Badr Milligan 0:00

In this episode of the Short Box.

Greg Pak 0:02

Comics has its own sort of beats and breakdowns. And at the end of every page, you want to have some little cliffhanger that makes you turn the page. And at the end of a comic, if you're writing monthly comics at the end of that issue, you definitely want to have something that brings people back to the next issue. Your goal in a movie is to keep people sitting and watching and not clicking away. Your goal in a comic is people to literally turn the page.

Badr Milligan 1:18

Now, prior to breaking into comics, Greg Pak had a couple of award-winning short films under his belt, like Robot Stories. His first official comic work would come in 2004 in the form of a four-issue warlock series alongside artist Charlie Adler. And since then, he's gone on to write over 600 plus comic books. That's a whole lot of word bubbles, that's a whole lot of text, including Marvel's Blockbuster stories, Planet Hulk, and World War Hulk. He's also written Met Cadet U for Boom Studios, which later became an animated TV series for Netflix, and he did a record-setting 50 plus issue run on Marvel's Star Wars Darth Vader series. Fast forward to today, and Greg will be the new writer of Dynamite Entertainment's Thundercats line of comics, starting Thundercats number one, which is hitting shops on Wednesday, October 7th. Greg will be joined by artist David Cousins and colorist Igor Monte for a fresh new chapter in the Thundercats history books. So we've got plenty to talk about between the new Thundercat book, all the good stuff he's written at Marvel and other places, and we'll probably be taking a lot of detours as we just go over his life and crypto. But before we get started on that, big shout outs to our sponsor and supporters, including Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. It's not only the longest running sponsor of the podcast, but it's also the best damn comic shop in Northeast Florida. If you live in Jax, you can go visit them today on Southside Boulevard and see for yourself why the shop has just won another Best of Florida award. And if you don't live close by, well, good news. You can buy comics from them online at GottThemCityLimit.com. I also want to personally thank all of you short box patronies out there, okay? Aka the loyal supporters over on the short box Patreon. Thank you, thank you for your support, and thank you for uh encouraging me, all right, motivating me to keep this thing going. If you enjoy the show and you want to be counted among the short box elite, consider becoming a short box patroni at patreon.com/slash the short box for less than five bucks a month, which is uh at this point cheaper than a single Marvel comic nowadays. Comics are expensive, but for less than five bucks a month, you get to listen to bonus episodes that don't make it on the main feed. You get early access to everything I do before anyone else. And probably most importantly, you get to be immortalized in short box history with a shout out by name at the end of every episode. Once again, check it out for yourself at patreon.com slash the shortbox. Now, without further ado, let's bring on our guest of honor today. Calling in all the way from New York is comic writer Greg Pac. Here we go. Okay, 0.1 seconds slow. Hello, Greg. Studio audience. Studio audience. There's a lot of people in this small apartment. I mean a lot of incredible. On the other side, you wouldn't believe how many people I can cram. Greg, thanks for being here. Um I'm excited to chat with you today. Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I was uh I was telling you prior to us hitting record um that you are you are a writer, you're a name that has that I follow, that has followed me throughout my entire comic book journey. I was telling you that uh Planet Hulk is one of, is literally the first comic book I put on my poll list when I got my own poll list. Uh at the age, I don't know, I was like 16, 17. And my dad took me to this shop that I cannot recall for the last, it's no longer here, it hasn't been around for a while here in Jacksonville. But uh he took me to a comic shop and um he was like, Yeah, my son wants to start one of those poll list things. And um I ended up putting Planet Hulk on there and then uh Jeff John's Green Lantern. I don't recall what else was on there, but I know those two were. And I'll never forget just being blown away. I mean, it was my first time like following new and current comics. Prior to that, I was like back issue digging. I was reading my dad's old books. I mean, it was like his newest stuff was like, you know, this is like 2005, six, I think. And I mean, like my my dad had stopped collecting new comics for a while. So I mean, like the newest thing to me was like Jim Lee's 90s X-Men was like the newest thing I read. So yeah, I say all that to say that um, yeah, man, it's it's crazy to say to think that, you know, this many years forward I'd be having a chance to sit here and talk with you.

Greg Pak 5:38

And it's wild, you know, that happens the older I get, the more often people tell me that. Uh and so I'm I'm always thrilled to hear it and then also scratching my head, scratching my gray beard as I hear it.

Badr Milligan 5:49

Your knee your knee starts hurting a little bit. You're like, uh, exactly. Don't say it's too late.

Greg Pak 5:53

Oh my gosh. I uh yeah, I mean Planet Hoax. Now we started that thing almost 22 years ago. That's when the first no, 21 years ago. 21 years ago is when the first issue came out. So it's uh it's been quite a ride.

Badr Milligan 6:08

And uh, you know, last night I ended up um I was on Hoopla, the the library app, uh, and I saw that they had the Planet Hulk, the new Marvel Premiere Collection Planet Hulk book on there. So I ended up uh renting it from uh borrowing it. And I noticed that uh you wrote like a really cool like foreword, like a nice little introduction. I found it absolutely amazing. You were talking about, you know, righteous anger and then you know, uh transforming, you know, revenge and and and and anger into like care and you know the effects it has and like you know, just your personal experience with just you know, anger and dealing with like, you know, just those very extreme emotions. I found it really a great way to kind of revisit this story that I haven't read in a long time, but I know it deals with a lot of those topics. I I was curious, I guess, like, what's it like seeing Planet Hulk still being reprinted, still being admired, you know, being introduced for a brand new audience? You know, it's still heralded as uh one of the best Hulk stories of all time. Now it's, you know, getting this premiere collection treatment. You wrote a brand new forward for it. Well, what's it like seeing Planet Hulk still so relevant after all these years?

Greg Pak 7:20

Yeah, it's it is a wild thing. I mean, um, you never really know what's gonna take off. You know what I'm saying? Like you you put all the same kind of passion and and work into it. And sometimes certain projects, um I mean, sometimes stuff that's really great doesn't quite get the attention you, you know, it it deserves. And sometimes stuff that's maybe not so great excels a whole lot, you know what I mean? So sometimes I mean you're trying to make everything great, but um so so there's an element of chance to it and timing, you know what I mean? Some some stuff just uh, you know, like it may not be the right time, or maybe it's uh ahead of its time, or maybe it's just like the perfect time for something and the marketing just really clicks. But every once in a while, everything comes together all at the same time. And I feel like Planet Hulk is one of those books for me where it was like just in terms of just the cycle of comics and marketing, it was we we we hit at a very lucky time when people were ready to see the Hulk cut loose and be the Hulk. Yeah. And um uh because you know, there'd been other great stories that have been happening for a while, but they've been more banner-centric and and this was something fresh and new, and people were just really hungry for it. And then and then also it was feeding into Civil War, you know, which was Marvel's giant event, sort of uh the the really monstrous breakthrough event. So it it just clicked, and then everybody on the creative team, it would just be like a beautiful creative team, and we had this uh we had this little special place where we got to do our own thing without much interference, you know. We got to build this whole world and the Hulk was off planet, so we didn't have to get like a million you know approvals and permissions from people to do stuff because we weren't like interacting with everybody else's book at that point in the story. So we got to kind of just go off and do this really fun thing, and and it just hit. People just really liked it, you know, and the the it actually went up uh in circulation issue to issue, which is that comics just don't do that, you know what I mean? Like every series, like there's attrition, it always goes down. And so if something was actually selling more with each issue, that's mind-blowing. You know, it was a very lucky time. Uh I mean Carlo Pagulan and Aaron Lepresti were the main pencilers, and Chris Sotomayor was the uh colorist. And uh the covers again, uh Ladrone, Ladrone, those covers absolutely mind-blowing. And then we had all you know, we had all kinds of like artists doing stuff, you know, yeah throughout, doing a few pages here and there. We just got incredible people, like this Filipino artist Alex Nino, and uh, and of course Gary Frank did a bunch of pages. Um and it was, you know, and a gorgeous lettering from Randy Gentile and Joe Caramagna. And it was like just a tremendous team. Mark Penicchio was the editor, and he and I were just thickest thieves through that whole time. We would like I'd like go up to Midtown and we we we he'd get out of Mar the Marvel offices, we go to this dingy little pizza joint around the corner and just sit in the back and like conspire. And it was uh hugely fun time, and so yeah, we I mean sometimes it just hits like that. And so so it's it's tremendous, just the the you know, when something like that takes off and other people respond, it's just it's amazing. I mean, we were also feeding into World War Hulk, which was the next big event after Civil War, and so so that was also part of it too. It's like people knew that you know the Hulk got exiled by these annoying Marvel heroes, so-called heroes, that eventually he's gonna come back, you know what I mean, to get some revenge. And so we had this slow burn going that people really responded to.

Badr Milligan 10:44

Greg, I wanted to shift gears and ask you another question. I mentioned in the intro, you know, that stat that you've you've written over 600 comics. I actually got that stat from from your website. Do you remember what was the first one you signed for a fans?

Greg Pak 10:58

Oh. I mean, it must have been Warlock number one, uh, which was the first Marvel comic that I did. I did a signing in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the my God, what's the name of that comic book store? It's this um Millionaire Picnic, Million Year Picnic, that was it. And um uh that and that was a comic store that I had visited from time to time over the years. Uh, you know, like whenever I was in, you know, I I I because from time, you know, like with my short films and and and my feature film robot stories, I was on the road a lot and in in Cambridge and doing events and stuff. And so whenever I was there, I would like poke my head in. So it was a lot of fun doing a signing there. But I I think that was the first time I probably ever signed uh signed a comic for somebody.

Badr Milligan 11:42

I asked a couple of friends of mine, uh, I said, what comes to mind when you hear Greg Pac's name? Like what comics, what characters, or whatever it may be? And and here's a couple of the responses I got. Obviously, Planet Hulk, John Wick, you did a John Wick series. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, Agents of Atlas, uh, World War Hulk, obviously, Superman. Uh, for me, aside from Planet Hulk, uh, I'd also uh I also mentioned um Incredible Hercules at the time, too, which you co-wrote with Fred Van Lenty. Uh I had him on the show a couple uh I think either this year or last, and he had great things to say about that experience. But uh I guess what are some comics for you that you think not enough people know you wrote? Oh, or or what's a deep cut for you? Like when when a fan mentions this, you know, like, oh, you know balls, you know my story.

Greg Pak 12:26

Well, I'm always psyched when people know the creator-owned stuff. Uh so I I'm I'm pumped when they mentioned Mecha at you or uh Ronan Island, uh, which are two series I did with Boom, um, or Lawful, which is uh the third series I did with Boom. In terms of like Work for Hire stuff, there's uh yeah, there's a couple of things that I'm like this is one of the best things I ever wrote. Hardly anybody talks about it. And that's like the uh I did an internal warrior run uh for Valiant, and uh the second arc in that run was called uh the Eternal Emperor, and it was about a very old eternal warrior, uh and uh and he's like in a culture that's um rejected technology basically. Um but now there's this sort of rise of technology again, and his granddaughter is getting pulled into this, and it's this uh uh it's the story, it's a kind of gentle dread throughout the whole story, and I just felt like it worked really well. I was really happy with that.

Badr Milligan 13:24

You know, uh it's funny you bring up robot stories because I was looking to watch. I was like, oh, let me watch it, you know, uh to see like what, you know, uh let me see like this body of organs. I had no idea that you the whole film making background that you come from. So I was like, oh, let me see if I can find it. It's very hard to find online. I managed to find a digital copy somewhere, but it got me thinking, you know, you you transitioned from from filmmaking, you know, robot stories had uh had won all these awards. Um, and then it was like boom, you transition into like writing comics and you become like one of the most prolific, long-running comic writers in the industry. Uh, how did your film background shape your I don't know, your your work on comics, like the visual pacing and things like that?

Greg Pak 14:04

It all is additive, you know what I mean? Like I actually started off drawing comics as a kid, you know what I mean? So I was the the first, some of the first sort of creative work I ever did was comics. Uh, you know, I've got like a thing that a couple of things that I drew when I was like three or five or something that are still, you know, my mom held on to. They're they're they're basically comics. And um I was a kid who drew, and uh I, you know, through in high school I was drawing for the school paper and you know, cartoons for the school paper and all that kind of stuff. I love movies, and eventually I got the chance to go to film school uh after a long, you know, journey of a lot of other things. But when I had got the opportunity to talk to folks at Marvel after robot stories came out, it just was a natural segue. Just because I had uh I'd grown up reading and writing and drawing comics or reading and drawing comics, and then you know, I'd spent all this time making films, but both film and comics are visual storytelling, you know what I mean? Like and and they're both dramatic storytelling in the sense that you know people differentiate between didactic and dramatic storytelling or whatever. Like in a novel, you can explore somebody's mental state just in prose for a long time. In film, theater, comics, you're relying mainly on uh visual storytelling, which means you're showing scenes, you know what I mean? You're showing everything, all the storytelling you're trying to depict through through action. You're like you're you're trying to think more visually. So it's like, you know, like he this is corny, but like he breaks the pencil, like his the pencil in his hand snaps. You know what I mean? You're trying to show a find a visual way to depict that emotional state. So having thought that way, having had to think that way as a filmmaker, set me up really well to continue doing that as a comics writer. Now, comics is a hybrid because we also have prose as part of comics. We have the written word, and so we can do all kinds of stuff. Um, also comics has its own sort of beats and and breakdowns, and and uh at the end of every page, you want to have some little cliffhanger that makes you turn the page. And and at the end of a comic, if you're writing monthly comics at the end of that issue, you definitely want to have something that brings people back to the next issue or that. And certainly there's tele that's that's a television thing, you know, that's an old film serial thing, the cliffhanger. Uh I mean you even see that in movies, you know, like the teaser scenes at the end of movies these days and all that. You want to you got something to pull people back. But but in comics like just your your goal in a movie is to keep people sitting and watching it and not clicking away, or you know what I mean? Um your goal in a comic is to get people to literally turn the page. So there's there's sort of a different dynamic in terms of um where those little breaks come, you know, like in a in a movie, like in the first minute you gotta catch somebody, in the first five minutes or so you need to have another hook. Definitely by the first half hour of a movie, that's the first act, and you really wanna, you know, set things in motion, have everything, you know, set up in a compelling way, and really propel your character on, you know, have your character plunging after whatever they need to be plunging after. Like you kind of know what the deal is there, and now you're gonna see what happens. Um, in a comic book, it's sort of like you've got that first page just to hook somebody, period. And then I think like the first four or five pages are really critical because that's what gets previewed online, you know what I mean? So you want to hook somebody there. Definitely by the end of that first issue of the comic, you gotta have a real solid hook to bring people back, you know what I mean? So that people know know what the deal is, know what we're in for, and then have this burning question of what the heck happens next so that they come back. So there's different, you know, beats where that stuff happens. Film writing is easier than comics writing. I'll just I'll just come out and say that as somebody who's done both, because in comics, the writer is responsible for thinking through more than the screenwriter. You know, the screenwriter, like the director and the DP are gonna come in and decide how the thing is shot. The screenwriter certainly can indicate that and all of that. Um, and definitely a comics writer and a comics artist are working together, but at the same time, in a typical comic book script, the writer is sort of taking a stab at setting out where the page breaks are, where the panel breaks are, and also figuring out how to depict action in a series of still images, you know, instead of like in a movie, you can have somebody teleport and they're just like you don't have to show the beginning and the end of it. Do you know what I mean? Like I like like it's all in one frame. In a movie, you can have some in a single shot, you can have somebody walk into a room, sit down, and you know, like take a sip of coffee or something like that, and then do a double take. You know what I mean? Like that's the same, that's that could be, you know, like a barely a line or two in a movie. In a comic, to do all of that might take three panels. You know what I mean? So you have to think about ways how it's actually going to be depicted in a panel. You can't have you, you you gotta limit how much happens in a single panel and figure out how that storytelling happens in still images. So that's a that's a challenge.

Badr Milligan 18:52

I'm glad you brought this up because I feel like uh the conversation about the Venn diagram of uh screenwriting, uh storyboarding, uh, and and comic books and that and that whole process has been brought up quite a bit in the in the recent episode. I had Patrick Horvath uh on the show a couple months ago, who comes from a film background. Jimmy Palmiotti, uh a few months before that also spoke. You know, he dabbles in movies as as well. So he was talking about that. And both conversations kind of brought up the point of how comic book making and the collaborative process, um, even though you know filmmaking is a collaborative process, there's a lot of different hands, a lot of different roles, and people that you work with, comic books is still like such a more direct and leaner machine.

Greg Pak 19:36

Oh, yeah.

Badr Milligan 19:37

And I guess and I understand that completely, but I I'm curious, do you ever miss it? Do you ever miss the the chaos and the the fun of of filmmaking?

Greg Pak 19:44

Well, the the thing that I miss the most from filmmaking is working with actors. That's just a glorious, exciting thing. You know what I mean? Where you know you're working with actors and suddenly the words are coming to life and you're realizing they're bringing nuances to it that you haven't seen. Or there are four lines of dialogue here we just don't even need because this look, the way you guys are exchanging covers it all. You know what I mean? Like there's that so that that kind of exciting that's that's just a thrill, you know, the all the subtleties that and uh the human subtleties that come from working with an actor. That's just amazing. At the same time, you know, like comics, I mean, well, for like film is also uh I mean, I love I love I love filmmaking, I love working on sets, but filmmaking is less conducive to a normal life than comics is. Not that comics, not that comics is the you know, the easiest thing either, but um, you know, like you can raise a kid and be around and take care of your kid and have and because you make your own schedule at comics, you know what I mean? Like you can you can really be uh like you may be up all night, but you can be there during the day. Film is like when you're coordinating a hundred people, like there's a schedule. And if you're not there, sure you're screwing the whole thing up. So uh comics is a little more conducive towards everyday life. Of course, it I mean working at the quote unquote top of the comics field uh is pays peanuts compared to working at the top of the film industry, even like you know, like it's ridiculous. But um, but you know, there's there's certain advantages. I mean, there's also that kind of funny thing where as much as we grouse about comics uh and about like the corporate side of comics, comics has generally you have a lot more freedom, creative freedom, and can do a lot, you know, can generally do more exciting things than is often possible in film. Like there's I I the way I kind of explain it sometimes is that in comics you gotta get sometimes you only have to get one other person to say, yeah, let's do that. You know, but like with a comics company, you maybe like like one of the smaller comics, even even like a Marvel or DC, you get two or three people in that company to say, yeah, that sounds awesome, you're off to the races. You're making that comic. But you want to make a movie, you gotta get a hundred people to say yes. So much race. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And there's and there's there's there's countless people who can say no at any given opportunity. And then the person who's in charge of your project, you know, like the producer, like then they get fired, and then you start all over again, or it just dies. You know what I mean?

Badr Milligan 22:12

Like it's just your support system is gone. Greg, I I guess it to bring up Marvel. I so robot stories comes out, it gets a lot of acclaim, and then you uh have a meeting of Joe Cosada to uh write Marvel, and you know, uh you got the Warlock series. I think you end up doing uh a couple of X-Men series, and then we get Planet Hulk. Uh, I've read somewhere that you signed like an exclusive deal with them for that first chunk of your career. I guess why go exclusive off the rib?

Greg Pak 22:39

Well, at the at the time, uh it wasn't from the beginning. It was like I don't know, six months in or so when I when I got they offered me the exclusive. I came with a raise and uh you know, like a nuts if I'm remembering correctly. Um for a while, um you could get health insurance through it. Um, and so that was an advantage. Later on, we got health insurance through my wife's job, so that wasn't so necessary. And then and then also, you know, later on it was like I I think it's really smart in comics to work with as many different companies as you can because you never know when you know stuff will dry up at one company. Like the maybe maybe the editors you work with move on to do different things, and and uh and so it's great to have you know uh other companies where you've got good connections and good experiences. Also, sometimes your editors go to different company uh companies, and then it's like, hey, let's work together over there. Um so yeah, I haven't been exclusive. I was an exclusive the first few years, but uh I haven't been for quite a while, actually, for like seven years or so. I think I think around 2011 or so, 2012 maybe that I stopped. I can't remember.

Badr Milligan 23:45

I got your wiki pulled up, uh specifically the bibliography page. I mean, the the Marvel section is is very thorough. It's a long Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg Pak 23:53

Oh well, I've been yeah, and I've been writing for Marvel constantly throughout that time. You know what I mean? Like even like after I stopped being exclusive, I was still writing.

Badr Milligan 24:01

So what's been the funnest project or most challeng? Just thinking about Marvel specifically, because you spent like, you know, and we're talking about it and you spent a lot of time there. What's the funnest project or most challenging one that you had?

Greg Pak 24:12

I mean, every project you're learning something from, you know. Um, even like I mean, I won't name the project, but there were there was a project that was just really challenging on every level. Uh it was kind of like there were just uh certain restrictions that came with it that made it incredibly hard to actually make a good comic in itself, you know, like we had to really work hard to figure out, you know, to manage expectations and and manage the requirements and and get permission to do certain things. I mean, I I just got through telling you the comics is less frustrating than film in that regard. But you know, every once in a while you get a project that comes with a lot of baggage and it's just very hard to uh work through all the different uh the different stakeholders' desires. But I feel like we heroically hoisted that comic up from like a D plus to uh to a to a B minus, which is huge. You know what I mean? That's huge. From the outside, it kind of looks like a B minus, which is frustrating. But at the same time, it's like we knew what we did. You know what I mean? We knew how much incredibly hard work and how much improvement and what what really what kind of heroic work we did to make that happen. And and um And that's that's a huge learning experience uh professionally, and it's kind of like oh okay, I can do anything. You know what I mean? Like that sounds ridiculous, but that's that's sort of the feeling, you know what I mean? It's like we're good at this and we can spin, if not gold in this case, at least we spend uh we at least we spun silver out of uh out of out of flax. I can't even remember the the metaphor now, but silver out of a salsier, maybe not uh maybe not gold, but so during your time with Marvel, uh you end up co-creating uh Amadeus Cho.

Badr Milligan 25:48

I I think Wave is also credited to you as well, essentially giving uh you know Asian readers heroes that aren't just necessarily background characters. You know, these are you know uh Amadeus Cho for sure has been a central pillar of of the universe for a while. I uh what has that legacy meant to you over the years?

Greg Pak 26:05

Well, it's been huge. I mean, I'm uh I'm biracial, I'm half Korean and half white. Uh always grew up identifying very strongly as Asian, Asian American. I mean, I I'm very ambiguous looking now, I think. Uh with a bunch of I'm serious. It's like if I'm with a bunch of Greek people, everybody thinks I'm Greek. I'm with you know, I blend in.

Badr Milligan 26:24

If it's if I'm if I'm in a brown or tan group, I blend in. What is it? Puerto Rican, he might be Puerto Rican. He's definitely maybe Arab.

Greg Pak 26:30

He's uh I don't know. What are you? What is your background?

Badr Milligan 26:33

Uh I am uh Moroccan.

Greg Pak 26:35

Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? You know what I mean? Like so I go to Spain, people talk to me in Spanish, you know. Oh, yeah, definitely. I get that a lot. Yeah, all right. But um, but you know, when I was a kid, I looked much more phenotypically, stereotypically Asian, you know what I mean? And so and definitely the racists knew I was Asian. Uh so I developed a lot of, you know, kind of identity and pride. Um, and uh feeling. I mean, I think that one of the things that drove me into storytelling was this feeling of like, you know, we gotta be able to tell our stories, we gotta be able to communicate with each other. And in a way, this sounds dramatic, but I think it's true. It's like that was part of survival for me, was being able to communicate with people. Yeah. Doing stories with people of different backgrounds, um, uh with a variety of backgrounds, but the kind of you know, that reflect the reality in which we live. That's always been really important to me. So I was thrilled to be able to introduce Amadeus Joe. I mean, we we are like Amadeus Joe, we introduced that was also like 20, 21 years ago now. Yeah, that was right around the time that was right.

Badr Milligan 27:33

That's a seasoned character now.

Greg Pak 27:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh and still he's kind of a rarity to be like uh, you know, a a big mouth Asian like Asian American punk kid. Like that's that's still kind of a rare thing to see in comics. And uh um, but it's been very special to have the chance to create characters like that. When we created Wave, um, we were doing this Agent Symatlas book, which um was one of my kind of dream projects to pull together all these different Asian and Asian American characters into a single, you know, team book. Um, and we finally got that going. And um, but I was looking around at these characters because we were bringing in these legacy characters and like Jimmy Woo and John, yeah, and then some newer characters that have been developed, but there were no Southeast Asian characters, like novels didn't have how have much of that. And I was like, dude, we need a Filipino, we need a Filipino uh hero or heroine, and um we got Lineal Yu, who is come on from the Philippines, and he designed the character and we co-created, so we co-created away, and that was just like that was that that was another little you know project that just hit the sweet spot. Like this was around the time Avengers Endgame came out, so it was sort of at the very height of the Marvel movie experience internationally, right? And there hadn't been this kind of thing done with Filipino characters in particular, you know, specifically with Marvel, and folks were just so ready for it. I mean, there was a Filipino comic book store that did an exclusive cover for that book, and they sold just this one one comic shop in the Philippines. I think they told me they sold 5,000 copies, wow, their best-selling book ever, you know. Um for you know, like 5,000, like there's a lot of small indie books that don't sell that much, you know what I mean? And this was one comic book shop. I think that first is first issue like was reprinted four or five times. What was the uh what was the issue again? Uh um it was a crossover book and an agent of Atlas book, so it was a long title was War of the Realms Agents of Atlas, number one. So uh yeah, but um But you know, so that was you know, that kind of thing is uh you know, it was a ton of fun. It was very gratifying. I mean, there were there was like several different waves of like press in the Philippines where people were like, this new thing's coming out, and then there's like there was like a Filipino star who'd been asked, she'd been asked if she would play Wave, and she said, Oh no, I'm probably too old for that. And they're like, Star declines roll of Wave. That was a whole nother wave of press. You know what I mean? So it was it was it was bonkers.

Badr Milligan 30:00

Talk about a headline. You know, on the topic of Amadeus Show, um, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that he's been in a lot of other media. I mean, from video games to cartoons to uh to TV. I I guess what's your favorite version or interpretation of Amadeus Chow? And do you like keep up with his with his appearances? Do they have to? I'm assuming they got to contact you before they put him in the show.

Greg Pak 30:22

Well, they they can what am I thinking? Oh, sorry, but I mean sometimes they give me a heads up. Sometimes I just find out. Uh but um they've been very, I mean, they've been good with it. I mean, they like the character, I think they like the character for who the character is. Like he's a he's a good big mouth, you know what I mean? Sometimes you need a big mouth to come in and like flap his yap a lot and make some trouble. And I think they like him for that reason. I also like the fact that they have uh done a good job of maintaining him as a totally, you know, regular, regular, second generation Asian American kid, you know what I mean? Who's uh as opposed to like they haven't tried to like recast him as a Korean kid from Korea or something like that, which which which is fine, but that's not this character, you know what I mean? Like this character is doing something and and very intentionally is doing something distinct because there's a long history in Marvel Comics of like um you know, like Japanese characters from Japan, Chinese characters from China, all that, you know, like the it's it's almost like you know, there's there's a lot of different, like sort of Captain Americas of their home countries, you know what I mean? Like and and there are very few Asian American characters, like Jubilee really stands out in that regard, but there wasn't like a a teenage kid, Asian American kid in Marvel Paris at that at that point. So um, and so the way he's been depicted in in the games and the TV shows and all that has respected that and not just respected it, but enjoyed that. Like they they they seem to dig that. So I'm very pleased with that. I mean, my favorite version, of course, is the version in the comics. Come on, yeah. Probably uh, you know, like Takmy Ozawa in particular is the co-creator of the character, and every time he draws him, it's like there's there's my boy, you know what I mean? So that's really cute. It's nice.

Badr Milligan 32:06

Yeah, no, I I loved Amadeus Chow in that incredible. I mean, uh the Hulk run, but especially in the incredible Hercules series. I thought it was such a good balance between, like, you know, this knucklehead, uh uh, you know, uh bro god, and then this brilliant, very young child, and him being, you know, just the balance and the way they worked off of each other, some of the dialogue. I remember like falling in love with Amadeus Chow and um just to see that he's still around and you know, uh the how they elevated him, how they brought you back to write, you know, his uh his his first you know uh series of his own. Yeah. Awesome to see him grow up.

Greg Pak 32:40

Yeah, he was he was a lot, yeah. No, we we've had a lot of fun with that character.

Badr Milligan 32:43

Greg, do you remember, do you recall uh what's your earliest comic book memory? Like, do you remember the first one you were either given or the first one that you bought with your own money?

Greg Pak 32:52

Well, it would have been Peanuts. Uh the uh my mom had the old faucet paperbacks, little, little small pocket paperbacks that had compilations of the old Peanuts cartoons, like the classic ones, mostly from the 50s and early 60s. And my sisters and I used to just read those obsessively. And um, I think a huge amount of like my sense of humor comes from that. Certainly, uh, you know, like just the my love of comics and love of the love of drawing, I'm sure, was inspired hugely by that. Um, even like it's it's kind of funny, even just like certain kinds of phrasing, you know, like I like peanuts was sort of remarkable at the time because it was a thing aimed at kids. Um, and it was just full of just really colloquial language. Like he wouldn't write going to, he'd write gonna G-O-N-N A. You know what I mean? Like you you don't you you wouldn't get that as much in a kid's book uh around that time where the language is a little more um grounded, tended to be a little more formal, you know what I mean? But it was right there in the comics, and that's that that sort of very sort of real, everyday kind of language and the rhythms, you know, the rhythms of language are fantastic. I think also uh it sounds funny, but uh Charles Schultz is uh people don't talk about his lettering as much as they should. His lettering is just astounding. It's just astoundingly. Yeah, the way he's you know, he's using different size fonts, different style, you know, different different size letters, different styles of lettering for like volume and for emphasis, and and um it's just you know, it's it's brilliant. Even like, I mean, you know, sometimes Charlie Brown's feeling bad or whatever, anybody's feeling bad, and they're just walking on the street and the and their so their word balloon just has like a little scribble dark cloud in it. You know what I mean? Like stuff like that is so you know, out-of-the-box creative, making the most of the comics medium, and it's but at the same time, it's so clean and subtle, you know what I mean? Like you know exactly what it is, it's so elegant, but it's also like he's taking big swings all the time.

Badr Milligan 34:57

It has like a layer of cohesion to everything, it just ties it all together from what you're seeing, what's supposed to be uh, you know, uh depicted, emoted. I didn't even think about it like that.

Greg Pak 35:05

Yeah, I mean he's creating, I mean, his lettering creates a soundtrack too. You know what I mean? It's like it's like you you hear the valve, you hear the volume and everything. It's just it's I mean, it's just great storytelling and visual storytelling. It's all of it put together. And I think um having just like spent hours and hours and hours reading those things as a kid, I think it just kind of almost without my even realizing it just kind of became part of how I thought about things.

Badr Milligan 35:28

So, in addition to Charles Schultz and and Peanuts, was there any other comics or comic creators that that maybe inspired you that made you think like, oh, this I want to do this, I want to write comics, I want to get into it.

Greg Pak 35:40

Well, I um I mean my first Marvel comic was this uh uh Marvel Treasury Edition Spider-Man book, which was this big oversized. I love treasury editions.

Badr Milligan 35:52

I've got a whole box of them in my storage unit. Like all the classics.

Greg Pak 35:57

I think in 1975. But it had like uh, you know, like I I you know, I and I read and reread that thing forever. And I would, I, you know, I would draw and sort of like, you know, like study how, you know, how Romito was drawing Spider-Man and how, you know, how did he shave the knee and all that kind of stuff? So um, but also that that had like, if I'm remembering right, that book also had a like a little thing. It had all these little extras in it, you know what I mean? Like, you know, Spidey's utility belt. And then it would also had a thing talking about like, you know, readers sometimes ask, why do we, you know, when Peter is using a Spidey sense, why do we do this? And then they show this thing of like, you know, Peter with half of his face uh in a spider mask with the little indicator squigglies alongside it. And they're like, because that helps to that visually tells you, you know, like uh makes it real. And then like they show two different versions, one with that kind of mask and the squiggly thing, and one of him just sort of like tilting his head to say, which one do you think is more effective or whatever, and um to explain why they do it that way. And uh and that was like making transparent these choices, you know what I mean? These creative uh drawing choices and storytelling choices. Um so I think that you know that kind of thing had an impact on me. I certainly also was really inspired by Stan Sakai's Usagio Jimbo series. Um and uh I remember pouring over that in high school and just kind of studying the way he because he, you know, like those books have this very clean line art, black and white line art. I I studied that to kind of think about how he was indicating all kinds of different things with just lines, you know what I mean? Like he's not doing like charcoal shading and all of that, he's just drawing lines. So like studying like the way he drew clouds, you know what I mean? It's just uh and in indicating something, you know, that has no solidity with just with literal lines. So that was really inspiring.

Badr Milligan 37:47

Greg ha so how come you didn't get go in the the art path instead of oh well I did, I mean I cartooned forever.

Greg Pak 37:54

Um and I still do it, actually. I just finished uh uh uh I did a I did a strip for uh friend's book about uh Matt Bohr's cartoon. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I uh I I just like my you know, my the way my hand wants to draw um is is you know, and you gotta leave into that. That's that's who you are, you know, that's how you're like um my like the way I draw is uh is for lack of a better word, cartoonier than like the a lot of the stories that I write. You know, like I'm too cartoony to be uh you know a traditional Marvel Comics superhero artist, you know. Uh and also I can't draw anything in the world. You know what I mean? Like there are artists who can every artist I work with can literally draw anything, you know, and I can draw a lot of stuff, but I'm like, I I can't I don't know if I can draw a Buick Regal, a 1982 Buick Regal, and make it look really, you know, really accurate as a 1982 Buick Regal. I could draw, I can draw a pretty good horse. You know what I mean? But like, you know what I mean? Like I I have, you know, I got it's gonna be a kind of cartoony look, but it's gonna look all right.

Badr Milligan 39:03

You're like, I can draw a really good western that's outside with no buildings, no cars, or anything like that.

Greg Pak 39:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You know, like I could draw, I can draw, I can draw a uh a tentacled monster attacking Lionel, you know what I mean?

Badr Milligan 39:14

Like I can do that, but have you ever done like a uh commission, a sketch, a blank cover? Has anyone ever asked you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg Pak 39:21

Oh, cool. Oh, all the all the time. Because I I also do like little just cartoony hook faces and stuff in people's books, and people kind of dig that and know about that. So they'll yeah, they they will ask me to do that kind of stuff. I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty good at that, but uh, but yeah, I I I I defer to the pros. If somebody can do a part of the job better than me, it's like I'm very happy with it.

Badr Milligan 39:41

Well, you know what? Speaking about the pros in in art, man, I mean, uh, you know, like we've said it, you've you've had a 20 plus, 25 plus year career, and you've worked with some incredible, incredible artists. I mean, from Jay Lee, David Finch, you mentioned uh Carlos Pagalawan. Um, is there any what artists come to mind when you think about that have just like completely wowed you that that were such a maybe a positive working experience? I'm just curious what what artists come to mind when you think about like your time in comics?

Greg Pak 40:10

I mean, Tak Miyazawa was amazing to work with because we co-created Omeday S Joe together and there was just something that clicked there. Um, I think there's I I don't, you know, I don't know what it is, but there's there's there's some kind of way in which when I read something and then you know I give it to Talk, it's like he it's like he just dips right into my brain and he knows exactly what that body language is. Maybe it's because we're both like I don't know, because he's he's like Asian Canadian, you know what I mean? I'm Asian American. Maybe there's something about you know because some of the because a lot of the characters we've done together have been Asian American. Maybe there's something about just like that family communication in the body language of all of them, like between the kids and the parents and all that. Yeah, he just he just gets it. So um, so that I mean, talk has always just been a huge pleasure to work with.

Badr Milligan 40:57

Can I erupt and say uh talk is the artist and the co-creator of Met Cadet, right? Okay, exactly. If I may give you some praise here, I read uh so in preparation for this, I not only read the the four words for the new Planet Hulk, but I read Mec Cadet U, at least the the first six issues, because I was like, well, let me give his his creator-owned stuff a shot. Dude, I loved it. It was uh thank awesome. And the art, the art, yeah. Um one of my favorite parts of that, it's a very minor thing, but anytime that the uh um the kids are in in the the mech suits or are in the mech and they're you know, and there's panels where they're communicating while they're in the mech, someone, you know, you guys are have this like little circle with the uh image of the person and the little book. I thought that was a really cool way of expressing, like, hey, here's who's talking. You know, it's the word balloon isn't attached to the mech because the mech obviously can't speak, but it's the pilot inside. I thought that is such a cool, just minor way of communicating dialogue. I thought it was really cool.

Greg Pak 41:55

Yeah, it was, I mean, that that that was a really complicated thing to do because it's yeah, exactly as you say, it's like kids inside their mechs, and you're cutting between, like, yeah, when you want them to talk, you want to see the kids' face, but how are you indicating where they are? Like, how does that work spatially? And yeah, I I can't remember that. May have been me in the script saying, hey, let's do a little, you know, kind of pop-up bubble next to the next to the things, but talk totally killed it with the execution of that. And then Simon Bolin was the letterer on that. And huge credit to Simon because Simon figured out like how to differentiate the different dialogue balloons, and it was complicated because sometimes the kids are outside of the mechs yelling at each other, and that's a different style balloon from when they're inside the mechs, you know what I mean? And that if they're inside the cockpit and you're seeing them, that's a different kind of balloon than from if you're outside of the mech and you're hearing their voice come from the mech, and then the mechs themselves have voices. So it's there's a lot of different things going on here, and and he figured out a you know, a subtle different way for each one of those things to work. I mean, the coloring too, uh Charlie's color on that book. Oh, yeah. And Triona blew my mind because she just like in in that first issue, she just came back and you know, it's this kind of it's about a kid who is he's a janitor, he works at this this the school. Salt to the yeah, exactly. Just a regular kid, but he's the janitor, he's not a student, and all the all the students of the school are like the elite military academy kids, and they're they're in the school that's set up to next to a place where giant robots, mysterious giant robots from outer space, come every few years and bond with kids. So the military's built this academy to prep these kids to be the kids who, you know, who were adopted or bond with these robots so they can incorporate them into the military industrial complex, right? So, but but the feeling of the whole vibe at the beginning is this kind of aching loneliness and longing from this janitor's kid who's like, you know, meant for big rejects. Yeah, and he's you know, he's I mean, it's kind of Luke Skywalker-ish, right? Because it's sort of like this desert. Desert background, and he's kind of like biking lonely. Look bite. You know, funny, I'm only realizing this right now as we talk about it. But you know, he's biking home with this, you know, landscape behind him, and he's like this little dude and it's lonely. But and so Triona came in and and put and did these gorgeous, like pink skies, you know what I mean? And she gave it this whole like sunset evening feel to the whole thing. And it's it's uh but it but the colors are so bold and yet so um evocative, like it maintains that tone in a really unexpected way. I remember when I first thought it was like, what's this? And then I was like almost immediately like, oh my god, this just works, you know. It was so, but but a long story, long way around of saying that she also was figuring out different lighting for like the kids inside the cockpit, you know. So the kids inside the cockpit have kind of a tint to them and and you know, coordinating all that. And then that also let us give their their their intercom balloons separate different colors, you know, so we can keep them separate. So anyway.

Badr Milligan 45:01

Yeah, no, it's awesome. And uh it turns out I still got like six more issues to go. And uh looking forward to it. It's a really fun but sweet. All right, uh, Greg, I think I'm gonna use this opportunity to pivot to our our main event. It's been a lot of fun catching up on some of this old stuff, but I want to talk about your your newest project coming out. It's uh Thundercats number one. You're the writer on this series alongside artists. Let me see. Uh uh, you got uh David, is it cousins? Cousins? I think I I've been saying cousins. I hope that's right. I just like saying cousins because it's a really cool uh last name. Yeah, so you got uh uh David Cousins on art. Uh let me see who else. Let me pull up the full solicitation. Igor Monty on Igor Monty on Colors. Uh the series comes out uh first. Oh, my internet is acting super slow. Okay, the first issue comes out October 7th. Final order cutoff for those interested. It is Monday, September 14th. So please do uh get your pre-orders in. But this series, uh, from my understanding is a is a brand new jumping on point. It continues directly after what Declan Shelvy and Drew Moss and the rest of the team have been building with the prior Thundercats run, which ran for 25 issues, which is hella impressive. Um, and then including uh the the Thunder Cat Silverhawks crossover. So this story you're picking up after that. So if you don't mind, I guess setting the stage, where do we find Lionel? Where do we find the Thundercats uh in your story?

Greg Pak 46:19

I mean, so Thundercats was a you know long-running uh TV show. It's had a few different incarnations started back when I was a kid in the 1980s. But all you really need to know is that it's uh that uh so the Thundercats are this this species of like cat people, you know, they're people who have like cat ears and cat eyes and stuff. Um but it's uh you know, it's a it's a kind of a sci-fi fantasy story where they're at war with the mutants of of you know of of uh who are attacking their home planet, and um they flee and uh like all their ships get blown up except for this one ship. And the people on that ship are Lionel, who is the sort of young prince uh of the Thundercats, uh of Thundera, Lord of Thundera, and um, and the sort of like central court of advisors, you know, who are all basically superheroes, you know what I mean? They've all got their own skills. Like there's Cheetara who runs real fast, and uh uh and uh I mean it's just a bunch of fun characters. They've all got like big chat names. Yeah, Panthro, who is like, you know, the the big dude, he's sort of the muscle, but he's also like the tech guy who like repairs all the stuff.

Badr Milligan 47:26

Greg, who's your favorite Thundercat? If I don't you might interrupt you're your favorite?

Greg Pak 47:29

Oh, I mean, Panthero's just a lot of fun. I mean, Panther's awesome because he can just um, you know, he's always uh uh the characters who have the little rye comments are always a ton of fun to write. Um, but I gotta say, Lionel, I mean, Lionel's just a blast because the the central idea with Lionel is that he's this kid. I mean, he's like 13 or something years old when they take off, and then they go into suspended animation to get to this new place. But his particular, you know, chamber, I this is complicated, I know, but his particular chamber like malfunctions so that when they arrive, he's he's a grown, he steps out as a grown man, but he's still like, you know, this this kind of punk kid. And so he's cocky and uh impulsive, and he makes all these mistakes, and he's he's kind of a jerk sometimes. Um and uh and that's just uh you know, it it it's fun to I it's like Amadeus Chow. Like Amadeus Chow, the big thing with Amadeus is that the kid just cannot keep his mouth shut. If it's in his head, it's out of his mouth. You know what I mean? And that's just it's a huge amount of fun to write characters who behave badly, get themselves into trouble sometimes. And so Lionel's got some of that going on. So in our series, uh they've been on this new planet, Third Earth, for a while. Everybody hates them on this planet, all the other like clans, because the Thundercats uh as uh like as as uh as a little empire of their own did some bad things to other people over the years, including exiling a lot of the people to Third Earth before they got there as refugees. And um, and so uh so there's this sort of effort to create a new peace, um, you know, to to create peace with the clans, all these different clans on third earth. Uh and uh something unexpected happens and uh and chaos ensues. And uh who is the feral king? That's the big question uh for the first issue.

Badr Milligan 49:18

Well, look, uh judging from the the solicitation, I won't read the full thing, but it sounds like uh you're taking Lionel off his pedestal as a ruler. Uh there's uh you're you're asking if if monarchy itself is flawed, and and there's a lot, it feels like a lot of political uh uh topics and and some real life uh things that you're addressing. What made you want to take a classic 80s fantasy action cartoon and give it like real political weight? I mean, like I said, if you read the solicitation, you could tell, like, okay, this is gonna talk about some serious topics in terms of you know uh diplomacy, democracy, all that.

Greg Pak 49:50

Yeah, I mean, I uh the the times call for what they call for, you know what I mean? Um, but it's also just I mean, it's it's good fun stuff. Uh Nate Cosby, uh, who is the editor of Thundercats, actually, I worked with him on Planet Hulk back in the day. He was the assistant editor on Planet Hulk with when Tio was running that show. And so, you know, he knew that I could he knew that I had a real attraction to sort of like big fantasy stories and and world building, which is what we're doing here. Um, and uh um and this kind of story, you know, where you're you know, you've got this central, you know, uh uh storyline of this, you know, this boy king and this this monarchy and these clashing clans. Um it just feels like it's a great time to kind of tear into that a little bit to kind of figure out if that's you know, is is this uh you know, like like how valid, you know, like are we gonna celebrate a boy king like ruling over a bunch of people and kicking ass and just doing that indiscriminately? Or are we gonna we're gonna pick that apart a bit and see what's what's really going on here and and and take these characters um seriously and take their emotional lives seriously and take the you know the political, you know, the social and political ramifications of what they do and and the uh and the moral weight of what they do seriously, you know? Um so I think it's a huge amount of fun. There's there's almost it's these books are packed with action. Uh David Cousins is killing it. Uh he's a big Thundercats fan, old school Thundercats fan. He loves the show, he loves the characters, and you just feel that coming through. And I think he's just thrilled to be doing new stuff with them because we're really taking big swings. If you if you like the original show too, I think it'll appeal just because in the original show, like it was they they just they made they like make 200 something episodes. I don't even remember, but um, but they did everything. Like whatever they wanted to do, they did. They would uh like they did a freaking pirate episode. They did like uh, you know, like a like a kind of oh my god, they I mean so many different genres they're just playing with. They got like little cyborg bears, you know what I mean? Like they like like there's just so much loopy stuff that can happen in this world. And um, I felt like they they were swinging big every time. And uh and so we're we're we're we're doing this in that same spirit. We're just you know, like this is a third world, third earth is a place where all kinds of stuff can happen. There's lots of uncharted territory, and uh, and we're gonna have a lot of fun with it. So hope you all do enjoy.

Badr Milligan 52:19

I'm curious what what was what was the handoff from uh from Declan and and Drew Moss like? Because I you know I mentioned like they have been, you know, they they had been building something pretty big over 25 issues of Thundercats. Like I said, there was a really big crossover of the Silverhawks. Like, I'm always curious, and then now you and and David Cousins come in and you guys are taking the baton. Brand new number one. I'm always curious, like, what is the handoff like? Like, do you guys have multiple meetings? Uh how does that go?

Greg Pak 52:46

Well, Nate, our editor, is really the the go-between, and sort of like the one who's who's maintaining all of that. I mean, I read every other, you know, I read all the all the previous issues and all the minis and everything. And they, you know, like they've done like, yeah, I mean, Declan and and Drew did this incredible epic story, right? And uh, and if you like that story, it's it's all all that happened, and all of that is setting up everything that happens in this story. Uh so those, you know, all the like Calica, who's a huge new character that they introduced, is playing a big, big role in this story. And uh, and they explored a number of very key points of history between the uh the mutants or the mutants and the uh and the Thundercats, and uh and that stuff is informing everything we're doing. So um, I mean the the ideal way, you know, like with this kind of these trade-offs happen in comics all the time, you know, like it uh I've had books passed to me and I've passed on books to other people. And I mean, from my point of view, what you hope for is um that uh whether you're on the giving or receiving end of that, you hope that uh whatever came previously is is respected and that that that that you know that carries through and that it it matters, um, but also that the that the new story gets to go and spread its own wings and do its own thing, you know what I mean? And uh I I mean that the Hulk is sort of a glorious example of that, and that like so many different people have taken the Hulk in so many different directions, and yet it's still the same character, you know? And uh so you know, some stories lend themselves that more than others, but um, or some characters, just the dynamic of it, like the Hulk whole transformation thing means that he can transform in a lot of different ways, and that's really cool for the character, really cool for all the creators who work on them. So that's kind of baked into the whole premise of the character. With yeah, with this Thundercats book, though, I think we're I think we're doing something, you know, touch wood, that it's something that you know clicks on all those different levels, like Mecca Dio and Planet Hulk did.

Badr Milligan 54:51

You know, staring at the cover for the first issue, you know, there's a line about, you know, the the Pharaoh King and you know, Lionel is looking like brawlic and and monstrous on this cover. And it got me thinking, you know, you you've written two of comic history's most famously like misunderstood monsters between the Hulk as well as Dar Vader. It looks like you're dealing with another monster here. I got what draws you to characters struggling with like this dark side?

Greg Pak 55:15

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's uh it's there's just a lot of juice there. I mean, the the whole misunderstood monster thing. I think you know, I think it comes from a couple of things. One is just like monsters are cool. I've always loved monster movies. Like I I always love monster movies more than horror movies, you know. Like when I was a kid, I wasn't into slasher movies, but I sure as heck was gonna go see any monster movie I could, you know. I I don't even know where that comes from, but uh monsters are cool, dinosaurs are cool, you know, like giant robots are cool. But there's there's also something about the I, you know, like I mean, I'm sure that growing up as the half Asian kid in Dallas, Texas meant that I, you know, kind of developed an instinctive uh appreciation for stories about underdogs and outsiders, you know. I mean, I think honestly, stories about outsiders and underdogs appeal to literally everybody. Like everybody feels that kind of, oh, I'm you know, I'm a freak, I'm different, you know, just about everybody. Even like, you know, I probably even the most popular, you know, stereotypical jockeyerle feels that way. It's like, oh, I'm the little popular cheerleader, everybody thinks I'm a weirdo, you know what I mean? Like, like I'm sure that's the feeling, right? Um at some point. So, so that kind of, you know, difference, you know, because everybody is everybody's a freak. You know, there's no such thing as normal. We're all like weirdos, and and that's cool. And uh, but but so monster stories have always appealed to me because it's like um, you know, like like seeing things from the other person's side has always been compelling to me. And that's the most extreme example of that.

Badr Milligan 56:47

I think they did make a movie about a monster cheerleader. I think it was called Jennifer's Body, starring Megan.

Greg Pak 56:52

Oh, right, right, right, right. I never saw that. I gotta see that. People people speak very highly of that. Karen Karen Kosama directed that, I think. Yeah, yeah. He's uh an awesome director.

Badr Milligan 57:02

So somebody Okay, Greg, I'm I want to pivot here and and uh take a break from asking the questions. This is a segment I like to call the short box friends and family segment. It's a the part of the show where I shut up for a minute and let someone else ask the questions. Today's question comes from Ben Kingsbury. He is the owner of Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. It's in an intro. Not only the longest running supporter of the podcast, but also the best name comic shop here in Northeast Florida. I want to play Ben's voicemail for you, okay? Here we go.

Ben Kingsbury 57:33

Hey Greg, I'm Ben Kay, owner of Gotham City Limit down here in sunny Jacksonville, Florida. Thanks so much for taking some time to be here today. So every time I get to come on and ask the question of an awesome creator, it reminds me how fortunate and grateful I am that I opened a comic shop almost nine years ago. Because I really wanted to bring some of the properties that influenced me as a youngster to a new generation. I mean, that's a big part of why I started this place to begin with. Gotham City Limit isn't just a retail comic shop, it's a throwback to all of the awesome properties that made my childhood awesome, and hopefully we can pass on to a new generation. So my question kind of stems from that. In October, you've got a young Luke Skywalker tearing through Beggar's Canyon and a brand new Thundercats number one that's supposed to be a jumping on point, the same month. From my perspective, behind the counter, that means I'm selling it to the guy and girl who grew up with a cartoon just like me, and the kid who just found it last week. So, what's your trick to writing a licensed first issue that doesn't feel like homework for either one of them? Well, I'll leave you here to answer. Thanks again for what you do. We literally couldn't do it without you. And remember, Shortbox Nation, we'll always take it to the limit. Peace.

Greg Pak 58:58

That is awesome. Well, Ben, thank you because we literally couldn't do it without you. You know what I mean? Like comic shops are the lifeblood of the industry, as I always say. Um, like you keep us alive, keeping you you you you make it possible for us to keep keep keep cranking along. So thank you. Um, and that's a great question. Uh I yeah, I I hate it when uh when I when I feel like I have to do homework in order to understand the story. You know what I mean? Like I want to be able to pick it up and start from page one and just keep you know, this is one of the reasons why Planet Hulk, I think, has has lasted the way it has or why it's resonated, because you l all you have to know is, I mean, you you almost don't have to know anything. You just have to know like the like the Hulk is some dude who turns into the Hulk when he gets angry. You know what I mean? Like that's all you really need to know. Yeah, and you can you can just you can just rock it from there. Um so I mean, you know, we're striving to do that with every every first issue um and with every new story. Uh uh, I mean, some are some are trickier than others because sometimes there's just a whole lot of uh uh explanation or backstory you gotta do. But we, you know, we we have our our little tricks and tricks of the trade to try to seamlessly get you up to speed here and there. And I I think we're doing that pretty successfully with these books, and uh I sure hope they appeal. I mean, with the uh the Beggars Canyon book that you mentioned, we have the advantage of like introducing a very young Luke Skywalker. So it's uh, you know, it's somebody who is, you know, who's experiencing a lot of things for the first time. So that makes it a very easy entry point. Uh and kind of all you have to know with that is that Luke is uh, you know, he's a underdog who's growing up on this desert planet of Tatooine, getting teased by his friends and has dreams of flying away someday. And we'll see whether or not that works out for him. Yeah, and then with the Thundercats, it's uh we kind of went over some of that earlier in the episode. But um, but yeah, I think I my hope is that uh, you know, uh an intrigued 12-year-old can pick this up and get sucked right in and and read it alongside their, you know, their their their their their pop who may have uh grown up with the cartoons.

Badr Milligan 1:01:01

Greg, I'm I'm curious, when's the last time you've had a chance to go into a comic shop? Uh or in and what did you buy?

Greg Pak 1:01:07

Oh, um well the last thing I bought in a comic shop was a short box because I needed some extra short boxes. Hey, there we go. I was just at Flame Con, uh the uh LGBTQ. It's uh here in New York. Uh uh Yeah, one of the LGBTQ Comic-Cons. Um, and uh saw some friends there, and I bought what did I just buy? I bought um the Galaxy book, and I bought I I bought a big stack of books that I haven't had a chance to read yet. Um but it was cool because I got to buy them directly from the uh uh the creators. Um so yeah, it was it's Galaxy the Prettiest Star, uh Jadzia Axelrod's book. So I got to buy Jadzia's book, and I bought uh one of the latest books from Erica Henderson. Nice. And uh I think it was her, yeah, I bought one of her Poison Ivy books because she's doing this new Poison Ivy series. Um and I bought Ethan Aldridge's uh newest graphic novel, um, which is just gorgeous looking. Let me let me dig up the name of that because I've forgotten the name. Um and these are all like totally different styles of book, and it was just a lot of fun to, you know what I mean. Like that's always the thrill of comics, is that there's something for everybody and they're all different kinds of stories. And it's sable, a ghost story, is the is Ethan's book. It's got like a you know, like the the that kind of animal, the sable, which is sort of like a uh a ferret kind of creature, a white sort of like in the weasel family. But that's like the it's a it's a it's an it's a humanoid animal. Um I and I think it's like a mystery story. It looks like a kind of almost Ellery queen, not Ellery queen. Yeah, encyclopedia brown sort of style. Um, I think it's probably creepier than that.

Badr Milligan 1:02:49

I really like this range of comics that you picked up at at this uh uh convention. I what which has now got me interested to hear if you had to give a Mount Rushmore of your all-time favorite comics, or maybe the comics that come to mind that make up the Greg Pac DNA. Like what are some of your all-time favorites or most important comics?

Greg Pak 1:03:10

I'm gonna say I'm gonna say uh uh the peanuts. There we go. Peanuts that we talked about before, uh Usagi Ojimbo that we talked about before, Linda Berry's um comics, her uh she did these like weekly comics um uh for the alt-weekly newspapers back in the day. Linda Berry's just an uh incredible genius in the call that's Ernie Pooks Comic? Yeah, yeah, yes, Ernie Pooks Comiques. Um and uh she had this she had this character Marlis, who's this, you know, kind of weird little kid who's like just doing everyday stuff, like living out of a trailer, I think, and all this kind of stuff. But they're just great. They're just like it's kind of almost like you know, like A24 peanuts. You know what I mean? It's kind of like grungy, grungy kid stories. And uh I just loved those when I was growing up, uh reading those. Um, in terms of then Naushika of the Valley of Winds is huge for me, one of the greatest comics ever created. Um, Ayo Miyazaki, uh, who you all know from you know uh all the movies, um, made this comic, which is just tremendous. Uh I mean, in terms of like superhero comics, uh Batman Year One is sort of forever got a huge impact on me. The Bill Mantelo's Micronauts series was my favorite series when I was uh growing up. Someone my dad is rooting you on. He's like, hell yeah, it was a micronauts love. Exactly, right? Um, so yeah, I you know, it's a it's a big range.

Badr Milligan 1:04:40

I uh can I say I I did not know that Nashka of the Valley of the Wind started as a manga. I'm so used to just seeing just the film, but uh uh there's I'm looking at the the Wikipedia entry in this the cover to the first volume is my I mean, no, no surprise. Uh but wow.

Greg Pak 1:04:57

You learned astounding. It's incredibly it's long, it's so much more detailed than the movie. It's got like this. I mean, it it does all this big stuff that I like. It's that big epic storytelling with a central character with a real clear emotional struggle and story, and um it's endlessly inventive, and it also has this huge, you know, it's like grappling with real questions of environmental destruction and clashes between cultures, and like it like it's it's uh it's like a lot of Miyazaki stories, it's there are a whole lot of conflicts, but it's unclear who the who is actually a villain, you know what I mean? Like it's it's uh there it's it's really showing um that kind of human struggle and shades of gray, which is just good to know.

Badr Milligan 1:05:43

I'm gonna check this out. No, this thing, thank you for the recommendation. All right, second and last question for you, Greg. When when you think about your time, I mean, this very tenured career in comics. Uh, you know, I we talked about some of your artistic collaborators, but I'm curious about what names come to mind or who Really stands out when you think about mentors in the game? Like, is there a name or two that come to mind that were a huge help to you? Maybe an inspiration, maybe like gave you some real life advice to you know navigate comics?

Greg Pak 1:06:13

Yeah. Well, um, I mean, all my editors, you know what I'm saying? Because I came into comics out of film. And so I was working with editors uh particularly early on who were like, you know, kind of like uh helping me out as I was um, you know, figuring out how to write comics as opposed to just film scripts. Uh so you know, I've got a huge appreciation for those those folks who were, you know, kind of uh standing by me, giving me a shot, and and helping me as I made that transition. Um and also, I don't know, like I mean, there's people like Mark Penicia, who's my editor on Planet Hulk, who, you know, was I I don't I think he would he would not describe himself as my mentor, which he'd he'd probably want to think of himself as just my collaborator, but he had like you know, like decades of experience in comics before before me. And so I just learned a lot from him. I learned a lot from my buddy Fred Van Lantick, uh, who again, like we're co-writers, we're really colleagues, but but you know, he also just had tons of experience in the in the industry. He understood and he understands the comic industry in general on a deep sort of historical level, more so than most people, you know what I mean? And so if I ever have any kind of question like that, that you know, Fred's the dude. In terms of like just like you know, art and storytelling, I I I want to give it and this is a small this seems like a small thing, but Klaus, uh Klaus Jansen, who is uh you know, the incredibly famous um live uh of Frank Miller and also you know incredible artist in his own right, um I got to interview him for a book that Fred and I were co-writing about making comics, uh about inking, you know, and because it's like you know, at different stages I've I've kind of learned about the different parts of comics making. And and it was just really I had this just an hour, maybe maybe hour and a half long conversation with Klaus where he just blew my mind talking about different kinds of inking and like line weight and just like made it so you know, and talked about like you know, some some artists like Mobius just use the same line weight for everything, and then other artists are very aggressive using different line weight to create depth, and that those are both valid choices. But it's like you're making, but that's part of the storytelling is what kind of you know, like how you're uh you know, like just line weight, and that's just like stuff like that, you know, like little moments that colleagues in comics will take to to help you understand stuff. Um, sometimes they would they don't even know what they're doing, you know, like they're not they're not like sitting there trying to like mentor you, but my god, they are, you know what I mean? And and uh so I'm incredibly grateful. I mean, I'm I've there's a million other things like that where we're fellow comic creators have just like I've just learned so much from from my colleagues.

Badr Milligan 1:08:57

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better person to give you a crash course or speak on the topic of inking than Klaus Jansen. That's awesome. Amazing. All right. Last question for you, Greg, and we'll wrap up. What else are you working on? We talked about Thundercatch, which is coming out in October. You mentioned the new uh um upcoming graphic novel Star Wars Tales from the Outer Rim, The Legend of Beggar's Canyon. Wow, that is a mouthful. That also comes out in October. Uh you seem like a very busy man. I mean, when you got 600 plus uh uh writing credits uh to your name, you seem like a very busy man. Do you have anything else uh that you're working on?

Greg Pak 1:09:30

Yeah, let me plug a couple things. Um I'm doing a uh I'm I'm writing the Predator versus Planet of the Apes comic book for Marvel, which is incredibly fun, uh, drawn by the great Alan Robinson, who is killing it. Uh and then I'm uh I'm doing a lot, I mean I'm doing some stuff I can't talk about yet, sadly. Um I'm I'm continuing to do little short stories for EC comics, the Oni Comics revival of EC Comics, of these short little sort of amoral horror stories. I guess they do have morals, but like people get like the people the people get killed. Well, somebody's always gonna die. It's a very dark moral, you know what I mean? It's like you you act like a jerk, you're gonna get it killed. But um, but they're just really fun, you know, nasty little horror stories, which is a different thing from what I have often been associated with. So they've been a blast. Um and then I'm doing a ton of uh of activist and political work, including making zines, which are sort of comics related. Um for good, like like here's here's one. It's called Hands Off Our Vote. Um, and uh this is uh done in conjunction with the folks at Hands Off New York, um, and it's about election protection because we are coming up on uh these new, you know, the midterms, and and so these different groups are sort of reaching out to people to make sure they're registered and to prepare them for if uh if the uh the Trump regime decides they're gonna try to uh suppress people's votes or or mess with the vote. And uh so I'm you know doing that kind of stuff. Um doing a lot of work with this group called Comics Action. You Google Comics Action, you'll find this uh group of uh New Yorkers uh who work in the comics industry who also care about the world, and we're doing all kinds of different projects, activist projects. So check us out.

Badr Milligan 1:11:10

Look, I'll go ahead and say to my uh politically conscious and aware friends out there, uh Greg Pac is a fantastic follow uh on Blue Sky, especially. You're doing you're doing the important work, Greg, and I appreciate it.

Greg Pak 1:11:22

I appreciate you. Thank you, thank you.

Badr Milligan 1:11:24

All right, with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast, and we just finished talking to Greg Pock about uh his new series, Thundercats, which once again uh it's a new chapter of Thundercats. It's written by Greg Pac. It's got art by David Cousins, Comic Hit Shops Wednesday, October 7th, in the form of Thundercats number one. Final order cutoff is this Monday, September 14th. So if you want to ensure that you get a copy, which you absolutely should, go to your local comic shops, tell them to put it on your poll list, pre-order the comic. Once again, Thundercats number one, October 7th. I'm gonna have links to Greg's social media as well as his website in the show notes so you can uh follow him, you can keep an eye out for future announcements and projects. Do all this stuff, right? You know what you need you know what needs to be done, just do it. Greg, best of luck on everything. Thanks for stopping by. I really appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.

Greg Pak 1:12:13

Thank you so much. Huge pleasure. I'll come back anytime. Let me know. Oh yeah.