Badr Milligan: 0:00

In this episode of the short box.

Greg Pak: 0:02

It's there's just a lot of juice there. I mean, the the whole misunderstood monster thing. You know, I think it comes from a couple of things. One is just like monsters are cool. I've always loved monster movies. Like I always love monster movies more than horror movies. You know, like when I was a kid, I wasn't into slasher movies. I'm sure that growing up as a Happyton kid in Dallas, Texas that I, you know, kind of developed an instinctive for stories about underdogs and outsiders. You know, like like seeing things from the other person's side has always been compelling to me. And that's the most extreme example of that.

Badr Milligan: 1:08

Yoo, Short Box Nation. Hello again, welcome back, you're brand new, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Badr Milligan, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show, where we bridge the between the panels of your favorite comics with the people who put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. You know this by now. This is episode 511, and today I'm joined by filmmaker and comic writer Greg Pak. Now, prior to breaking into comics, Greg Pak had a of award-winning short films under his belt like His first official comic work would come in 2004 in the form of a four-issue Warlock series alongside artist Adler. And since then, he's gone on to write over 600 plus comic books. That's a whole lot of word bubbles, that's a whole lot of text, including Marvel's blockbuster stories, Planet and World War Hulk. He's also written Mech Cadet U for Boom Studios, which became an animated TV series for Netflix, and he did a 50 plus issue run on Marvel's Star Wars Darth Vader Fast forward to today, and Greg will be the new Dynamite Entertainment's Thundercats line of Thundercats number one, which is hitting shops on October 7th. Greg will be joined by artist David Cousins and colorist Igor Monte for a fresh new chapter in the Thundercats books. So we've got plenty to talk about between the new book, all the good stuff he's written at Marvel and places, and we'll probably be taking a lot of detours we just go over his life and career. But before we get started on that, big shout out to sponsor and supporters, including Gotham City Shop. It's not only the longest running sponsor of the but it's also the best damn comic shop in Northeast If you live in Jax, you can go visit them today on Boulevard and see for yourself why the shop has just won another Best of Florida award. And if you don't live close by, well, good news. You can buy comics from them online at I also want to personally thank all of you short out there, okay? AKA the loyal supporters over on the short box Thank you, thank you for your support, and thank you for uh encouraging me, all right, motivating me to keep thing going. If you enjoy the show and you want to be counted among the short box elite, consider becoming a short box patreon.com slash the short box for less than five bucks a month, which is uh at this point cheaper than a single Marvel comic nowadays. Comics are expensive, but for less than five bucks a you get to listen to bonus episodes that don't make it on the main feed. You get early access to everything I do before anyone And probably most importantly, you get to be in short box history with a shout out by name at the end of every episode. Once again, check it out for yourself at patreon.com the short box. Now, without further ado, let's bring on our guest of today. Calling in all the way from New York is comic writer Pac. Here we go. Hello Greg.1 second slow. Hello, Greg. Studio audience. Studio audience. A lot of people in this small apartment. On the other side. You wouldn't believe how many people I can cram. Greg, thanks for being here. Um I'm excited to chat with you today.

Greg Pak: 4:21

Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Badr Milligan: 4:22

I was uh I was telling you prior to us hitting that you are you are a writer, you're a name that has I follow, that has followed me throughout my entire book journey. I was telling you that uh Planet Hulk is one of, is the first comic book I put on my poll list when I got my own poll list. Uh at the age, I don't know, I was like 16, 17, and took me to this shop that I cannot recall for the last, it's no longer here, it hasn't been around for a while in Jacksonville. But uh, he took me to a comic shop and um he was like, my son wants to start one of those poll list things. And um I ended up putting Planet Hulk on there and uh Jeff John's Green Lantern. I don't recall what else was on there, but I know those two were. And I'll never forget just being blown away. I mean, it was my first time like following new and comics. Prior to that, I was like back issue digging. I was reading my dad's old books. I mean, it was like his newest stuff was like, you know, this is like 2005, six, I think. And I mean, like, my my dad had stopped collecting new for a while. So I mean, like the newest thing to me was like Jim 90s X-Men was like the newest thing I read. So yeah, I say all that to say that um, yeah, man, it's it's crazy to say to think that, you know, uh, this many years forward, I'd be having a chance to sit here and talk with you.

Greg Pak: 5:49

And it's wild, you know, that happens the older I get, the often people tell me that. Uh and so I'm I'm always thrilled to hear it, and then also my scratching my gray beard as I hear it.

Badr Milligan: 6:00

Your knee your knee starts hurting a little bit. You're like, ah, exactly.

Greg Pak: 6:03

Don't say it's too late. Oh my gosh. I uh yeah, I mean it was Planet Hooks. Now we started that thing almost 22 years ago. That's when the first issue. No, 21 years ago. 21 years ago is when the first issue came out. So it's uh it's been quite a ride.

Badr Milligan: 6:18

And uh, you know, last night I ended up um I was on the the library app, uh, and I saw that they had the Hulk, the new Marvel Premiere Collection Planet Hulk book on there. So I ended up uh renting it from uh borrowing it. And I noticed that uh you wrote like a really cool like foreword, like the nice little introduction. I found it absolutely amazing. You were talking about, you know, righteous anger and you know, uh transforming, you know, revenge and and anger into like care and you know the effects it has and like you know, just your personal experience of you know, anger and dealing with like, you know, just very extreme emotions. I found it really uh a great way to kind of revisit this story that I haven't read in a long time, but I know it deals with a lot of those topics. Uh I was curious, I guess, like, what's it like seeing Hulk still being reprinted, still being admired, you being introduced for a brand new audience? You know, it's still heralded as uh one of the best Hulk stories of all time. Now it's, you know, getting this premiere collection You wrote a brand new foreword for it. Well, what's it like seeing Planet Hulk still so relevant after all these years?

Greg Pak: 7:30

Yeah, it's it is a wild thing. I mean, um, you never really know what's gonna take off. You know what I'm saying? Like you you put all the same kind of passion and and work it. And sometimes certain projects, um I mean, sometimes stuff really great doesn't quite get the attention you, you know, it it deserves. And sometimes stuff that's maybe not so great sells a whole you know what I mean? I mean, you're trying to make everything great, but um so so there's an element of chance to it and timing, you know I mean? Some some stuff just uh, you know, like it may not be the time, but maybe it's uh ahead of its time, or maybe it's like the perfect time for something and the marketing just clicks. But every once in a while, everything comes together all at the same time. And I feel like Planet Hulk is one of those books for me it was like just in terms of just the cycle of comics and it was we we we hit at a very lucky time when people were to see the Hulk cut loose and be the Hulk. Yeah, and um uh because you know, there'd been other great that have been happening for a while, but they'd been more and and this was something fresh and new, and people were just really hungry for it. And then and then also it was feeding into Civil War, you which was Marvel's giant event, sort of uh the the really breakthrough event. So it I it just clicked, and then everybody on the creative it would just be like a beautiful creative team, and we had uh we had this little special place where we got to do our thing without much interference, you know. We got to build this whole world and the Hulk was off planet, so we didn't have to get like a million you know approvals permissions from people to do stuff because we weren't like with everybody else's book at that point in the story. So we got to kind of just go off and do this really fun thing, and and it just hit people just really liked it, you know, and the the it actually went up uh in circulation issue to issue, which is that comics just don't do that, you know what I mean? Like every series, like there's attrition, it always goes And so if something was actually selling more with each that's mind-blowing. You know, it was a very lucky time. Uh I mean Carlo Pagulan and Aaron Lepresti were the main uh, Chris Sotomayor was the uh colorist. And uh the covers again, uh Ladrone, Ladrone, those covers mind-blowing. And then we had all you know, we had all kinds of like doing stuff, you know, throughout, doing a few pages here there. We just got incredible people, like this Filipino artist Nino, and uh, and of course Gary Frank did a bunch of Um and it was, you know, and a gorgeous lettering from Randy Gentile and Joe Caramagna. And it was like just a tremendous team. Mark Penicchio was the editor, and he and I were just thick thieves through that whole time. We would like I'd like go up to Midtown and we'd we we he'd out of the Marvel offices and we go to this dingy little pizza joint around the corner and just sit in the back and like And it was uh hugely fun time, and so yeah, we I mean it just hits like that. And so so it's it's tremendous, just the the you know, like that takes off and other people respond, it's just it's amazing. I mean, we were also feeding into World War Hulk, which next big event after Civil War, and so so that was also part of it too. It's like people knew that you know the Hulk got exiled by annoying Marvel heroes, so-called heroes, that eventually gonna come back, you know what I mean, to get some revenge. And so we had this slow burn going that people really to and stuff.

Badr Milligan: 10:54

Greg, I wanted to shift gears and ask you uh another I mentioned in the intro, you know, that stat that you've written over 600 comics. I actually got that stat from your website. Do you remember what was the first one you signed for a fan?

Greg Pak: 11:08

Oh. I mean, it must have been Warlock number one, uh, which was first Marvel comic that I did. I did a signing in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the oh what's the name of that comic book store? It's this um Million Year Picnic, Millionaire Picnic, that was it. And um uh that and that was a comic store that I had visited from time to time over the years. Uh, you know, like whenever I was in, you know, I I I from time, you know, like with my short films and and and my feature film robot stories, I was on the road a lot and Cambridge and doing events and stuff. And so whenever I was there, I would like poke my head in. So it was a lot of fun doing a signing there. But I I think that was the first time I probably ever signed uh signed a comic for somebody.

Badr Milligan: 11:52

I asked a couple of friends of mine, uh, I said, what to mind when you hear Greg Pack's name? Like what comics, what characters, or whatever it may And here's a couple of the responses I got. Obviously, Planet Hulk, John Wick, you did a John Wick Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh Agents of Atlas, uh, World War Hulk, obviously, Uh, for me, aside from Planet Hulk, uh, I'd also uh I mentioned um Incredible Hercules at the time, you co-wrote with Fred Van Lentse. Uh I had him on the show a couple uh I think either this year or last, and he had great things to say about that experience. But uh I guess what are some comics for you that you not enough people know you wrote? Oh, or what's a deep cut for you? Like when when a fan mentions this, you know, like, oh, you know Bald, you know my story.

Greg Pak: 12:37

Well, I'm always psyched when people know the creator-owned Uh so I I'm I'm pumped when they mention Mech It at You or Ronan Island, uh, which are two series I did with Boom, um, Lawful, which is a the third series I did with Boom. In terms of like work for higher stuff, there's uh yeah, a couple of things that I'm like, this is one of the best I ever wrote. Hardly anybody talks about it. And that's like the uh I did an internal warrior run uh for and uh the second arc in that run was called uh the Eternal and it was about a very old eternal warrior. Uh and uh and he's like in a culture that's um rejected basically. Um but now there's this sort of rise of technology again, his granddaughter is getting pulled into this, and it's uh uh it's this very it's a kind of gentle dread throughout whole story, and I just felt like it worked really well. I was really happy with that.

Badr Milligan: 13:34

You know, uh it's funny you bring up robot stories I was looking to watch. I was just like, oh, let me watch it, you know, uh to see like what, you know, uh let me see like this body of I had no idea the whole film making background that come from. So I was like, oh, let me see if I can find it. It's very hard to find online. I managed to find a digital copy somewhere, but it got thinking, you know, you you transitioned from from you know, robot stories had uh had won all these Um, and then it was like boom, you transition into like writing comics and you become like one of the most long-running comic writers in the industry. Uh, how did your film background shape your I don't know, your your work on comics, like the visual pacing and like that?

Greg Pak: 14:14

It all is additive, you know what I mean? Like I actually started off drawing comics as a kid, you what I mean? So I was the the first, some of the first sort of creative I ever did was comics. Uh, you know, I've got like a thing that a couple of things I drew when I was like three or five or something that are you know, my mom held on to. They're they're basically comics. And um I was a kid who drew, and uh I, you know, through in school I was drawing for the school paper and you know, for the school paper and all that kind of stuff. I love movies, and eventually I got the chance to go to school uh after a long, you know, journey of a lot of other But when I had got the opportunity to talk to folks at after robot stories came out, it just was a natural segue. Just because I had I'd grown up reading and writing and comics or reading and drawing comics, and then you know, spent all this time making films, but both film and comics are visual storytelling, you know what I mean? Like and and they're both dramatic storytelling in the sense that you know people differentiate between didactic and storytelling or whatever. Like in a novel, you can explore somebody's mental state just in prose for a long time. In film, theater, comics, you're relying mainly on visual which means you're showing scenes. You know what I mean? You're showing everything, all the storytelling you're trying to depict through through action. You're like you're you're trying to think more visually. So it's like, you know, like he this is corny, but like he the pencil, like his the the pencil in his hand snaps. You know what I mean? You're trying to show a find a visual way to depict that state. So having thought that way, having had to think that way as filmmaker, set me up really well to continue doing that comics writer. Now, comics is a hybrid because we also have prose as part comics. We have the written word, and so we can do all kinds of stuff. Um also comics has its own sort of beats and and breakdowns, and and uh at the end of every page, you want to have some cliffhanger that makes you turn the page. And and at the end of a comic, if you're writing monthly at the end of that issue, you definitely want to have that brings people back to the next issue of that. And certainly there's tele that's that's a television thing, you know, that's an old film serial thing, the cliffhanger. Uh I mean you even see that in movies, you know, like the scenes at the end of movies these days and all that. You want to you got something to pull people back. But but in comics like just your your goal in a movie is to people sitting and watching it and not clicking away, know what I mean? Um your goal in a comic is to get people to literally turn the page. So there's there's sort of a different dynamic in terms of um where those little breaks come. You know, like in a in a movie, like in the first minute, you gotta catch somebody, in the first five minutes or so, you to have another hook. Definitely by the first half hour of a movie, that's the act. And you really wanna, you know, set things in motion, have you know set up in a compelling way, and really propel on, you know, have your character plunging after whatever need to be plunging after. Like you kind of know what the deal is there, and now you're gonna see what happens. Um, in a comic book, it's sort of like you've got that first page just to hook somebody, period. And then I think like the first four or five pages are really critical because that's what gets previewed online, you know what I mean? So you want to hook somebody there, definitely by the that first issue of the comic, you gotta have a real solid to bring people back, you know what I mean? So that people know, know what the deal is, know what we're in for, and then have this burning question of what the heck next, so then they come back. So there's different, you know, beats where that stuff Film writing is easier than comics writing. I'll just I'll just come out and say that as somebody who's both, because in comics, the writer is responsible for through more than the screenwriter. You know, the screenwriter, like the director and gonna come in and decide how the thing is shot. The screenwriter certainly can indicate that and all of that. Um, and definitely a comics writer and a comics artist together, but at the same time, in a typical comic book the writer is sort of taking a stab at setting out where page breaks are, where the panel breaks are, and also figuring out how to depict action in a series of still images, you instead of like in a movie you can have somebody teleport and they're just like you don't have to show the beginning and end of it. You know what I mean? Like I like like it's all in one frame. In a movie, you can have some in a single shot, you can have somebody walk into a room, sit down, and you know, like take a sip of coffee or something like that, and then do a take. You know what I mean? Like that's the same, that's that could be, you know, like barely a line or two in a movie. In a comic, to do all of that might take three panels. You know what I mean? So you have to think about ways how it's actually going to be depicted in the panel. You can't have you, you, you gotta limit how much happens in a single panel and figure out how that storytelling happens in still images. So that's a that's a challenge.

Badr Milligan: 19:02

I'm glad you brought this up because I feel like uh the conversation about the Venn diagram of uh uh storyboarding, uh, and and comic books and that and whole process has been brought up quite a bit in the the recent episode. I had Patrick Horvath uh uh on the show a couple months ago, who comes from a film background. Jimmy Palmiotti, uh a few months before that also spoke. You know, he dabbles in movies as as well. So he was talking about that. And both conversations kind of brought up the comic book making and the collaborative process, um, even though you know filmmaking is a collaborative a lot of different hands, a lot of different roles, and people that you work with, comic books is still like such a more direct and leaner machine.

Greg Pak: 19:46

Oh, yeah.

Badr Milligan: 19:47

And I guess and I understand that completely, but I curious, do you ever miss it? Do you ever miss the chaos and the the fun of of

Greg Pak: 19:55

Well, the the thing that I miss the most from filmmaking is with actors. That's just a glorious, exciting thing. You know what I mean? Where you know you're working with actors and suddenly the are coming to life and you're realizing they're bringing to it that you haven't seen. Or there are four lines of dialogue here we just don't even because this look, the way you guys are exchanging it look, that covers it all. You know what I mean? Like there's that so that that kind of exciting that's that's just a thrill, you know, the all the subtleties that and uh human subtleties that come from working with an actor, that's just amazing. At the same time, you know, like comics, I mean well, for film is also uh I mean I love I love I love filmmaking, I working on sets, but filmmaking is less conducive to a life than comics is. Not that comics, not that comics is the you know, the easiest thing either, but um, you know, like you can raise a kid and be around and take care of your kid and have and because you make your own schedule at comics, you know what I mean? Like you can you can really be uh like you may be up all but you can be there during the day. Film is like when you're coordinating a hundred people, like there's a schedule. And if you're not there, you're screwing the whole thing up. So uh comics is a little more conducive towards everyday Of course, it I mean working at the quote unquote top of comics field uh is pays peanuts compared to working at the of the film industry. Even like you know, like it's ridiculous. But um, but you know, there's there's certain advantages. I mean, there's also that kind of funny thing where as much as we grouse about comics uh and about like the corporate side of comics, comics has generally you have a lot more freedom, and can do a lot, you know, can generally do more things than is often possible in film. Like there's I I I the way I kind of explain it sometimes is that in comics you gotta get sometimes you only have to get other person to say, yeah, let's do that. You know, but like with a comics company, you maybe like like one of the smaller comics, even even like a Marvel or DC, you get Or three people at that company to say, yeah, that awesome. You're off to the races. You're making that comment. But you want to make a movie? You've got to get 100 people to say it. Yeah, so much red. Some of those people are. Yeah, exactly. And there's and there's there's there's countless people who can say no at any given opportunity. And then the person who's in charge of your project, you know, like the producer, like then they get fired, and then you all over again, or it just dies. You know what I mean?

Badr Milligan: 22:22

Like it's just your support system is gone. Greg, I guess it said you bring up Marvel. I so robot stories comes out, it gets a lot of acclaim, and then you uh have a meeting with Joe Kossada to uh Marvel, and you know, uh you got the Warlock series. I think you end up doing uh a couple of X-Men series, then we get Planet Hulk. Uh, I've read somewhere that you signed like an deal with them for that first chunk of your career. I guess why go exclusive off the rip?

Greg Pak: 22:49

Well, at the at the time, uh it wasn't from the beginning. It was like, I don't know, six months in or so when I when I got they offered me the exclusive. I came with a raise and uh, you know, like a nuts, if I'm correctly. Um for a while, um you could get health insurance through Um and so that was an advantage later on. We got health insurance through my wife's job, so that so necessary. And then and then also, you know, later on it was like I I I think it's really smart in comics to work with as many companies as you can because you you never know when you stuff will dry up at one company. Like the maybe, maybe the editors you work with move on to do different things, and and uh and so it's great to have you uh other companies where you've got good connections and good experiences. Also, sometimes your editors go to different company uh and then it's like, hey, let's work together over there. Um so yeah, I haven't been exclusive. I was an exclusive the first few years, but uh I haven't for quite a while, actually, for like seven years or I think I 2011 or so, 2012 maybe that I stopped. I can't remember.

Badr Milligan: 23:55

I got your wiki pulled up uh specifically the page. I mean, the the Marvel section is is very thorough. It's a long time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg Pak: 24:03

And well, I've been yeah, and I've been writing for Marvel throughout that time. You know what I mean? Like even like after I stopped being exclusive, I was still

Badr Milligan: 24:11

So what's been the funnest project or most challenging? Just thinking about Marvel specifically, because you like, you know, and we're talking about it and you spent a lot of time there. What's the funnest project or most challenging one that you had?

Greg Pak: 24:23

I mean, every project you're learning something from, you Um, even like I mean, I won't name the project, but there there was a project that was just really challenging on every level. Uh it was kind of like there were just uh certain that came with it that made it incredibly hard to actually a good comic in itself. You know, like we had to really work hard to figure out, you know, to manage expectations and and manage the and and get permission to do certain things. I mean, I I just got through telling you that comics is frustrating than the film in that regard. But you know, every once in a while you get a project that with a lot of baggage and it's just very hard to uh work all the different uh the different stakeholders' desires. But I feel like we heroically hoisted that comic up uh D plus to uh to a to a B minus, which is huge. You know what I mean? That's huge. From the outside, it kind of looks like a B minus, which is But at the same time, it's like we knew what we did. You know what I mean? We knew how much incredibly hard work and how much and what what really what kind of heroic work we did to make that happen. And and um And that's that's a huge learning experience uh and it's kind of like oh okay, I can do anything. You know what I mean? Like that sounds ridiculous, but that's that's sort You know what I mean? It's like we're good at this and we can spin, if not gold in this case, at least we spend uh we at least we spun silver of uh out of flax. I can't even remember the metaphor now, but silver out of a maybe not uh maybe not gold, but so during your time with uh you end up co-creating uh Amadeus Cho.

Badr Milligan: 25:59

I I think Wave is also credited to you as well, giving uh you know Asian readers, heroes that aren't necessarily background characters. You know, these are you know uh Amadeus Cho for sure has been a central pillar of of the universe for a while. I uh what has that legacy meant to you over the years?

Greg Pak: 26:15

Well, it's been huge. I mean, I'm uh I'm biracial, I'm half Korean and half Uh always grew up identifying very strongly as Asian, I mean, I I'm very ambiguous looking now, I think. Uh with a bunch of I'm serious. It's like if I'm with a bunch of Greek people, everybody I'm Greek. I'm with you know, I blend in.

Badr Milligan: 26:34

If it's if I'm if I'm in a brown or tan group, I blend in. What is it? Puerto Rican? He might be Puerto Rican. He's definitely maybe Arab.

Greg Pak: 26:40

He's uh I don't know. What are you? What is your background?

Badr Milligan: 26:43

Uh I am uh Moroccan.

Greg Pak: 26:45

Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? You know what I mean? Like, so I go to Spain, people talk to me in Spanish. Oh, yeah, definitely. I get that a lot. All right. But um, but you know, when I was a kid, I looked much more stereotypically Asian. You know what I mean? And so and definitely the racists knew I was Asian. Uh, so I developed a lot of, you know, kind of identity and Um, and uh I mean, I think that one of the things that drove me into storytelling was this feeling of like, you know, we be able to tell our stories, we gotta be able to with each other. And in a way, this sounds dramatic, but I think it's true. It's like that was part of survival for me, was being able to communicate with people.

Badr Milligan: 27:23

Yeah.

Greg Pak: 27:23

Doing stories with people of different backgrounds, um uh with a variety of backgrounds, but the kind of you know, that the reality in which we live. That's always been really important to me. So I was thrilled to be able to introduce Amadeus Joe. I mean, we we are like Amadeus Joe, we introduced that was like 20, 21 years ago now. That was right around the time that was right. That's a seasoned character now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh and still he's kind of a rarity to be like uh, you know, a a big mouth Asian like Asian American punk kid. Like that's that's still kind of a rare thing to see in And uh um, but it's been very special to have the chance to characters like that. When we created Wave, um, we were doing this Agents of Atlas book, which um was one of my kind of dream projects to pull all these different Asian and Asian American characters into a single, you know, team book. Um, and we finally got that going. And um, but I was looking around at these characters because we were bringing in these legacy characters and like Jimmy Wu and Shang Chi, yeah, and then some newer characters that have been developed. But there were no Southeast Asian characters, like didn't have have much of that. And I was like, dude, we need a Filipino, we need a Filipino uh hero or heroine. And um we got Lineal Yu, who is come on from the Philippines, and he designed the character and we co-created, so we away, and that was just like that was that that was another you know project that just hit the sweet spot. Like this was around the time Avengers Endgame came out, so was sort of at the very height of the Marvel movie internationally, right? And there hadn't been this kind of thing done with Filipino in particular, you know, specifically with Marvel, and folks were just so ready for it. I mean, there was a Filipino comic book store that did cover for that book, and they sold just this one one comic in the Philippines. I think they told me they sold 5,000 copies. Get out of here, wow. Their best-selling book ever, you know. Um, for you know, like 5,000, like there's a lot of small books that don't sell that much. You know what I mean? And this was one comic book shop. I think that first is first issue like was reprinted four five times. What was the uh what was the issue again? Uh um it was a crossover book and an agent of Atlas book, so it was a long title, it was War of the Realms, Agents of number one. So uh yeah, but um but you know, so that was you know, that of thing is you know, it was a ton of fun. It was very gratifying. I mean, there were there were there was like several waves of like press in the Philippines where people were like, this new thing's coming out. And then there's like there was like a Filipino star who'd asked, she'd been asked if she would play Wave, and she said, Oh no, I'm probably too old for that. And they're like, Star declines roll of Wave. That was a whole nother wave of press. You know what I mean? So it was it was it was bonkers.

Badr Milligan: 30:10

Talk about a headline. You know, on the topic of Amadeus show, um, I was surprised to learn that he's been in a lot of other I mean, from video games to cartoons to uh to TV. I I guess what's your favorite version or interpretation of Amadeus Show and do you like keep up with his with appearances? Do they have to? I'm assuming they got to contact you before they put him on the thing.

Greg Pak: 30:35

What am I thinking? Sorry. But I mean sometimes they give me a heads up. Sometimes I just find out. Uh but um they've been very, I mean, they've been good with I mean, they like the character, I think they like the for who the character is. Like he's a he's a good big mouth, you know what I mean? Sometimes you need a big mouth to come in and like flap his a lot and make some trouble. And I think they like him for that reason. I also like the fact that they have uh done a good job of him as a totally, you know, regular schmegular, second Asian American kid, you know what I mean? Who's uh as opposed to like they haven't tried to like him as a Korean kid from Korea or something like that, which which which is fine, but that's not this character. You know what I mean? Like this character is doing something, and and very is doing something distinct because there's a long Marvel Comics of like um, you know, like Japanese characters from Japan, Chinese characters from China, all that, you like the it's almost like you know, there's there's a lot of different, like sort of Captain Americas of their home you know what I mean? Like and and there are very few Asian American characters, Jubilee really stands out in that regard, but there wasn't a a teenage kid, Asian American kid in Marvel Palace at at that point. So um, and so the way he's been depicted in in the games and the TV shows and all that has respected that, and not just it, but enjoyed that. Like they they they seem to dig that. So I'm very pleased with that. I mean, my favorite version, of course, is the version comics. Come on, yeah. Probably uh, you know, like Takmy Ozawa in particular is co-creator of the character, and every time he draws like there's there's my boy, you know what I mean? So that's really cute. It's nice, yeah.

Badr Milligan: 32:17

I I loved Amadeus Chow in that incredible. I mean, uh the Hulk run, but especially in the Hercules series. I thought it was such a good balance between like, you this knucklehead, uh uh, you know, uh bro god, and then this brilliant, very young child, and him being, you just the balance and the way they worked off each other, some of the dialogue. I remember like falling in love with Amadeus Chow just to see that he's still around and you know, uh the how they elevated him, how they brought you back to you know, his uh his his first you know uh series of his own. Yeah. Awesome to see him grow.

Greg Pak: 32:50

Yeah, he was he was a lot of, yeah. No, and we've we've had a lot of fun with that character.

Badr Milligan: 32:53

Greg, do you remember, do you recall uh what's comic book memory? Like, do you remember the first one you were either given or the first one that you bought with your own money?

Greg Pak: 33:03

Well, it would have been Peanuts. Uh the uh my mom had the old faucet paperbacks, little, small pocket paperbacks that had compilations of the old cartoons, like the classic ones, mostly from the 50s and early 60s. And my sisters and I used to just read those obsessively. And um, I think a huge amount of like my sense of humor from that. Certainly, uh, you know, like just the my love of comics and love of the love of drawing, yeah, I'm sure was inspired by that. Um even like it's it's kind of funny, even just like kinds of phrasing, you know, like I like peanuts was sort remarkable at the time because it was a thing aimed at Um, and it was just full of just really colloquial language. Like he wouldn't write going to, he'd write gonna, You know what I mean? Like you you don't you you wouldn't get that as much in a kid's book uh around that time where the language is a little more um grounded, tended to be a little more formal, you know what I mean? But it was right there in the comics, and that's that that of very sort of real, everyday kind of language and the you know, the rhythms of language are fantastic. I think also uh it sounds funny, but uh Charles Schultz is uh people don't talk about his lettering as much as they His lettering is just astounding. It's just astounding. Yeah, the way he's you know, he's using different size different style, you know, different, different size letters, different styles of lettering for like volume and for and and um it's just you know, it's it's brilliant. Even like, I mean, you know, sometimes Charlie Brown's bad or whatever, anybody's feeling bad, and they're just on the street and the and their so their word balloon just has like a little scribble dark cloud in it. You know what I mean? Like stuff like that is so you know, out-of-the-box creative, making the most of the comics medium, and it's but at the time, it's so clean and subtle, you know what I mean? Like you know exactly what it is, it's so elegant, but it's like he's taking big swings all the time.

Badr Milligan: 35:07

It has like a layer of cohesion to everything, it just it all together from what you're seeing, what's supposed to be uh, you know, uh depicted, emoted. I didn't even think about it like that.

Greg Pak: 35:15

Yeah, I mean, he's creating, I mean, his lettering soundtrack too. You know what I mean? It's like it's like you you hear the valve, you hear the and everything. It's just it's I mean, it's just great storytelling and storytelling. It's all of it put together. And I think um having just like spent hours and hours and hours reading those things as a kid, I think it just kind of almost without my even realizing it, just kind of became part of how I thought about things.

Badr Milligan: 35:38

So, in addition to Charles Schultz and and Peanus, was any other comics or comic creators that that maybe you that made you think like, oh, this I want to do I want to write comics, I want to get into it.

Greg Pak: 35:51

Well, I um I mean my first Marvel comic was this uh uh Marvel Treasury Edition Spider-Man book, which was this big I love treasury editions.

Badr Milligan: 36:02

I've got a whole box of them in my storage unit, like all the classics.

Greg Pak: 36:07

I think in 1975, but it had like uh, you know, like I I you I and I read and reread that thing forever, and I would, I know, I would draw and sort of like, you know, like study you know, how Romito was drawing Spider-Man and how, you how did he shave the knee and all that kind of stuff? So um, but also that that had like, if I'm remembering right, that book also had a like a little thing. It had all these little extras in it, you know what I mean, you know, Spidey's utility belt. And then it also had a thing talking about like, you know, sometimes ask, why do we, you know, when Peter's using a sense, why do we do this? And then they show this thing of like, you know, Peter with half of his face uh in a spider mask with the little squigglies alongside it. And they're like, because that helps to that visually tells you know, like uh makes it real. And then like they show two different versions, one with kind of mask and the squiggly thing, and one of him just of like tilting his head to say, which one do you think is effective or whatever? And um to explain why they do it that way. And uh and that was like making transparent these choices, know what I mean? These creative uh drawing choices and storytelling choices. Um so I think that you know that kind of thing had an on me. I certainly also was really inspired by Stan Sakai's series. Um, and uh I remember pouring over that in high school and kind of studying the way he because he, you know, like those books have this very clean line art, black and white line art. I I studied that to kind of think about how he was indicating all kinds of different things with just lines, you know I mean? Like he's not doing like charcoal shading and all of that. He's just drawing lines. So like studying like the way he drew clouds, you know what I mean? It's just uh and in indicating something, you know, that no solidity with just with literal lines. So that was really inspiring.

Badr Milligan: 37:57

Greg, how so how come you didn't get go in the the art instead of Oh well I did, I mean I cartooned forever.

Greg Pak: 38:04

Um and I still do it, actually. I just finished uh a uh I did a I did a strip for uh friend's book about uh Matt Bohr's cartoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I uh I I just like my you know, my the way my hand to draw um is is you know, and you gotta leave into that. That's that's who you are, you know, and that's how you're like um my like the way I draw is uh is for lack of a better word, cartoonier than like the a lot of the stories that I write. You know, like I'm too cartoony to be uh you know a Marvel Comics superhero artist, you know. Uh and also I can't draw anything in the world. You know what I mean? Like there are artists who can like every artist I work with can literally draw anything, you know, and I can draw a stuff, but I'm like, I I can't, I don't know if I can draw a Buick Regal, a 1982 Buick Regal, and make it look really, you know, really accurate as a 1982 Buick Regal. I can draw, I can draw a pretty good horse. You know what I mean? But like, you know what I mean? Like I I have, you know, I got it's gonna be a kind of cartoony horse, but it's gonna look all right.

Badr Milligan: 39:13

You know, I can draw a really good Western that's outside with no buildings, no cars, anything like that.

Greg Pak: 39:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You know, like I could draw, I can draw, I can draw a uh a monster attacking Lionel, you know what I mean?

Badr Milligan: 39:25

Like I can do that, but have you ever done like a uh a sketch, a blank cover? Has anyone ever asked you to do that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg Pak: 39:32

Oh, cool. Oh, all the all the time. Because I I also do like little just cartoony hulk faces and stuff in people's books, and people kind of dig that and know about that. So they'll yeah, they they will ask me to do that kind of I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty good at that, but uh but I I I I defer to the pros. If somebody can do a part of the job better than me, it's like I'm very happy with it.

Badr Milligan: 39:51

Well, you know what? Speaking about the pros in in art, man, I mean, uh, you know, like we've said it, you've you've had a 20 plus, 25 plus year career, and you've worked with some incredible, incredible artists. I mean, from Jay Lee, David Finch, you mentioned uh Carlos Pagalawan. Um, is there any what artists come to mind when you think about that have just like completely wowed you that that were such a maybe a positive working experience? I'm just curious what what artists come to mind when you think about like your time in comics?

Greg Pak: 40:20

I mean, Tak Niyazawa was amazing to work with because we Amadeus Show together, and there was just something that there. Um, I think there's I I don't, you know, I don't know what is, but there's there's there's some kind of way in which I read something and then you know I give it to Tuck, it's he it's like he just dips right into my brain and he knows what that body language is. Maybe it's because we're both like, I don't know, because he's like Asian Canadian, you know what I mean? I'm Asian American. Maybe there's something about because some of the because a of the characters we've done together have been Asian Maybe there's something about just like that family in the body language of all of them, like between the kids the parents and all that. Yeah, he just he just gets it. So um, so that I mean, talk has always just been a huge to work on that.

Badr Milligan: 41:07

Can I represent uh talk is the artist and the of Met Cadet, right? Okay, exactly. If I may give you some praise here, I read uh so in for this, I not only read the the four words for the new Planet Hulk, but I read Met Cadet U, at least the the six issues, because I was like, well, let me give his his creator owned stuff a shot. Dude, I loved it. It was uh thank awesome. And the art, the art, yeah. Um one of my favorite parts of that, it's a very minor but anytime that the uh um the kids are in in the the suits or are in the mech and they're you know, and panels where they're communicating while they're in the mech, someone, you know, you guys are have this like circle with the uh image of the equity and the person the little boat. I thought that was a really cool way of expressing, like, hey, here's who's talking. You know, it's the word balloon isn't attached to the because the mech obviously can't speak, but it's the inside. I thought that is such a cool, just minor way of dialogue. I thought it was really cool.

Greg Pak: 42:06

Yeah, it was. I mean, that that that was a really complicated thing to do it's yeah, exactly as you say, it's like kids inside their and you're cutting between, like, yeah, when you want talk, you want to see the kids' face, but how are you where they are? Like, how does that work spatially? And yeah, I I can't remember that. May have been me in the script saying, hey, let's do a you know, kind of pop-up bubble next to the next to the but talk totally killed it with the execution of that. And then Simon Bolin was the letterer on that. And huge credit to Simon because Simon figured out like how differentiate the different dialogue balloons, and it because sometimes the kids are outside of the mechs yelling at each other, and that's a different style balloon from when inside the mechs, you know what I mean? And that if they're inside the cockpit and you're seeing them, that's a different kind of balloon than from if you're outside of the mech and you're hearing their voice come from the and then the mechs themselves have voices. So it's there's a lot of different things going on here. And and he figured out a you know, a subtle different way for each one of those things to work. I mean, the coloring too, uh, Charlie Farrell's color book. Oh, yeah. Because she just, like in in that first issue, she just came back and you know, it's just kind of it's about a kid who is he's a janitor, he works at this this this school. Salt of the edge. Yeah, exactly. Just a regular kid, but he's the janitor, he's not a And all the all the students of the school are like the military academy kids, and they're they're in the school that's set up to next to a place where giant robots, mysterious giant robots from outer space, come every few years and bond with So the military's built this academy to prep these kids to the kids who, you know, who are adopted or bond with these so they can incorporate them into the military industrial right? So, but but the feeling of the whole vibe at the beginning is this kind of aching loneliness and longness. From this janitor's kid who's like, you know, meant for things. Yeah, and he's, you know, he's I mean, it's kind of Luke right? Because it's sort of like this desert, desert background, and he's kind of like biking mono. You know, funny, I'm only realizing this right now as we talk about it. But you know, he's biking home with this, you know, landscape behind him, and he's like this little dude, and it's lonely. But and so Triona came in and and put and did these gorgeous, like pink skies. You know what I mean? And she gave it this whole like sunset evening feel to the thing. And it's it's uh but it but the colors are so bold and yet um evocative. Like it maintains that tone in a really unexpected way. I remember when I first saw it, I was like, what's this? And then I was like almost immediately like, oh my god, this just works, you know. It was so but but that a long story, long way around of that she also was figuring out different lighting for like the kids inside the cockpit, you know. So the kids inside the cockpit have kind of a tint to them and you know, coordinating all that. And then that also let us give their their their intercom separate different colors, you know, so we can keep them

Badr Milligan: 45:11

So yeah, no, it's awesome. And it turns out I still got like six more issues to And then uh looking forward to it. It's a really fun book. Sweet. All right, uh, Greg, I think I'm gonna use this to pivot to our our main event. It's been a lot of fun catching up on some of this old But I want to talk about your your newest project out. It's uh Thundercast number one. You're the writer on this series alongside artists. Let me see. Uh uh, you got uh David, is it cousins? Cousins? I think I I've been saying cousins. I hope that's right. I just like saying cousins because it's a really cool last name. Yeah. So you got uh uh David Cousins on art. Uh let me see who else. Let me pull up the the full solicitation. Igor Monty on Igor Monty on Colors. Uh the series comes out uh first. Oh my internet is acting super slow. Okay, the first issue comes out October 7th, final order cutoff for those interested. It is Monday, September 14th. So please do uh get your pre-orders in. But this series, uh, from my understanding, it's a it's a brand new jump and on point. It continues directly after what Declan Shelvy and Drew Moss and the rest of the team have been building with the prior Thundercats run, which ran for 25 issues, which hella impressive. Um, and then including uh the the Thundercats crossover. So this story you're picking up after that. So uh if you don't mind, I guess setting the stage, do we find Lionel? What do we find the Thundercats uh in your story?

Greg Pak: 46:29

I mean, so Thundercats was a you know long-running uh TV show. It's had a few different incarnations started back when I was a kid in the 1980s. But all you really need to know is that it's uh that uh so the Thundercats are this species of like cat people, you people who have like tat ears and cat eyes and stuff. Um but it's uh you know, it's a it's a kind of a sci-fi story where they're at war with the mutants of of you know of uh who are attacking their home planet, and um they flee and uh like all their ships get blown up except for this one And the people on that ship are Lionel, who is the sort of prince uh of the Thundercats, of Thundera, Lord of and um, and the sort of like central court of advisors, you who are all basically superheroes, you know what I mean? They've all got their own skills. Like there's Cheetara who runs real fast, and uh uh and uh I mean it's a bunch of fun characters. They've all got like big chat names. Yeah, Panthero, who is like, you know, the the big dude, sort of the muscle, but he's also like the tech guy who like repairs all the stuff.

Badr Milligan: 47:36

Right, who's your favorite Thundercat? If I don't you'll mind me interrupting, who's your

Greg Pak: 47:39

Oh, I mean, Pantherho's just a lot of fun. I mean, Panther's all awesome because he can just um, you he's always uh uh the characters who have the little rye are always a ton of fun to write. Um but I gotta say, Lionel, I mean, Lionel's just a the the central idea with Lionel is that he's this kid. I mean, he's like 13 or something years old when they take and then they go into suspended animation to get to this place. But his particular, you know, chamber, I this is I know, but his particular chamber like malfunctions so that when they arrive, he's he's a grown, he steps out as a man, but he's still like, you know, this this kind of punk And so he's cocky and uh impulsive, and he makes all these and he's he's kind of a jerk sometimes. Um and uh and that's just uh you know, it it it's fun to I like Amadeus Chill. Like Amadeus Chill, the big thing with Amadeus is that the just cannot keep his mouth shut. If it's in his head, it's out of his mouth. You know what I mean? And that's just it's a huge amount of fun to write who behave badly, get themselves into trouble sometimes. And so Lionel's got some of that going on. So in our series, uh they've been on this new planet, for a while. Everybody hates them on this planet, all the other like because the Thundercats uh as uh like as as uh as a little of their own did some bad things to other people over the including exiling a lot of people to Third Earth before they got their as refugees. And um, and so uh so there's this sort of effort to new peace. Um, you know, to to create peace with the clans, all these clans on third earth. Uh and uh something unexpected happens and uh and chaos And uh who is the feral king? That's the big question uh for the first issue.

Badr Milligan: 49:28

Well, look, uh judging from the the solicitation, I read the full thing, but it sounds like uh you're taking Lionel off his pedestal as a ruler. Uh there's uh you're you're asking if if monarchy itself is flawed, and and there's a lot of feels like a lot of political uh uh topics and and some real life uh that you're addressing. What made you want to take a classic 80s fantasy action cartoon and give it like real political weight? I mean, like I said, if you read the solicitation, you tell like, okay, this is gonna talk about some serious in terms of you know uh diplomacy, democracy, all that.

Greg Pak: 50:00

Yeah, I mean, I uh the the times call for what they call for, you know what I mean? Um, but it's also just I mean, it's it's good fun stuff. Uh Nate Cosby, uh, who is the editor of Thundercats, actually, I worked with him on Planet Hulk back in the day. He was the assistant editor on Planet Hulk with when Tio was running that show. And so, you know, he knew that I could he knew that I had a attraction to sort of like big fantasy stories and and world building, which is what we're doing here. Um, and uh um and this kind of story, you know, where you know, you've got this central, you know, uh storyline of this, you know, this boy king and this this monarchy and clashing clans. Um it just feels like it's a great time to kind of tear into that a little bit to kind of figure out if that's you know, is is this uh you know, like like how valid, you know, like are we gonna celebrate a boy king like ruling over a bunch of and kicking ass and just doing that indiscriminately? Or are we gonna we're gonna pick that apart a bit and see what's really going on here and and and take these um seriously and take their emotional lives seriously and the you know the political, you know, the social and ramifications of what they do and and the uh and the moral of what they do seriously, you know? Um so I think it's a huge amount of fun. There's there's almost it's these books are packed with Uh David Cousins is killing it. Uh he's a big Thundercats fan, old school Thundercats fan. He loves the show, he loves the characters, and you just that coming through. And I think he's just thrilled to be doing new stuff with because we're really taking big swings. If you if you like the original show too, I think it'll just because in the original show, like it was they they they made like 200 something episodes. I don't even remember, but um, but they did everything. Like whatever they wanted to do, they did. They would uh like they did a freaking pirate episode. They did like uh, you know, like a like a kind of oh my they I mean so many different genres they're just They got like little cyborg bears, you know what I mean? Like they like like there's just so much loopy stuff happen in this world. And um, I felt like they they were swinging big every time. And uh, and so we're we're we're we're doing this in that same spirit. We're just you know, like this is a third world, third earth is a place where all kinds of stuff can happen. There's lots of uncharted territory, and uh, and we're gonna have a lot of fun with it. So I hope you all did enjoy. I'm curious.

Badr Milligan: 52:30

What was what was the handoff from uh from Declan and Drew Moss like? Because I you know, I mentioned like they had been, you know, they they had been building something pretty big 25 issues of Thundercast. Like I said, there was a really big crossover of the Like, I'm always curious, and then now you and and Cousins come in and you guys are taking the baton. Brand new number one. I'm always curious, like, what is the handoff like? Like, do you guys have multiple meetings? Uh, how does that go?

Greg Pak: 52:56

Well, Nate, our editor, is really the the go-between, and sort of like the one who's who's maintaining all of that. I mean, I read every other, you know, I read all the all previous issues and all the minis and everything. And they, you know, like they've done like, yeah, I mean, and and Drew did this incredible epic story, right? And uh, and if you like that story, it's it's all all that and all of that is setting up everything that happens in this story. Uh so those, you know, all the like Calica, who's a huge new character that they introduced, is playing a big, big this story. And uh, and they explored a number of very key points of between the uh the mutants or the mutants and the uh and the Thundercats, and uh and that stuff is informing everything doing. So um, I mean, the the ideal way, you know, like with this of these trade-offs happen in comics all the time, you know, like it uh I've had books passed to me and I've passed on to other people. And I mean, from my point of view, what you hope for is um uh whether you're on the giving or receiving end of that, you hope that uh whatever came previously is is respected and that that that that you know that carries through and that it it um, but also that the that the new story gets to go and spread its own wings and do its own thing, you know what I mean? And uh I I mean that the Hulk is sort of a glorious example that, and that like so many different people have taken the in so many different directions, and yet it's still the character, you know? And uh so you know, some stories lend themselves that more others, but um or some characters, just the dynamic of it, the Hulk's whole transformation thing means that he in a lot of different ways, and that's really cool for the really cool for all the creators who work on them. So that's kind of baked into the whole premise of the With yeah, with this Thundercats book, though, I think I think we're doing something, you know, touchful that that you know clicks on all those different levels, like Dedu and Planet Hulk did.

Badr Milligan: 55:01

You know, uh staring at the cover for the first issue, know, there's a line about, you know, the the Pharaoh and you know Lionel is looking like brawlic and on this cover. And it got me thinking, you know, you you've of comic history's most famously like misunderstood between the Hulk as well as Star Vader. It looks like you're dealing with another monster here. I got what draws you to characters struggling with like this dark side?

Greg Pak: 55:26

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's uh it's there's just a lot of juice there. I mean, the the whole misunderstood monster thing. I think you know, I think it comes from a couple of things. One is just like monsters are cool. I've always loved monster movies. Like I I always love monster movies more than horror you know. Like when I was a kid, I wasn't into slasher movies, but I as heck was gonna go see any monster movie I could, you know. I I don't even know where that comes from, but uh monsters are cool, dinosaurs are cool, you know, like giant robots are But there's there's also something about the you know, like I mean, I'm sure that growing up as the half-Asian kid in Texas meant that I, you know, kind of developed an uh appreciation for stories about underdogs and know. I mean, I think uh honestly stories about outsiders and appeal to literally everybody. Like everybody feels that kind of, oh, I'm you know, I'm a I'm different, you know, just about everybody. Even like, you know, I probably even the most popular, you stereotypical jock or cheerleader feels that way. It's like, oh, I'm the little popular cheerleader, thinks I'm a weirdo, you know what I mean? Like, like I'm sure that's the feeling, right? Um at some point. So, so that kind of, you know, difference, you know, because everybody is everybody's a freak. You know, there's no such thing as normal. We're all like weirdos, and and that's cool. And uh, but but so monster stories have always appealed to me because it's like um, you know, like like seeing things from the other person's side has always been compelling to me. And that's the most extreme example of that.

Badr Milligan: 56:57

I think they did make a movie about a monster cheerleader. I think it was called Jennifer's Body, starring Megan

Greg Pak: 57:02

Oh, right, right, right, right. I never saw that. I gotta see that. People people speak very highly of that. Karen Karen Cosamo directed that, I think. Yeah, yeah. He's uh an awesome director.

Badr Milligan: 57:12

So somebody Greg, I want to pivot here and and uh take a break from asking the questions. This is a segment I like to call the short box friends family segment. It's a the part of a show where I shut up for a minute let someone else ask the questions. Today's question comes from Ben Kingsbury. He is the owner of Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. It's an intro, not only the longest-running supporter the podcast, but also the best damn comic shop here in Florida. I want to play Ben's voicemail for you, okay? Here we go.

Ben Kingsbury: 57:43

Hey Greg, I'm Ben Kay, owner of Gotham City Limit down in sunny Jacksonville, Florida. Thanks so much for taking some time to be here today. So every time I get to come on and ask a question of an awesome creator, it reminds me how fortunate and I am that I opened a comic shop almost nine years ago. Because I really wanted to bring some of the that influenced me as a youngster to a new generation. I mean, that's a big part of why I started this place to begin with. Gotham City Limit isn't just a retail comic shop, it's throwback to all of the awesome properties that made my childhood awesome, and hopefully we can pass on to a generation. So my question kind of stems from that. In October, you've got a young Luke Skywalker tearing Beggar's Canyon and a brand new Thundercats number one supposed to be a jumping on point, the same month. From my perspective, behind the counter, that means I'm selling it to the guy and girl who grew up with a cartoon just like me and the kid who just found it last week. So, what's your trick to writing a licensed first issue that doesn't feel like homework for either one of Well, I'll leave you here to answer. Thanks again for what you do. We literally couldn't do it without you. And remember, short box nation, and we'll always take it to the limit. Peace.

Greg Pak: 59:08

That is awesome. Well, Ben, thank you because we literally couldn't do it you. You know what I mean? Like comic shops are the lifeblood of the industry, as I say. Um, like you keep us alive, keeping you you you you make for us to keep keep keep cranking along. So thank you. Um, and that's a great question. Uh I yeah, I I hate it when uh when I when I feel like I to do homework in order to understand the story. You know what I mean? Like I want to be able to pick it up and start from page one and just keep run. You know, this is one of the reasons why Planet Hulk, I has has lasted the way it has or why it's resonated, because you l all you have to know is, I mean, you you almost don't to know anything. You just have to know like the like the Hulk is some dude who turns into the Hulk when he gets angry. You know what I mean? Like that's all you really need to know. Yeah, and you can you can just you can just rock it from Um so I mean, you know, we're striving to do that with every every first issue um and with every new story. Uh uh I mean some are some are trickier than others because there's just a whole lot of uh explanation or backstory you do. But we, you know, we we have our our little tricks and of the trade to try to seamlessly get you up to speed here there. And I I think we're doing that pretty successfully with these books, and uh I sure hope they appeal. I mean, with the uh the Beggar's Canyon book that you we have the advantage of like introducing a very young Luke So it's uh, you know, it's somebody who is, you know, who's a lot of things for the first time. So that makes it a very easy entry point. Uh and kind of all you have to know with that is that Luke uh, you know, he's a underdog who's growing up on this planet of Tatooine, getting teased by his friends, and of flying away someday. And we'll see whether or not that works out for him. Yeah, and then with the Thundercats, it's uh we kind of went over some of that earlier in the episode. But um, but yeah, I think I my hope is that uh, you know, uh an intrigued 12-year-old can pick this up and get sucked in and and read it alongside their, you know, their their their pop who may have uh grown up with the cartoons.

Badr Milligan: 1:01:11

Greg, I'm I'm curious. When's the last time you've had a chance to go into a shop? Uh or in and what did you buy?

Greg Pak: 1:01:17

Oh, um well, the last thing I bought in a comic shop was a box because I needed some extra short boxes. Hey, there we go. I was just at Flame Con, uh the uh LGBTQ. It's uh here in New York. Uh uh Yeah, one of the LGBTQ Comic-Cons. Um, and uh saw some friends there, and I bought what did buy? I bought um the Galaxy book, and I bought I I bought a big of books that I haven't had a chance to read yet. Um but it was cool because I got to buy them directly from the uh uh the creators. Um so yeah, it was it's Galaxy the Prettiest Star, uh Jadzia Axelrod's book. So I got to buy Jadzia's book, and I bought uh one of the books from Erica Henderson. Nice. And uh I think it was her, yeah, I bought one of her Poison Ivy books because she's doing this new Poison Ivy series. Um and I bought Ethan Aldridge's uh newest graphic novel, which is just gorgeous looking. Let me let me dig up the name of that because I've forgotten the name. Um and these are all like totally different styles of book, it was just a lot of fun to, you know what I mean. Like that's always the thrill of comics, is that there's for everybody and they're all different kinds of stories. And it's sable, a ghost story, is the is Ethan's book. It's got like a, you know, like the the that kind of animal, the sable, which is sort of like a uh a ferret kind of a white, white sort of like in the weasel family. But that's like the it's a it's a it's an it's a humanoid Um I and I think it's like a mystery story. It looks like a kind of almost Ellery Queen, not Ellery Yeah. Encyclopedia Brown sort of style. Um, I think it's probably creepier than that.

Badr Milligan: 1:03:00

I really like this range of comics that you picked up this uh uh convention. I which has now got me interested to hear if you had to give a Mount Rushmore of your all-time favorite comics, or maybe the comics that come to mind that make up the Pac DNA. Like what are some of your all-time favorites or most comics?

Greg Pak: 1:03:20

I'm gonna I'm gonna say uh uh the peanuts. There we go. Peanuts that we talked about before, uh Usaji Yajimbo that talked about before, Linda Berry's um comics, her uh she did these like weekly comics um uh for the alt-weekly newspapers back in the day. Linda Berry's just an uh incredible genius.

Badr Milligan: 1:03:41

Is it called these Ernie Pooks Comeek?

Greg Pak: 1:03:44

Yeah, yeah, yes, Ernie Pooks Comics. Um and uh she had this she had this character Marlis, who's you know, kind of weird little kid who's like just doing stuff, like living out of a trailer, I think, and all this of stuff. But they're just great. They're just like it's kind of almost like you know, like peanuts. You know what I mean? It's kind of like grungy, grungy kid stories. And uh I just loved those when I was growing up, uh reading Um, in terms of the Nashka of the Valley of Winds is huge for me, one of the greatest comics ever created. Umyazaki, uh who you all know from you know uh all the um, made this comic, which is just tremendous. Uh I mean, in terms of like superhero comics, uh Batman One is sort of forever got a huge impact on me. The Bill Mantelo's Micronauts series was my favorite I was uh growing up. Someone my dad is rooting you on. He's like, hell yeah, it was a micronauts love. Exactly, right? Um, so yeah, you know, it's a it's a big range.

Badr Milligan: 1:04:50

I uh can I say I I did not know that Nashka of the of the Wind started as a manga. I'm so used to just seeing just the film, but uh uh I'm looking at the the Wikipedia entry in this the to the first volume is my I mean, no, no surprise. Uh, but wow.

Greg Pak: 1:05:07

You learned it's incredibly it's long, it's so much than the movie. It's got like this. I mean, it it does all this big stuff that I like. It's that big epic storytelling, but with a central with a real clear emotional struggle and story, and um inventive, and it also has this huge, you know, it's like with real questions of environmental destruction and between cultures, and like it like it's it's uh it's like a lot of Miyazaki stories, it's there are a whole lot of conflicts, but it's unclear who the who is actually a villain, you know what I mean? Like it's it's there it's it's really showing um that kind of human struggle and shades of gray, which is just good to know.

Badr Milligan: 1:05:53

I'm gonna check this out. No, this ain't thank you for the recommendation. All right, second and last question for you, Greg. When when you think about your Your time, I mean, this tenured career in comics. Uh, you know, I we talked about some of your artistic but I'm curious about what names come to mind, or who stands out when you think about mentors in the game? Like, is there a name or two that come to mind that were a huge help to you? Maybe an inspiration, maybe like gave you some real life advice to you know navigate comics?

Greg Pak: 1:06:23

Yeah. Well, um, I mean, all my editors, you know what I'm saying? Because I came into comics out of film, and so I was working with editors uh particularly early on who were like, kind of like uh helping me out as I was um, you know, figuring out how to write comics as opposed to just film scripts. Uh so you know, I've got a huge appreciation for those those folks who were, you know, kind of uh standing by me, giving me a shot, and and helping me as I made that transition. Um and also, I don't know, like I mean, there's people like Venice, who's my editor on Planet Hulk, who you know was I I don't I think he would he would not describe himself as my which he probably wanted to think of himself as just my but he had like you know, like decades of experience in comics before before me. And so I just learned a lot from him. I learned a lot from my buddy Fred Van Lantic, uh, who like we're co-writers, we're really colleagues, but but you he also just had tons of experience in the in the industry. He understood and he understands the comic industry in on a deep sort of historical level, more so than most you know what I mean? And so if I remember any kind of question like that, that you know Fred's the dude. In terms of like just like you know, art and storytelling, I I I want to give it and this is a small this seems like a thing, but Klaus uh Klaus Jansen, who is uh you know, the famous um of Frank Miller and also you know incredible artist in his own right, um I got to I interview him for a book that Fred and I were co-writing about making comics, uh about you know, and because it's like you know, in different stages I've had I kind of learned about the different parts of comic making. And and it was just really you know, I had this just hour, maybe hour and a half long conversation with Klaus where he blew my mind talking about different kinds of inking and like line weight and just like made it so you know, and talked like you know, some some artists like Mobius just use the line weight for everything, and then other artists using different line weight to create depth, and that both valid choices, but it's like you're making, but that's of the storytelling is what kind of you know, like how uh you know, like just line weight, and that to just like like that, you know, like little moments that colleagues in will take to to help you understand stuff. Um sometimes they would they don't even know what they're you know, like they're not they're not like sitting there to like mentor you, but my god, they are, you know what I mean? And and uh so I'm incredibly grateful. I mean, I'm I've there's a million other things like that where we're fellow comic creators who just like I've just much from from my colleagues.

Badr Milligan: 1:09:08

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better person to give you crash course or speak on the topic of inking than clouds. That's awesome. It's amazing. All right. Last question for you, Greg, and we'll wrap up. What else are you working on? We talked about Thundercatch, which is coming out in You mentioned the new uh um upcoming graphic novel Star Wars Tales from the Outer Rim, The Legend of Beggar's Wow, that is a mouthful. That also comes out in October. Uh you seem like a very busy man. I mean, when you got 600 plus uh uh writing credits uh to your name, you seem like a very busy man. Do you have anything else uh that you're working on?

Greg Pak: 1:09:41

Yeah, let me plug a couple things. Um I'm doing a uh I'm I'm writing the Predator versus Planet of the Apes comic book for Marvel, which is incredibly fun, uh, drawn by the great Alan Robinson, who is killing it. Uh and then I'm uh I'm doing a lot. I mean, I'm doing some stuff I can't talk about yet, sadly. Um I'm I'm continuing to do little short stories for EC the Oni Comics revival of EC Comics. So these short little sort of amoral horror stories. I guess they do have morals, but like people get like the the people get killed. You know, like somebody's always somebody, somebody's well, always gonna die. It's a very dark moral. You know what I mean? It's like you you act like a jerk, you're gonna get killed. But um, but they're just really fun, you know, nasty little stories, which is a different thing from what I have associated with, so they've been a blast. Um and then I'm doing a ton of uh of activist and political including making zines, which are sort of comics related. Um for a good like like here's here's one, it's called Hands Off Our Vote. Um, and uh this is uh done in conjunction with the folks at Off New York, um, and it's about election protection because we are coming up on uh these new, you know, the midterms, and so these different groups are sort of reaching out to to make sure they're registered and to prepare them for if the uh the Trump regime decides they're gonna try to uh people's votes or or mess with the vote. And uh so I'm you know doing that kind of stuff. Um, doing a lot of work with this group called Comics You Google Comics Action, you'll find this uh group of uh New Yorkers uh who work in the comics industry who also care about the world, and we're doing all kinds of different projects, projects. So check us out.

Badr Milligan: 1:11:21

Look, I'm gonna say to my uh politically conscious and friends out there, uh, Greg Pac is a fantastic follow on Blue Sky, especially. You're doing you're doing the important work, Greg, and I appreciate it.

Greg Pak: 1:11:32

I appreciate you. Thank you, thank you.

Badr Milligan: 1:11:34

All right, with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast, and we just finished Greg Pock about uh his new series, Thundercats, which again uh is a new chapter of Thundercats. It's written by Greg Pac. It's got art by David Cousins. The comic hit shops Wednesday, October 7th, in the form of Thundercats number one. Final order cutoff is this Monday, September 14th. So if you want to ensure that you get a copy, which absolutely should, go to your local comic shops, tell them to put it on your poll list, pre-order the comic. Once again, Thundercats number one, October 7th. I'm gonna have links to Greg's social media as well as website in the show notes. So you can uh follow him, you can keep an eye out for announcements and projects. Do all this stuff, right? You know what you need, you know what needs to be just do it. Greg, best of luck on everything. Thanks for stopping by. I really appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.

Greg Pak: 1:12:24

Thank you so much. Huge pleasure. Uh come back anytime, let me know.

Badr Milligan: 1:12:27

Oh yeah. And there you have it. That's our show this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you're feeling good about this episode, if you it, hey, do me a favor, leave a five-star rating and on your favorite podcast app of choice. It is a small thing for you, but would mean the world to me. All right, you can find the short box podcast on all apps and YouTube where you can watch the unedited versions of these episodes and interviews. And I guess I should remind everyone that the short box podcast is part of the short box entertainment company. The podcast is hosted, produced, and edited by Now, if one episode a month is not enough for you and you want more short box content, if you want bonus episodes, maybe you want to check out the spin-off podcast that do with Drew every single month. It's called Safer Podcast, or consider becoming a box patroni, aka a member of the short box Patreon For as little as five bucks a month, and I've got cheaper tiers than that, but for five bucks a month, you get some really awesome perks and rewards. You get early access to everything I record, you get free episodes, you get bonus episodes that don't make to the main feed. You get to take part in the monthly comic book giveaway contest I've been doing where every month I post and away some really awesome comics for my personal If that sounds like something you would like, go to slash the short box, check out the tiers, check out the rewards, and I hope to count you among the short box among the short box patroni family. Speaking of which, big shout out to all the existing box patronies, including Adam Jatani, Amanda Marin, Ben O'Grady, BJ Kicks, Blake Simone, Life Rumleaf, Brandon Holder, Brandon Paul, Brian Brumley, Chris Dave Wilson, David Morales, Generation Jaguar, Greg Henry Hernandez, Herschel, Jay Sinner, Jeff Frebbett, Cabanatan, JJ Mack, John Lukes, Jose Seppovita, Corey Kyle Conway, Kyle Willis, Mac Jacobson, Marissa Nick Wagner, Nick Underwood, Ryan Isaacson, Sherman Stephen Gammett, T Mix, The Wait For It Podcast, Tony Uppy, Walter Gantt, and last but not least, Warren Hey, much love to all of the Patronis. Thank you so much for your support. Means the world to me. I'm serious about that. If you're still listening, big shoutouts to you for it to the very, very, very end of the show. I appreciate it. I'll catch you next week. Got a brand new episode in the works. In the meantime, take care of yourself and continue to mine and yours short box. Peace.