. I'm gonna feel bad if Eli if I don't answer Eli. I was uh I I wrote down a few things here for Eli to listen to. Um Tom Waits uh On the Other Side of the World and Um Only Living Boy in New York, Simon and Garfunkel, Broken Bells, Good Luck. That song rocks politically too. Uh Stone Roses, um Beyond Belief by Alvis Costello, uh some weird Irish music I won't mention. And I'll probably stop there because it's yeah, I went old school since OAX to recover. Some like throw, throw, throwback stuff. Yeah, no, Oscar Peterson too. You look good to me. Solid list.

Badr Milligan 1:20:38

I like that. All right. Last question for you, Kaz. Uh, if an indie artist or a comic book lover is sitting on the fence after all that we've talked about in terms of the passion that you bring to comic shows, the experiences that you want to elevate. If someone is sitting on the fence about coming out to uh Duval Hall on July 11th, what is the ultimate uh elevator pitch for for what they're gonna experience at the IC3 First Coast Comic Con event?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:21:04

Well, normally I tell them to stay on the fence and get hemorrhoids.

Badr Milligan 1:21:10

Yeah, we don't need we don't need you over here, right? Your wishy-washy self.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:21:14

Here's what Michael trailer Denny, Michael and Denny running First Coast, and and myself, we are we we put this show together and and like we look back and like damn, we put a show together. So that's the first thing. We want you to walk in by the time you walk out, go, damn, that was a great show. Now, what does that mean? It means you're going in there because you want to look at some um maybe some old school uh comic book dealers and some back issues and some graded books, and then you go, oh shit, they got an awesome TCG alley. And wait a second, some of the some artists I need signatures from are here, and then you're gonna go to the other side of the hall and get signatures from some pro artists, and you're gonna have to walk through a hundred plus indie creators, and there's gonna be like five or ten of them that go, man, they do they they do crazy work. Who is that? I want you to be the most ADD motherfucker on the planet and go, that place was the greatest fucking place I've ever been to. I want you to feel a calmness inside that you have never felt before because you're satisfied. There we go.

Badr Milligan 1:22:24

Tell me, listeners, tell me what other Comic Con wants you to feel a calmness inside, all right? Because you're ADD as fuck. I mean, that's literally that's it. Yeah, look, the bar that bar is is that's a high bar, but if there's anyone that can accomplish that, I have full faith in you and Mike and Denny.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:22:43

And the whole team, man. I'm sorry, I've I've been talking like more about myself than I like. The calf team, Bill Cox. You've got Matt Sardo, director of communications. He's show he's showrunning uh up in uh Providence. That show is gonna be awesome. I'll see you guys there. And Tatiana, our director of events, Matt De Tullio, everybody's favorite Italian, uh VP of ops, Colin Solon, our our our our news guy. I mean, calf is a gigantic news site. Like we could just operate as a news site. Thank you, Colin.

Badr Milligan 1:23:12

And I think I'll go ahead and add to uh I meant to mention this earlier, but you know, you're getting two shows for one one venue, one ticket, two awesome shows. IC3, First Coast Comic Con, Saturday, July 11th. It'll be here before you know it. Get your tickets while you can. And I think with that being said, Kaz, this has been an amazing conversation. I feel rejuvenated. I feel I feel calm inside after all of this. Uh, I want to go fucking read some Modoc comics now. I don't know where that came from. Tell me about that.

Kasra Ghanbari 1:23:41

But uh I don't I don't recommend it.

Badr Milligan 1:23:45

Look, with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the short box podcast, and uh we just finished talking to Kazra Ganbari about man, we talked about a little bit about everything. We talked about the art of the comic show. We talked about uh we showed Jack Kirby a ton of love. We talked about Modoc, we talked about original comic art, uh and everything in between, all right? Um I'm gonna have links to Kaza's uh social media in the show notes. I have links to Comic Art Fans in the show notes. I'll have links to where you can get tickets for the IC3 First Coast Comic Con event happening Saturday, July 11th. That'll all be in the show notes. You know where to find this stuff in the show notes. There's links to all of this. Uh be on the lookout for future announcements, future projects. Um and yeah, thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being a uh a fly on the wall for this awesome conversation. We'll catch you around. Peace.

Intro Music 1:24:38

Hey yo, run it back.

Badr Milligan 1:24:40

Um Kaz, all right, I gotta before I ask my last question. Do you own any Kirby pieces? Is it safe to say? Or have you had an opportunity to buy a couple?

Kasra Ghanbari 1:24:49

I owned uh I owned uh the back cover um from one of his books, and I gave it to an artist as a gift. That's cool. And then uh I owned uh I owned a pencil sketch, I gave it away. Wow. I own absolutely no Kirby's. I'm definitely not a rich man. I've been around a long time, but I've I've sold off parts of my collection at different points that I was starting biotech companies and not getting salaries and things like that. But I am left with like 500 Modoc commissions that nobody wants that make me laugh my fucking ass off.

Badr Milligan 1:25:26

I love that. That was great, man. That is awesome.