Christian Ward 0:00

In this episode of the shortbacks. When I'm doing comics, you know, co yeah, I'm working. And it and it is work. But but also, you know, going all the way back to kind of like what I was talking about at the start, like I'm doing this because I love it and I love connecting with people. And for me, you know, time is precious and and I don't always have time to do the things that I want to do and promote as much as I want to promote. But I I have no embarrassment about promotion or fake kind of modesty, you know, because I'm really proud of the work that I do and I'm really proud of my collaborating.

Badr Milligan 0:36

Ladies and gentlemen, shortbox podcast is recorded live from Jacksonville, Florida. Short Box Nation. Hello again. Welcome back and thanks for pressing play today. It's my it's my favorite day of the week. I mean, it's Wednesday, new comic book day. It's hump day. Um, I'm almost through the work week. Uh what other good reasons is there for Wednesday? Oh, usually there's like wing Wednesdays at most bars, so like 50 cent, 75 cent wings. There's a lot of good reasons to enjoy Wednesday. But I think at the top of the list is new Short Box Day. That's just me, though. But anyways, look, if you're brand new, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Badr Milligan, and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show where we bridge the gap between the panels of your favorite comics with the people who put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. This is episode 516, and joining me today is multi-eyed winning comic book artist and writer, Christian Ward. Christian is responsible. A little early, but I like the enthusiasm. Christian is responsible for some of uh for some of the most visually stunning comics of the last two decades, including his Cosmic Space Opera's Odyssey, co-creative of Matt Fraction, and the Eisner-winning Invisible Kingdom co-creator G. Willow Wilson, as well as Batman's City of Madness, which I had the opportunity to read for the first time. I mean, this is like a two-year-old book. Of course, I'm always perpetually late, but I recently had a chance to read it for the first time. And Batman's City of Madness is it's awesome. Uh these days, he's just as busy writing comics as he is drawing them with projects like The Forever Home on uh for Oni Press. He's doing something for Ignition Press called The Patron, and more recently, he's written the Event Horizon prequel and sequel comics for IDW. He's got a third series coming out in December. Today we'll be talking about his journey from art teacher to award-winning comic creator, his career highlights, and uh talk about what it takes to reinvent yourself creatively. But before we get started on that, I want to give big shout outs to our sponsor and supporters, including Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. It's not only my local comic shop, it's not only the longest running sponsor of the podcast and an award-winning comic shop at that, but it's the best comic shop here in Northeast Florida. If you live in Jacksonville, you can visit them today on Southside Boulevard. And if you don't live in the area or anywhere near Florida, well, good news, you can buy comics from them online at GothamCityLimit.com. Check it out. And one more uh shout out, a special heartfelt shout out to the loyal supporters over on the short box Patreon. Thank you to all the Patroni homies for your support, for for uh helping me keep the lights on and motivated and going. If you enjoyed the show and you want to be counted among the short box elite, well consider becoming a short box patroni at patreon.com slash the short box. Once again, patreon.com slash the short box. If you like the show, if you want to help me keep it going and growing, check it out. Thank you in advance. Now, without further ado, let's bring on our guest of honor today, calling in all the way from the UK. It's comic creator Christian Ward.

Christian Ward 3:55

Hey Christian. Oh, look at that. Come on, applause for the man. Amazing, dude. What an intro. What an intro. Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to finally be here. We were talking off camera just before that uh I've been kind of waiting for the invites to to complete my my podcast rushmore. Yeah, yeah. And it's lovely to find. I mean, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not I can't say that. I love I cannot say that. I love Chris, I love Brad and Lisa, I love David. I can't say that. But you are all equally loved by me. And now my love, and now my love is complete.

Badr Milligan 4:32

Spoken like a that was a very pragmatic parent answer right there, and I love it. That was good. That was good. Man, Christian, you are a busy man. You you've been a busy man for a while. If I if I may be completely honest, I've been familiar with your work for for a while now. I just did not quite grasp how far back it goes. Everywhere I looked online quoted like uh, you know, industry veteran that's been around for 18 years with some of like the quotes and words I've seen. Do you remember your first published work? Because I think everything officially points to 2009, the uh the series you did of Nathan Edmondson Olympus, which makes it 18 years, but I like using Liga Comedy Geeks because they got a pretty good filtering system. And I see you got credits on like 2000 AD and Judge Dredd that that precede that. What is the first Christian Ward official?

Christian Ward 5:22

Well, the very first thing was something that I did in, I believe, 2007, which was an in and I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly, which was the yeah, yeah. It was an indie kind of like small press book called M Monkeys with Machine Guns, and it was published by um by a guy in in Wales, I believe, a guy called Chris Lynch, and um and uh yeah, they just did like kind of like uh you know self-published anthology. Have you looked it up?

Badr Milligan 5:55

No, I'm sorry, I did. I looked up, I stupidly just wrote monkeys with machine guns, and I mean the Google results are just literally that a bunch of monkeys holding machines.

Christian Ward 6:03

I mean, I can leave you for 10 minutes for you, you know, it's gonna take you a while to film through that entertainment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I did that, and it was um, you know, it was just uh uh I I believe it was a black and white. That was my first thing. Um and it was just you know, it was a small press, small press book. So that was the first thing. Um, but the first like proper printed book that was available in comic stores would have been Atomic Robo.

Badr Milligan 6:28

I see that on here.

Christian Ward 6:29

Yeah, I want to say issue four.

Badr Milligan 6:31

Let me see what it's got. Yep, yep, yeah. Well, uh it was issue five released in two February thirteenth, two thousand eight. Uh and the lit and the publisher is Red Five.

Christian Ward 6:42

Red Five, that's right. And that was through my that was my friend Scott Wagner, who was the artist and still is the artist on uh Atomic Robo. And they had um they basically had it was their first series, their first run, and they had back in the day like five-page backup stories. And Scott we met on Jinx World, uh the Jinx World Forum, which is really really age. I mean, this is like well before social media or anything, although I think Myspace existed. And um, yeah, I I I wrote and drew a five-page Atomic Robo short that uh uh Brian oh shoot, Brian, your surname escapes me. But he's like, Brian Clevinger, I think is how you say it. Clevinger, that's it, Clevenger. So Brian kind of then kind of did a letter in press to kind of make it in sync and everything, so it was a bit of a collaborative piece. And uh yeah, it was uh that was I was off to the races, and then that led to the first image book, uh, which which you mentioned. Um and then you know, and all while that was happening, I was I was teaching, so there was lots of lots of late nights and just like being fuelled by the love of comics and just always having wanting to have been a comic book artist.

Badr Milligan 7:56

Yeah, that's what I ended up learning, you know, a lot more about your story that you were teaching art in uh uh was it Wolverhampton where you grew up, right?

Christian Ward 8:03

I grew up in Wolverhampton, uh which is in the centre of the UK. It's like uh I mean anyone who knows Peeking Blinders, so that's in Birmingham, that's in the West Midlands, and we're just like the the the town across. Um and it's that sort of vibe. Um and I I grew up there, but I le I left there in 2000 to you know get my go to London, go to where the the the it was paved with gold to make my living as an artist. Yeah, big city of dreams. It didn't quite it didn't quite work out, I'm afraid. And uh Big City of Nightmares, never mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I basically I worked for two years as a as a six-foot teddy bear. True story. Um wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you saying you work security? No, I was a teddy bear. Oh whoa, oh literally. I was like literally, I had the head on, I had like a big like I used to go, I used to work at Hamley's, and I was on the Hamley's teddy bear, which was the big like toy store on Regent Street, and I used to be all like, hello everybody, so it was all like and then uh and then uh it was just I was like I was coming up to my you know 30th year. I thought I've got this is not a grown-up this is not a grown-up job for a man. Um so I left that and I became a school teacher and and loved it. Um and did that in the east end of London in Bethnal Green, where there's like proper, like like proper scalywags and gangsters, and uh did that for ten years, really loved it as I say. And then uh but what I ended up doing was um I always like I was a Wednesday warrior, so I would always go and you know pick up my comics, big shout out to Gosh, Comics in London, and I'd go and pick up my comics on a Wednesday, always loved them. And I always harboured this, you know, what if because I kind of pursued illustration and fine art far more than I had a comics, because it just I don't know, I I got I kind of got steered away from comics by people that said it wasn't realistic, so I kind of looked at other things.

Badr Milligan 10:04

Yeah.

Christian Ward 10:05

And then I and then I I ended up using comics in my teaching a lot and just kind of using it as a kind of like stealth mechanic, like you know, teaching the pupils how to do kind of body proportions and composition and design and all that stuff via comics, you know, drawing comics, and I was drawing kind of like um comic book worksheets. So each worksheet I would hand draw and there'd be a comic book page with instructions of today's lesson. This is what we're gonna learn and this is what you're gonna do. And uh and I basically had a a pupil say to me that you know if you're so good at comics, why don't why aren't you doing them? And so basically, my whole career is based on spider revenge for that one kick, and I was like, I'll show you, I'll show you.

Badr Milligan 10:52

Sometimes you just need a good kick in the ass from a asshole teenager, and uh a good son of a bitch teenager can sometimes motivate you in ways that uh that that that you don't know you need. And I've and I've heard you uh share that story before about the pupil who was kind of snarky, like, well, why don't you just do it full time? I I'm curious, have you ever had a chance to like meet him again? Have you ever seen him again?

Christian Ward 11:13

No, no, I mean it I I um it it's funny, you know, having taught for 10 years, it's not unusual for me to have like an Instagram message off a pupil and be like, Oh, Mr. Wood, you know, blah blah blah, which is really cool. And you know, there's a few pupils who like I was um I was in pastor care, so I I like I had my own form group multiple times, so I would take them from year seven, which would be like ten years old, and I would like and they'd be in like kind of I I what I is it called homeroom in the US? So I would then take I'd take them up like all the way up to kind of like 16. Um so you know, and it's any any teachers know that when you're in pastoral care, you know, it it's it's not quite being a family, but you do you grow quite strong bonds and with with pupils, and there are pupils that I'm still in touch with who are obviously you know grown men and women now with the families of their own. You know, that's quite that's quite cool. But that one particular kid He's in jail. I mean probably where he belongs, yeah. Scallywag. Probably isn't jail.

Badr Milligan 12:21

Christian, let me let me ask you something that um I've been starting to work into my my interviews. This one particular question. I had a Sanford Green, he had a pretty funny response, but I love Sanford, he's so cool. He's the best. Do you remember what you bought selfishly with your first real paycheck from comics? And I'm I'm talking like after you paid the bills and all the responsible stuff. Like, do you remember what you would the first thing you splurged on with your real first like paycheck from comics?

Christian Ward 12:49

Okay, so I have an answer for you, but it's a little bit more complex. I mean, I would say that for the first four years or so of my career, I wasn't earning any money. So I was you know, I was working for image, and anyone who you know people might not know this, but image don't pay a page rate. You know, you are you don't work for image, they just they're a conduit for distribution, right? It's mainly like a distribution deal. They are a distribution, you know, and that's why you you know you have a hundred percent of what your book makes, and that's great, but it's only great if your book sells. And obviously back in the day my my my books were selling like you know four thousand copies, which was some for me back then was incredible. Hell yeah. Um but uh but it wasn't like I wasn't I think I was earning maybe a thousand dollars for an issue. Maybe sure sure you know I mean I think for for Olympus, I think I earned like fifteen hundred dollars for the whole four issues.

Badr Milligan 13:46

Oh wow, interesting. Okay, I I don't think no one's ever actually shared the numbers like this, so this is real fascinating.

Christian Ward 13:51

Yeah, it it's I mean like what it used to be, I think I haven't done an image book for a while, although I do have one coming. The the magic number was five thousand copies. And if you sold five thousand copies, it basically worked out like for for every copy you sold, you made a dollar. Wow. But I never broke that five thousand thing. So you be you're you so you for the way it works for image, you're paying for distribution, warehouse storage, and and and and printing. Oh wow. But then you pay you a a flat fee to image. So I would have paid the same flat fee that Brian K. Rome was paying. It's the same. Sure, sure, yeah. They don't they don't have like a royalty thing. So I wasn't earning a lot of money and obviously living in London, you know, it's you know, life costs take it off. So when I started working with Matt, Matt Faction, Matt very kindly got me my first advance, and I got uh three and a half thousand dollars per issue. Oh wow, per issue. Which which might not sound like a huge amount considering I was working, you know, it was each issue was taking me back then about two months. God, if you were breaking down hourly, it'd be way under. But it felt like this huge, like wow, amazing. And so the first time I properly met Matt and got to hang out with him and like celebrate our collaboration and and and sell it celebrate the Odyssey was at Roe City Comic Con. Oh, I want to say it was about 12 years ago, something like that. And um when I was there, one of the other guests was one of my all-time favourite comic book artists, uh Mike McNola. Nice. So I was like, right, I'm gonna um I've always loved comic book art, actual original comic book art. So I um I sent Mr. McNola an email and I introduced myself, I said I'm working on this book with Matt Faction, I'm coming to Rose City Comic Con. You're like one of my favourite artists of all time. I adore your work. I'm 40 this year. I I want to buy myself a present for my 40th to celebrate action for the first time ever, earning some money. So, so to answer your question, this is what I oh love me some visual cues. Yeah, look at that. All right. So I got I got a page from um good page, an action page. Oh from Hellboy and Hell, nice. Hellboy and Hell, yeah. So so yeah, so that's probably the first thing that that it felt very indulgent. It was like, you know, it was it was um I mean back then, I mean this this would probably go for a lot more than but back then this was a thousand dollars. Yeah, which was a lot of money for me back then.

Badr Milligan 16:38

A lot of money now, but uh you're right, it would probably be triple if not quadruple. Yeah. Um yeah. So that's that is that's your answer. I love that. That might be the best answer I've ever gotten so far. Uh Christian, so uh you mentioned Mike Mignola being one of your favorites. Uh who who what other artists were uh were a big influence on you like growing up? Or even like were you showing any of the students that you were teaching art? Like were you showcasing any other what other artists were you showcasing?

Christian Ward 17:05

Um it was very like you know, when you're teaching art, it it's you have to be quite the the curriculum is all about you know, you have to have a broad kind of like cultural spectrum. You know, it can't just be kind of Western art, it can't, you know, has to be a real like you know, because you're educating them. So I mean I we when we did comic book uh art, it was we used to do I used to do a whole like kind of thing. I used to talk about um Jack Kirby, I used to talk about Jim Lee, okay and then I used to talk about um Liechtenstein, how Liechtenstein used to steal art from from comic book artists, but then what I would do is I would jump across to do you know what the super flat movement is?

Badr Milligan 17:49

A super flat movement?

Christian Ward 17:51

Super flat. Okay, so the super flat movement is uh is a uh an art movement in in Japan, which is basically uh a modern day equivalent of what pop art was back in in America. So it's basically that a whole range of kind of Japanese uh um artists who take kind of uh anime, manga, and even kind of like Japanese kind of like model building and all of that, and then they build fine arts out of it.

Badr Milligan 18:23

Had you said Takashi um Murakami, I would have been like, okay, so that. So that I didn't know that was there was a name for that style. Got it, Superflat.

Christian Ward 18:32

He was the he was the thing. So then I would look at kind of like you know, super flat Takashi, and then and then what we would do as I would we would then look at manga, and then I would like one of the one of the lessons I would do with the kids is I would take the we would we would kind of get c manga comic book pages and they would have to kind of like build like build themselves like a little window out of like a piece of paper, and then select part of that comic book page, and it could be just like a random part, and then they would have to blow that up and make it a painting.

Badr Milligan 19:03

Whoa, that's cool, that's a cool exercise.

Christian Ward 19:06

And it's all about kind of like so it was all like that, and then obviously we would do I would do a lot of Dave McKean because you you know I'm sure you've done your research, you know I'm a big McKean guy. Yeah, yeah. Uh and uh and I was you know I was definitely looking at McKean and and like you know, showing them and and and McKean was great because I had I was the head of my department, which was great because I got to choose the curriculum. When I started, I I had two members of staff kind of beneath me, kind of like that I was in kind of like you know, in authority of, and I had to kind of like decide what they were also teaching, and they were two older teachers that have been around for a long time. So someone like McKean was really great for them because I was able to say, you know, look, you know, you can look at impressionism, you can look at you know uh much older fine art, and it it and it filters into this far more than just like you know, German expressionism, and and you know, it's really rich. And it's and that's great for the kids because they can see that what the I mean a lot of how uh art GCC is in the UK, how it's kind of recorded, is how pupils can take a source and then kind of build our art around a source. And the source can be you know a still life of an apple, but it can also be looking at artists, looking at kind of like politics, news, whatever, and then what we mark is basically how they take that source and and what they do with it. Sure. Um and you know, someone like McKean, it's a brilliant way of kind of showing how you can take inspiration and make your own thing.

Badr Milligan 20:42

I got one more I I didn't think we'd be uh down further down this rabbit hole in terms of art teaching, but I could tell the passion and and how passionate you you were of teaching art. I guess what when you look back on those years, you know, do you see it as a detour from your from where you your dreams of uh being a professional comic artist, or was teaching actually what prepared you for this career? Like how important was the teaching to where you're at now? It was everything.

Christian Ward 21:08

Everything. I like this is gonna sound really saccharin and really corny, but I would not be me if it wasn't for teaching. I'm a confident guy, I'm quite happy to talk to people, I like talking to people. Put me on a stage for a panel, and I will I'll talk. I don't my heart doesn't skip a beat, I don't get nervous, I absolutely love it. And this might sound weird, but like that comes from doing assemblies. So I would do uh you know, an assembly in front of the whole school. So I had like, you know, like a thousand kids. And like when you know you can talk to a thousand kids, uh who you know it like kids of kids.

Badr Milligan 21:47

Yeah, you know what I mean. And then you can stand in front of a bunch of teenagers and not get clowned off stage is like I can conquer the world.

Christian Ward 21:54

Ex exactly. And I wasn't always good at it. You know, I did it for ten years, and over those ten years I got Better and better and better. And I, you know, when I became an art teacher, I thought it was going to be like an art equivalent of like Dead Poet Society. I thought I was going to be taking these East End kids, you know, and they're going to open their eyes and they were going to go, Wow, art's amazing and it inspires me and it makes my life better. And that's bullshit. Like it that doesn't happen. Because these kids don't give a shit, you know? Because their lives are meaner than that, and their lives are more difficult than that. And they're looking for they're looking to fit in and they're looking for Yeah, they got other priorities in front of them. Do you know what I mean? And it's not relevant for them. Um and and what I realized over 10 years was that my role as an educator wasn't about teaching them art, it was about teaching them how to be a better person. Um and so suddenly I I went from that to doing the job that I want that was my dream job as a 15-year-old. And it's hard to sort of like look at that journey and not have and even as you know, and even as an like an atheist man who doesn't believe in kind of anything other than where we are, it's hard not to see that journey and see where I am and not have a lot of gratitude and not have a lot of um you know, I'm just like it's I'm really happy about where I am, yeah. And um, you know, and like I'm quite happy just to put myself out there and Anchor's on the page, but also on a panel and also on a podcast. I think kind of like you know, we're we're only here for a very short period, and I think you know, all art, all entertainment, all all of life is just about connecting with people. I've got to a point in my life in my career where I'm very comfortable with who I am. I don't need to have absolute Batman numbers or absolute Batman fans. Do you know what I mean? That's not I'm happy with my little cohort of people who really love me, and and I'm very grateful for my readers, and um, I just love telling stories and making comics, and I think you know, when you have that, you just it's it's it's quite easy just to do this.

Badr Milligan 24:08

That's a great perspective. I that is awesome to hear. Speaking about where you're at now, like I said earlier, you're a busy man. Just to recap some things I mentioned. It was announced earlier this year that you worked out a three-book agreement with Oni Press because of how well things are going with your new series, The Forgotten Home, which is out right now. I actually just I read issue one like a couple minutes before this interview started, uh, which is one of three active and ongoing series you have out right now. The other two being The Patron for Ignition Press, and then you've got Event Horizon Pandemonium, which would be the trilogy of the Event Horizon series that you've been doing for IDW that's dropping in December. So we're looking at just this last quarter, you know, three active ongoing series. Christian, how do you keep all that straight? Do you got any tips or tricks for keeping the different stories, deadlines to do that? That's the hardest thing. That's the hardest thing.

Christian Ward 25:00

I mean, here's the thing I would I I'm gonna open the curtain, you can peek behind. Oh, yeah. The illusion is that I'm working on all these books at the same time. That is not the case. They are being released at the same time. But like, for example, the Forever Home. You've got the timestone, I see. Just say that, Chris. Just say that, Chris.

Badr Milligan 25:21

Yeah, you got the timestone.

Christian Ward 25:23

I've got it around here, so I've got it on a key ring. Um the Forever Home, me and Sammy finished working on that. God, it might be a year ago now. Oh wow. Did we finish that? I mean, John's still working on issue five of The Patron, uh, but I finished writing the patron in I want to say February. I finished it like no a good six months ago. So um, yeah, so it's it's basically I think this comes from my my time as a teacher. It comes from I'm very I'm very good at scheduling. I know I know yeah, exactly. So I know exactly what's coming out next year, because I've got a lot coming out next year. So at the moment I'm finishing off an OGN, which I'm doing with Stone Kite, which is my new partnership that was announced a few a few weeks ago. Cool. Then I'm working on something for DC that I'm drawing and writing. Oh hell yeah. That'll be announced uh Comics Pro. Okay. So I can't so I can't say anything about that. That's fine. Yeah, but people are gonna be very happy. And I'm also chipping away on an image book that's gonna be released in March, which will be announced December, which will be really exciting. Um, I'm working with Tom Muller on on uh on my design work, and and Tom sent me the logo, and oh, so cool, so cool. I was like, Well, this is good.

Badr Milligan 26:42

Um he is one of the best. You're talking about Tom Mueller, the the graphic designer? Yeah, oh that dude is like one of the best absolutely. I love any of I love all this stuff, but it's funny you uh you know you brought up uh Chris Hacker Oblivion Bar. I want to say that he had sent like our group chat a text of like who are some of your favorite graphic designers, and we all had like different answers, but I want to say my immediate thought was Tom Mueller. I was like, that dude is he's so good.

Christian Ward 27:07

Although I do I want to give a big shout out to someone who I think is really underappreciated in that realm, uh Emma Price. And Emma Emma is um Emma Price's um Souspurious uh uh wife, but she's she's incredible, and uh she has done she did the design work for Spectrum.

Badr Milligan 27:27

Oh, and uh apparently like Zootopia too.

Christian Ward 27:31

Yeah, she's brilliant, she's brilliant. And uh she she did she did Forever Home, her logo for Forever Home. Oh my god, it was just oh I could I could just put it on put it on toast and eat it.

Badr Milligan 27:42

Do you think let me get your opinion on this? Because I feel like graphic design has infiltrated comics in a I feel like it's more uh forward-facing than ever. You know, like now, like they're like, you know, like the fact that we could talk about like these graphic designers by name, I don't know if that was something that I was I was personally aware of or you know, was hearing conversations back in like you know, when I was working at a comic shop in 2000, whatever, nine, ten. I feel like graphic design now more than ever sometimes will make or break a book.

Christian Ward 28:12

Oh yeah, and I can tell you why. I can tell you how why it changed. Hickman. Oh, that all leads back to Hickman, the next point. Oh Hickman, because Hickman Hickman was a graphic designer, yeah, yeah. You know, when when he he came out on the scene, he was basically designing his books to be in place of having an artist, he was the artist, and then he was using graphic design. Because really, like I'm gonna get this is my art teacher hats on. Graphic design is it's very close to comic books because it's using art to communicate information, whereas comic books use art to communicate narrative, so they they they are very they they're really good bedfellows, and I think Hickman, because he was a graphic designer, knew this you know instinctively and just made it such a part of his thing, and people love that aesthetic, you know, and he still carries that on now, you know. That's a big part of it. Um, and I think it just made publishers bolder, it made them far more oh, people like this. I think it's a way of distinguishing between a kind of like you know, a fun comic and something a bit more reaching for something a bit edgier, a bit more it's got a little prestige to it. Exactly. So I think I think that's why uh that's happened. Yeah.

Badr Milligan 29:29

Okay, well, damn. I that was a great explanation. I feel like how many times can you just say because of Hickman? I feel like we could use that answer and maybe a couple of different scenarios. Yeah, yeah. But Christian, okay, so so I just went through and mentioned, you know, you're working across three different publishers at the moment, and it obviously sounds like you got a ton more work uh coming out next year. I wanna uh I want to ask about the three current ones. And I'm I'm gonna just say the title, and then I want you to just say who do you think would most enjoy the series? Who's the audience that you had in mind? Uh just whatever comes to mind, right? I'm gonna start off with the Forever Home, which, like I said, you're doing this with Oni Press. Uh it's up to issue two at the moment. Who is it the Forever Home for?

Christian Ward 30:09

For me. They're all for me. Um The Forever Home, who's the audience for Forever Home? I mean, I think kind of, you know, I'm I'm a huge Morrison fan, I'm a huge, you know, Brian K. Vaughan fan, you know, and I'm a big fan of of like high concept, big hook, speculative fiction that really is heady and is trying to be about something and is unpredictable, and you don't know what the next issue is gonna be, and it takes wild swings. That that those are the comic books that I love to this day. A lot of the books that I've written, and I'm still writing are very kind of horror-based. And I wanted to do a book that, although it has horror elements, w had the same ambition as some of those those books, you know, as that Brian King Bournemouth has done or Morrison or any of those people. You know, but Dennis Camps kind of like fitted into that that kind of like same section of like writers now. That I just wanted to do something really exciting and heady. It's hard to sort of talk about audience and uh and talk about like who am I writing this for? Because I think really, without sounding pretentious, when I have ideas for for stories, it is like a burning rock that I can't hold on to. Very poetic, Krishna. Very good. So I just you know, I have to just let it go, you know, and um and that really I mean I mean if I can kind of jump ahead and kind of briefly talk about the patron because I think it's interesting I mean it was completely accidental with the patron and Forever Home releasing at the same time. Even though they are vastly different books for vastly different audiences, they share a strange connection in the one of the books is about something that I love, which is art, no and very, very passionate about. Uh and it and you know it and it's it's very much about unapologetically, it's um it's a mouthpiece for everything that I want to say about art. Whereas the further home is about something that I that I hate, and that's climate change, but also kind of capitalism and billionaires and and this slow march that we are making as a as a as a kind of like civilization towards nationalism that's fuelled by fear and and you know the idea that we have to bring up the drawbridge as the world changes and people are gonna have to start moving around to survive, and you know, we're gonna have these enclaves of people like and this is mine, you can't come in because resources are short, and and it's all fear and you know, and all that. So it's a book about something I love and a book about something I hate, and the passion of both those subjects is what drives m my urge to tell those stories. You know, I feel like I I I really wanted to do a story about the climate, and and you know, I've got two small children and I worry about the world that they're gonna inherit. And so I you know, I want to tell a story not just about that, but also about people who overcome that. So it's this idea of almost wish fulfilment for me that you know it it's I mean I don't want to give anything away about the story, but you know, you you you uh at the moment we're following Tommy in the book, but like if people think Tommy's the hero, they need to pay closer attention. You you will see that that really like I've got two daughters, and and if you were asked me who's gonna save the world, I don't think it's gonna be men. You know, I don't know whether women will be able to save the world because of men, but it it I I trust them far more than I trust men. So it's so I think that's what it is. I think it's kind of like having this urge to tell a story, and that's driven by a fear, or it's and and a lot of horror comes from that, or it's driven by love, yeah, and often it's this interwinning of the two. But yeah, but I think kind of like from a you know retailer kind of like with my business hat on and thinking about the the industry, you know, it the further round was about showing a different side to my writing and and being really bold and really adventurous and trying new things, and um yeah, it's been you know only it been incredible, which is you know you mentioned it, has led to these three other books. I finished the first script of one of those books just the other week, and I've just got my notes on it, and they love it. Uh and that again, that's couldn't be any more different than anything I've done before. So I think I think it is it's it's it's one of the stories I want to talk about. And I think I'm very fortunate that I I make my living as a comic book artist. You know, I still do a lot a lot of covers and I'm doing a lot of artwork behind the scenes that hasn't come out or won't come out for a bit, and that pays the bills and that pays the mortgage and everything. And so what that means is that when I write, I'm not writing to pay the bills, I'm writing for something else, and that something else is why do I want to tell that story? Why should I be the one that tells that story? How am I improving my craft by telling that story? What am I saying if I tell that story? Who am I connecting with if I tell that story? Um, so I think I think it's um I think it's very instinctive and um and emote emotive.

Badr Milligan 35:57

I'm glad you brought up the art aspect because that is one thing I see in in commonality between these, you know, the Forever Home, the patron, and then obviously uh event horizon is where you're playing, you know, your role is is the writer, you're working with some incredible artists, which I do want to talk about here in a sec. I think I've read somewhere along the lines that around like 2020, you made like a more conscious decision to step a little more back from doing interior art to focus on writing. And when you consider like all of the amazing work, you know, prior to 2020, where you really made, you know, the Odyssey, uh, The Lost Kingdom. Invisible Kingdom. Invisible Kingdom, thank you so much. Black Bolt, you know, um, the list goes on. I am curious, you know, what motivates an award-winning artist? You know, like you won awards for your art. What what was the main driving force to step back from in drawing interiors to establish yourself as a writer? Was that always something that you wanted to take a swing at? Or if I may ask, that does it have something to do with the fact that you've worked with some of the best writers, you know, Matt Fraction, G. Willow Wilson, uh uh Aladin, um, oh my god, I'm gonna butcher his name. Um Saladin. Yes. Like, I I guess did some of working with them rub off and then maybe did that motivate you in any way? I guess where where does the the passion for writing come from?

Christian Ward 37:09

So it was always there. I mean, like, you know, if we if we were in the interview back right to the start, my first published work was some of that I wrote, you know, and and um and I always wanted to do that. And and and it was an accident that I didn't. And it was funny, I I I could dig up emails right right now and show you that that I have emails with Eric Stevenson back in 2008, where we were talking about me writing a book for Image because Eric Eric and Image have always been very supportive of my work, and then basically I met Nick Spencer, and like Nick Spencer was a writer on the rise at the time, uh, and he had a great idea with uh Infinite Vacation, which which we kind of collaborated on the story, but the initial seed of the idea was his and working with writers was more of a strategic thing because I was still learning to be a good comic book artist, so it was this well I'll learn what on the job, and uh and you know, you don't turn down Matt Fraction, and it was always this like, Well, yeah, I do want to write, but I'm very aware that I can't write as well as Matt Fraction, and I'm very aware that I can't write as well as G. Weller Wilson or Saladin or you know, or or Ramby or James Tinian. So it was like every time I was like, okay, this is the year I'm gonna write my book, I'd get an email the next l like sometimes the next day, going, Oh, it's James Tinian, would you like to work in a book? And uh and there's people you just don't say no to. But the upside of it is you're absolutely right. You don't work with like people like that without picking things up and then like kind of you know, and applying it to your own work and like you know, and and if I can interrupt, uh when you think about that, you know, working.

Badr Milligan 38:54

I mean, uh you listed like you know, that could easily just be a Mount Rushmore for someone, right? Jewel Wilson, Seldon Ram v, James, etc. Did you pick up any specific lesson or uh uh trick of the trade that you still use to this day? Like, did anyone have a significant, I guess, impact that you can recall at right now? Like, man, okay, yeah, that's I really like the way he does this. I'm gonna borrow some of that.

Christian Ward 39:18

I I don't know if I would say that specifically anything because I think I think kind of like as with art, I think you could only really be successful with a creative endeavour if it's you, not you trying to be someone else, or you know, like your own style's a bit like your own BO, it's really hard to spell your own. Um, but I I don't think my writing is like any of my past collaborators. I think I think it definitely stands out on its own, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Um, but I learned what made a successful comic, and and they all did the same thing that made a successful comic. You know, they all it's all about you know, it it's the meat and potatoes. It's like you know, in your issue one, you've got to grab that reader in five pages. You know, by the end of page five, that reader's gotta be like, right, I know what I'm doing, I know what's happening. This is I'm in, I'm in, I'm locked in. And then, you know, I've often talked to to Chris about this because he has he he wants to kind of get into comic book writing, and I've been kind of like, you know, we've been talking about this a lot, and it's uh the idea that by you know, really you your issue one, by the end of issue one, you reveal that you're not telling the reader the story that they thought they were reading, it's this oh it's also I mean like the the the the best example I always I always use is um Wicked and the Divine by uh you know Karen Gillen Gillen, yeah, and uh Jeremy McCarthy. And like, you know, they set up this brilliant hook with the you know the the gods and the you know being gods and and and them dying and then coming back and all that and the pop stars and all of that, which is uh you know, great hook for comic, and you think that's enough, I don't need anything else. But then the twist at the end of the first issue is the character that the you think you're following. I mean I I think I can spoil this, is the comic's what 20 years old now, not quite 15, and uh you know they die, and then the book becomes a murder mystery. That's a great hook, and you know, absolute Batman does it perfectly. The whole absolute line does it perfectly, this idea of of you know, you you you pull the reader in with a hook and a world, yeah, and then through the course of an issue you break that world and you spin the reader around going, Well, where the hell am I now? And that's the excitement of like tuning in next week, picking up the next issue and finding out where what's gonna go.

Badr Milligan 41:44

Can I say you're hearing you say this? Uh I I I see it in practice because I had a similar feeling reading the patron. Uh, I've read the first two issues. I'm about to I I got issue three downloaded now, and I thought I knew what the story was. Reading issue one, I'm like, okay, murder mystery art, you know. I'm like, okay, I I see where this is going until I got to that last uh page, and you know, it's the letter from Maddie. Um, I won't spoil anything, and it's like, oh shit, wait a minute. Okay, this is what I'm talking about. I immediately went ahead and jumped into issue two. So I I love hearing that. And my question for you is what's harder? Writing a first issue or landing the plane uh uh in a uh final issue, whatever whether it be a five issues or whatever. Last issue. How much how much harder? That is it like significant significant.

Christian Ward 42:32

Wow, why so? I I love a I love a first issue. I love a first issue and I really love a second issue, those are my favorites. But like, you know, the the the way that I write um is is I don't I don't overly plot. I'm very kind of like I kind of go with it, and you know, and I'm I'm like painting on the floor sort of thing, and some you know, and inevitably you can end up painting yourself into a corner, and then you're like, okay, you gotta get out of this. And I and the there's some mental like gymnastics that I really enjoy about that, and like kind of like staying on my feet and going, okay, and you have to be really in a story. And obviously, you know, when you pitch a when you pitch a comic, you you've you've got the basic layout, it's not like complet I'm not completely in the dark, I know roughly where I'm going, I know roughly where it's gonna end. But um you're you'll be writing and you and you'll have an idea, and you're like, oh that's brilliant, they're gonna do this, or this is gonna happen. And what's great about that is it means that if you're being unpredictable and you're kind of surprising yourself, then your readers are gonna be surprised. But what is not good about it is it's it is every idea you have moves you away a little bit more from where you were gonna end, and then it's all about okay, I've got I've got all these threads now. Now I've got to make sure that I've pulled it all together and I've got a tapestry and it's not a mess. And that can be really challenging. So you know, the last. Issue is always very difficult. I mean, one thing I'll say is I think particularly the Feather Home, I think the last issue could be the best issue. Oh, absolutely I'm very proud of issue five. Yeah, very proud of that. And and and then there are things in issue five of the patron that are like so you know the meme of uh Antonio Banderas when he's uh the computer. I think I think I think it's an assassin's just like yeah, well, I can't do this cool to either. But like there were bits in the end of the page where I'm like, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm killing this. Yeah, wait till they drop this on their heads.

Badr Milligan 44:38

Yeah, I'm just gonna wait until like, I don't know, March or something for people to read it. Coming from that artist's first approach, working with all these different writers, uh I'm I'm assuming they all it sounds like it, you kind of confirmed it, but you know, they all have a different approach to maybe how they obviously how they write, how they approach a story. I imagine also scripting the scripts that you got probably differed from everyone. I guess now that you're on the other side where you know you're taking lead as writer on most of these projects, working with artists directly. Did you pick up any, I guess, tricks of the trade in terms of scripting, like how you deliver scripts to uh artists? You know, I imagine that like you know, you've got the artist mind, you're writing. So like I don't I don't know. I guess I what is yours scripting? Is it very artist friendly considering you are an artist? It is very it is very artist friendly.

Christian Ward 45:27

Uh, but I do have to say I have been very lucky with all of my collaborators. I mean it, you know, if you were the only collaborator I wouldn't work with again is Nate Nate Edmondson because he's a piece of beep. Um leading call, come at me. Um but um like all the you know I mean like I I you know if Matt was to say to me, Do you want to do another book? I'd be like, when? That's a man, yeah. Of course. And you know, if if Willow was do you want to do another book? I'd be like, when? James, I'd be like, when? You know, I've been very, very fortunate. And even though like kind of like my career now is is about myself as a writer, either a writer or a writer artist, you know, there are still writers that I'd be like I've either worked with that I would jump at again, um, or like you know, new people, certain new people. I mean Grant Morrison is still my mount rush for people I'd love to work with, Brian K. Vaughan. But uh I think you know, I don't know if I would have to I say I would have picked up any things, but I know how I felt with certain scripts and I know what really works, and and because I'm an artist, I know how long things take. So I you know, I'm not gonna I'll give you an example.

Badr Milligan 46:48

Yeah, yeah. What are some considerations that you try to keep in mind?

Christian Ward 46:51

When I did um Event Horizon Doctor Scent, which was my first Event Horizon book, and I did it with Tristian Jones. Uh Tristian's got a very detailed style, very rendered, you know, every panel is fully drawn, every background is fully drawn. He's talked about this publicly, so it's I I'm not like throwing him under the bus. And it's not like we were late, so it was you know, it's it's it wasn't a problem, but it it was quite stressful because it it you know it it it took him a lot a while to kind of fly, yeah, rightly so, to to do the work because he was he put a lot of work into it. And so when we did issue four, I don't know whether you read the book, but issue four is our blood orge issue and it's and it's a time loop, so it's it's a repeating sequence over and over and over. And and although that was that was kind of what I what I had in mind, it changed in the scripting purely as a function to allow Tristian to repeat panels. So when I did the script, I was like, okay, so not every page was a repeat, but like there was a few pages that literally repeated where he just had to change little bits, like as like kind of like characters, the hands were becoming bloodier, bloodier, bloodier. And so he was just adding to it as he went on, and then there were other things where Panna would repeat, so I'll be like, This is panel you know X again. It's my favourite issue of that whole like first series, but it was it was very much me being aware that Trishan was putting all this work in and me being conscious of like I want to make sure that he's healthy and not working himself to the bone and give him a legitimate reason to kind of buy some time back. I am very, very kind of like aware of the wear and tear on an artist and and the amount of hours that it takes for someone to do a page.

Badr Milligan 48:47

That page aside, give me another example of you receiving a finished page that was maybe completely different from what you envision, but even better. Oh, Sammy Cavalli. Hmm, good choice. That dude's awesome.

Christian Ward 49:00

Dude, why is he not a star? Like I don't know, people are sleeping on it. I don't understand, like he is incredible. Incredible. Like, you know, we did our first book, Machine Gun Wizards, and he was my first artist. Um he took a chance on me, and I, you know, I will love him forever for it. Um he is a phenomenal storyteller who is able to extrapolate what you want from a story and from a dramatic scene, and just he does this thing in his work, he does it throughout the work. I couldn't necessarily pick any one page because it's it's it's all over. He does almost like these little pickup shots of like people's faces, like the emotional like and those aren't in the script, he just puts them in, like sprinkles them over, like like seasoning, emotional seasoning, and it and it's uh the way he uses layouts. I mean, there's one page in particular that that comes to mind with with Sammy, and it's I can't go into detail, which makes for great podcasts, uh because it's from it's from issue four of the Forever Home. And and obviously people have read it now, so it's not spoiling it too much, slight spoilers if you haven't read it, but you know, Forever Home is about kind of parallel time, it's about time and things happening at different times and then at the same time, and it and it's about kind of like the inside of the house and the outside of the house and this parallel split. And he does this thing, there's a thing that happens in issue three that before that is is kind of quite dramatic and it and it's kind of it's mirrored, right? So it's moved in one place and another place. Notice I didn't say house. Um and the way he designs the page, and this this leads us all the way back to kind of talking about graphic design because he he what he has a mind like a graphic designer because he's using graphic design uh via comic illustration to kind of communicate dramatic importance and emotional clarity. And it's it's the way that he designed the page to kind of mirror and show you these things happening at the same time was phenomenal. And he's like, I love working with him. I mean, uh like this is a slight exclusive and a slight spoiler, but like I will say that the script that I just finished is for Sammy. So I will be I'll be working with Sammy again at only. Um, and that will be cut that will be coming down the line.

Badr Milligan 51:35

I like his style a lot. I'm I'm looking forward to seeing more of his work. And hearing you say that, I got a follow-up question. Was it instant or did it take some conscious effort to how can I phrase this? Because I'm curious now, like how does an artist like yourself who knows exactly how he wants something to look learn to trust someone else's interpretation? Was that like an instant thing or something that you had to kind of like work at? Okay, I'm not sure. You have to let go.

Christian Ward 52:01

You have to. And it was instant, you know, but it was it it was only instant after I made the decision to do it. So, like, if we kind of rewind, and you know, I mentioned earlier how I always wanted to be a comic book writer artist, and I kept getting these offers of working with people I really respected and wanted to work with. And so I realized that the only way I'm gonna make a comic as a writer is if I work with another artist. If I wait for me as an artist to be available, it ain't ever gonna happen. So I'm gonna work with another artist, and so when I made that decision, I had to let go. Because it's based on my own feelings. If I was presented a script and then I drew a page, and then that writer was just like, Oh, I don't like this, can change this, or do it this way, I'll do this, do it that way. That would piss me off. I'd be like, Why have you asked me to do it if you're not gonna trust me to do it? So I applied the same reasoning. If I think the my way of doing it is the best way of doing it, you'll just do it yourself. I'll do it myself. And that's why I did see your madness because that was my story. I wanna I had a very particular way that I wanted to do it. Now that's not to say that that there is the occasional time where like there might be a page that that has to be done in a particular way because of a storytelling beat or something like that. So it might be that I'd be like, well, if we do it like this, that'll convey this. Um but like it's always got to it's always got to be through the lens of the artist in their way. You can't project manage. I mean, I will say, you know, I I'm working with uh Hernan Gonzalez at the moment on um on the Event Verizon pandemonium, and he and he's he's incredible. Uh and he's been very gracious and has asked me to kind of guide him and and to just him. Now I will say, like, 19 pages out of the 22 pages, I don't need to do anything, you know. But occasionally I might be like, okay, I think if we do this this way or this way, it'll be even better. Um so but like you know, that's him asking me. Yeah, um, but but in regards to like, I mean, I don't need to tell John Pearson anything. Like, what am I gonna tell John Pearson? He knows what he's doing. You know, what am I gonna tell Sammy? He knows what he's doing.

Badr Milligan 54:22

Yeah, trust your collaborators.

Christian Ward 54:24

Yeah, and that's the thing. The moment that your input is important is in the choice of who you're working with, and then that's it. Then you step back. Well said.

Badr Milligan 54:32

Speaking about letting go, I'm glad you brought that up because that brings us to uh one of my favorite segments of the show, the short box friends and family segment is a part of the show where I let go of asking the questions and I let someone else ask the questions. And in your case, Christian, it was pretty easy to get folks to volunteer to submit questions for you. Because I don't know if you know this, but you're well loved out here. You are loved out here in these streets, and I normally cap voicemails to under a minute. I normally ask folks, please keep it short and sweet, under a minute, but there was no stopping some of these voicemails from going a little long because they had a lot of love to express. So I want to play you uh three different voicemails. All right. And uh I want to get your reaction and then there's some questions for you. So here we go. Okay, the first up, and I'm gonna keep this as a surprise because they introduced themselves and I won't steal their thunder. So here's our first voicemail.

Chris Wacker 55:29

Hello, Short Box Nation. This is Chris Hacker here from the Oblivion Bar, a comic book podcast. I am a frequent flyer here on the short box and uh, of course, the self-appointed chairman of the Christian Ward Fan Club. Firstly, I would like to say how thrilled I am to have two of my favorite people in comics finally sit down for a conversation. I've always said Badr is among my favorite interviewers in our space and often someone I look to emulate when conducting my own interviews over on the OBP. As for Christian, see above my role as chairman of the Christian Ward Fan Club. Not only have I been a dedicated fan of Christian's work since first reading Blackbolt back in 2017, not to mention everything he has done since, but we have also become very close since, and Christian is someone I consider to be one of my best friends in the world. Sam goes for Botter. Okay, so enough preamble, and I apologize for my long-windedness, but here's my question. As I mentioned a moment ago, Christian's work on Blackbolt really transformed my early view of the medium. Previously, my preferences mostly leaned into the big two Jim Lee house style when it came to interiors. While I still appreciate the Dan Moras and the Daniel Sampiers of the world, discovering Christian's work back then really captivated me and altered my taste in comics immensely. To this day, I tend to lean more into the opposite of the house style and really value a unique voice that tells their story the way they want to. So, I would love an answer from both of you. Can you think of an artist or possibly even a series that really transformed your preferences in comics and made you appreciate those singular, wholly unique voices in comics? Thanks for allowing me to ask my question here. And I love both of you guys. Have fun and peace out.

Badr Milligan 57:04

Yeah, I love that he adds the outro music. It's like the best produced voicemail I've ever gotten in the world. Insane. That was once again Chris Hacker, one half of the Oblivion Bar podcast. I mean, uh nothing but love there. For the both of us at that.

Christian Ward 57:17

I was like, look at him included me. Dude, I love that man. I love that man so much.

Badr Milligan 57:22

Real quick, before we get to his question, uh, which I thought was a really good question, I do want to go ahead and uh uh carry on the tradition. I heard David uh Harper thank you on his show when you were on last month for starting the Kickstarter that helped Chris get the San Diego Comic-Con, which not only is a stand-up gentleman move, but in a way, it kind of helped me get the San Diego Comic-Con. Because I roomed with Chris, and had he not been able to raise funds to get out there, I wouldn't have been able to get there. So I owe you a thank you in a way as well.

Christian Ward 57:51

Oh, you're very welcome. And honestly, you know, I you know, I I appreciate the the kind of like the the the thank yous, but like it it's it was a very selfish thing what I did because I wanted to see Chris. You know, I knew I was going to San Diego, yeah. I was just like like I wanted to see him. Yeah, let's get him out of here. You know, so I basically used the comic community, abused them, manipulated them to get him out there. And they came in the droves. And it wasn't, you know, people think it was charity. No, it was just selfish. I just wanted him there.

Badr Milligan 58:24

Yeah, no, it was great. Uh, but okay, yeah, I think his question was what is a comic creator artist that we appreciate for having a singular voice that might have like impacted us or changed the way we look at comics. I think I'm doing uh paraphrasing that. Christian, I've already listened to his voice about the second time I've sat through that. Um, so I've already had time to think. I'll go first to buy you a little bit of time. And I'm gonna say, uh I'm gonna go maybe a different route and go the manga route, Nako Erasawa, Nako Arasawa. When I think about someone who has, you know, writer, artist, singular vision, he immediately comes to mind because even though it's it's the same guy, all of his bodies of work, 21st Century Boys, Pluto, 20th Century. Oh my god, uh uh Billy Bat is the new one that's out, you know, uh Master Key. I mean, obviously I'm a big fan, I can continue going on. They all feel different, but the same. You know, like he is a master of building tension and making you care about regular people, you know. Like I love the surreal nature of his work. Like outside of Pluto, like for the most part, there isn't anything fantastical going on in these books. 20th Century Board, you could probably make an argument. It does get very trippy, but a lot of his stuff is like just more surreal. There's an atmosphere to his work that I think he captures so well, and and I see that through line in all of his work. He's got such an amazing, unique voice that you just know it's an Irasawa comic. Well, you know what you get when you go into it, but just like you said, by the end of the first volume, you're like, never mind anything I thought I knew out the fucking window.

Christian Ward 1:00:03

I remember reading 20th Century Boys when it was coming out. I was picking up the little manga digests as they were being released. And I'd never I'd read Akira, that was the only manga I'd ever read. And and I picked up 20th Century Boys, and it was as you say, just like what? What? And then like and then you'd be like, you'd pick up another volume and you you'd be following this side character. You're like, okay, so I guess they're the lead now. What the hell's going on? Just amazing, incredible, because it's a great choice. Yeah.

Badr Milligan 1:00:35

Who do you guys?

Christian Ward 1:00:35

So for me, I mean it's it's it I it it's gonna feel obvious. I mean, we can we can talk about this gentleman here, Mignola. I mean, it's the what I was gonna say was it was obviously gonna be David Keane because McKean, when I read Arkham Asylum Series House on a series earth, I was um I was twelve when that book came out. And my mum and dad bought it to me for Christmas, the like the the Titan Books um edition. Um and I I remember reading it Christmas Day twelve years old, and just previously all the books I'd seen were were pen and ink. I'd never seen a book that was painted and had photography and had painted photography and colour, and that just it kind of just went a temeneric if you know. So that was the thing that you know when Chris was incredibly graciously saying that I had broadened and his broadened his horizons, that's what broadened my horizons. Um and then now as as an artist who's who's been working for all the years I have, and and as a comic book reader who's been reading for decades and decades, I think when I look at Magnola's work, I see an artist who really inspires me because it's almost like sculpture, like every year that passes, he takes a little bit more off, a little bit more of the fat off, and he reveals a purer, purer, pure version of the art that he wants to create. You know, you know, Hellboy becomes more stylized and less lines, and like less lines, but more thought, more more kind of decision. And it's you know, I know a lot of people that can't stand McNolah's work and just look at it and it turns them off. But for me, he I know.

Badr Milligan 1:02:33

I don't ever want to meet these people. I don't think I've ever met anyone that has had anything negative to say about Mignola. He's they are crazy, you know what? It must be that it must be that kid, it must be that scallywag growing up to be a fucking hater. Scallywag.

Christian Ward 1:02:47

Yeah, yeah. Um, but he's just you know, he's incredible.

Badr Milligan 1:02:52

I think that is one of the best ways I've heard Hellboy described. You're right, it is a very lean comic. Yeah, just it you just you get like pieces of Hellboy, his history, his lore, you learn like something new about his character and every new story. It's like a it, and and it doesn't feel like Mignola wastes time drawing anything that isn't pivotal. I mean, literally, some of his pages are just Hellboy with a white background, you know. Like he's very economical with the things he draws. Yeah, well said. Okay. Big shout out to Chris. Very good uh question for us. All right, I got two more voicemails for you. Let's get on to our next one. Here it is.

Ben Kingsbury 1:03:27

Hey, Christian, I'm Ben Kay, owner of Gotham City Limit, uh epic comic shop down here in sunny Jacksonville, Florida. Thanks so much for taking the time to be here today. So I absolutely love Forever Home. Issue two just dropped yesterday, and I don't want to spoil too much. However, the story and relationship between Tommy and his dog Dodo had me all in the fields. Humans are like fairy tales to dogs. What a quote. We have an immortal shop dog at our shop, Pacer, the amazing shop dog. So this really hit home for a lot of us. Is or was there a real life animal that influenced you in writing this tremendous story? Well, I'll leave you here to answer. Thanks so much for what you do. We literally couldn't do it without you. And remember, short box nation, always take it to the limit.

Badr Milligan 1:04:18

Peace. That was Ben Kingsbury of Gotham City Limit Comic Shop, bringing the energy.

Christian Ward 1:04:23

Very cool, very cool. And yeah, you know, big shout out to him and all the other comic book retailers. You know, I think kind of all successful comics starts in comic retailers. So, you know, as much as I try and kind of like come on podcasts and spread the word and sell my work, it's it's the it's the people working on the ground troops. It's ground troops, you know. So big shout big shout out to everyone working in comic retail. You know, you are the backbone. But in answer to his question, thankfully, no. I mean I don't want to spoil it, but there's the dodo isn't based on a real event that happened to me. However, it it it is inspired by my love of dogs. You know, I you know, I have a oh he's not in here at the moment. I have a dog called Thor, uh, who's a little black pug who I love to bits, and and he's the reason why me and my wife have children. Uh because we uh when we first got together, we were both we don't want kids, that's not that's not for us. And then we got we got Thor, and um just like it was the capacity to love grows when you have a dog. Yeah. And then you have more of more of a heart to fill with love, and it just feels wonderful, and then that led us to to go, you know, keeping something alive is actually quite cool. And and then we had kids, and then it you know, it's more and you know uh our family growing, as I say, with my my two young daughters who are both six and nine, and Thor kind of like growing up with us. There's something really special there, and just kind of like sharing a house with a with an animal that that I cannot express what Words but can only express love. It's it's a dog loves you just so fully. Um you know, and it it's just the um just the idea of like I I come from a family that have my auntie who passed away last year who I who I love dearly. I used to go and stay with my auntie and uncle in the summer holidays when my parents were working, and they always had dogs. The the most wonderful thing was when a dog would sleep on the bed with me. I always sort of talk wistfully about Thor, not a common character, my dog, uh, and just think, you know, what does he think of us? And and you know, and I always have this joke going, Do you think he thinks he's gonna grow up into a human? Do you think he thinks he's us? Um, you know, I just I I'm I'm really fond there's a real beauty in in in sharing this world with with another creature and and and having having a like a real soulful love for another creature that you know that loves you back, you know. It's just it's such a beautiful thing. And like it was really like I mean thematically it just really works for for Abraham because it's all about time, but it's also it was a way of of you know because I'm doing a book that's about you know a lack of humanity in a lot of the characters. I really wanted to express just an absolute abundance of uh humanity and and and and that was with because of our love of dogs. Um so yeah.

Badr Milligan 1:07:33

That was a very heartfelt answer, Chris. I think Ben is going to tear up here in this. That is beautiful.

Christian Ward 1:07:38

Oh I hope he does. I hope he does.

Badr Milligan 1:07:40

Okay, I got one more voicemail for you. I'm gonna play it right now. Here we go.

Gregg Katzman 1:07:43

Hey, Eisner award-winning comic book creator, Christian Ward. This is Greg Katzman, who does not have any awards, but when Botter reached out, I won the award for being able to contribute to this episode as your friend, and that that means a lot. Uh, I just wanted to pop in and say thank you for everything, dude. Um, you are just such a genuinely kind and brilliant comic book creator. Uh, the work that you pour into all the comics speaks volumes, and the recognition is there, and then some when it comes to, you know, the the reviews from both critics and fans, the reactions from retailers, that all truly speaks for itself. But then you also go above and beyond, and you have just been tremendously impressive and creative when it comes to your ongoing promotions and passion for the work that you're doing. And uh it has been a real joy and privilege to work with you to help promote uh all the amazing work you've done on Event Horizon. I can't wait for fans to obviously get their hands on the final volume of your trilogy. And uh I am just uh here to always support and be enthusiastic about anything else you do, regardless of the publisher logo on the cover. So once again, thank you for everything. Uh and just thank you for being you. Take care.

Badr Milligan 1:09:10

Hell yeah. Greg Katzman at IDW. Yeah, no, that was awesome. I I was like, I told uh because he he was like, hey, let me know if like he was like, please listen back and tell me what you think, honestly. And I was like, dude, my name's like Christian Ward, but I'm blushing listening to this as if it was directed for me.

Christian Ward 1:09:26

That's so nice. Hey, Greg's lovely, and like you know, I've been really forthright with him and and just wanting to be really clear with him about how much I appreciate him. I'm sure you know this, he's such a hard worker. Uh yeah. I mean, a number of times I've had emails from him on a Saturday and Sunday, and Greg has got a young family as well. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? You know, he cares so much, and like meeting him in San Diego was lovely, and you know, it it's this industry is like you know, when I'm doing comics, you know, cool yeah, I'm working and it and it is work, but but also you know, going all the way back to kind of like what I was talking about at the start, like I'm doing this because I love it. You know, I really, really love it, and I love connecting with people. And for me, you know, time is precious and and I don't always have time to do the things that I want to do and promote as much as I want to promote, but I I have no embarrassment about promotion or you know, shyness or you know fake kind of modesty, you know, because I'm really proud of the work that I do and I'm really proud of my collaborators. You know, look at John Pearson and look at Tristian Jones and and you know and look at Hanan and and look at Sammy. You know, I I I always remember like kind of coming into this industry and I remember things that of people being kind to me.

Badr Milligan 1:10:46

Who was a big uh who was maybe the earliest champion of your work that was working in the industry that you can recall? There's two.

Christian Ward 1:10:54

Okay. One is Frank Whitley. Oh wow. Um that was a hell of a co-sign. Or or or Vinny, uh, for those in the know. Yeah. Um and um he um I met I met Frank Vinnie at um at a signing uh for All Star Superman, which kind of dates this was. And Olympus hadn't come out yet, but it was happening. Like I'd I it'd been greenlit and I was working on it. And I remember I went to meet him at Forbidden Planet where he was doing a signing. Even though our work is very different, uh he uh he's such an inspiration to me the way he paces storytelling and and how cinematic his work is, but also completely comic booking and completely in love with the medium. And I remember I remember um showing him my work and he was so impressed with it, he invited me to come and stay. So I I stayed with Jamie Smart, who was the colourist, not Jamie Smart, but Jamie oh shoot, Jamie Grant. Yeah, Jamie Grant, uh at um in Glasgow, and I drew part of Olympus in Ho Street Studios, which is where Vinny worked, and I watched him draw all Batman and Robin, the first issue of Batman and Robin, before long before it would have been announced. He was really he was really and he gave me a cover for Olympus. In fact, I have that here. So he gave me and he he did the cover for free, and he gave me the original artwork for free.

Badr Milligan 1:12:19

Oh, that's awesome! So Frank Quietly did a variant cover for Olympus. Yeah, isn't that cool?

Christian Ward 1:12:24

Yeah, that's um so so yeah, him, and then the other guy was actually J H Williams. He was very kind to me, and and actually he hooked me up with Vertigo back in the day. And um I did a I did a kind of like uh Constantine like five-page sample script, and I did and like and I just I wasn't ready at the time. Um and you know, it's taken it took me it took me 12 years to kind of um actually do work at VC from that point. But but J H Williams had had seen my work and was very kind to me and actually stuck his neck out and like introduced me to like you know big editors and got my foot in the door. I wasn't ready and I it never led to anything then, but uh I like I always appreciated that. And so I think kind of like you know, I I yeah, I don't know how long my career's gonna be. I I hope I've got another 20 years. You know, you never know in this industry. Um and I think the only thing I'm just very aware that you know it's a ladder, and the people that you pass on the way up, you're gonna be passing on the way down. You know, I I'll often like as much as I can if I can help someone to kind of like you know, I'll introduce people to editors, I'll I'll kind of if I know an editor's if an editor asks me if I'm available for something, but I'm not, you know, I'll be like, Well, I know someone who is, you know, what about this guy or this this this person or you know, for for event horizon, I was very conscious that I wanted to make sure that it wasn't like an all-boys club, and so we you know, I I was very kind of like, can we get some kind of like you know, um some even non-binary or kind of female colourists on it? So it's just so you know, it's not just men, men, men, men, men. Yeah, it's good looking at it. And my god, and like that did that work out. I mean, the colourists that we've had on that, like Pip Pip Martin, are you kidding me? She's incredible Nan Xenon in on on Inferno. Wow. Um, and we've got uh uh a um uh a young lady called oh shoot, I forget. Let me see if I can pull it up.

Badr Milligan 1:14:32

Deborah is it uh she's not credited on Liga Comedy Geeks, it might be too early. Yeah, might be too early.

Christian Ward 1:14:38

It's Deborah something like I I have tagged her a couple of times. I think that was uh apologies, Deborah, but she's incredible as well. But you know, but just going up that's going off the point a little bit. I just I think life is short. Why not be happy? Why not spread why not spread a bit of love about you know there's there's there's too much negativity, and like um trust me, if people cross me, they know about it. Like I'm not all that, you know, I I I've got my shit list, I've got my shit list, it's like Chris will tell you.

Badr Milligan 1:15:05

Well, you know, I I think the the takeaway here is be kind to others because you never know when it might come back. And I like that you know we we're ending with uh Greg's voicemail because one thing I do appreciate about Greg is how much he loves comics in the industry. He does. And regardless of, I think you said it in the the voicemail, regardless of what publisher logo is on that comic, he's you know, he's a supporter of you, he's a fan of you. But I do want to go ahead and emphasize that Event Horizon, which we haven't had a chance to talk about a lot because we have a lot of other topics and rabbit holes that go down, but Event Horizon Pandemonium will come out December 2nd. This will be the the the trilogy of this Event Horizon series that you've been doing. Uh, it started out with uh Event Horizon uh Dark Descent, which was supposed to be a prequel to the movie, and then you had the sequel series Event Horizon Inferno. Well, now you've got Pandemonium, which takes place a century or so after the original movie. I mean, this is pretty fucking impressive that you got to do a trilogy because I don't know how often other comics based on movies or IPs go any longer than like one series, much you know, five issues. It normally feels like it's a quick in and out. But like, was it always the plan to have you do a trilogy, or was it just because the first was so good?

Christian Ward 1:16:17

So it's a bit of a bit of both. I really wanted to do it, so I'm good friends with Hervantos, uh, and I've been for many years, and so I got kind of like the the lowdown that IDW had got the license for Van Horizon and made it very known to her that please consider me as a writer because I would love that. And so Nick Nina, who's our incredible editor, sent me an email and was like, What have you got? What what what do you want to do? And I had to send a pitch and be like, This is what I want to do, this is what I'm gonna do with the story. I watched the film that weekend and just had a very clear idea of what I was gonna do with it. You know, it was very inspired by Andor in many ways that was on TV at the time.

Badr Milligan 1:16:59

But that season two, by the way. Oh, let me get if I may pause. Andor to me did not get enough credit for how fucking amazing it was, especially that second season. When I say me and my wife were like staying up until the like 3 a.m. for the release, because it was just so riveting, so moving. And then I think it was also a story that we needed that just reflected like everything going on politically, socially in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christian Ward 1:17:25

I I mean like I I almost can't believe Disney did it.

Badr Milligan 1:17:28

Same, same. I had to keep double checking, like, wait, this is on Disney Plus?

Christian Ward 1:17:32

Yeah, you kidding Plus, yeah. Some of the things they had the bravery to say and question and and just shine the lights on, amazing. But yeah, but I wanted to sort of like do something like like and or not like I'm I'm not politically that would be appropriate with Event Horizon, but but what I wanted to do was something that changed the context of the film so that anyone would come in and go, huh? Oh, what's that then? That's that's not how I thought okay, that changed the things. And so I had this idea, but this idea kind of like took the universe some and then went and kind of exploded it. And so basically in the first pitch, there was a section that was sort of like this is kind of where it could go. So it was kind of like a roadmap, very, very vague roadmap. Like so I've got this sense that this is where it's gonna go, and then we got the numbers on issue one and they were really good. You know, and I think kind of like there was three reasons why that happened. I think one, Event Horizon fans were were hungry for it, yeah.

Badr Milligan 1:18:39

They wanted more content.

Christian Ward 1:18:40

Two, I approached it really seriously and with a lot of love for the for the film. You know, I wasn't trying to kind of like be better than the film, I was like trying to be in service of the film. And three, Tristian Jones. You know, he he'd been away from comics, he'd been away from comics for so long, and he kind of like brought a realism to it that just tied everything up beautifully. And so we got we got really good sales, and then and then each issue sold out, and then each issue the numbers went up, and so by the time issue two came out, inferno was already greenlit. Damn. And so when I pitched Inferno and went more into the thing, that was very much like, and this it was very in that pitch, it was it was very like it's gonna go, it's gonna end here, and then that's gonna lead to this.

Badr Milligan 1:19:28

So it sounds like the fact that you had like a strong roadmap and confidence gave uh the uh it sounded like the director and and the the rights holder a lot of confidence in you, like, okay, this guy is is serious about this. I guess that's maybe a big difference is the fact that you pre-planned, you had a clear roadmap, and you were treating the the the lore with the respect it deserves.

Christian Ward 1:19:49

I've had a little contact with Philip Eisner, who's the writer on the film, and he's a he's adored what we do.

Badr Milligan 1:19:55

Awesome, awesome.

Christian Ward 1:19:56

We don't we don't get any notes, we we they they they just love it.

Badr Milligan 1:20:00

I read the first issue of the first series, uh, which once again is Descent. I was like really intrigued by it. As someone that has not watched the movie, that doesn't have the baggage of of that, I went into it like I don't really know you know what the premise is, let me go with it. And I like the first issue a lot. The only thing that stopped me from going further is that I I was like kind of cherry-picking your um your work. I was like, oh, let me start with the first issue of Patron. And then I was like, oh, this shit is really good. Let me go to issue two. All right, there's no more. All right, moving on. And the only reason I I moved on from uh Event Horizon is I started reading your Batman story, and I was like, oh, I gotta finish this. So I'm going to go back to Event Horizon, but let me ask you this. As someone who has not watched the film, how much more would I enjoy the series if I watched the film first?

Christian Ward 1:20:46

You can read it without. Okay. You can read it without. I mean, like you'll have an interesting experience by reading it and then going and watch the film.

Badr Milligan 1:20:53

Hmm.

Christian Ward 1:20:54

Okay. It will you'll view it differently than somebody who hasn't read the book. And the thing is, like, what's really cool is like Paramount are like you know, as far as Paramount are concerned, and for the bicep, this is lore. This is the oh that's cool. Yeah, they can't do it. Um, and obviously Inferno was just like, you know, that was really great and really well received, and then but Pan I mean like I love Dark Descent, but Pandemonium is I I'm just like I'm hitting my stride. Like I know exactly what I'm doing, you know, and and and Nick Nino has has been brilliant. And I just want to I just I just want to shout out to Nick in case I mean Greg might be listening to this since he knows that I I'm gonna be responding. So I'm gonna say this about Nick because even if Nick isn't listening, Greg might very well say, Oh, Nick, you've got to hear this. Because I don't think editors get full credit as much as they should. Now, like each of these books has been my kind of idea and my kind of like okay, so Doc Descent, I wanna do this. Inferno, I want to do this. But with Pandemonium, I had an idea of what I wanted to do. Like I but there was a point I was wondering if I was gonna have to not do it because I I wanted to kind of like top or at least be as good as Dark Descent and Inferno, because what's the point if it's you don't want it to be going down, you want it to be going up. And I had a an idea of where it was gonna be. And I'm gonna let you into a little secret. I had this funny idea that I that the first book was gonna be alien, the second book was gonna be alien, so I action holler, and then the third book was gonna be a prison break, like Alien 3. So I had I that was I wanted to do that. So I knew it was gonna be a prison, and I knew it was gonna be this isn't a spoiler, no, it's not spoilers because the annualization I know it was gonna be a prison in the chaos realm, but I couldn't make it work, and I was like going, well, what's it gonna be like and it was it was Nick that kind of cracked the story for me, and it was um he kind of um we we spoke on the phone quite a lot, we will still do, and um he um he basically just was I've been thinking, what about heaven is real and it's worse? That was Nick. So if you see that all over the promo stuff, yeah, I haven't seen it. That didn't come from me, but that came from Nick, and it was the final piece of the jigsaw, I was like, that's it, that's exactly what I'm gonna do, you know. And it was just like that final idea of using heaven, and of course it would make perfect sense, you know. We've been looking at kind of like panda, you know, we've been looking at the ideas of kind of biblical hell, and and it makes sense, it all fits in, and it was the final idea, the final kind of piece that helped me shape the rest into like and find the story and and really work out what I was doing, and so I you know, I I um I really want to kind of make sure that I'm saying that out loud, and I know Nick, I know I know Nick doesn't want me to he was I told him I was gonna sort of not on this particular podcast start, I would say to people that that's a great idea. I'm gonna tell people that was yours. He was like, Yeah, yeah. No no man, no no no, but you know, that's comics is collaborative, and and and you know, particularly like a licensed book like this, and I you know, he helped me, like a good editor does, he helped me find that missing piece, and and then you know, I was able to bring the story home.

Badr Milligan 1:24:28

Yeah, big shout out to Nick Nino. I love hearing I love hearing editors get their props. Okay, Christian, I I've not asked one Batman question, and I'm like, do I save it for a part two? Because it's already like 12:30 your time. Oh good. It's lunchtime. Oh, yeah, but okay, okay, uh, for the audio listeners, um, if you've read uh Batman City of Madness, then yeah, you're probably familiar with The Batman Below. Uh Christian is sharing a prototype of this amazing like figure that they're coming up. There's so they're making Batman B uh the Batman Below a figure, which I think is like I think that's a huge milestone. You know what I'm saying? When you get like uh action figure of an original quote unquote original character that you make, I mean it's like, come on now. He's like in the physical space, he's in the meat space.

Christian Ward 1:25:14

I I I can I can dyke him off. It was you know, and that's that's like um in art that they're called and in art, okay. That's yeah, and it's and it's he's got these wings and like it's gonna be a oh but when is it supposed to when is it supposed to come out?

Badr Milligan 1:25:28

I don't think they've announced when okay. I realize toy releases like you might see a photo of a preliminary prototype mold model, and it'll be like years before you see the final product. I know it's next year, but I don't know. Oh, okay. Well that's even better. Okay, how about I I I asked just one Batman-related question and then we'll wrap this up and maybe save more questions for a part two later. But I want to just say City of Madness, amazing. It lives up to all of the hype that I was noticing in 2024 when the book came out, and you know, it was getting all this praise. I mean, uh Chris and Brad couldn't shut up about it. And I'm someone that's always perpetually late on things, and especially if they have a lot of hype. In my head, it's like, yo, if it's that good, it'll be that good when I eventually get around to it. I'm never in like the biggest rush. So I was like, okay, fine, like to sit down with this. I have a reason to read this. And man, it was it was truly amazing. That was an amazing what it was like 45 pages each because it's DC Black label. So almost like close to 150 pages. And I like tore through those. Obviously, the art was something to behold. I love the whole Cthulhu is uh uh uh what's the phrase of it? Thank you. I love the look craftian angle to it, but most importantly, I love the core of the story, the emotion of the story about trauma and and how it manifests. And and you know, like you're looking at the trauma of Harvey Dent and what he became. But then the ventriloquist, like I felt like I got like had feels for my, you know what I'm saying? Like it just like such a beautiful story about trauma and dealing with it and and how like our parents and siblings can also impact it was just it was awesome, Christian. And getting here to talk to you and and want to get to know you a little better, I'm like, oh, it makes sense. This guy wears his heart on his sleeve. Of course, he can tell a very rich emotional story. So the only question I'm gonna ask you about City of Madness is what did you personally discover about Bruce Wayne through that story that you hadn't considered prior?

Christian Ward 1:27:23

Uh I found out that he was Alfred's son.

Badr Milligan 1:27:26

Hmm. Which was also a very beautiful that that letter at the end, that last page where they're they're hugging, it's uh I was like fucking getting teary-eyed.

Christian Ward 1:27:36

Yeah, yeah, it was it was I don't know why it didn't occur to me. I was just like, oh, it's his son, like for all intents and purposes. It's his you know, it's his child. Uh and that was the and being a parent and and and you know, worrying about your kids going out going off into the world, and it was that kind of like emotional connection and and thinking, you know, and and I think with that story, it was so wild and and you know, cosmic horror and you know bizarre and far-fetched that it had to have had to have an emotional core that everyone would understand and connect with. And you know, that's that's that's what I did.

Badr Milligan 1:28:16

I think what I also love too, because I I know that you've called it like the a spiritual successor to Arkham Asylum, but I don't think you gave enough props to how it fits into like the modern Batman mythos with like what Scott Snyder did with uh quarter owls and like how it fits, like I'm like, oh wow, he found this one little sliver and was able to like fit this this lore, like this whole you know, got them below and how the you know, I was like, damn, that's a man's cooking. Hey, you cooked the big thing.

Christian Ward 1:28:45

Oh, too. Thank you so much. Um well, I mean, like, look, uh I you only have to look behind me to to know I'm a big Batman guy.

Badr Milligan 1:28:52

Um, I love the way you draw Talon, by the way.

Christian Ward 1:28:54

Oh, thank you.

Badr Milligan 1:28:55

I love that when he was introduced with you know Snyder and Capula's run, but um, I never really followed him after that. But the way you draw him, I I really like just how like the the whole ninja aspect, like his suit, like hoods, man. You give someone a hood, they're always cool. That's a good point. I like when he gets his arm chopped off and they're like rebuilding him. I'm like, this is badass. This is a badass dude. Oh, thanks, man. Thank you. Yeah, no, I loved it. But I think with that being said, this is a great place to wrap up. Uh, Christian, this has been uh absolutely amazing. You lived up to it, uh to the hype. I'm glad that we finally made this happen. I feel like a part two is is definitely needed. With that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast. And uh we just finished talking to Christian Ward about a little bit of everything, right? We we talked about uh his time teaching art and how important that was, uh prioritizing uh reinventing himself, you know, becoming a uh really into his own as a writer and uh things he's learned being a collaborator. We've heard some amazing heartfelt voice messages. We've talked about all of his current work going on. He's got the Forever Home on Oni Press, he's got the Patron with Ignition Press, and then obviously he's got Event Horizon Pandemonium with IDW coming out in December. He's got a lot going on this year as well as next year. I'm gonna have links to all of this in the show notes. I also highly advise you to give him a follow on social media, uh, especially if you want to see what this Batman below figure is is shaping up to be. Highly recommend that. But uh yeah, check out the show notes if you want more information. Thank you so much for listening to the Shore Box Podcast. You guys have been great. Stay tuned for the outro, and I'll catch you next week. All right, peace.